Warhammer: After 18 years, finally an end

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > The Book Barn > Warhammer: After 18 years, finally an end

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moonmazed: Dec 27, 2021; by VideoGames

# ? Jul 3, 2022 11:47

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# ? Apr 18, 2024 09:28

Improbable Lobster: Jan 6, 2012; What is the Matrix 🌐? We just don't know 😎.; Buglord

Pyrolocutus posted:

Mike Brooks has Plans.

https://twitter.com/MikeBrooks668/status/1543336373410824194?t=IYt9LYjz5jOEJXpwrD87SA&s=19

Finally, someone gets it

# ? Jul 3, 2022 11:52

Cooked Auto: Aug 4, 2007; If you will not serve in combat, you will serve on the firing line!

https://twitter.com/MikeBrooks668/status/1543583378599018496

Here's some more words from him about that.

# ? Jul 3, 2022 14:26

the panacea: May 10, 2008

I demand the grim gayest darkness!

I'd love to read some books that feature some proper post-human dialed up to 11 mechanicus stuff while at the same time not doing any of the "good old misogyny, homophobia, transphobia".

# ? Jul 3, 2022 14:47

the panacea: May 10, 2008

Cooked Auto posted:

https://twitter.com/MikeBrooks668/status/1543583378599018496

Well that was entertaining.

However, I'd like to talk quickly about why I will not ACTUALLY be "doubling the queer" in my writing for Games Workshop, regardless of how that would be maliciously complying with the professed wishes of someone I consider to be a stain on the hobby.
Basically, my inclusion of queer characters � and other marginalised groups � in my writing for Black Library is not done with the intention of angering, provoking, or aggravating anyone. It is done because I think those characters should be there, and always should have been.
The Imperium is an awful place, but it is full of people, and some people will be queer, and a lot won't be white, and some will be disabled, and they certainly won't all be cis men. In many circumstances, there is no reason why any character should belong to any one demographic.
No, the Imperium doesn't care what pronouns you use. However, that goes for "he" and "she" just as much as "they" and "ze". I'm not writing about the Administratum's population records, I'm writing about interpersonal interactions between people who know each other.
Even in war, or the nightmare Underhive, the thing that makes a story compelling is the bonds and frictions between characters. The Imperium doesn't care about their hopes, dreams, or personalities, but the characters do, and so the reader should.
With that in mind: why not have the diversity of our current human experience on display? The Imperium is a nightmare, but that Imperial Guard regiment fighting the Tyranids are still trying to protect other humans from being eaten.
Trying to survive within the hellscape that is the Imperium is not the same thing as condoning it. By putting queers in 40k, we are not saying "well the Imperium is good now because it has queers in it".
But equally, those queers characters don't have to be oppressed because of their sexuality, either by the Imperium or by other characters. The Imperium can do a great job of oppressing them because it is such an aforementioned hellscape to VIRTUALLY EVERYONE.
So, I'm not going to deliberately up the queer content, because I'm already doing this to the level I think it should be done, not just to piss people off.

HOWEVER, I also don't care if the presence of queer characters *does* piss people off.

Don't like it, don't read it.

I wish everyone producing any form of media approaching "mainstream" audiences would have that basic attitude.

the panacea fucked around with this message at 14:52 on Jul 3, 2022

# ? Jul 3, 2022 14:50

Marshal Prolapse: Jun 23, 2012; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Pyrolocutus posted:

Mike Brooks has Plans.

https://twitter.com/MikeBrooks668/status/1543336373410824194?t=IYt9LYjz5jOEJXpwrD87SA&s=19

# ? Jul 3, 2022 14:51

Azubah: Jun 5, 2007

Are the orks going to share choppas?

Can Aaaaahhhh bloom in the battlefield?

# ? Jul 3, 2022 15:32

DaysBefore: Jan 24, 2019

The Imperium can still work wonderfully as a satire of fascism and zealotry without constantly reminding fans of their real world discrimination. Really hope GW accepts that because the more stuff like that they do the more Nazi fans get turned off.

Aside from the Ork recently mentioned I can't think of a sungle character who uses 'they', but maybe that's just me over-relying on Abnett schlock etc.

# ? Jul 3, 2022 15:32

lavahatt: Nov 7, 2012

In Road to redemption a love interest/main char has they/Them as pronoun. I also have vague memories of som AdMech characters using it in another book.

