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VacuumJockey
Jun 6, 2011

by R. Guyovich

Neito posted:

I was actually just reading the super-sexy AD&D reprint edition, which semi-seriously suggests killing non-DM players who read or mention having read something in the DMG.
Knights of the Dinner Table didn't spring from a void. :)

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VacuumJockey
Jun 6, 2011

by R. Guyovich

ForteMaster posted:

On another topic, is anyone here familiar with Dark Dungeons and its variants? It's my Basic-loving buddy's favorite retroclone, although I know he's partial to ACKS. It certainly seems to have a lot of neat qualities to it, though I'm not sure if those qualities are unique to DD or are just Basic-based in general. (I also haven't read the Darker and Darkest versions.)
The thing about Dark Dungeons is that it's a clone of the Rules Cyclopedia, which is a slightly restated BECMI. If you want a one-book D&D, this is the one to get. (Although I personally prefer ACKS for it's more IMO holistic approach)

Come to think of it, Rules Cyclopedia/Dark Dungeons is the only one-book D&D I can think of - the other editions are usually spread over three books. This may or may not be significant.

Fenarisk
Oct 27, 2005

I'm looking for more mechanical aspects of hex crawls.

Is there a certain number of thing to add per hex? What does a starting hex map look like? Is everything already placed on a hex whether the players know it's there or not? Is there a limit to the stuff per hex and are some hexes left just barren?

VacuumJockey
Jun 6, 2011

by R. Guyovich

Fenarisk posted:

I'm looking for more mechanical aspects of hex crawls.

Is there a certain number of thing to add per hex? What does a starting hex map look like? Is everything already placed on a hex whether the players know it's there or not? Is there a limit to the stuff per hex and are some hexes left just barren?
Here you go:

Hex-based campaign design.
More hex-based campaign design.
And the best mapping tool.

bishun
Feb 16, 2010

You know the dryl.
Not a retro-clone of D&D/AD&D, but definitely in the same spirit, Dungeon Crawl Classics has been a source of fun lately.

quote:

If you are familiar with the d20 system (3.0 and 3.5):

* DCC RPG does not have prestige classes, attacks of opportunity, feats, or skill points.
* Classes and races are one and the same. You are a wizard or an elf.

If you are familiar with various iterations of AD&D:

* DCC RPG uses an ascending armor class system. A normal, unarmored peasant is AC 10, while a warrior in plate mail is AC 18.
* Attacks, saves, and skill checks all involve rolling 1d20, adding modifiers, and trying to beat a number.
* There are three saving throws: Fortitude, Reflex, and Willpower.

No matter what edition you've played before:

* Clerics turn creatures that are unholy to their religion. This may include un-dead and other creatures.
* All spells are cast with a spell check, where the caster rolls 1d20, adds certain modifiers, and tries to score high. The higher the roll the more effective the result. Each spell has a unique chart that adjudicates the spell's results.
* Wizards may or may not lose their spells after a casting. A low result means the wizard cannot cast the spell again that day. On a high result, he can cast the spell again.
* Cleric spellcasting works differently from wizard casting. Clerics never lose a spell when it's cast. However, when a cleric casts any spell and fails in his attempt, he may increase his "natural failure range." By the end of the day, a cleric may automatically fail on more rolls than just a natural 1.
* There is a critical hit matrix. Higher-level characters and martial characters generate critical hits more often and roll on more deadly result tables.
* You can burn off ability scores to enhance dice rolls. All characters can burn Luck, and wizards and elves can burn other abilities.

Winson_Paine
Oct 27, 2000

Wait, something is wrong.
I had been thinking about skills in D&D lately, and more specifically how much I hate the 3.5 and 4e skill systems and thinking that NWP were one of the things 2nd got right. I remembered 1st Ed and Secondary skills. For those not in the know, they were basically broad almost PDQ Quality like things your guy could do. If you had FISHERMAN and you needed to do something a fisherman could do then you could just sail a boat or fish or do whatever a Fisherman could do. I think they are my favorite to date since they acknowledge the game isn't really about being a blacksmith or a shitfarmer or whatever but at the same time give you the idea that maybe there is stuff outside class your dude could do.

Only registered members can see post attachments!

Red_Mage
Jul 23, 2007
I SHOULD BE FUCKING PERMABANNED BUT IN THE MEANTIME ASK ME ABOUT MY FAILED KICKSTARTER AND RUNNING OFF WITH THE MONEY

bishun posted:

Not a retro-clone of D&D/AD&D, but definitely in the same spirit, Dungeon Crawl Classics has been a source of fun lately.

