Post the very best in obsolete and failed technology

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Horace: Apr 17, 2007; Gone Skiin'

Datasmurf posted:

My first phone was this old beauty though.

The Bosch 509 GSM. Stopped seeing Bosch mobile phones after the 2000s, so I guess it failed. Too bad, it was a nice little phone. Not quite a Nokia or an Ericsson (only the weird, poor kids had Motorola, and they got teased for it too), but not too shabby either.

Hey, that was my first phone too. I thought I was the only person in the world who actually bought one. Loved the way it lit up, and the buttons were wonderful.

I found it in a box a couple of months ago, the battery had expired so I chopped the case around a bit so it would run off a Sony Ericsson battery. Enjoyed a bit of nostalgia sending text messages from it.

# ¿ Aug 1, 2012 17:42

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# ¿ Apr 24, 2024 07:34

Horace: Apr 17, 2007; Gone Skiin'

Fozaldo posted:

You could take the disc out of the camera mid way through usage due to a clever little window that prevented exposure. This enabled you to take a picture, take out the disc, wind it back one and then take another picture over the last one for some cool double exposure effects. Well I thought they cool, Boots thought I was a retard and put stickers on the pictures saying so.

Ah, Boots photo stickers. I scanned all my family's photos a couple of years ago and I think I got the full set, including the rare 'why have you given us wet film?' one.

Mewsbrook Park, Littlehampton by Monty Horace, on Flickr

Torn Sprockets by Monty Horace, on Flickr

wipeout posted:

Do you guys think we can get another 10 pages out of bank chat? That would be so awesome.

I present the Sinclair C5:

Early electric vehicle, I saw one once - I think it had broken down.

I spotted one of these on the road near my house recently. I say on the road, the driver was dismantling it at some traffic lights and had tools and bits scattered all over the pavement.

# ¿ Oct 3, 2012 23:21

Horace: Apr 17, 2007; Gone Skiin'

Here's an interesting camera I was given a couple of years ago. It's a Half Frame SLR. It fits two pictures on each 35mm frame - the late 80s equivalent of running your 12mp camera in 6mp mode so you can fit more on the memory card.

You hold it like a video camera, because the film has to travel vertically. It's actually very comfortable to use, although being fully automatic with no manual mode (it has no manual adjustments at all, except flash on/off) it's a bit boring.

The flash doesn't work and I'm sure there's some fault with the shutter too but I got some reasonable photos out of it. 72 pictures on a roll!

# ¿ Oct 21, 2012 21:32

Horace: Apr 17, 2007; Gone Skiin'

The Aston Martin Lagonda is a great digital dash. An amazing looking car with all digital instruments - in 1976 - which cost a phenomenal amount to develop. Naturally no thought was given to the actual readability of the thing. Like most digital dashes the designers seem to have got themselves so excited by the concept that they forgot what makes analogue gauges so easy to read.

The LED speedo and rev counter developed a reputation for unreliability (shockingly). Here's some in action in a series II car. I don't know if these are supposed to be broken or not:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_-e5PuKtss

For the later models they were replaced with little CRTs, which developed a reputation for unreliability.

Pham Nuwen posted:

I think the Gremlin looks kind of neat in its own way. If anything, I'd say gently caress the generic blob-sedan of the late 90s through today. Oh boy, another Ford Taurus! And on the other hand, I loved the look of my red 2002 Hyundai Accent.

If something exists, there's probably a forum somewhere with some number of fanatics with their own weird set of in-jokes.

Autoshite is a good one. They were recently congratulating a member who bought (and travelled hundreds of miles for) one of the few Ford Tempos in Britain.

# ¿ Aug 14, 2013 02:29

Horace: Apr 17, 2007; Gone Skiin'

Chunk5 posted:

I had a Vauxhall (or GM/Opel/Holden, depending on where you are) Astra GTE in the '90s. Bezzing it along to the sounds of The Prodigy. It was like playing Gran Turismo. Anyone who saw it though it was cooler than the car.

I love the digital-esque font on the distinctly non-digital odometer. The AM Lagonda's odo was one thing they didn't trust to the electronics. It was analogue and hidden under the bonnet.