# ? Jul 3, 2022 15:42

Marshal Prolapse: Jun 23, 2012; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

I�m also fine with the dual approach of Imperium is a nightmare state, but RG wants to fix this and only in death does duty end. So kind of grimbrightish. I think giving people, for lack of a better term, positive examples of people in the imperium who despise all the bad stuff isn�t a horrible idea.

Like how RG is really weirded out by Cherubs and I also think servitors.

# ? Jul 3, 2022 15:43

HerpicleOmnicron5: May 31, 2013; How did this smug dummkopf ever make general?

The Imperium should only be inwardly lovely on basis of class and species.

# ? Jul 3, 2022 16:04

Foxtrot_13: Oct 31, 2013; Ask me about my love of genocide denial!

Peak 40k would be a female soldier being court marshaled for misappropriating equipment for having issued bras because some supply clerk two decades ago ticked the wrong box.

It is perfectly in keeping with the setting for people not to give a poo poo about gender and sexuality, all that matters is loyalty, sacrifice and purity. The Imperial Guard has one gender, and that is soldier.

# ? Jul 3, 2022 19:50

FPyat: Jan 17, 2020

I don't want 40k society to be just accepting of LGBTQ people, I want it have to have cultural ideas about queerness and gender that aren't oppressive, just weird and alien in a way that reflects the deranged ideological mishmash of the Imperial Cult. Like you could have excerpts from a theological tract making the wildest arguments about why homosexual relationships glorify the human essence or something.

# ? Jul 3, 2022 23:39

Shockeh: Feb 24, 2009; Now be a dear and
fuck the fuck off.

Know what we'll have reached true diversity though? When our queer characters are exactly as fuckin' awful because they're part of the Imperium.

The Imperium stains, and that poo poo don't come out. If a mote of goodness occurs, it's either fluke, or so rare as to make no difference apart from a oily shine on the endless stream of effluent that it produces.

# ? Jul 4, 2022 01:27

Improbable Lobster: Jan 6, 2012; What is the Matrix 🌐? We just don't know 😎.; Buglord

FPyat posted:

I don't want 40k society to be just accepting of LGBTQ people, I want it have to have cultural ideas about queerness and gender that aren't oppressive, just weird and alien in a way that reflects the deranged ideological mishmash of the Imperial Cult. Like you could have excerpts from a theological tract making the wildest arguments about why homosexual relationships glorify the human essence or something.

nah dude don't be weird

# ? Jul 4, 2022 01:44

Arc Hammer: Mar 4, 2013; Got any deathsticks?

Make humans horrifically racist against anything other than the baseline human form. Ratlings, Ogryns, Felinids and Navigators are aberrations who are barely tolerated in regular society and the technocultists of the Mechanicus and non-biological limb replacements are signs of deviancy.

# ? Jul 4, 2022 02:31

Biplane: Jul 18, 2005

Be Gay, Do Heresy

# ? Jul 4, 2022 03:01

Zil: Jun 4, 2011; Satanically Summoned Citrus

Biplane posted:

Be Gay, Do Heresy

I'm trying.

# ? Jul 4, 2022 04:21

DAD LOST MY IPOD: Feb 3, 2012; Fats Dominar is on the case

it makes no sense whatsoever that the imperium would be homophobic or transphobic because 1) they derive their morals from a religion that does not have sexual taboos (because it did not evolve in a milieu with strong sexual taboos), 2) exalting the human qua human is at the core of their religion, especially through modification of the human body, 3) humanity is in such desperate straits that it can�t afford to throw away even a small percentage of soldiers, and 4) it�s much easier and more fun to direct that human prejudice outward

# ? Jul 4, 2022 05:32

lonelylikezoidberg: Dec 19, 2007

HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:

The Imperium should only be inwardly lovely on basis of class and species.

This is the correct opinion

# ? Jul 4, 2022 06:58

Gravitas Shortfall: Jul 17, 2007; Utility is seven-eighths Proximity.

Where it starts to get tricky is "abhor the mutant" because people don't need chaos taint to be born with physical deformities and it must suck to see yourself reflected in fiction as abominations even if it's cartoonish exaggerated.

# ? Jul 4, 2022 07:33

Improbable Lobster: Jan 6, 2012; What is the Matrix 🌐? We just don't know 😎.; Buglord

Biplane posted:

Be Gay, Do Heresy

# ? Jul 4, 2022 12:55

Hot Dog Day #82: Jul 5, 2003; Soiled Meat

One would think that most of the higher ups in the Mechanicum would be non binary; Identifying with a gender doesn�t seem like something that would at the top of a brain-in-a-jar�s daily routine.

