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Buttcoin purse
Apr 24, 2014



Humphreys posted:

Thats goons! I should have mentioned I do require USB support so adds a layer of finickiness

Just like graphics, audio and networking, USB wasn't something DOS itself supported, either your application supported your specific device itself or you needed a driver, and the drivers weren't standardized. Does your application actually require USB, or is it just that for example it uses a serial port and you want to use a USB serial adapter with it? I'm pretty sure that those are very different situations in terms of how you'd deal with them in terms of emulation.

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Humphreys
Jan 26, 2013

We conceived a way to use my mother as a porn mule







Buttcoin purse posted:

Just like graphics, audio and networking, USB wasn't something DOS itself supported, either your application supported your specific device itself or you needed a driver, and the drivers weren't standardized. Does your application actually require USB, or is it just that for example it uses a serial port and you want to use a USB serial adapter with it? I'm pretty sure that those are very different situations in terms of how you'd deal with them in terms of emulation.

Well I need Parallel and my PCMCI one shat the bed so only USB one available. In the time since my last post I've tried natively installing Win98SE on my old CF-74 Toughbook but not having any luck getting it to get to desktop

Rexxed
May 1, 2010

Dis is amazing!
I gotta try dis!



Humphreys posted:

Well I need Parallel and my PCMCI one shat the bed so only USB one available. In the time since my last post I've tried natively installing Win98SE on my old CF-74 Toughbook but not having any luck getting it to get to desktop

I haven't run it but this guy supplied an image for vmware player last year and instructions on getting it all set up. I still have a few PCs that have 98SE installed although it's been a few years since I booted them up.
https://dans-things.com/index.php/2...-vmware-player/

Buttcoin purse
Apr 24, 2014



Humphreys posted:

Well I need Parallel and my PCMCI one shat the bed so only USB one available.

Ahh, well it probably shouldn't matter that it's USB. Here's the way things generally work with emulators/hypervisors: they emulate some hardware, which is often reasonably generic, and then allow you to configure how that hardware should behave, often letting you pass through to real hardware. In terms of parallel ports, just about any emulator that actually supports parallel ports is going to emulate the old fashioned type (and quite possibly there's nothing that will emulate a USB one). Then at the level of the host - your real machine - the emulator/hypervisor might let you map that emulated port to a physical one and it probably won't care if it's a USB port, on the motherboard, or whatever.

quote:

In the time since my last post I've tried natively installing Win98SE on my old CF-74 Toughbook but not having any luck getting it to get to desktop

From a quick look online I think that machine probably has too much RAM for Win98SE, which will apparently choke if you have more than 1GB, and possibly not let you start DOS applications if you have more than 512MB.

Rexxed posted:

I haven't run it but this guy supplied an image for vmware player last year and instructions on getting it all set up. I still have a few PCs that have 98SE installed although it's been a few years since I booted them up.
https://dans-things.com/index.php/2...-vmware-player/

VMware Player definitely lets you map an emulated parallel port to a physical parallel port on the host (although I haven't tried it) and would most likely let you do that for a USB parallel port.

From a quick look online, VirtualBox apparently has parallel port support, but it's not exposed in the GUI - you need to use a command-line tool to configure it - because I guess they don't care about it very much!

Humphreys
Jan 26, 2013

We conceived a way to use my mother as a porn mule







Thanks heaps for the help guys!

All was going well with the installation of VM but errored out same as with other attempts with different images guides







Problem seems to be confirmed as with Ryzen:

https://communities.vmware.com/t5/V...ht/true#M136404

Looks like I need to get my hands on an old real machine!

EDIT: Trying v9 as per that thread to see how it goes.

Humphreys has a new favorite as of 12:00 on Nov 22, 2020

Buttcoin purse
Apr 24, 2014



Humphreys posted:

Problem seems to be confirmed as with Ryzen:

https://communities.vmware.com/t5/V...ht/true#M136404

Looks like I need to get my hands on an old real machine!

Oh so it is a Ryzen thing, sorry! Did you try any workarounds? It sounded like this one should work:

cpuid.1.edx = -:-:-:-:-:-:-:0-

I assume that goes in the .vmx file. Its obviously got unicode quotes instead of the ASCII ones you actually need to put in the file but I assume some other site should have it in the correct format.

