Older D&D and Retroclone Thread: From OD&D To 4E

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > Older D&D and Retroclone Thread: From OD&D To 4E

homullus: Mar 27, 2009

I realize you may both know and not care, but your three images of D&D Basic aren't in chronological order -- the Erol Otus cover (3rd pictured) was the earlier revision of the original.

# ¿ Jul 10, 2012 19:11

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# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 18:14

homullus: Mar 27, 2009

Illvillainy posted:

As 3.xE was my first exposure to D&D beyond the BG series, BECMI's this intriguing cypher to me, how did it differ in tone/purpose to AD&D and how is it's legacy ignored by modern D&D?

This is D&D Basic:

Basic was meant to be a dungeon crawl game. Race and class were unified, as were alignments (there was lawful, neutral, and chaotic). Emphasis was on exploration of a dungeon or wilderness location, not a campaign world. Clearer prose, bigger font, fewer charts than AD&D.

This is how alignment matters in BE(can't speak for CMI):

# ¿ Jul 11, 2012 19:16

homullus: Mar 27, 2009

Hellequin posted:

I recently picked up a bunch of AD&D 1e books for really cheap at a flea sale (Monster Manual I & II, Player's Handbook, Unearthed Arcana and Deities and Demigods all for ten bucks, then I ordered an extra PH and DMG). Finding them was what I needed to rekindle my (and coincedentally my friends') love of D&D, and we've decided to run a campaign.

I've always been the group DM, and I've DM'd several campaigns of 3/3.5 that were months long, a few games of 4th and a few one-offs in other systems, but I've never DM'd a game of 1e or 2e. I really don't want to ask at rpg.net; so are there any considerations or common house rules I should be maybe looking into as a newcomer to AD&D?

So far I've only houseruled that there aren't any gender restrictions to strength. I've also considered just following Race restrictions to class, but not Race class level restrictions, but I'm unsure how that balances. That and the initiative system seems a little crazy so I might just have both sides roll a d20 or something. Any other advice would be completely awesome.

I would ignore weapon speed factors, spell components (except when they are very rare/expensive or when the spells have a material component at all and the caster is missing his or her gear), weapon vs. armor type, psionics, and initiative (that linked one is great, watch out for spells that should take more than one round to cast; I don't remember whether they exist officially, but if they do, those are "balanced" for that).

I am a fan of what the new Gamma World did: 18 in one stat and 16 in another, roll 3d6 for the rest. Allow them to distribute them after they're rolled.

# ¿ Jul 30, 2012 19:09

homullus: Mar 27, 2009

VacuumJockey posted:

Can't see why not. You may want to reroll initiative every round instead of letting it ride, though. It could get rough on spellcasters.

Alternately, have the whole party roll initiative as in later D&Ds, but let them choose who acts on which initiative count each round.

# ¿ Jul 30, 2012 20:07

homullus: Mar 27, 2009

Hellequin posted:

Everyone rolled up their characters the other day (one person even managed to roll a 18/00 for their fighter).

. . . with a witness? The chance of 18/00 is really, really, really low.

# ¿ Aug 1, 2012 15:03

homullus: Mar 27, 2009

Babylon Astronaut posted:

I just realized that a level 1 character would need a 2 to hit AC19 at long range with a missile weapon. So I guess that matters.

So it's really more like the AC of a bedridden old man wearing a -3 cursed shirt, and he is also the size of a barn.

# ¿ Jun 2, 2013 15:29

homullus: Mar 27, 2009

Cocks Cable posted:

Is there a reason why demi-human classes in BECMI only go up to level ~10 while the human classes go up to 36? I never understood that disparity.

I finally completed my collection of all BECMI TSR published material save for one module (Dymrak's Dread) and those dumb solo modules. It feels like the Cyclopedia came a few years too early. There's lot of new classes from the GAZ series around the same time that were left out. You're missing out on 3 separate versions of the shaman class!

Demi-humans are better than humans so capping the level is "game balance."

# ¿ Jul 9, 2013 18:19

homullus: Mar 27, 2009

PeterWeller posted:

Because it loving owns.

Pauser's Gate (as a franchise) is Hall of Fame good (and, like Bard's Tale-influential). Without it, probably no Planescape:Torment.

# ¿ Oct 23, 2013 20:55

homullus: Mar 27, 2009

Evil Sagan posted:

I gotta gush and this seems like the likely place.

