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Cardinal Ximenez posted:Does anyone have any experience with the Linux port? It looks interesting, but I'm not going to spend $40 without a significant chance of it working. Last I checked, the Linux port was in Beta. They don't offer amd64 architecture because it's more someones pet project to port it to Linux right now. The deb package didn't want to work for me, and I didn't feel like installing a bunch of 32 libs. I don't feel like I'm missing much, though. A real writer uses cat.
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Jul 16, 2012 21:39
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Here's the critique write-up I mentioned in the previous thread, Stupor: Mike Works’ Mega Workshopping Post quote:“Effective criticism requires both absolute honesty—which is a sign that you respect the writer—and absolute tact. You want the writer to leave the workshop with a feeling of possibility rather than failure. Be excited about the potential story you can glimpse in what the writer has done so far. Challenge the writer to ask more of the story, and convey your belief that he or she is up to the task. If you offer insincere praise for fear of offending someone, you’re lowering the bar and encouraging mediocrity. Assume the other person wants to grow, not be patted on the back, and offer your comments accordingly.” As the quote above alludes to, workshopping can be tricky business, but an invaluable skill for any writer. I’ve said this before, but I think critiquing and workshopping someone else’s story mainly benefits you more than it does them; once you gain enough confidence to properly dissect and discuss someone else’s story, you start to gain a harder and wiser eye when it comes to evaluating, and even creating your own writing. It’s like loving magic. Clap your hands three times and let’s begin. 1. Where to begin? Sometimes the trickiest part to workshopping is knowing where to start. In the university workshops I’ve participated in, each student is assigned 2 (out of 30) stories to “introduce” – that is, before the roundtable discussion begins, they have to break down the story for the class and summarize the plot. Here’s the checklist we have to go through: quote:When summarizing plot, identify: But do you recognize it when analyzing and critiquing? Ahh, that’s the big question. After reading a short story, we can feel one of a dozen ways; perhaps the story was really good up until the end? Or maybe the opening was a bit boring, but it picked up steam in the middle? Maybe you liked the main character, but not the story itself? Maybe the opposite? The big question is: why? And that’s what the summarizing plot exercise above kicks into motion. I mentioned that my classmates and I had to address those questions only twice in a semester, but I can tell you that I used the above checklist when workshopping every single story in those classes. It’s a great, great tool for identifying early on what clicked for you in the story’s structure, or perhaps what didn’t. And best of all, it’s usually very easy. And if it isn’t easy? Well hey, you may have just discovered a vital weakness in the story. Which leads us to… 2. The Questions quote:• What do we think this story is trying to become? What are its distinctive features? What seems to be the writer’s main interest while writing this? The first paragraph contains questions that help to orientate you, the reader, as to why you felt this story was attempted in the first place. Every story is written for a reason. Every writer has a voice and has something they want people to read, whether it’s to entertain, intrigue, propose questions, etc… Answering these questions will help not only your attempted understanding of the piece, but will also help the author in seeing how people interpreted his or her work. The second paragraph is filled with positivity, and this is vital (re-read Addonizio’s quote at the top of this post if you like). Listening and reading people workshop and critique your story can be absolutely brutal for a writer. It’s tough; you’ve taken the huge step of sharing your work with others, and it’s about to get criticized. People are about to tell you how you’ve failed. So you know what? You need to hear about how you’ve succeeded first. Because every story succeeds in some way. And then we get to the lovely third paragraph. You need to hear about the issues or shortcomings in your stories. If you don’t, then there’s a very good chance that they won’t improve and become the loving amazing story they’re destined to be. We’ve all shown our work to friends and relatives and received the standard, “This is so good!” Getting praise feels good, and there’s no harm in it! But you need to have your work critiqued if you want it to improve. Don’t get me wrong, you can go back and edit a first or second or fifth draft and make it better… but there are simply going to be so many things that your own eyes will not catch that are there. Every single professional writer I’ve spoken to gets their work critiqued by at least two other professional writers that they know and trust (this isn’t including their editors). It may feel difficult and harsh to tell someone where their story is lacking, but if you do it honesty and tact, you will help make their story better. And ultimately, they should appreciate that. 3. Three quick sentences quote:Your story