Also I assume the 1 might refer to the first CPU and that might be ineffective if your VM has more than one CPU socket or core but hopefully you're not trying that with Win9x.

If all else fails, use an emulator instead of a hypervisor. The latter give better performance by letting the guest use the host CPU whereas an emulator emulates the CPU too, so it's slower but your host CPU quirks are hidden. One example is Bochs which apparently supports using a physical parallel port. It's nowhere near as friendly to configure but I can help if you need it. You can just install DOS in there but Win98SE works.

Humphreys
Jan 26, 2013

We conceived a way to use my mother as a porn mule







Buttcoin purse posted:

Oh so it is a Ryzen thing, sorry! Did you try any workarounds? It sounded like this one should work:

cpuid.1.edx = -:-:-:-:-:-:-:0-

I assume that goes in the .vmx file. Its obviously got unicode quotes instead of the ASCII ones you actually need to put in the file but I assume some other site should have it in the correct format.

Also I assume the 1 might refer to the first CPU and that might be ineffective if your VM has more than one CPU socket or core but hopefully you're not trying that with Win9x.

If all else fails, use an emulator instead of a hypervisor. The latter give better performance by letting the guest use the host CPU whereas an emulator emulates the CPU too, so it's slower but your host CPU quirks are hidden. One example is Bochs which apparently supports using a physical parallel port. It's nowhere near as friendly to configure but I can help if you need it. You can just install DOS in there but Win98SE works.

Got it to work mate. As simple as Version 9.



Now russling with getting the USB to Parallel to work. It's showing in win10 as Printer not an actual LPT. I'm close but major hurdle overcome!

Ordered one of these to try (only $20)

Humphreys has a new favorite as of 13:40 on Nov 22, 2020

Hirayuki
Mar 28, 2010




Hirayuki posted:

I finally got a photo of the card, and it turns out to be a SmartMedia card. Thankfully, I still (inexplicably) have an old SmartMedia reader that's escaped several rounds of e-cycling. Fingers crossed that A. it plays nice with Win10 and B. his photos haven't rotted off the card. They stopped making those in '06.
Win10 sees the reader and claims it's "ready to go," but neither light turns on and nothing happens when I insert a card. Win7 doesn't notice it at all. My husband's recent work Mac recognizes the reader to the extent that a green light turns on on the thing, but it doesn't show up as a drive anywhere.

Maybe I can dig up my old netbook--speaking of obsolete...

Buttcoin purse
Apr 24, 2014



Humphreys posted:

Now russling with getting the USB to Parallel to work. It's showing in win10 as Printer not an actual LPT.

Bummer! I'd heard that USB to Parallel adapters might actually be only for printers (although I'd also heard the opposite so wasn't sure what to believe). I wouldn't be surprised if this is because the USB standard covers printers but not parallel ports (just like it doesn't cover serial ports) so that for the use case 99% of people want, if the adapter just presents a printer rather than a parallel port the user won't need a special driver.

Johnny Aztec
Jan 29, 2005
Probation
Can't post for 23 days!


Some of you may remember me talking about the McConnell-Douglas miscarriage of a product "Laserfilm", before.


Techmoan actually declined on it, being that there was absolutely NO media , whatsoever, to use on it. The laserfilm players were repurposed by McConell-Douglas as flight sim machines, but being as that company is a Defense Contractor, none of the media I could locate.


HOWEVER, I did stumble across a guy that actually worked on the creation of the systems. I am going to be meeting with him tomorrow to hand over the NIB Laserfilm player I have. he has no media for it, it's more of a large momento, than anything.

3D Megadoodoo
Nov 25, 2010

BENIS


Johnny Aztec posted:

large momento

Is this like "big mood"?

BattleMaster
Aug 14, 2000


Avast!

Buttcoin purse posted:

Bummer! I'd heard that USB to Parallel adapters might actually be only for printers (although I'd also heard the opposite so wasn't sure what to believe). I wouldn't be surprised if this is because the USB standard covers printers but not parallel ports (just like it doesn't cover serial ports) so that for the use case 99% of people want, if the adapter just presents a printer rather than a parallel port the user won't need a special driver.

