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LifeSunDeath
Jan 4, 2007

Wish I had money to replace my AV, that was ripped from me during a mayo challenge, with this. Lol fuck spending more money on this site tho.



I asked RetroManCave guy on youtube to do a Teletext episode and he said he would attempt to.

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3D Megadoodoo
Nov 25, 2010

BENIS


LifeSunDeath posted:

I asked RetroManCave guy on youtube to do a Teletext episode and he said he would attempt to.

Oh great maybe as him if he'll bring in the only living expert on the history and technology of Teletext and then proceed to talk over the guy for thirty minutes?

e: I get that you have to love your own voice at least somewhat but man do some Youtubists make me mad when they have guests on just for scenery. RetroManCave, Metal Jesus, and Fran Blanche (who luckily almost never has a guest on) are the worst offenders I've come across. Oh and that one time Ashens and Barfman or whatever (the cook who must be the most rubbish cook in the world as he can't bear to taste the simplest of foods) had a woman on a tasting video and they would literally drown anything she was saying with their Good Mythical Morning*-level "banter.

*) The worst banter in the world after Irish Leather Jacket Jesus.

3D Megadoodoo has a new favorite as of 17:20 on May 7, 2020

3D Megadoodoo
Nov 25, 2010

BENIS


This has been an episode of 3D Megadoodoo hates Youtubers, thanks for tuning in.

LifeSunDeath
Jan 4, 2007

Wish I had money to replace my AV, that was ripped from me during a mayo challenge, with this. Lol fuck spending more money on this site tho.



3D Megadoodoo posted:

Oh great maybe as him if he'll bring in the only living expert on the history and technology of Teletext and then proceed to talk over the guy for thirty minutes?

e: I get that you have to love your own voice at least somewhat but man do some Youtubists make me mad when they have guests on just for scenery. RetroManCave, Metal Jesus, and Fran Blanche (who luckily almost never has a guest on) are the worst offenders I've come across. Oh and that one time Ashens and Barfman or whatever (the cook who must be the most rubbish cook in the world as he can't bear to taste the simplest of foods) had a woman on a tasting video and they would literally drown anything she was saying with their Good Mythical Morning*-level "banter.

*) The worst banter in the world after Irish Leather Jacket Jesus.

Yeah it's funny, i'm subbed to his channel but not super into his vids, I just saw all this teletext talk on here and was bored this morning and watched a video from him, and was the first viewer somehow, so I thought what the hell I'll ask him to cover teletext (as I had never heard of it until this thread mentioning it). Anyway, youtube is trash but sometimes it's really good trash.

Cojawfee
May 31, 2006
I think the US is dumb for not using Celsius

I want to see the Technology Connections guy cover it.

Last Chance
Dec 31, 2004



Cojawfee posted:

I want to see the Technology Connections guy cover it.

i love this dude

e: i got my youtubers confused. i thought he was the anemic british guy, but technology connections guy is good too

KozmoNaut
Apr 23, 2008

Happiness is a warm
Turbo Plasma Rifle


Grimey Drawer

3D Megadoodoo posted:

*) The worst banter in the world after Irish Leather Jacket Jesus.

Hey now, Leather Jacket Guy and Irish Jesus are not the same person.

Humphreys
Jan 26, 2013

We conceived a way to use my mother as a porn mule


3D Megadoodoo posted:

This has been an episode of 3D Megadoodoo hates Youtubers, thanks for tuning in.

Really shits me with the canned intros on some of them are cut and paste. 'Hey guys' and at the end 'remember hit that bell!' And holy poo poo NordVPN, RidgeWallet, and Squarespace can gently caress right off.

Aix
Jul 6, 2006
$10

whooa, i used to check on the sky one simpsons teletext fanpage all the time. back in the late 90s the bbc held the rights to seasons 2 through 5 - sky could only show the lovely episodes so they always had to apologize on teletext

yeah i know theres some season 3 eps in this capture though

3D Megadoodoo
Nov 25, 2010

BENIS


Aix posted:

whooa, i used to check on the sky one simpsons teletext fanpage all the time. back in the late 90s the bbc held the rights to seasons 2 through 5 - sky could only show the lovely episodes so they always had to apologize on teletext

yeah i know theres some season 3 eps in this capture though

Why is your Teletext speaking to me like the UFO guy from Vol 714 pour Sydney?

Killingyouguy!
Sep 8, 2014



Yeah all these teletext screenshot seem to have character display issues that are weirdly consistent within each. Did every model of TV have a subtly different character set or something?