# ¿ Aug 14, 2013 11:14

Horace: Apr 17, 2007; Gone Skiin'

Sunshine89 posted:

"Glass Top Vicky" was Ford's top-range car for 1955. The roof forward of the B-pillar was a tinted acrylic glass panel, which acted as a sunroof. Initially it made a splash but eventually, it proved unpopular. It made the occupants of the car look a sickly shade of green, and the styling required a B-pillar when pillarless hardtops were gaining popularity. Particularly in warmer climates, it acted as a literal greenhouse and made the interior of the car very hot. It taxed the DC generator powered air conditioning systems of the day, and Ford hastily introduced a snap-in sunshade. This concept was dropped after this year, and the Sunliner name was given to Ford's convertibles.

That car, and most glass roofs, look amazing. I suppose that's why we never ever seem to learn how impractical they are. There was an aftermarket glass roof available for my current car, which also looks fabulous:

but as ever:

An Owner posted:

Yes, it got wicked hot in the summertime, and while it did have A/C, it was useless because it couldn't overcome the greenhouse effect when you rolled up the windows, not to mention that using the A/C at anything below highway speeds caused the car to overheat.

Even knowing it'd turn the car into an oven, if one came up for sale I'd have it.

# ¿ Apr 6, 2014 23:41

Horace: Apr 17, 2007; Gone Skiin'

The removable radio/facia plate is much better than the dreaded security code. Nothing beats getting ten miles into a long road trip, turning on the radio and it demanding a security code you don't remember. Or worse, locking yourself out of the radio for an hour because you thought you remembered it. Made all the worse when the unit is a worthless mono radio which absolutely no-one would steal.

# ¿ Apr 7, 2014 13:11

Horace: Apr 17, 2007; Gone Skiin'

Carousels were very expensive even used, so I had something like this:

Which was metal cased and had no cooling fan. It also only held two slides so you had to get really close to it to change them, and, well, you know The Cornballer from Arrested Development? It was like that every time you changed a slide because the action of sliding the new slide into it would move the projector a little bit and you'd instinctively touch its white hot metal casing. I think the manual even said something about not leaving any slide in there for too long in case the heat of the bulb ruined it.

I eventually splashed out for a used Carousel.

edit: I'll bet 110 film looks just amazing projected onto a big screen!

# ¿ Apr 9, 2014 01:56

Horace: Apr 17, 2007; Gone Skiin'

GWBBQ posted:

110 was the tiny cartridges, I think you might have meant 120

I love my medium format projector, which does double duty as an art deco death ray.

I didn't notice it when I grabbed the photo, but that projector I posted is a 110 projector! I found the picture on eBay. I didn't even know you could ever get 110 slide film, but Wiki says Kodak made it until 1982, and Lomography recently re-introduced it but it doesn't seem to be available any more.

# ¿ Apr 9, 2014 10:58

Horace: Apr 17, 2007; Gone Skiin'

Ensign Expendable posted:

Rotary phones are the best, dialing a number is super satisfying. Shame they don't work with digital menus and whatnot.

You can buy an inexpensive gizmo which is installed inside your rotary phone and converts it to touch tone for use with digital menus. It even adds speed dial and last number redial!

I love that someone went to the effort to design and manufacture such a thing. It's quite smart - it adds no buttons, you send it commands through the existing rotary dial by holding numbers against the finger stop until it bleeps.

# ¿ Apr 19, 2014 04:21

Horace: Apr 17, 2007; Gone Skiin'

WebDog posted:

That Sim card debate reminded me of some video I saw in 1998 where Olympic swimmer Suzie O'Niell and morning kids show host Jade Gatt were given the "challenge" of getting to the swimming center with Gatt armed with a $100 note and O'Neill; a Telstra Smart Card.

Gatt was shown to be presented with the impossibility of being allowed on a bus with a $100 note and having to find a corner shop to get it broken in order to buy a bus ticket while O'Neill just strolled through Sydney with her Smart Card opening up doors and paying for busses with little or no fuss.
I can't recall if a taxi was attempted.

But the idea for a one size fits all wondercard was stymied for years in Australia over privacy concerns as it was to be pretty much an identity document that revealed all and was open to rampant amounts of identity theft.

PayWave in recent times has pretty much filled the desire to not run around around with tons of shrapnel in your wallet.

That made me smile, the UK went through the same thing with its failed national identity register/ID card scheme which was also going to solve all sorts of problems which no-one ever had. It would have even solved that $100 note problem since you were going to be forced to pay for them.

