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VanSandman posted:All the Primarchs are supposed to have fatal flaws. That's part of what makes them fun to read about : Fulgrim's vanity, Horus' pride, Guilliman's... OK, I have yet to figure out what Gulliman's weakness is. Maybe insistence on documenting things instead of going out and doing them? A kind of OCD? Lack of imagination. Guilliman is an excellent administrator and tactician, but is methods are heavily influenced by what's gone before. He lacks that spark of originality that would move him from "great at his job" to "a genius at his job". It's why the Emperor picked Horus instead of Roboute for Warmaster....Horus had that genius, and Guilliman didn't. You can see that failing reflected in many of the Ultramarine successor chapters where they worship the Codex Astartes word for word and will accept no tactic or methodology not contained therein. If it ain't in the book, you don't do it...and they get that from Robbie G.
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Sep 21, 2013 07:19
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Having just gotten around to reading Pariah, I've gone back and started to re-read the original Eisenhorn and Ravenor books. My memory had been that Eisenhorn was much better than Ravenor, but in reflection they're not as far apart as I'd originally thought. True, the first person narrative and epic scope of the Eisenhorn books is very appealing, but Ravenor goes the other way and shows what the antagonists are up to in a way that Eisenhorn (and the Bequin book for that matter) don't. Personally, I think I prefer the Eisenhorn methodolgy, but a case can be made for either. So what's the general opinion of the thread? Do you prefer the way the Eisenhorn books are written or the Ravenor books? Abnett himself seems to have gone with Eisenhorn since he went back to strict fist person for the Bequin books...
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Sep 23, 2013 21:35
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I played for years but around 4th edition my group got tired of having to re-buy all the books every few years, not to mention having to get new minis and the cost of said minis going through the roof. As a game it's not bad, albeit with some skewing of the idea of combat range to allow the hand-to-hand types any chance at all. But it's hard to justify the amount of cash it costs to start or stay in the game when there's so much else you can do with your money. I'd say just buy Dawn of War or Space Marine if you want to play in the 40k universe and leave the tabletop game for the idle rich.
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Sep 24, 2013 18:17
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Here ya go. 
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Sep 26, 2013 19:50
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Eisenhorn to Ravenor to Pariah is the way to go, but if you have to look elsewhere, then Ben Counter's Grey Knights is, of course, mostly about the Grey Knight protagonist but does include a very interesting Inquisitor in it and could be seen as an Inquisitor story from the Ordo Malleus point of view if you squint a little.
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Oct 7, 2013 07:09
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Oh definitely, the rest of the series goes straight down the toilet, but the Inquisitor in Grey Knights (that's the first book of the "Grey Knight" series of books) is an interesting character who is played somewhat cleverly. The bone standard perfect warrior GK who's the POV character is boring as poo poo, but I like Inquisitor Ligeia. She's the only reason to read that book, to be honest, but if you're looking for a non-Eisenhorn Inquistor story you haven't got many other choices...
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Oct 7, 2013 07:59
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Yeah that was the old Star Child/Illuminati angle from one of the Books of Chaos, right? I think they squashed that in the third or fourth edition fluff where the Inquisition massacred the Illuminati for being "corrupted by Tzeencth" or some such.
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Nov 5, 2013 21:10
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Also, have you ever been to a 40K tournament? You will never find a more wretched hive of bullshit and pettiness.
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Nov 19, 2013 07:46
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Gravitas Shortfall posted:Easiest way for Lucius to die is via Tyranid. I'm sure thousands of Hormagaunts don't take joy or satisfaction in what they do, they're just see thing -> eat thing Hormugants might, actually. Now a Ripper Swarm, on the other hand, that would be the perfect way to end him. Or a Necron, I suppose.
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Nov 29, 2013 18:25
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Gravitas Shortfall posted:'Gants are intelligent in a "clever girl" kind of way, but I doubt they're capable of feeling any emotions apart from hunger - and they're always hungry. But if eating Lucius satisfies that hunger for even a moment then the Hormugant gets turned into Lucius. That's why I think you need to go with Rippers which are completely mindless and incapable of feeling anything at all. Or a basic Necron Warrior for the same reason.