3D Megadoodoo
Nov 25, 2010

BENIS


Killingyouguy! posted:

Yeah all these teletext screenshot seem to have character display issues that are weirdly consistent within each. Did every model of TV have a subtly different character set or something?

Reminds me of some BSD-on-a-diskette operating system I tried out like 10-15 years ago which worked bloody fine except the (I think) F and P or maybe V and P keys were swapped around

Moo the cow
Apr 30, 2020



Humphreys posted:

Really shits me with the canned intros on some of them are cut and paste. 'Hey guys' and at the end 'remember hit that bell!' And holy poo poo NordVPN, RidgeWallet, and Squarespace can gently caress right off.

https://sponsor.ajay.app/

Trust me, you'll love this browser extension.

Aix
Jul 6, 2006
$10

Killingyouguy! posted:

Yeah all these teletext screenshot seem to have character display issues that are weirdly consistent within each. Did every model of TV have a subtly different character set or something?

they were recovered from vhs, which captures at a lower "resolution" than what was broadcast, so the signal can get screwy. some vcrs even straight up got rid of the teletext signal during playback and/or recording to hide the mess. i always thought this was the norm until i brought a tape to a friends house and his tvs clock leaped forwards a few hours - it got its time from teletext

Aix has a new favorite as of 12:29 on May 8, 2020

barbecue at the folks
Jul 20, 2007



Wait, VCRs also recorded teletext? Holy poo poo, I never realized!

legooolas
Jul 30, 2004


barbecue at the folks posted:

Wait, VCRs also recorded teletext? Holy poo poo, I never realized!

Mostly badly, with SVHS recordings doing a much better job. The recent improvements which have made more recovery possible are to do with trying to work out the most likely character at each position (and there are some checksums in the data too, I believe). This optionally uses GPU compute power to speed things up a lot - it's a surprisingly large amount of effort to decide the signals and then work out the most likely page contents!

I have a bunch of tapes I've recovered Teletext from in this way, and it's still very hit and miss depending on the recording quality and length, but far better than just sticking a tape in a VCR and trying to view the Teletext on a telly. I should submit these to the archive!

Only cost me about £8 to get a suitable TV capture card and the rest is pretty straightforward


The e/j thing in the output I'm guessing it's because the encoding of those characters is similar enough that they are easily confused during the processing of the noisy signal. You can do manual tidying afterwards if you're feeling like you have the time...

Hirayuki
Mar 28, 2010


College Slice

This is all fascinating to an American who never saw Teletext until a brief sighting on her Vienna honeymoon (and by 2001, it was porn all the way down--or maybe I was just "lucky"). Please keep up the Teletext chat!

Humphreys
Jan 26, 2013

We conceived a way to use my mother as a porn mule


Moo the cow posted:

https://sponsor.ajay.app/

Trust me, you'll love this browser extension.

Thank you very much!

stevewm
May 10, 2005


barbecue at the folks posted:

Wait, VCRs also recorded teletext? Holy poo poo, I never realized!

Nearly all teletext systems (along with closed captions) worked by stuffing digital data into the vertical blanking interval of the television signal. The VBI is a invisible bit of the TV signal that is used by the decoding circuitry as a flag to reset the electron beam back to the top of the tube. Since this part of the signal does not contain any image it was figured out that data could be stuffed into it without any ill effects. TVs that didn't support decoding the teletext or captions would just ignore it.

Since VCRs record the raw television signal to tape, the vertical blanking interval is also recorded, thus preserving the teletext data.

This video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SL6zs2bDks explains closed captioning pretty well. But the same concept applies to teletext.

Cojawfee
May 31, 2006
I think the US is dumb for not using Celsius

Yeah I've never seen teletext in my entire life

Shibawanko
Feb 13, 2013

someday he would have an anchor tattooed on his chest

Teletext is how i got my daily news up to the mid 2000s, it was pretty convenient and usually had good summaries

Aix
Jul 6, 2006
$10

Shibawanko posted:

Teletext is how i got my daily news up to the mid 2000s, it was pretty convenient and usually had good summaries
also flight arrivals. every time my parents had to pick up someone from the airport, theyd leave the teletext page for local arrivals open to check for delays. i mean, we had a modem and internet, but youd use that like for half an hour a day cause you still paid per minute. teletext you could just leave on and check from time to time

starting in the 00s they also had live chatrooms on teletext, i think theyre still going, mostly sex/dating stuff, where youd send a text from your cellphone to get your message broadcast. theyd know your nickname via a one time registration text uphand which cost more obv, like a couple pounds

Daktar
Aug 19, 2008

I done turned 'er head into a slug an' now she's a-stucked!