# ¿ Apr 21, 2014 20:28

Horace: Apr 17, 2007; Gone Skiin'

Tiny Brontosaurus posted:

Hi

Thinking of getting a small non-electric typewriter for making index cards (part of my outlining process).

1) Is that a thing you can even reasonably do with a typewriter
2) If so what would you suggest?

Price is no particular object but learning curve/technical finickyness is.

I thoroughly recommend buying a manual typewriter, they're fun and cheap. Check eBay for ribbon, they're still available for most of the mainstream typewriters. Index cards will be fiddly in a typewriter - as Magnus Praeda said it'll curl them a bit. If the platen rubber has gone hard with age the card will slip in the roller which will be irritating.

If you can try one before buying it just check that all the letters print well, and that all the letters are in a straight line. Alignment can be tricky to adjust properly. Typewriters should be oiled with a small amount of light oil on a brush. Don't blast them with WD-40.

I'm a fan of Olympia's portables, they're well made and enjoyable to use. Whatever you get, don't spend a fortune because you really don't have to.

edit: fast thread

# ¿ May 8, 2014 02:18

Horace: Apr 17, 2007; Gone Skiin'

Electric windows are terrible, they're so agonisingly slow and often only work with the ignition on. It's not a deal breaker but I'd take the winder any day.

I'll accept that manual gearboxes are almost obsolete now that modern automatics have reduced or removed the economy and performance penalties of a traditional auto, but they're still hideously complicated pieces of machinery compared to a manual box and I don't expect them to ever replace manuals across the board.

# ¿ May 11, 2014 22:44

Horace: Apr 17, 2007; Gone Skiin'

dissss posted:

The first part is definitely not true - electric windows are usually a lot faster than manual winders (unless something is wrong with them).

As for manual vs auto - I would prefer an manual but on my car it would have cost thousands more as they're far more sought after in the second hand market (mainly due to scarcity)

I don't doubt there are poorly designed manual windows out there, but I've driven a lot of new cars with slow windows. They usually take about three seconds to close completely, you can spin a handle round a few times a lot quicker than that.

# ¿ May 12, 2014 00:42

Horace: Apr 17, 2007; Gone Skiin'

^ That's true, that's when they're useful. I just find them inferior to manual windows in every other situation.

Okay, here's a bit of genuinely obsolete automotive tech.

(enlargable)

Aftermarket fuel computers for carburettor cars! When these show up on eBay they're usually unused, and I think that's because a lot of people found the installation a bit daunting. You've got to cut into your fuel line to install that (massive!) filter and flow sensor, you have to pull your speedo out of the dash to install the distance sensor "as close as possible to the revolving magnetic field within the speedometer" and then there's a fistful of wiring to connect these components to each other, the box and your existing loom. Oh, and of course you need to drill into your dashboard to install the box itself. Then it needs calibrating on the road.

But it's all worth it for that instantaneous MPG readout in a box which is integrated into your dash so well no-one would ever know it wasn't factory!

# ¿ May 12, 2014 02:01

Horace: Apr 17, 2007; Gone Skiin'

This is pretty far from cars AND iPods! Back in the 90s one of my relatives replaced his broken automatic washing machine with one of these, a Twin Tub. These things were very popular in the 1960s for the sole reason that they were affordable.

But this was the 90s and the thing was a relic when he bought it. It offered zero advantages over a normal washing machine. It couldn't be installed under the counter, it had to be dragged out into the kitchen every time it was to be used. The classy plank of wood top (as photo) had to be removed and propped up against the wall before the fill and drain hoses were connected to the tap and sink. Once it had washed your clothes you had to heave all your sopping wet clothes into the spinner tub and when that was finished it all needed putting away again. The final step being to mop up the water that spilled from the hoses.

It didn't last long.

# ¿ May 13, 2014 02:09

Horace: Apr 17, 2007; Gone Skiin'

Humboldt Squid posted:

Still very popular in Latin America actually!

If they also still have fitted carpet in their bathrooms then I could get strangely nostalgic visiting the place.

# ¿ May 13, 2014 02:29

Horace: Apr 17, 2007; Gone Skiin'

SCART cables were a pain to plug in, and were massive, but single cable connections between the TV and VCR was at least easy and tidy. Also, having the TV automatically switch onto the VCR channel when a tape was inserted, then back to TV when it was ejected, was pretty cool.