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Nov 29, 2013 19:36
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It's Chaos Warp Fuckery. Of course they'll take the slightest loophole to bring Lucius back. You think Slaanesh is going to consult the dictionary definition of "physical satiety"? No! He/She/It will say "hey, that Hormugant thought Lucius was tasty for a moment. Close enough! Have fun fighting your way outta the belly of the Hive Ship, pal!" That's why you need to kill him with something literally mindless. Rippers are your best bet from a 'Nid standpoint. Or maybe a Spore Mine or something. Better yet, some Necron Tomb Spider or some such. Or just jettison the fucker into deep space and let him float out there for all eternity. jng2058 fucked around with this message at 21:02 on Nov 29, 2013 |
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Nov 29, 2013 21:00
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UberJumper posted:Why did i just spend over an hour reading Warhammer High? Creeping madness or gradual corruption by Chaos? 
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Dec 8, 2013 08:05
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My question about the HH books is how much is skippable? Do you have to choke down the crap books to understand what happens in the good ones?
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Dec 10, 2013 02:55
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Shadowhand00 posted:Its mentioned in one of the books (I think Helsreach) that there is no remaining full copy of the Codex Astartes. Not even the Ultramarines have a copy that is 100% there. That would actually make a pretty good novel, come to think of it. Some history obsessed Space Marine (a Blood Raven, maybe?) travelling from sector to sector trying to recreate the full Codex Astartes from all the bits and pieces that each Chapter has. Naturally he (and his squad?) would end up having to fight alongside different Chapters against whatever problem that Chapter was having at the moment. It could be a nice Tour Around the Galaxy where you can compare and contrast not only the various enemies that Imperium fights against but also how the different Marine Chapters do business.
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Dec 10, 2013 23:45
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Schneider Heim posted:It's 1 AM here and I had just finished reading The Guns of Tanith. I'm going to blaze through the next two books before the end of the year, am I? And the rest before the Superbowl.
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Dec 26, 2013 19:15
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UncleSmoothie posted:This is a synopsis of Kung Fu Panda Oh god, now I'm imaging a panda in terminator armor giving that speech!
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Feb 11, 2014 00:30
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I think they make a pretty strong differential between Chaotic and Daemonic. Blowing away some cultists or even a few Chaos Marines is one thing. Going head to head with a Lord of Change is quite another. Also, the people on Armageddon during the first war had seen a Daemon Primarch which is orders of magnitude worse than even a Greater Daemon.
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Feb 13, 2014 09:28
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Hustlin Floh posted:I totally agree, but the fluff is so inconsistent that there's plenty of differing stories. As always, the answer is "stop reading into it too much" That's probably because the Imperium itself is, by its very size, vastly inconsistent as well. It really comes down to the beliefs of any given Inquisitor and, indeed, where they are in their career. The careers of Gregor Eisenhorn, and Quixos before him, shows how one's opinions can change over the course of centuries of Imperial service. So if you get some newbie prick of an Inquisitor who's all puritan-ed up and full of righteous by-the-book fire, then yeah, your world's gonna burn. If you get a more veteran and tolerant one? Maybe only the people who actually saw the daemon get quietly snuffed and the rest gets covered by a good propaganda campaign. And if you get a whacked out radical who's sure he's going to be the one who can "use Chaos to fight Chaos" then whoops, there goes the entire southern continent. Hope you didn't have relatives there. It's like when you were back in school and some kids got the easy math teacher, and some got the hard-rear end. Only, like a billion times worse and which math teacher you get decides whether you and everyone you ever met lives or dies in nuclear fire. Which is pretty much what the Imperium deserves for giving planet-killing authority to a bunch of religious fanatics and then telling them to go off and fight the most corrupting force in the galaxy!