# ? Jul 4, 2022 19:31

bob dobbs is dead: Oct 8, 2017; I love peeps; Nap Ghost

chop it off or cut it out and put another mechadendrite in there

# ? Jul 4, 2022 19:45

Gravitas Shortfall: Jul 17, 2007; Utility is seven-eighths Proximity.

Hot Dog Day #82 posted:

One would think that most of the higher ups in the Mechanicum would be non binary

The Mechanicum are all about binary

# ? Jul 4, 2022 19:49

Inspector_666: Oct 7, 2003; _{benny with the good hair}

Hot Dog Day #82 posted:

One would think that most of the higher ups in the Mechanicum would be non binary; Identifying with a gender doesn�t seem like something that would at the top of a brain-in-a-jar�s daily routine.

It's been a pretty constant throughline for AdMech that they don't particularly care about gender in any meaningful way.

# ? Jul 4, 2022 21:02

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

DaysBefore posted:

The Imperium can still work wonderfully as a satire of fascism and zealotry without constantly reminding fans of their real world discrimination. Really hope GW accepts that because the more stuff like that they do the more Nazi fans get turned off.

Aside from the Ork recently mentioned I can't think of a sungle character who uses 'they', but maybe that's just me over-relying on Abnett schlock etc.

Mike himself has at least one that I can think of offhand. Usually AdMech characters use it, as mentioned.

# ? Jul 5, 2022 01:05

Marshal Prolapse: Jun 23, 2012; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Hot Dog Day #82 posted:

One would think that most of the higher ups in the Mechanicum would be non binary; Identifying with a gender doesn�t seem like something that would at the top of a brain-in-a-jar�s daily routine.

Surprisingly enough I don�t think that�s the case, or at least not always the case. I know for a fact the master of mankind it�s explicitly stated that the new fabricator general is a woman.

Regarding LGBT40K I seem to recall one theory is since the best resource the Imperium has is human meat sacks, they would probably discourage it, since less human meat sacks for the Guard or Factories. No proof of that mind you, but I wouldn�t be shocked, if there is no rhyme or reason to it. I mean when you think of the Imperium at large they really can�t get anything murder kill standardized besides Xenos heretic and mutant.

Marshal Prolapse fucked around with this message at 01:10 on Jul 5, 2022

# ? Jul 5, 2022 01:06

Dapper_Swindler: Feb 14, 2012; Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

DaysBefore posted:

The Imperium can still work wonderfully as a satire of fascism and zealotry without constantly reminding fans of their real world discrimination. Really hope GW accepts that because the more stuff like that they do the more Nazi fans get turned off.

Aside from the Ork recently mentioned I can't think of a sungle character who uses 'they', but maybe that's just me over-relying on Abnett schlock etc.

i kinda viewed it as "once you have aliens and obvious mutants/abhumans, old bigotries kinda "die" and get supplated by those types of bigotries. kinda like the galactic empire doesn't give a poo poo about your sexuality or gender, your just a warm body they can put in armor or a lovely tie variete and human wave some aliens or rebels. like the bigotries are probably still there but galaxies is big and aliens exist and the empire/imperium just wants warm bodies to work or fight so who cares. plus the mechanicus for the most part are kinda only gender at some point since many are just like bits and pieces in metal.

# ? Jul 5, 2022 03:34

Dapper_Swindler: Feb 14, 2012; Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:

it makes no sense whatsoever that the imperium would be homophobic or transphobic because 1) they derive their morals from a religion that does not have sexual taboos (because it did not evolve in a milieu with strong sexual taboos), 2) exalting the human qua human is at the core of their religion, especially through modification of the human body, 3) humanity is in such desperate straits that it can�t afford to throw away even a small percentage of soldiers, and 4) it�s much easier and more fun to direct that human prejudice outward

yeah exactly. they don't, pluse space marines are basically some version of ace. also slannesh isnt even "sex/kinky bad" because i assume all the slanessh poo poo is way beyond idk poop or pegging or bdsm. its more "i can only feel pleasure when i grind 999992 left handed orphans one by one into powder that i must snort at the galactic equanox".

# ? Jul 5, 2022 03:40

Marshal Prolapse: Jun 23, 2012; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Dapper_Swindler posted:

yeah exactly. they don't, pluse space marines are basically some version of ace. also slannesh isnt even "sex/kinky bad" because i assume all the slanessh poo poo is way beyond idk poop or pegging or bdsm. its more "i can only feel pleasure when i grind 999992 left handed orphans one by one into powder that i must snort at the galactic equanox".