# ¿ Dec 3, 2014 19:40

Horace: Apr 17, 2007; Gone Skiin'

I love those cassettes with the little reel-to-reel style, uh, reels.

# ¿ Dec 13, 2014 22:28

Horace: Apr 17, 2007; Gone Skiin'

This VCR chat reminded me of something you don't tend to see so much on modern electronics - excessive, permanent feature labelling. It was endemic on audio visual equipment in the 90s. Look at this disaster:

HQ LONG PLAY VIDEO CASSETTE RECORDER LCD PROGRAMMABLE REMOTE CONTROL SYSTEM COMPUTER CONTROL SYSTEM CLOCK COUNTER DIGITIAL DISPLAY REMOTE SENSOR

Got some blank space here, better put some pointless text on it...

WORLDWIDE VIDEO COMMUNICATION SUPER 3-HEAD DIGITAL TRACKING HQ VIDEO CASSETTE RECORDER ALL DIFFERENT FONT SIZES EJECT BUTTON IN MIDDLE OF DISPLAY

# ¿ Dec 17, 2014 17:19

Horace: Apr 17, 2007; Gone Skiin'

spog posted:

I love them because they could nonchalently use the phrase, 'we're going to use our lathes to send a fax to each other'

Tim: "I usually decorate my circuits with tiny people"

# ¿ Feb 15, 2015 00:50

Horace: Apr 17, 2007; Gone Skiin'

The only obsolescence proof car entertainment is an empty DIN enclosure. Updating my 45 year old car with a Bluetooth headunit took ten minutes. Imagine having one of today's cars in ten years time - you'll probably have a useless integral touchscreen which doesn't recognise whatever passes for a smartphone in 2025.

# ¿ Mar 1, 2015 18:34

Horace: Apr 17, 2007; Gone Skiin'

My Lovely Horse posted:

I recently got into Spotify and I'm torn between "this is fantastic" and "but what if they ever lose a license or the business folds or or". I mean, I remember other services that I used to use a lot and none of those is around anymore, meanwhile I've still got MP3s on my hard drive that I remember ripping years before then. I'm hesitant to really rely on streaming services but I'm definitely discovering a lot of good stuff through Spotify.

Just make sure you go into settings and turn on "show unavailable tracks in playlists", so you notice when something is removed.

# ¿ May 11, 2015 21:30

Horace: Apr 17, 2007; Gone Skiin'

I'm pissed because I just had to buy a CD from eBay to get a track which vanished from not only Spotify but also iTunes, Amazon Music Store and every other digital outlet I searched. Now I've got to use someone else's computer to 'rip it' (don't think I've even used that expression in half a decade) then use Dropbox or something to get it onto my laptop.

I used to spend hours making poo poo mixtapes to listen to on the bus, a bus ride I had to take into town to buy a single track for �4 or an album for �15. I can't believe how spoiled I've been by digital music.

# ¿ May 13, 2015 01:56

Horace: Apr 17, 2007; Gone Skiin'

There was also Region Coding Enhancement which attempted to stop discs being played in multi region players. If you did try to play the disc in a multi-region player, it would display a picture of a map with some text explaining how you were a bad person for buying a product.

I only encountered it once (one of the early seasons of Always Sunny, I think) and fortunately my multi-region player didn't give a poo poo and played it anyway. I didn't buy any of the following DVDs though.

# ¿ May 22, 2015 16:43

Horace: Apr 17, 2007; Gone Skiin'

Vlad the Retailer posted:

notbyal.html

This is such a time capsule, it's like the track listing from K-Tel's 'Cringy poo poo a 13 year old would download" double CD/Cassette.

quote:

AOL Song, The
Bin Laden Bomb Song, The
Internet Sandman (Enter Napster) (Metallica Vs Napster)
It's Gonna Be Me (Gore Versus Bush)
Last Vote For Al Gore
Make My Boobies One More Size
Microsoft! (Bloatware)
My DNA (Bill Clinton)
My Fart Will Go On And On
Oops, I Farted Again
Oops, I'm Pregnant Again
Soft Wars: The Microsoft Empire Strikes Back
Titanic Song, The
Who Wants A Recount
Will The Real Slim Shady Please Shut Up
Windows 95 Sucks

# ¿ Jun 4, 2015 20:33

Horace: Apr 17, 2007; Gone Skiin'

Dick Trauma posted:

In the 1970s they were on the back of cereal boxes. My brother has this exact one stashed away somewhere (#2 Goin' Back to Indiana). Even when it was new it sounded like Edison recorded it, but we thought it was really cool.