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Feb 13, 2014 18:43
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For instance, in Malleus Eisenhorn goes around with a personal Astropath who's sending detailed space telegrams, but in Desert Warriors they only get a transmission of danger and a call for help from the target planet without any details. It seems to vary, as with much else in 40K, based on the author and needs of the story.
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Feb 24, 2014 19:29
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What's interesting to me is that they're reversing the normal state of affairs for licensed game novels. Normally, the past is a nebulous murk while the present is fleshed out to ridiculous detail. Take, for instance, the Battletech novels. For all intents and purposes the game history starts in 3025. All you get prior to that point is vague entries in some of the House books. Starting in 3025, though, the novels start covering who's where and what's happening in greater and greater detail until it's hard to find a conflict that doesn't have at least one and usually several novels and game supplements running in it simultaneously. In fact there's almost too much information. Want to be significant during the Clan Invasion? Too bad! All the important poo poo gets done by named characters at Wolcott, Luthien, and Tukayidd! Warhammer 40k, on the other hand, has gone the exact opposite route. Want to know what's happening now? Curious about how far the Hive Fleets have advanced, or where Abbadon and company have gone? gently caress you. Figure that poo poo out yourself. Want to know what happened 10,000 years ago in an era we still haven't published rules for? Why here ya go, have a 30 book or whatever long novel series!
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Feb 28, 2014 20:35
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It's a difference in philosophy. For Bettletech, and indeed, most game systems turned into novels, the books are a way to encourage you to buy more game product and vice versa. Want to know how the game universe is turning out? Buy the novel that tells you. Want to use that cool new Omnimech you just read about? Better buy the Technical Readout that has the rules for it. And so on and so forth. With 40K its like they've completely split the business. We'll write the books and sell 'em, you make your minatures and sell 'em, and if the two meet it'll be only occasionally and by almost by accident!
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Feb 28, 2014 20:44
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I always liked the one in the Gaunt's books who was so feral the Chaos guys wouldn't let him on board the ship anymore....they just towed him behind them in a force bubble.
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Apr 22, 2014 22:48
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JerryLee posted:Eh, it's canon (going by Forge World paint schemes) that a lot of marines don't give a poo poo until there's more scrape than original paint left. It seems to depend on the Chapter. Some, like the Ultrasmurfs, really make a big deal about keeping their gear shiny. Some of the others, say the Space Puppies, don't give a poo poo at all.
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Apr 24, 2014 18:04
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Iced Cocoa posted:Is the Black Library website the only place to get the Eisenhorn series? Because it feels pretty expensive to me but I'm not seeing any Eisenhorn ebooks being sold at the usual places, and the paperbacks are being sold at very high prices. You can get the Eisenhorn Ominibus on Amazon used for $27.
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May 16, 2014 14:44
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One Legged Cat posted:Well sure, but no real 40k fan would accept anything short of a shrink-wrapped, fresh-printed hardcover copy, obviously. Well "real" 40k fans can spend $93 at the same link for the new one. The fact that some people might choose to explains the success of GW's pricing plans in general, though. 
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May 17, 2014 19:11
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Yeah, I think Ravenor suffers from a lack of focus when compared to Eisenhorn, or Pariah for that matter. Switching from third person most of the time to first person for Ravenor, and especially including the POV of some of the antagonists, does give a more complete picture of events but Eisenhorn is so much more personal that Ravenor ends up feeling cold by comparison.
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May 19, 2014 20:05
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To me, Pariah felt like we were back at the beginning all over again. It's all first person reflections from Bequin's point of view, more world building than anything else. The main conflict doesn't really ramp up until the final third or so of the novel. That said, I've gotta disagree with Waroduce here. I was able to ignore my expectations and get into the novel on its own terms. I did come to appreciate Bequin's perspective and I did care what happened to her. If you can do that (and I know that not everyone can) it's a quite enjoyable book. But yeah, don't expect a huge Thorn vs Talon thing. That isn't in there, though it's set up to maybe be there in books two and three. Unless Abnett pulls a fast one, which he's been known to do...