If you are familiar with any other D&D alike
  • DCC features a loyalty oath
  • Casting a healing spell is a 12 step process
  • Character creation involves playing the survivor of a pool of lambs you generate and lead to the slaughter

Red_Mage fucked around with this message at 19:26 on Jul 24, 2012

Neito
Feb 18, 2009

😌Finally, an avatar the describes my love of tech❤️‍💻, my love of anime💖🎎, and why I'll never see a real girl 🙆‍♀️naked😭.

How are their modules, especially for first ed? I have the books, and I want to run more than just "Random Dungeon" and "Tomb of Horrors" with it.

whydirt
Apr 18, 2001


Gaz Posting Brigade :c00lbert:
AD&D secondary skills would be better if there wasn't a 1 in 6 chance of rolling No Skill of Measurable Worth. Some dudes can't even be actual poo poo-farmers I guess.

Winson_Paine
Oct 27, 2000

Wait, something is wrong.

whydirt posted:

AD&D secondary skills would be better if there wasn't a 1 in 6 chance of rolling No Skill of Measurable Worth. Some dudes can't even be actual poo poo-farmers I guess.

Well they became murderhobos for a REASON. We always just picked one.

Hellequin
Feb 26, 2008

You Scream! You open your TORN, ROTTED, DECOMPOSED MOUTH AND SCREAM!
I recently picked up a bunch of AD&D 1e books for really cheap at a flea sale (Monster Manual I & II, Player's Handbook, Unearthed Arcana and Deities and Demigods all for ten bucks, then I ordered an extra PH and DMG). Finding them was what I needed to rekindle my (and coincedentally my friends') love of D&D, and we've decided to run a campaign.

I've always been the group DM, and I've DM'd several campaigns of 3/3.5 that were months long, a few games of 4th and a few one-offs in other systems, but I've never DM'd a game of 1e or 2e. I really don't want to ask at rpg.net; so are there any considerations or common house rules I should be maybe looking into as a newcomer to AD&D?

So far I've only houseruled that there aren't any gender restrictions to strength. I've also considered just following Race restrictions to class, but not Race class level restrictions, but I'm unsure how that balances. That and the initiative system seems a little crazy so I might just have both sides roll a d20 or something. Any other advice would be completely awesome.

VacuumJockey
Jun 6, 2011

by R. Guyovich
Max HP at first level, that's a popular one for all editions. Keep the race/class restrictions, and don't worry too much about demihuman max levels. Elves can't be raised, remember! :)

As for initiative, any homemade kludge will be better than what's in the book. And there's Philotomy's Simple Initiative Rules, which were originally meant for OD&D but which works really well with AD&D too. (IMO that is true for most of the stuff on his site)

What you really need to houserule is how to generate stats. In AD&D you need at least a 15 to get a bonus in a given stat - and Gary himself recommends that characters have at least two such stats. There's a shitload of crappy dice-rolling schemes in the book, but I'd recommend using the ol' three best out of four d6, and some DM finagling to get a reasonable character. A modified method IV, if you will. Or give your players an array to spread around. That would work fine too. As long as you don't get into Unearthed Arcana chargen you'll be fine.

I'd also recommend you some of Kellri's references for running the actual game, although they're more useful in a sandbox context. If you're gonna blaze through the classic modules you won't need them.

Hellequin
Feb 26, 2008

You Scream! You open your TORN, ROTTED, DECOMPOSED MOUTH AND SCREAM!
Awesome thanks I'll check everything else (and holy crap that initiative system makes so much more sense).

For char gen, I think I'm gonna use my old method (when not using point buy) of: 8 sets of 4d6, drop the lowest d6 and the two lowest sets, any roll of one is an automatic reroll. If the stats really sucked I just bumped em by one or two here or there. It generally turns out okay, with most everyone getting at least one 18.

homullus
Mar 27, 2009

Hellequin posted:

I recently picked up a bunch of AD&D 1e books for really cheap at a flea sale (Monster Manual I & II, Player's Handbook, Unearthed Arcana and Deities and Demigods all for ten bucks, then I ordered an extra PH and DMG). Finding them was what I needed to rekindle my (and coincedentally my friends') love of D&D, and we've decided to run a campaign.

I've always been the group DM, and I've DM'd several campaigns of 3/3.5 that were months long, a few games of 4th and a few one-offs in other systems, but I've never DM'd a game of 1e or 2e. I really don't want to ask at rpg.net; so are there any considerations or common house rules I should be maybe looking into as a newcomer to AD&D?