I think a cut out record on the back of a cereal box is still pretty cool even by today's standards. Was the hole in the centre pre-punched or did you need wicked scissor skills?

# ¿ Jun 10, 2015 01:05

Horace: Apr 17, 2007; Gone Skiin'

The UK's digital radio deserves a place in this thread. It has been such a disappointment. DAB launched 20 years ago promising more and varied stations, crystal clear reception, car radio which didn't cut out in tunnels and easy tuning! Well, here's the sort of sound quality you can expect from your ~~homogenised commercial shite~~ varied music stations:

That's right, 80kbps MP2. In mono. This is what they want to shut down FM for. Surely everyone has noticed their favourite stations halve their bitrate and switch from stereo to mono?

Pure, a large DAB radio manufacturer posted:

Although a small minority prefer the sound of FM, every poll of digital radio listeners has indicated that the vast majority of listeners are more than happy with digital radio sound quality.

Talk about damning with faint praise.

I don't know if it cuts out in tunnels because in car DAB is still incredibly rare. A couple of years ago car accessory giant Halfords claimed they would stop selling analogue car radios by 2015. Unless they're planning on culling their entire radio section on Dec 31st (they aren't) that is not going to happen. 2015 was also the first date for the supposed FM switch off. Since by 2013 DAB only accounted for 36% of radio listeners, this date was pushed back to the more realistic "dunno, probably not ever".

# ¿ Jun 13, 2015 01:16

Horace: Apr 17, 2007; Gone Skiin'

We never had a touch tone phone. Ours were pulse dialling, right into the 2000s. For me the sound of dialling the phone will always be pu-pu-pu-puh. pu-puh. pu-pu-pu-pu-pu-puh.

# ¿ Jun 17, 2015 17:32

Horace: Apr 17, 2007; Gone Skiin'

WebDog posted:

Back in the olde Nokia days it was a bit of a thing to get your operator logo changed into a fancy graphic or as phones got more advanced, edit the little animated hands you got when you turned your phone on.

Usually via some suspect site.

Oh, I love these. I'd forgotten all about them until a couple of months ago when I found some magazines from the early 00s. Here's an ad picked at random:

These cost �3 each. That's how much you had to pay if you wanted to see Snoopy being ejaculated on every time you looked at your Nokia 3210.

# ¿ Jul 30, 2015 23:36

Horace: Apr 17, 2007; Gone Skiin'

Collateral Damage posted:

I had a 7110 for a short time. It had the same Matrix-like slide function with a button on the side that made the "mouthpiece" shoot out.

The latch for the slide tended to wear out quickly though and after a while it wouldn't stay closed.

The sliding keypad cover was a great gimmick, but the most striking feature of this phone was its enormous screen. Doesn't look much today, but when a friend rolled up with one of these it was like an IMAX screen in comparison to all our other phones. Don't think my phone could display graphics of any sort, and he has Snake II and an animated hand intro.

# ¿ Aug 12, 2015 01:20

Horace: Apr 17, 2007; Gone Skiin'

I had a C35, but the buttons were too squishy and hard to use so I traded it in for an S35, which was such a good phone I kept it for eight years.

The C35 came with free weekend WAP access, but even free it wasn't worth the effort. There was an online boxing game I remember trying to play where you were presented with a picture of your opponent and two options. After choosing an option you had to wait about 30 seconds to a minute for the next screen to load. Agonising.

The phone also had a programmable shortcut button which the network had hijacked and locked to their lovely WAP portal. Dicks.

# ¿ Aug 12, 2015 14:35

Horace: Apr 17, 2007; Gone Skiin'

Jedit posted:

We had the same thing in Manchester when I was growing up.

Put it in a slot at the top of a machine, when the bottom hits a pressure plate a blade clips off the bottom-most square (hence "Clippercard") and an ink-stamp imprints the time, date and route number of the bus.