Yeah I purchased one and it enumerated as a USB printer. I did some research and the consensus was that this was standard for the reason you figured - that there's no standard USB parallel port protocol and most people who want a parallel port just want to get some life out of an old printer.

Though there actually is a USB serial port standard, USB CDC (communications device class) that can work 1:1 with card or motherboard serial ports with all features and programs not knowing the difference. If you plug in a USB to serial converter, it will show up in Windows as a COM port or in Linux as a TTY device and will work perfectly with software designed to talk to those.

Regarding those PCI and PCIe parallel port cards, I've heard that certain chips give different levels of control over the port. They all show up as a parallel port in the OS and will work for very standard uses like printers, but may not necessarily work for non-standard use cases. This came up while researching parallel port cards for CNC machine control - some cards let you remap signals to whatever you want in software while others don't let you use them for anything other than the standard signals.

Humphreys
Jan 26, 2013

We conceived a way to use my mother as a porn mule







BattleMaster posted:

Regarding those PCI and PCIe parallel port cards, I've heard that certain chips give different levels of control over the port. They all show up as a parallel port in the OS and will work for very standard uses like printers, but may not necessarily work for non-standard use cases. This came up while researching parallel port cards for CNC machine control - some cards let you remap signals to whatever you want in software while others don't let you use them for anything other than the standard signals.

Good to know! well I'll find out in a few days for only $20. The USB one was only $5.

Trabant
Nov 26, 2011

All systems nominal.


Quick question for you all:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uaYHYs4ubw

Scarodactyl
Oct 22, 2015




What kind of chip you got in there, a dorito?

You Am I
May 20, 2001

I will decide who posts John Howard pictures in this thread and the circumstances in which they post.



God I remember those ads as a little kid.

At that same little kid time, I found it weird that Holden called their family car after a computer

Jestery
Aug 2, 2016

D. HALL




Quite literally out dated, it only goes up to 1999

Humphreys
Jan 26, 2013

We conceived a way to use my mother as a porn mule







https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfktjZp1m6E

Slimy Hog
Apr 22, 2008






This is really neat. That packaging is something else

Humphreys
Jan 26, 2013

We conceived a way to use my mother as a porn mule







Slimy Hog posted:

This is really neat. That packaging is something else

Oh boy it makes my copy of Tools Album that folds out to have a screen also quant and beginner level. Gotta laugh that one of the track names has rotten.com listed.

rndmnmbr
Jul 3, 2012



I don't miss rotten.com, but I do miss the rotten library. It was a surprisingly insightful and well-written for the site.

Rappaport
Oct 2, 2013


rndmnmbr posted:

I don't miss rotten.com, but I do miss the rotten library. It was a surprisingly insightful and well-written for the site.

You can just use the wayback machine, the library seems perfectly readable there, at least the random articles I've had to look up in the past few years.

Johnny Aztec
Jan 29, 2005
Probation
Can't post for 23 days!


There any place on SA to talk about....uhh

well, do people still build Retro PC systems for older games?

Annnd if so, what kind of breakpoints do they use? And in that , I mean do they focus on a good Win 98 box, or go more towards XP .(and the associated era of hardware)

I get that it also depends on what era of games you are looking for, but my ( admittedly vague) memory seems to be that XP could still play 95 and DOS games reasonably well?

Some Goon
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.



There's a Retro subforum of games, you could start a thread.

Johnny Aztec
Jan 29, 2005
Probation
Can't post for 23 days!


Some Goon posted:

There's a Retro subforum of games, you could start a thread.

No need for that. There is a retro computering thread already there.


....I knew that subforum existed. Just...didn't even come to mind with this.

Thanks "Some Goon"!

Humphreys
Jan 26, 2013

We conceived a way to use my mother as a porn mule







Johnny Aztec posted:

No need for that. There is a retro computering thread already there.


....I knew that subforum existed. Just...didn't even come to mind with this.

Thanks "Some Goon"!

Oooh now I have a place to post that I never really looked for.

Wasabi the J
Jan 23, 2008


Wish more people would post links when they answer their own questions....

Imagined
Feb 2, 2007


mng
Nov 18, 2006

I just performed testicle surgery on the reporter!

Edit: Thanks, figured it out!

Johnny Aztec
Jan 29, 2005
Probation
Can't post for 23 days!