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May 19, 2014 22:38
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Which is funny, because Rogue Trader included rules for Imperial Robots who you programmed in advance like you were playing Robo Rally 40k. Those were fun, especially when someone's programming went off the rails and the robot wandered into a volcano or something. Good times.
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May 21, 2014 00:03
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All three Eisenhorn books start with mysteries. Pariah, after a fashion, and the first Ravenor book maybe. Some of the various short stories floating around, like Abnett's stories about Magos Biologis Valentin Drusher would count. For the Emperor, one of the Cain novels has some mystery to it as well.
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May 21, 2014 07:39
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Erfsom posted:Just looked at the 7th edition lore book, and is it exactly the same as the prevision version? Is the setting stuck in 999.M41 for the foreseeable future? I'm a big dork and want to know what happens to the 13th Black Crusade. Get used to disappointment. What's sad is that GW used to care enough about that kind of poo poo to let us the players influence it. Of course, even though Disorder "won", they didn't really let Chaos win. And hell, they were supposed to kill Eldraad because Disorder won and hey, he's still in the 6E Eldar book.  So no, there will never be another 13th Black Crusade event, which was the last time the "story", such as it is, moved forward at all. They will never do Warhammer 41k and let us know what happens next. There is no next aside from new editions, new codexes, new miniatures, and new ways to take your money. The way they've done 7th Edition proves that.
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May 27, 2014 22:58
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I did 13th Black Crusade, which is why I'm still a little bitter about the lack of resolution since then. I played a lot of Gothic back then, and put all my victories, both 40k and BFG, into the Cadia sector so when they did the results and were like "Well, Cadia's hosed but the Fleet are the heroes for trapping Chaos on Cadia!" that felt really good to me because it was like my little fleet actions mattered. I was saddened that Order lost over all, but I was looking forward to seeing the next campaign and where the story went from there. Which never happened. And Eldraad stayed in the game despite getting his brain eaten by a Blackstone Fortress. And it seems like my fleet buddies did too good a job because Abaddon never left Cadia. And everything...just...stopped. Its a sad state of affairs, especially since they've got the resources to do more with the main line but they're stuck doing 30k instead.
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May 27, 2014 23:09
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UberJumper posted:That was what i thought, even all the other primarchs consider him dead. Well, I hate to break it to you, but the fluff has Vulkan leading the Salamanders until well after the Heresy before eventually vanishing into the Eye of Terror the way Russ and Corax do. So he's going to come back, John did heal him, but not in time to intervene on Terra, because historically the Salamanders weren't there.
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May 31, 2014 16:43
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What I love is the fact that they bothered to copy that scene from Scarface...on the box for a game where each Marine is too tiny to make out any kind of detail at all!
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Jun 3, 2014 06:18
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pengun101 posted:So how are the Warhammer: fantasy novels. I was at a used book store and i found a copy of the Blackhearts Omnibus, and its pretty good so far. any suggestions for more? I know a lot of people aren't fans of them but I've enjoyed the Malus Darkblade books. There isn't a single redeemable character in like six books...its all about Dark Elves, after all...but they're fun from a "how will the bastard get out of THIS one?" standpoint. The Felix & Gotrek books are well regarded, though I've only read the first couple myself. Hot Dog Day #82 posted:So I heard from you guys that the Gaunt's Ghosts series picks up after the first three books. Without spoiling much, what changes exactly? Does Abnett just becomes an older and more seasoned writer? I am about a third of the way through the first book right now and, while it is by no means terrible, it also isn't the grab-you-by-the-pants-amazing-ride that I thought it would be! The thing with the first couple of books is that they feel more like short story compilations than actual novels. It's like I'm reading Hammer's Slammers 40k or something. (I would totally read Hammer's Slammers 40k.) Necropolis, the third Gaunt book, is the first one to be a real novel. It's one long story, that of the Vervunhive campaign, and as such has a proper introduction, build up, climax, and denouement. New characters are introduced, and not everything is from a Ghost's point of view. It really works, and the series hooked me from that point on. e: clarity jng2058 fucked around with this message at 06:57 on Jun 4, 2014 |
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Jun 4, 2014 05:10
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So I'm reading The Emperor's Gift and I stumbled on this line:Aaron Demski-Bowden posted:‘We live in the Last Age of Man,’ Vasilla said softly. ‘This millennium hasn’t yet reached half its span, and it’s already the darkest ever faced by humanity. It will be the last one, Hyperion. The last, before everything finally falls black.’ Hyperion replies with the usual "Man will never die" kind of Space Marine confidence, but the funny thing is? Vasilla's right. There will never be anything written past M40.999, there's nothing in 41k besides a formless void. And of course ADB knows it as well.... Funny man, that ADB. 