So far I've only houseruled that there aren't any gender restrictions to strength. I've also considered just following Race restrictions to class, but not Race class level restrictions, but I'm unsure how that balances. That and the initiative system seems a little crazy so I might just have both sides roll a d20 or something. Any other advice would be completely awesome.

I would ignore weapon speed factors, spell components (except when they are very rare/expensive or when the spells have a material component at all and the caster is missing his or her gear), weapon vs. armor type, psionics, and initiative (that linked one is great, watch out for spells that should take more than one round to cast; I don't remember whether they exist officially, but if they do, those are "balanced" for that).

I am a fan of what the new Gamma World did: 18 in one stat and 16 in another, roll 3d6 for the rest. Allow them to distribute them after they're rolled.

Winson_Paine
Oct 27, 2000

Wait, something is wrong.
I have been running Basic/BECMI D&D for our group, they are diggin on it. House rules below:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Ypi1m7Q4HjN8UCEuaGNqX6-pp36I9JgOYs7AprCqYoE/edit

OtspIII
Sep 22, 2002

Hellequin posted:

I've always been the group DM, and I've DM'd several campaigns of 3/3.5 that were months long, a few games of 4th and a few one-offs in other systems, but I've never DM'd a game of 1e or 2e. I really don't want to ask at rpg.net; so are there any considerations or common house rules I should be maybe looking into as a newcomer to AD&D?

My (B/X) group uses Special Powers to individualize our characters a bit and it works really well.

Neito
Feb 18, 2009

😌Finally, an avatar the describes my love of tech❤️‍💻, my love of anime💖🎎, and why I'll never see a real girl 🙆‍♀️naked😭.

Would it be possible to easily just use the 3/3.5/4 Initiative? I know most monsters don't have listed DEX scores, but you could just make a chart that gives a bonus based on the hit dice the monster hits as.

VacuumJockey
Jun 6, 2011

by R. Guyovich
Can't see why not. You may want to reroll initiative every round instead of letting it ride, though. It could get rough on spellcasters.

homullus
Mar 27, 2009

VacuumJockey posted:

Can't see why not. You may want to reroll initiative every round instead of letting it ride, though. It could get rough on spellcasters.

Alternately, have the whole party roll initiative as in later D&Ds, but let them choose who acts on which initiative count each round.

Hellequin
Feb 26, 2008

You Scream! You open your TORN, ROTTED, DECOMPOSED MOUTH AND SCREAM!
Thanks everyone for the quick and informative replies, I really appreciate it. We will be sandboxing it, and I've already got a campaign idea going and the world map all drawn up. Everyone rolled up their characters the other day (one person even managed to roll a 18/00 for their fighter). I'll let you all know how the first session goes.

homullus
Mar 27, 2009

Hellequin posted:

Everyone rolled up their characters the other day (one person even managed to roll a 18/00 for their fighter).
. . . with a witness? The chance of 18/00 is really, really, really low.

Soggy Cereal
Jan 8, 2011

Finally, some attention to non-3e/4e!

Labyrinth Lord is probably the purest D&D that ever D&D'd, so it's a good game for that. It's quirky, has odd art, and emulates a cleaned-up Basic. If someone ever complains that my own games aren't "real D&D," I might switch over to Labyrinth Lord.

Dungeon Crawl Classics seems like the New Thing and it does look pretty crazy in a good way. It would be difficult to run a long, serious game with it but it looks perfect for the short gonzo sessions that most nerds are familiar with. The thing preventing me from getting it is that I don't know how much it differs from the playtest version, which had some things in it that bothered me.

Hellequin
Feb 26, 2008

You Scream! You open your TORN, ROTTED, DECOMPOSED MOUTH AND SCREAM!

homullus posted:

. . . with a witness? The chance of 18/00 is really, really, really low.


Yeah with me and one other player standing right there watching.

Red_Mage
Jul 23, 2007
I SHOULD BE FUCKING PERMABANNED BUT IN THE MEANTIME ASK ME ABOUT MY FAILED KICKSTARTER AND RUNNING OFF WITH THE MONEY
Hey I actually need this thread's help. Being as it is of dubious legality to provide straight AD&D stats for monsters, if I were converting an adventure, what retroclone would probably provide the most universal base so lots of retroclone players could use it. I am leaning toward S&W, but if anyone has a better idea, I'd love to hear it.

OtspIII
Sep 22, 2002

Red_Mage posted:

Hey I actually need this thread's help. Being as it is of dubious legality to provide straight AD&D stats for monsters, if I were converting an adventure, what retroclone would probably provide the most universal base so lots of retroclone players could use it. I am leaning toward S&W, but if anyone has a better idea, I'd love to hear it.