Would you say it would be better to have a single stick of 512 MB SDRAM, or two 256 MB sticks, if you were building a Windows 98 Retro box?

rndmnmbr
Jul 3, 2012



Honestly, if you are talking old PC-100 or PC-133 SDRAM, it doesn't matter. IIRC, neither Pentiums nor Athlons of that vintage supported dual-channel modes that would give 2x256 an advantage.

Johnny Aztec
Jan 29, 2005
Probation
Can't post for 23 days!


rndmnmbr posted:

Honestly, if you are talking old PC-100 or PC-133 SDRAM, it doesn't matter. IIRC, neither Pentiums nor Athlons of that vintage supported dual-channel modes that would give 2x256 an advantage.

Cool. I'm from around that era, but alot of that stuff sort of gets mushed together over time.


Unfortunately, this board has the intel 430TX chipset, limiting it to 256MB TOTAL anyhow.

Dick Trauma
Nov 30, 2007

God damn it, you've got to be kind.

Clapping Larry

Why would anyone ever need more than 256 megs of RAM?

Johnny Aztec
Jan 29, 2005
Probation
Can't post for 23 days!




Getting there!

It's been kind of fun digging through my boxes of old poo poo and actually putting them to use.

Because the TX chipset is limited to 256MB, I have one stick of 256 SDRAM in there. I debated between using SDRAM or the SIMM slots, but ended up just saying "screw it" and going with the SDRAM.

I still need to format that HDD. Which is a 20 GB IBM Deskstar. Not the drive that was in the machine.

I need to burn a Windows 98 SE install disk, and one for all the drivers of the cards and motherboard.


Found the manual for the board: http://www.bcmcom.com/tech/sq575/sq575-man.pdf

The driver webpage does say: "Supports 8, 16, 32, 64, and 128 MB EDO/SDRAM DIMM " System does seem to be booting with the single 256 stick. I will, of course, do stress tests.
If not, then I'll use the stick of 128 and the stick of 64MB I have, until I locate another 128MB stick.


The board does support Two USB ports, but modern headers has them doubled up in a square, and this has 8 pins in a line, so got to dig through my poo poo and see if I can find a header that works.


Oh, it has a 133mhz Pentium MMX installed in it. Evidently, the board can support up to a 300 mhz chip.

Pham Nuwen
Oct 30, 2010





I want to see the front of that case... it looks exactly like the Gateway 2000 486 I bought from Goodwill as my Linux box. The power switch was so goddamn satisfying.

Nocheez
Sep 5, 2000

Can you spare a little cheddar?


Nap Ghost

That's some nostalgia for me, there. I was already on broadband internet by 95 (Roadrunner debuted in my area, we had it running on Win 3.1) and the golden age of gaming for me was around that time. Diablo on Battle.net was my entire summer one year.

Nocheez has a new favorite as of 04:22 on Dec 5, 2020

Johnny Aztec
Jan 29, 2005
Probation
Can't post for 23 days!


Pham Nuwen posted:

I want to see the front of that case... it looks exactly like the Gateway 2000 486 I bought from Goodwill as my Linux box. The power switch was so goddamn satisfying.

It is your standard AT case, I believe.



and the rear:



Funny that you mention the Gateway 2000. The 14.4 ISA modem that is in this, is branded Gateway 2000


The system was originally a DTK PEER-1630 but it's a frakenstein system. Board had been upgraded to the socket 7 BCM SQ575.

You know, those major electronics powerhouses DTK and BCM.



And yes, the power switch does give a satisfying hearty THUD as you flip it.

Cojawfee
May 31, 2006
I think the US is dumb for not using Celsius

More like IBM Deathstar m i rite

Johnny Aztec
Jan 29, 2005
Probation
Can't post for 23 days!


Cojawfee posted:

More like IBM Deathstar m i rite

Hah yeah. I had looked that up before. That wasnt until the 2001 models.
and only the Deskstar 75GXP line.

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rndmnmbr
Jul 3, 2012



Oh wow, that's even older than I thought. 256mb PC-100 is plenty, you will be CPU limited long before you run out of RAM.

I wish this had came up a couple of years ago, I had a couple of P266-MMX chips on 430HX chipset boards that could have been drop-in replacements. Also had a K6-2 333 that would have dropped right in too. Sadly all gone now.

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