It�s kind of amazing that despite everything you�d expect,really cringe and creepy Slannesh poo poo has not made itself into most black library stories. Also helps they could never afford GRRM.

# ? Jul 5, 2022 04:05

bob dobbs is dead: Oct 8, 2017; I love peeps; Nap Ghost

they parted ways w ian watson and Learned Their Lesson from that

also the continuous hilarious attempts to get into k-6 education. i mean, it aint bad as an arts and crafts hobby if(f) you're rich

# ? Jul 5, 2022 04:07

bob dobbs is dead: Oct 8, 2017; I love peeps; Nap Ghost

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/05/21/21st-may-warhammer-adventures-tales-for-younger-readersgw-homepage-post-1/

"we got this, we got the demonculaba, shits weird"

# ? Jul 5, 2022 04:08

Marshal Prolapse: Jun 23, 2012; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

bob dobbs is dead posted:

they parted ways w ian watson and Learned Their Lesson from that

also the continuous hilarious attempts to get into k-6 education. i mean, it aint bad as an arts and crafts hobby if(f) you're rich

Actually considering how much my kids used dice as part of their math lessons in K-4 so far, that 40K(ids) isn�t a bad idea at all for GW.

Edit: I do love the snark in the footnotes.

quote:

*Parents understandably unsure about recommending the Horus Heresy series to their children, it being a series about 9 sons trying to tear down their father�s empire�

Marshal Prolapse fucked around with this message at 14:35 on Jul 5, 2022

# ? Jul 5, 2022 04:10

Cooked Auto: Aug 4, 2007; If you will not serve in combat, you will serve on the firing line!

bob dobbs is dead posted:

they parted ways w ian watson and Learned Their Lesson from that

Yeah I was gonna say, most 40k nerds who are all about "Slaanesh is about secks ecks dee" most likely got it from Inquisitor War trilogy where the main chaos antagonist is heavy and there's just a bunch of innuendos and mentions from what I can remember.

I will say though, Watson really knew how to describe freaky looking chaos followers to make them come off as disturbing.

# ? Jul 5, 2022 14:29

Dapper_Swindler: Feb 14, 2012; Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

bob dobbs is dead posted:

they parted ways w ian watson and Learned Their Lesson from that

also the continuous hilarious attempts to get into k-6 education. i mean, it aint bad as an arts and crafts hobby if(f) you're rich

Marshal Prolapse posted:

It�s kind of amazing that despite everything you�d expect,really cringe and creepy Slannesh poo poo has not made itself into most black library stories. Also helps they could never afford GRRM.

yeah, like it exists espcially in WH fantasy and the very old books, but i do like that slanessh headonism is basicaly just ultra out there cenobite poo poo at its most sexual because all of these freaks would have been bored with sexual assault and horrors like that after min 1.

# ? Jul 5, 2022 14:42

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

Finally finished The Infinite and the Divine last night. Saw the twist coming probably halfway through the book, and there are a few moments where things get a little jumbled in a way I'm not sure was intentional, but overall a real good story of two dicks being dicks to each other and snarking about it. Nice to see the chapter quotes namechecking Zandrekh too. Good times.

Marshal Prolapse posted:

It�s kind of amazing that despite everything you�d expect,really cringe and creepy Slannesh poo poo has not made itself into most black library stories. Also helps they could never afford GRRM.

The Wine of Dreams is a legit disturbing old Fantasy novel which is well worth checking out if you can find it.

# ? Jul 5, 2022 14:45

D-Pad: Jun 28, 2006

Arquinsiel posted:

Finally finished The Infinite and the Divine last night. Saw the twist coming probably halfway through the book, and there are a few moments where things get a little jumbled in a way I'm not sure was intentional, but overall a real good story of two dicks being dicks to each other and snarking about it. Nice to see the chapter quotes namechecking Zandrekh too. Good times.

Read Rites of Passage next if you want more 40k snark characters. I would absolutely love to see a Cheta vs Trazyn book.

# ? Jul 5, 2022 20:41

euphronius: Feb 18, 2009

God I am pumped for that new Wraight book. As excited as I am for Winds of Winter .

# ? Jul 5, 2022 23:16

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# ? Apr 18, 2024 09:28

bob dobbs is dead: Oct 8, 2017; I love peeps; Nap Ghost

black library makes deadlines

# ? Jul 5, 2022 23:18

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