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Jun 5, 2014 06:56
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Libluini posted:For a non-warhammer galactic civilization, sure. Because a sensible space civilization would have all their production spacebased, most likely including agriculture on space habitats. Think about it: If you have space superiority, it's completely irrelevant if the production on a planet sits on the surface or in orbit around it. It's toast anyway. They know it very well. The Imperium uses it all the drat time. It's called Exterminatus. The difference is that your "sensible" space civilization has decided to get into a genocide match with an empire that spans millions of planets and nigh endless numbers of ships and men. Great, you glassed ten Imperial planets. And they hunted down five of your space based production nodes in return, and invaded a couple of your planets and started wiping out (if you're a Xeno) or "converting to the Emperor's light", ie enslaving (if you happen to be a human splinter society) your civilian population. Now what? Because you've lost 25% of your nation and everything you've destroyed isn't even all the important targets in the nearest Imperial sub-sector, much less a measurable percentage of the Imperium as a whole. That's the thing. The Imperium is so vast, aggressive, and militaristic that only the strongest or most unique of opponents can withstand them. Why do the Eldar still exist? They can see the future and manipulate events to keep their craftworlds safe. And even then they often fail, losing whole craftworlds in the process, and are a dying race because of it. Why do the Dark Eldar still exist? They're hidden in the Webway where the Imperium can't get at them. Why does Chaos still exist? Same thing, just substitute "Eye of Terror" or "The Maelstrom" for "Webway". Though the ability of Chaos to take advantage of humanity's vastness by converting Imperial forces to Chaos' cause makes them one of only two factions that have a chance to bring down the Imperium in the long run. Why do the Necrons still exist? They're hidden on dead worlds that no one wants. Why do the Orks still exist? Because they breed vast numbers in short periods of times and are fungal based and as such any place that once had Orks will have them again unless the planet's been burned down to bare rock or everything's been eaten by Bugs. Why do the Tyrannids still exist? They have numbers to match those of the Imperium and are constantly on the move, devouring everything in their path and are the other faction who might "win"1. Why do the Tau still exists? The Tyrannid invasion drew away the Damocles Crusade that would have destroyed them. Even so, the Tau are facing the Bugs themselves now, and if the universe were to go on2 would likely get eaten the way the Squats were. In short, then, your "sensible space civilization" would need to have more than just an orbital bombardment and space-based production doctrine to survive. Because unless you're already so vast that we'd have heard of you (we haven't) you run into the same problem that Lee did versus Grant but like a million times worse. In the closing phases of the American Civil War, Grant was willing and able to lose two or three men for every one that Lee did simply because he outnumbered Lee four to one. Fighting the Imperium is the same way. They can trade you whole planets worth of population and resources to get at just one of your production facilities. And they will, because most Imperial Commanders care more about killing you than preserving their own resources. In the end, when they've lost two sub-sectors worth of people and resources but a Space Marine has planted a banner of victory through your last admiral's chest on the bridge of your last warship, the Imperial archives will make a note about the minor conflict with the Libluini species that were Exterminated in M40.714. And that is all that will be left of you. That's what "There is Only War" means. Sensible people and races are simply stepped on by the great powers because those powers have the ability and will to sacrifice whatever it takes to destroy you, and only those opponents who can match that can survive. 1 = This will, of course, never happen. Because it's become quite clear that the 40k universe will never actually advance beyond M40.999. Aaron Dembski-Bowden had a line about that in one of his novels, where one characterizes M40 as "the last millenium before the endless black" which is just a snarky way of commenting that GW will never do Warhammer 41,000. 2 = It won't. See 1 above. e: Footnotes e2: Forgot the Necrons jng2058 fucked around with this message at 17:46 on Jun 7, 2014 |