is about… This is another great little technique for figuring out where a story has succeeded or come up short in its attempt. Finish the first sentence with something overreaching: if you were talking about Jurassic Park, you wouldn’t say, “…dinosaurs ripping poo poo up!” You’d want to come up with something more like, “…whether or not man has the right to play God, and the consequences of doing so.” Finish the second sentence with your honest first impression, perhaps the one you got while still reading the story for the first time, perhaps the impression you formed right after you finished reading. Finish the third sentence with how that initial impression changed or evolved after finishing the story, contemplation, and perhaps re-reading it. How were you able to reach this ultimate conclusion? Did the story earn this depth? Perhaps your initial impression didn’t change at all? Is that a good thing or a bad thing? This is just a small little exercise to get your brain ready for… 4. Ze Details! So you’ve got a firm grasp on what generally is and isn’t working with a story, but now you want to dive into specifics. Perhaps you think there’s an issue with the characters, but you’re not exactly sure how to explain it? Maybe something feels off (or on!) with the dialogue, but how do you summarize that? Here are the 7 different components I analyze in every workshop: quote:Plot and Structure [consider: placement of scenes and proportion of scene vs. summary; climax, flashbacks; also: does this story need to be told, is it original or does it deal successfully with an old story in a new way?] So there you have it. Those 4 sections are all I use every time I workshop a story. In our workshops, we’re required to write two pages of prose critique, and mark up a copy of the story with line edits. For context, I’ve randomly selected one of my workshop critiques from six months ago so you can see what a finished product might look like. Keep in mind that while this critique is given to the author to take home, the workshop classes are primarily discussion-based, and so while the “negative” may outweigh the “positive” in the text, that doesn’t mean it went the same way for the in-class discussion. And because I created this post mainly for online workshops and critiques, I’d probably include more of those positives in a written critique for one of these challenges. Sample Workshop: quote:I’m going to jump head first into the narration of this story, because it’s a unique focal point for this class. Usually the major discussion topics in our workshops are structure and character or dialogue, but the use of the omniscient point of view in your story is an interesting decision. For the record, while I felt that the omniscient POV didn’t quite work in this draft of your story, I think it still can work. My issue isn’t with the fact that we know the thoughts of all of the characters, as there are some positives that you capitalize on early on in your story; by getting into the heads of all of these characters in the hotel, we get to know their motives and how they will potentially clash with one another. It’s incredibly intriguing. Usually the reader’s intrigue (in stories containing a third person limited POV) consists of trying to deduce what other characters are thinking and what their motives are. Here, we’re given their motives right away, so our thoughts turn to “how are these plain-set motives going to conflict and change.” And this is where I feel the use of the omniscient POV disappoints: for the vast majority of the story, all of the telegraphed motives actually happen. The POV takes away a lot of surprise we have for what these characters are thinking, which is fine, but that element of surprise if never filled in anywhere else. Examples of unsurprising or telegraphed events: Dawson coming to the hotel to get a servant girl (and getting one), Betty planning her escape (and escaping), Jim noticing his wife acting very suspicious with his meal before eating it (and getting poisoned to death), etc. I think we can up our effort in helping each other with our writing (and inadvertently improving a critical eye for our own work). So don’t be afraid! If you’re writing stories for others to see, you’ve already accomplished the hardest part. Critiquing and accepting criticism can be difficult, but it’s a worthy endeavor for any writer. If you have any questions, feel free to ask. Let’s make our writing better. Mike Works fucked around with this message at 21:48 on Jul 16, 2012 |
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Jul 16, 2012 21:43
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That's a really great post, Mike Works. It looks like it could be really helpful to authors. It might be a bit much to post a standard thread and ask people to answer all those questions. Especially since most threads here are for novel snippets, and that looks like it's geared towards short stories. It's hard to say if there's enough interest to justify a general workshopping thread, though.
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Jul 16, 2012 22:13
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Awesome OP. All hail Stuporstar, CC fiction overlord. Anyway, just dropping in to let y'all know the CC July Fiction Competition is still running. Whether you want that tasty  or just want to stretch your crit muscles and help the entrants out, it's worth a look.