So I was just at the local gaming store to play some Ghostbusters RPG for Halloween. During a break, I was going through their used stuff and found the 3rd Edition Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting and the Monsters of Faerun monster supplement. This isn't the exciting part.

Buying the books caused the owner to remark "oh you like old D&D stuff." He then took me in the back and mentioned something about a 1981 TSR game catalogue. Not exactly a big deal in my mind, but I figured it would be a fun relic to take. What I didn't expect was that this was on top of... well, these.

Not exactly a comprehensive collection, and the quality is spotty in some of them, but almost all the modules are titles I've had an eye on. I'm also particularly excited about grabbing one of the original Deities & Demigods prints.

So, which module should I run first?

EDIT: And sorry about the quality. I'm using a camera phone and I don't know poo poo about photography so I didn't really try hard. I figured anyone who would remotely give a poo poo will comprehend what they're seeing.

You probably know this, but the Deities and Demigods with Cthulu in it is rare and worth more, so take good care of it! Only the first print run had it, because they were threatened with legal action by the Lovecraft license holder.

Against the Giants is one of my favorites from back in the day (the other being Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth).

# ¿ Nov 3, 2013 06:46

homullus: Mar 27, 2009

PeterWeller posted:

E: Rulebook Heavily is right. No reason to get personal.

I want to add that Vornheim is a really great "little" supplement and I would buy a lot more things like that if there were a lot more of them to buy.

# ¿ Nov 7, 2013 19:04

homullus: Mar 27, 2009

BrainParasite posted:

Is Vornheim worth reading even if you're not a fan of Zak's posting style?

They may as well not be the same person.

# ¿ Nov 7, 2013 19:59

homullus: Mar 27, 2009

OtspIII posted:

I don't suggest ever just showing them a map, but you should experiment with different levels of abstracting traveling to places they've already been--getting lost as you try to escape the dungeon can be really fun, it can be campaign-quittingly frustrating.

The exception is of course giving them an incomplete map, to which they can add details.

# ¿ Jan 26, 2014 16:30

homullus: Mar 27, 2009

VacuumJockey posted:

It is considered a classic - check out what Jamie Mal had to say about it: http://grognardia.blogspot.com/2008/12/retrospective-caverns-of-thracia.html

I like it a lot too, but it's the kind of module that needs to be read very carefully before you run it. Wouldn't hurt to take notes too. :0

Mike Mearls, of all people, on that page posted:

You're on to something about the lack of exploration in modern adventure design. I've seen several comments to that effect regarding the current crop of 4e adventures, and it's a trend I'd like to reversed.

I guess they did do the Undermountain thing at the very end.

# ¿ Apr 25, 2014 14:19

homullus: Mar 27, 2009

aldantefax posted:

Was Vornheim actually worth reading? The author aside I've heard the actual ideas in it for a citycrawl seem to be fairly well thought out (but I cannot vet any of the sources that go one way or the other on it with a critical review). The other stuff in both OSR bundles seem neat though.

I like everything about Vornhiem as a product and wish there were more like it.

# ¿ Nov 11, 2015 23:03

homullus: Mar 27, 2009

I had a dream where your AC dilemma was solved by having it equal the number of rounds until that monster gets off a special attack. Then I woke up, thought about it, and realized it doesn't map well for all B/X monsters and obviously doesn't do anything helpful when there's a negative AC.

# ¿ Dec 4, 2015 21:18

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# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 18:14

homullus: Mar 27, 2009

Payndz posted:

Compared to the monsters. The test characters were only the equivalent of B/X level 2, but the warrior absolutely annihilated everything, to the point where I put him 10-1 against orcs and he still came out with half his HP intact.

New idea is to power special attacks with Hero Points, so players can't just go "I special attack" every round and get double damage. They stack, so if a warrior fancied combining max damage, double damage, cleaving and a two-dice boost to a d20 damage die (or whatever) he can, but that'll be everything gone in one go, and he only regains one per successful encounter.

Spells, miracles, backstabs, etc will also be powered by Hero Points. Hmm, maybe they should be called something else to avoid confusion with Hit Points?

Also, you could have special attacks be powered by the results on the monster attack rolls (which the players could roll, if it's important to give the players dice). Fighters could power up by filling in certain patterns, rogues get a vital strike in on attacks that miss by a certain number, clerics could do specials when their holy number or numbers come up.

# ¿ Dec 4, 2015 21:20

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