Is this something you're publishing/selling, and if so in what context? From most of the retroclone-style modules I've seen they generally at most provide a tiny 1/2 line statblock that lists the creature's Hit Dice, Armor Class, any attacks they can do, Morale, and maybe like movement speed and a class level it saves like and reminders of special abilities and stuff. If you just went with something along the lines of "6 Goblins (HD:1-1,AC:6,1 Club(1d6),M:7,Playing Dice)" you'd be pretty universally usable. If this is something you're going to be selling for profit you might want to look at some other published modules out there and see how they handled it, but just that level of detail should keep you from emulating any one specific product (be in D&D or a retroclone or whatever).

Red_Mage
Jul 23, 2007
I SHOULD BE FUCKING PERMABANNED BUT IN THE MEANTIME ASK ME ABOUT MY FAILED KICKSTARTER AND RUNNING OFF WITH THE MONEY

OtspIII posted:

Is this something you're publishing/selling, and if so in what context? From most of the retroclone-style modules I've seen they generally at most provide a tiny 1/2 line statblock that lists the creature's Hit Dice, Armor Class, any attacks they can do, Morale, and maybe like movement speed and a class level it saves like and reminders of special abilities and stuff. If you just went with something along the lines of "6 Goblins (HD:1-1,AC:6,1 Club(1d6),M:7,Playing Dice)" you'd be pretty universally usable. If this is something you're going to be selling for profit you might want to look at some other published modules out there and see how they handled it, but just that level of detail should keep you from emulating any one specific product (be in D&D or a retroclone or whatever).

I really just need to provide a statline for monsters as it is a thing I will be publishing. Any suggestions for a universal module with some monster variety?

OtspIII
Sep 22, 2002

Red_Mage posted:

I really just need to provide a statline for monsters as it is a thing I will be publishing. Any suggestions for a universal module with some monster variety?

I'm actually not sure, then. I know that the One Page Dungeon Contest just asks people not to give any stats at all, which isn't as cruel for a module to do with a retroclone as it normally would be since you really just need to hold 3 numbers in your head (hit dice, armor class, attack damage) per monster type (of which there's usually only one) plus any special abilities, which tend to be straightforward. If you don't want to do that I'd say your best bet would be to just get in contact with the publisher of the retroclone you want to work with, since presumably you're going to have to do that anyway, and see if they have any standard formatting they use. Hell, even if you just want to publish 'generic' you should probably talk to a publisher just for general advice--they're all very much in the 'we just want to get cool stuff out there' mindset, so I'm sure they'd be helpful even if you're not going to publish for their system.

For module examples I guess I'd just check out the free/cheaper samples out there for Swords and Wizardry, Dungeon Crawl Classics, and Laybrinth Lord. If you see two people using the same notation it's probably generic enough you can use it, and it should give you some idea of the info that people expect to have instant access to.

VacuumJockey
Jun 6, 2011

by R. Guyovich

Red_Mage posted:

Hey I actually need this thread's help. Being as it is of dubious legality to provide straight AD&D stats for monsters, if I were converting an adventure, what retroclone would probably provide the most universal base so lots of retroclone players could use it. I am leaning toward S&W, but if anyone has a better idea, I'd love to hear it.
I have no idea how (il)legal it is, but Kellri's big book of monster stats for AD&D has all the classic monster stats in abbreviated form. If that doesn't do it, maybe OSRIC?

VacuumJockey
Jun 6, 2011

by R. Guyovich

Hellequin posted:

Thanks everyone for the quick and informative replies, I really appreciate it. We will be sandboxing it, and I've already got a campaign idea going and the world map all drawn up. Everyone rolled up their characters the other day (one person even managed to roll a 18/00 for their fighter). I'll let you all know how the first session goes.
Awesome, please do. And have fun, of course. :)

NuclearPotato
Oct 27, 2011

Soggy Cereal posted:

Dungeon Crawl Classics seems like the New Thing and it does look pretty crazy in a good way. It would be difficult to run a long, serious game with it but it looks perfect for the short gonzo sessions that most nerds are familiar with. The thing preventing me from getting it is that I don't know how much it differs from the playtest version, which had some things in it that bothered me.

I'm currently running a DCCRPG campaign, and yeah, it's not easy to run a fully fledged campaign. The big problem is that DCCRPG characters are, on a whole, glass cannons; easily able to give a pounding to any monsters they're facing, but just as easily able to go down in one or two blows. On average, even with me pulling my punches a bit, my group's was losing a character per session up until recently (though that's mostly due to two of them being new to RPG's in general, and getting split up in combat.)