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Jul 17, 2012 08:45
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Great work so far in here, though thanks to my personal circumstances I feel like there should be something in the standard advice section about backing up your work. Seriously, back up your work. I know I'm a broken record about this, but I'm losing months of productivity because I stare at this open printed copy of my manuscript just to the right of me and I just can't bear to work on it for more than an hour or so at a time. Re-treading old ground that wasn't fun the first time is tedious as hell. Dropbox is free and works great. There are other services if you want to do something more aggressive. Just don't put it off and screw yourself.
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Jul 17, 2012 12:08
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Geekboy posted:Great work so far in here, though thanks to my personal circumstances I feel like there should be something in the standard advice section about backing up your work. That's why I'm using evernote at the moment since it saves everything online automatically yet keeps it all on your computer as well(in case your internet is down). If I get this project finished I'll buy Scrivener instead though, since it's difficult to edit carefully in evernote.
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Jul 17, 2012 12:11
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Cpt. Mahatma Gandhi posted:Since you brought up "second draft", I feel this is as good a time as any to ask the question that's been weighing on my mind recently. I find it easier not to worry too much about grammar and legibility in the second draft because my first drafts are always such a total mess. The second draft should really be about fixing the biggest issues with your novel. If you want to cut out a character or a plot thread this is the time to do it. If you want to insert a new plot twist or take one out then now's your opportunity. This isn't the time for delicate operations like making sure the rhythm of a paragraph is pleasing or whether a line of dialogue rings true - this is heavy duty editing. Take a sledgehammer to it and smash the poo poo out of it. Do the big structural edits on that first pass, then deal with the smaller things on the next pass - checking character consistency or flow between scenes. Once you're fairly happy with the big things then you can do a dialogue edit or a grammar edit, or a punctuation pass. Obviously you're going to spot dialogue nasties, ropey grammar and inconsistencies on your first massive draftmangling edit, but don't worry about them. Make a note of them, but if it's going to take you more than five minutes to fix them then carry on with what you were doing. You can fix them in the next editing pass. Second drafts can be overwhelming. They're the moment you realise exactly how much work you have to do - and it's a lot. I find breaking it down into layered edits makes it seem (slightly) less terrifying.
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Jul 17, 2012 13:28
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Anais Nun posted:I find it easier not to worry too much about grammar and legibility in the second draft because my first drafts are always such a total mess. The second draft should really be about fixing the biggest issues with your novel. If you want to cut out a character or a plot thread this is the time to do it. If you want to insert a new plot twist or take one out then now's your opportunity. Thanks, this is super helpful and cuts right into the anxiety I was having about shortchanging myself during the editing process. I've always been a stickler for grammar and making sure paragraphs flow into one another, so it'll be a bit of a challenge to force myself not to do that right from the get go. Still, I'm willing to give it a shot.
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Jul 17, 2012 19:38
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Cpt. Mahatma Gandhi posted:Thanks, this is super helpful and cuts right into the anxiety I was having about shortchanging myself during the editing process. I've always been a stickler for grammar and making sure paragraphs flow into one another, so it'll be a bit of a challenge to force myself not to do that right from the get go. Still, I'm willing to give it a shot. The anxiety will probably never leave you.  That's just the nature of second drafts. They are horrible, perhaps because you're taking everything you've already done, every word you wrung out of your skull on those slow days when it feels like pulling teeth, and now you're taking a fireaxe to them. You're not just murdering your darlings - you're dismembering them and going full-on Texas Chainsaw Massacre with the bits.I always find it helps if you have time to let your first draft sit for a while - a couple of weeks, months if you have them. Go and work on something fresh. Then come back to your first draft and you'll be amazed to find the difference that a little distance can make. It's not such a wrench to eviscerate the bugger. Instead you feel more as though you're performing necessary surgery.
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Jul 18, 2012 10:52
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For the opening of my story, the two main characters are separate and don't even know the other one exists. They're going to meet before the end of the first chapter. What I'm trying to do is give a couple paragraphs for one and a couple paragraphs for the other until they quite literally run into each other, dovetailing their individual plot threads into one. At that point I will probably do much longer sections before transitioning between them. Here's my question: Is that a stupid idea from a readability (or even accepted-by-publisher) standpoint? I know it makes sense to me, but does that sound too jarring for you guys?