More Turner:








quote:


Pastry of the Year
Apr 12, 2013



give me teletext and NAPLPS until I die

Der Kyhe
Jun 25, 2008

Think something witty and pretend it's written here.



Shibawanko posted:

Teletext is how i got my daily news up to the mid 2000s, it was pretty convenient and usually had good summaries

I still sometimes use teletext to browse morning headlines while I drink my wake-up cup, if I forgot my phone to bedroom and the morning show is doing some cutesy folk news bit instead of the actual news, or is interviewing some wanker.

spookygonk
Apr 3, 2005
Does not give a damn


Shibawanko posted:

Teletext is how i got my daily news up to the mid 2000s, it was pretty convenient and usually had good summaries

Same here, was my morning ritual. Cup of tea and a bowl of cereal as the pages slowly turned.

Imagined
Feb 2, 2007


The worst thing about YouTube for me is all the minor little things you Google - how to fix some Windows setting, how to find something in a videogame, etc - that used to be a paragraph on a website or forum post are now a pointlessly 8 minute YouTube video complete with intro animation, introduction, theme song, etc. At least often some kind soul in the comments will post "answer is at 4:12".

Warbird
May 23, 2012

Burn the 'dawgs
Kill the Yellowjackets
Purge the Tiger
It is better to die for Bama than to live for yourself


Fun Shoe

As of late google will just surface the video clipped to the exact time what youíre looking for shows up. If doesnít always work but clearly someone over there is also annoyed by it.

I donít know what the hell teletext is but Iím having a fun time working it out via context clues. Post more worms.

Der Kyhe
Jun 25, 2008

Think something witty and pretend it's written here.



Imagined posted:

The worst thing about YouTube for me is all the minor little things you Google - how to fix some Windows setting, how to find something in a videogame, etc - that used to be a paragraph on a website or forum post are now a pointlessly 8 minute YouTube video complete with intro animation, introduction, theme song, etc. At least often some kind soul in the comments will post "answer is at 4:12".

...bbbubbut that will take the food out from social media influencer's mouth! How else would I know about Jerrystoolstuff.com about affordable secondhand tools and poo poo, or get a shoutout to the great sponsor like Grease, now also as a vegetable, when I need to know, how I have lived without this Spishshack roofing burner, or how to reset the freaking tyre pressure warning in my - get your rear end hat, a hat for YOUR rear end- Skoda?

Der Kyhe has a new favorite as of 18:03 on May 8, 2020

Konstantin
Jun 20, 2005
And the Lord said, "Look, they are one people, and they have all one language; and this is only the beginning of what they will do; nothing that they propose to do will now be impossible for them.

Apparently YouTube pays more for videos that are over 10 minutes, so a lot of creators pad their videos to hit that number.

stevewm
May 10, 2005


Warbird posted:



I donít know what the hell teletext is but Iím having a fun time working it out via context clues. Post more worms.

Its a system in which digital text and sometimes rudimentary images are broadcast in "unused" parts of a TV channel signal. TVs with compatible decoders can show this information. In some systems it is partially interactive. (you can choose which pages to display). Closed captions are an example of a use of this technology.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teletext
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_System_Teletext
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ceefax


This video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reLzKwfQzfU shows a short history of probably one of the more widely used systems, CeeFax, in the UK.

There where some teletext services in the US, but they never saw really wide adoption.

Sweevo
Nov 8, 2007




Imagined posted:

The worst thing about YouTube for me is all the minor little things you Google - how to fix some Windows setting, how to find something in a videogame, etc - that used to be a paragraph on a website or forum post are now a pointlessly 8 minute YouTube video complete with intro animation, introduction, theme song, etc. At least often some kind soul in the comments will post "answer is at 4:12".

Still better than the one that are videos of someone typing onto Notepad because they don't want to speak on camera.

Pham Nuwen
Oct 30, 2010



Sweevo posted:

Still better than the one that are videos of someone typing onto Notepad because they don't want to speak on camera.

Ultimate version would be typing into a blog post submission form, then closing the tab at the end of the video.

Sweevo
Nov 8, 2007




WATTSUPGUYSTHISISMORONMCSHOUTYHERETOBELLOWATYOUFORTWELVEMINUTESWITHOUTPAUSINGFORBREATH
WHILEIDIEREPEATEDLYINAGAMEISUCKATBUTFORSOMEREASONMYVIDEOISALWAYSATTHETOPOFTHESEARCHRESULTS

Gromit
Aug 15, 2000

I am an oppressed White Male, Asian women wont serve me! Save me Campbell Newman!!!!!!!