Evil Mastermind
Apr 28, 2008

Does anyone have any experience with Swords & Wizardry? They're kickstarting a "new release" and I wonder how it holds up as an OD&D clone.

VacuumJockey
Jun 6, 2011

by R. Guyovich
I'm mostly a BECMI and AD&D man, so I can't really tell you much about what S&W is like in play compared to OD&D. FWIW it's supposed to be 99% restated OD&D with much better organization and layout. In any case, the core rules are available for free so you can always check them out.

Evil Mastermind
Apr 28, 2008

Yeah, I went and checked out the free PDF and I wasn't impressed. It's just 1st edition when you get right down to it.

VacuumJockey
Jun 6, 2011

by R. Guyovich
I never had the opportunity to read or play the LBBs myself, so it's nice to know that S&W is the original, more or less. So thank you for that, Evil Mastermind.

It's my impression that the new release is really more of a deluxe edition with a leather cover than a "new" D&D.

Of course, it's easy to use S&W as a base for one's own D&D variation - example: Crypts & Things, which is essentially Newt Newport's swords-and-sorceryfied, houseruled and annotated S&W.

LincolnSmash
May 23, 2011

Six Glistening Black Eyes
I've said it elsewhere, but S&W is the LBBs, through a glass darkly.

Echophonic
Sep 16, 2005

ha;lp
Gun Saliva
I have been going through Darker Dungeons, the houseruled version of Dark Dungeons (basically a unified single target number system) and I had a rules question. I'm looking at how weapons offer parrying bonuses to AC, but the way the book describes them isn't all that clear. It sounds like if you're, say, sword and boarding, you only get to parry the higher number between the two sources. Like a sword giving you -2 against 1 from armed and a buckler giving you -1 against 2 from any source, you can get two bonuses a round at most, one of which can be that -2 if the attack is armed. That sound right? It's what they use as the example, but I wanted to make sure I was reading it right.

Also, for stuff like multiple attacks, when it says "can hit on a 2+" does that mean "as long as you could hit it, barring auto-misses" or "as long as you would hit if you rolled a 2"? Because those are VERY different and I don't get what's meant.

Bob Quixote
Jul 7, 2006

This post has been inspected and certified by the Dino-Sorcerer



Grimey Drawer
I noticed the link up top to a retroclone of The Fantasy Trip and thought it might be cool to mention one of the non-D&D style games in the thread.

For those who don't know about it, this game originally started out as a board game called Melee where the object was to create a warrior with a simple 2 stat spread (STR & DEX) and then have him fight to the death in a hex-grid arena against your friends warrior. Strength was your HP and determined what kind of weapon you used & Dexterity determined your accuracy with weapon attacks.

It was a simple little game, and kind of a proto-fighting game in a way, but then the company later released Wizard, which introduced the Intelligence (IQ) stat that determined the level of spell you could learn and how well you cast them. Your spells ran on your Strength/HP instead of any kind of spells-per-day or mana point system, so if you made your wizard too frail he'd cast himself to death trying to kill his opponent.

Eventually the game expanded to beyond an arena-combat game with the release of Into the Labyrinth, which introduced skills and adventuring rules. The company that made the game eventually folded, but the games designer Steve Jackson later used a lot of the framework from this game to create GURPS.

The rules for Legends of the Ancient World, which is the name of the clone in the OP are incredibly simple and fit on just a few pages and its a pretty good game for introducing friends to rpg's since it doesn't require nearly as much set up or explanation to run as even the most bare bones D&D game.

VacuumJockey
Jun 6, 2011

by R. Guyovich
Yeah, Fantasy Trip was a cool little RPG. It works pretty well with Heroscape too...

Bob Quixote
Jul 7, 2006

This post has been inspected and certified by the Dino-Sorcerer



Grimey Drawer

VacuumJockey posted:

Yeah, Fantasy Trip was a cool little RPG. It works pretty well with Heroscape too...

Huh, thats actually pretty cool. I'd imagine it would get expensive playing like that though since Heroscape is out of print.

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Toph Bei Fong
Feb 29, 2008



What's the deal with the Lamentations of the Flame Princess and Carcosa guy? I know he gets a lot of bad vibes around the forum, but I can't find out exactly why.

I read through crunchy parts of the free edition of LotFP and wasn't blown away, but it didn't seem any better or worse than most of the retroclone stuff out there. Is the fluff really bad or something?

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