It does if the bus had the machine, but none of the Arriva buses did. Their drivers used a selection of office hole punches, scissors and hand tearing to remove the tiny squares. Often this resulted in a card lasting many more than ten journeys when the driver didn't want to hold up the queue (or just couldn't be arsed clipping).

They were great.

# ¿ Sep 4, 2015 23:44

Horace: Apr 17, 2007; Gone Skiin'

hackbunny posted:

I guess this is how the British rationalized their absurd pre-decimal coinage too

I have a very obsolete keying to simplify all that new money nonsense.

# ¿ Oct 15, 2015 21:01

Horace: Apr 17, 2007; Gone Skiin'

BalloonFish posted:

Didn't these have a voice synthesiser at some point? The British motor industry tried that on the 80s Austin Maestro and Montego - the top-spec versions had VFD digital dashboard and then a voice synth which would, at the touch of a button, tell you your instant and average fuel consumption, fuel range and average speed as well as verbal warnings about fuel level, oil level, engine temperature etc.

Except that not only was this 1980s digital technology; it was British 1980s digital technology. The dashboard was co-developed by Lucas and Smiths and then fitted to an Austin. So the voice synthesiser would usually nag the driver to fill up with fuel just as they pulled out off the forecourt with a full tank, would overreact to oil surge when cornering and would warn you that you'd left the lights on as you drove down the motorway at 70mph. And the quality of the synthesiser is terrible - the voice actress sounds like she's talking from the bottom of a pond.

Worst of all, it wasn't even a very imaginative digital dash - where's the tachometer shaped like the engine's power curve? Where are the fighter jet motifs?

That voice actress was Nicolette Mckenzie. Last year she took a break from her busy schedule to attend the Maestro and Montego's birthday celebrations:

quote:

Nicolette herself travelled up from London to meet the owners of the cars keeping her voice alive. She entertained everyone by giving live renditions of �The boot is open. The boot is OPEN. THE BOOT IS OPEN� as she had to record them.

That's showbiz!

# ¿ Oct 25, 2015 22:00

Horace: Apr 17, 2007; Gone Skiin'

WebDog posted:

Early 90's skeuomorphic interface design was pretty mental.

Still a thing in the world of car audio, unfortunately minus all the skilled people.

A touchscreen interface designed for use in a car.

# ¿ Dec 29, 2015 02:05

Horace: Apr 17, 2007; Gone Skiin'

Jerry Cotton posted:

You push a button on the remote to change the video shown on screen (it doesn' t actually have to be a different angle because the DVD player can't tell what it is showing anyway). Of course no-one would ever use it while watching a regular movie because why would you?

Also one downside - my DVD player had a massive CAMERA 1/4 icon on the screen all the time when multiple angles were available, making the movie look like security camera footage. Actually switching between angles brought the movie to a jarring halt for a couple of seconds so it wasn't as if you could have played amateur director jumping from camera to camera anyway.

# ¿ Jan 30, 2016 01:21

Horace: Apr 17, 2007; Gone Skiin'

Talking about jewel cases, weren't they awful poo poo? Every part of them was a failure. The hinges snapped all the time, the little teeth usually held the disc too strongly for a while before snapping off and not holding it at all, and if you got a booklet with the CD the paper would get hosed up by the semi-circles that were supposed to hold it in place. Then there were those 2-disc cases where the inside part hinged - for a brief period before breaking.

Why couldn't they have just shipped CDs in cardboard sleeves like miniature LPs?

# ¿ Feb 9, 2016 01:15

Horace: Apr 17, 2007; Gone Skiin'

spog posted:

Plus the weight of that cable was heavier than the effort needed to remove it - i.e. the bastard thing would always unplugs itself

Physical issues aside, SCART was very good. But I got sick of them unplugging themselves so I bought an expensive (as in not free with a device) SCART cable. It certainly felt high quality - it had gold contacts, the cable was thick yet flexible and the plugs were made of metal. That meant that they were really heavy.

So they fell out of the television.

# ¿ Feb 16, 2016 23:09

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# ¿ Apr 24, 2024 07:34

Horace: Apr 17, 2007; Gone Skiin'

Turdsdown Tom posted:

mmmm, look at that 1.5inch screen. and it's black and white, too.

I don't think you're doing the quality of the screen justice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MhzJ3EO3Rc

# ¿ Mar 11, 2016 12:08

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