Sweevo posted:

Multiple passes haven't been necessary ever. The whole theory it's based on was debunked several years ago, and even the guy who came up with the idea admitted he was wrong.

As a vaguely relevant story, last year I was at a computer security conference waiting in line to get a lockpick business card from Kevin Mitnick. I had a backpack from the 2008 Auscert conference and this weird long-haired hippy-looking dude came up to me and said "hey, I've got that same bag dude - good to see someone from that thing here", and it was Peter Gutmann. I mentioned to him that I knew his work, being a digital forensics analyst, and he turned a bit sheepish and said it was along time ago and taken out of context by a ton of people. Seemed like a nice guy, but it's not like we hung out or anything.


mostlygray posted:

I used to work with someone that did forensic data recovery for the FBI in the '90s. She was able to extract data from a fully formatted drive written zeros. It wasn't perfect data, but she could get enough off the drive to find some. At least enough to be evidence. Of course, that was over 20 years ago. Based on her advice, when we did refurbs, we used to do a full "Government Wipe" Zeros, then ones, then random. Then do a disk-to-disk copy over the top to restore the partition table with the restore partition and the OS and software pre-load. She did say that would likely make data unrecoverable, but still possible to find a few strings that might be enough for evidence if you had a ton of money and time.

It took forever.

I'd love to have seen the evidence. Back in the early 2000s when I was with law enforcement my team did some data recovery for a murder and gave the officers what we could, which was very little. They suggested we send it to the FBI to work on as they thought they would be better at it than us. We sighed and told them to go for it. After they spent the bucks and time to go through the process, the FBI got back nothing more than we could. If the data was overwritten, it was gone.

I spoke to someone years ago (Paul Sanderson from Sanderson Forensics? I don't really remember) who said they had recovered overwritten data with something like a spin stand tester way back in the day to 100%, but I never saw any actual evidence of it. Any digital forensics professional would be surprised at that result from the mid to late 90s onwards, and I've not seen any hard evidence for it ever being done no matter what the year to any usable degree.

I think Professor Gomez at the University of Maryland did some deep analysis work with spin stand testers and electron microscopy and managed data recovery at a rate measured in bytes per hour with a bit-state reliability of around 50% (so almost a guess) on low-density storage from the 90s, but I'm going on some vague memory there. Been a while since I really kept up with it, but back in the day overwritten data recovery was one of my fields of interest. I remember calling a data recovery firm out for advertising they could do it and they admitted that they just wrote that to get punters to use their services.

Humphreys
Jan 26, 2013

We conceived a way to use my mother as a porn mule


Gromit posted:


Data Recovery Stuff


Interesting stuff. And here I am dumping some raw NANDs from USB sticks and later doing a platter swap.

Computer viking
May 30, 2011
Now with less breakage.

I just found out that not only does NRK still do Teletext ("tekst-tv"), but the web portal is still where I last used it some fifteen years ago. Huh.

https://www.nrk.no/tekst-tv/100/ , for everyone that can read Norwegian.

Also, last time we needed to retire a few disks that had held patient data at work I laid it on the floor and whacked it with a hammer until it sounded like the platters had broken. Mostly for the looks, honestly - but I'm sure it worked.

Ruflux
Jun 16, 2012


Der Kyhe posted:

...bbbubbut that will take the food out from social media influencer's mouth! How else would I know about Jerrystoolstuff.com about affordable secondhand tools and poo poo, or get a shoutout to the great sponsor like Grease, now also as a vegetable, when I need to know, how I have lived without this Spishshack roofing burner, or how to reset the freaking tyre pressure warning in my - get your rear end hat, a hat for YOUR rear end- Skoda?

Isn't the answer to that particular question "pull the relevant fuse" though

LifeSunDeath
Jan 4, 2007

Wish I had money to replace my AV, that was ripped from me during a mayo challenge, with this. Lol fuck spending more money on this site tho.



Are there teletext numbers-stations?

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3D Megadoodoo
Nov 25, 2010

BENIS


LifeSunDeath posted:

Are there teletext numbers-stations?

Not related to your question but just remembered when a "editor-in-chief of a local paper" (of which there are like three so I guess that's as close to identifying someone without identifying them in the news) was convicted of making a child porn video and he and some other guys recruited the kid via Teksti-TV classifieds

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