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Jun 7, 2014 17:25
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VanSandman posted:Orks are also by far the most numerous species in the galaxy. It's just the thing an Ork really wants to do is fight, and the closest opponent to hand is usually another Ork. True enough. gently caress, even the smart ones like Ghazghkull will intentionally let their best enemies get away just so there can be a better fight in the future. The dumb ones, which is most of them, just start beating the brains in of the nearest anything. That kind of psychology is detrimental to winning which is why I don't list the Orks as being an existential threat to the Imperium the way Chaos and the Bugs are. The former are the ultimate internal threat, the latter the external. The Orks can never get organized and stay organized long enough to actually destroy the Imperium.
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Jun 7, 2014 17:34
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AndyElusive posted:Isn't that's what the Imperium thought until Ghazghkull? But that's the thing. Even Ghazghkull doesn't want to win. Not in the "destroy your empire and annihilate your species" form of winning. What the Orks want is the next big fight. That's why the Orks don't use Exterminatus. They want enemies to bash, and will leave chunks of your empire alone just to make sure they have someone else to fight in a few years. Also, as VanSandman points out, they're vulnerable to massive in-fighting if you can manage to kill or discredit the current Warboss. Finally, even Ghazghkull is just a local threat. He's invaded Armageddon a couple of times and devastated a couple of sub-sectors but in the long run, the Imperium has sub-sectors to lose. It would take centuries if not millennium for Ghazghkull to build up enough firepower to actually sweep the galaxy and you can be sure that long before that some Imperial Assassin would get in a lucky shot or some Marine suicide squad would detonate his flagship or something. Hell, all you really need to do is let Ghazghkull know that Yarrick's waiting for him on planet Trappus VII, wait until he lands, then virus bomb the whole planet with him on it. Then the whole thing collapses into Ork on Ork violence as every drat local Warboss decides he's going to be the next in charge. Which is just how they like it.
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Jun 7, 2014 18:01
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Sure, but those places are few and far between. Yes, Armageddon is one of them...there are a lot of Armageddon Pattern vehicles and weapons that would be lost forever if Armageddon was destroyed. That's also why Ghazghkull keeps landing there. It's a planet the Imperium has to defend, and as such he can always get a good fight there. But maybe one planet in ten thousand is that crucial. You can afford to lose DipShittus IX, Weedonwantcha III, and Hopeless XII and only the local sub-sector will care much, if at all. Also recall that while a a lot of the very best gear requires specialist Forge Worlds to make, most Imperial gear doesn't. Any planet with 21st century tech, which is most of them, can make lasguns and Leman Russ Tanks in vast numbers. Same with Basilisk artillery, flak armor, and grenades. Losing a critical Forge Worlds sucks rear end, no question, but you can still end up putting hundreds of thousands of Guardsmen onto the line even if they don't have plasma or melta weaponry anymore. You'll just have to make do with missile launchers and heavy bolters, son.
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Jun 7, 2014 18:45
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That and, like the Eisenhorn and Ravenor books, it shows more of the day to day lives of Imperial citizens. That one scene where Cain, a retired Guard general, a Sister of Battle, and a dude from the Administratum are playing space poker was one of my favorite scenes simply because of the ordinariness of it.
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Jun 9, 2014 18:19
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