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Jul 18, 2012 14:39
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Anais Nun posted:The anxiety will probably never leave you. Yeah, I let it sit in my desk drawer for almost two months before I took it back out and read through it the first time. Then I started getting really edit-heavy with the grammar and stuff which was when I started to feel like I was really moving off-base. Thanks a ton for your advice, it's been super helpful. I'm going to put it aside for a little bit longer (probably just a couple weeks this time) and return to it with the idea of finding places to improve the story rather than the prose. Considering I want to make some big changes to the story anyway, it's probably best that I take some time to get out of grammar-edit mode before diving right back in.
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Jul 18, 2012 14:49
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ItalicSquirrels posted:For the opening of my story, the two main characters are separate and don't even know the other one exists. They're going to meet before the end of the first chapter. What I'm trying to do is give a couple paragraphs for one and a couple paragraphs for the other until they quite literally run into each other, dovetailing their individual plot threads into one. At that point I will probably do much longer sections before transitioning between them. I'm doing something similar, but I'm giving them each their own chapter. You might want to consider longer sections or separate chapters instead of just one or two paragraphs, though. "How Not to Write a Novel" suggests that ping-ponging between perspectives every 2 paragraphs could be confusing and off-putting to the reader. Alternating between viewpoints in a chapter can be done, but you should make sure that the transition is clear (doubly so if you're using first-person narration). Perhaps a trio of hash marks or something to indicate a scene switch. Never switch perspective mid-paragraph, and don't bounce back and forth between two characters in the same scene. EDIT: Unless you're using an omniscient narrator (thanks for reminding me, Stuporstar). If you're in a close third-person perspective and want to know what both Joe and Alicia are thinking in the same scene, you should pick one for now, and later on you can get the perspective of the other. Cpt. Mahatma Gandhi posted:He could even take the Bret Easton Ellis approach and literally just put the character's name right at the beginning of each transition a la Rules of Attraction. Sure, that's one thing I'm considering using in the chapter names, but even doing that might aggravate readers if he's switching perspectives every 1-3 paragraphs. Stabbey_the_Clown fucked around with this message at 17:00 on Jul 19, 2012 |
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Jul 18, 2012 14:52
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Stabbey_the_Clown posted:I'm doing something similar, but I'm giving them each their own chapter. You might want to consider longer sections or separate chapters instead of just one or two paragraphs, though. Ping-ponging between perspectives every 2 paragraphs could be confusing and off-putting to the reader. He could even take the Bret Easton Ellis approach and literally just put the character's name right at the beginning of each transition a la Rules of Attraction.
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Jul 18, 2012 14:58
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Really loving this version of the thread so far, there's some great advice coming out. Especially the stuff about combat.
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Jul 18, 2012 21:56
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Great post Mike Works. I'll add a link to the OP once I get a little more time later today. I'll also add Geekboy's backing up suggestion.Stabbey_the_Clown posted:I'm doing something similar, but I'm giving them each their own chapter. You might want to consider longer sections or separate chapters instead of just one or two paragraphs, though. This is great advice, except I wanted to point out the bolded part is allowed in an omniscient pov. You still don't want to jump heads mid-paragraph, but if you have a narrator and it's clear who's thinking what, you can bounce from paragraph to paragraph. In omniscient, you can also choose to follow only one character as well. It's pretty open, but tough to master. Consistency is key, and so is tone. This kind of omniscient works just fine for some types of comedy for example. In a deep third pov, you never want to jump pov except for scene or chapter breaks. This is generally more immersive and allows you to build tension through the readers not knowing what the other characters are thinking. The thing is to decide what type of pov you want to follow through your novel, learn its strengths and weaknesses, and stick to it. If it's not working, then diagnose and revise accordingly.
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Jul 19, 2012 15:01
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Stuporstar posted:I'm going to link Scrivener here. I just wanted to say thank you for posting this. I'm very new to seeking advice from actual people because I'm an aloof loser like that, but I'm one of those that gets scattered by details. Thank you so so much!
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Jul 19, 2012 18:47
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lots of people posted:good advice Thanks. I've thought about it for a few days and decided that I'm going to try following one guy until they meet, make it obvious that I'm going back in time a little and switching viewpoints, and then follow guy #2 until they meet. And if that doesn't work, I'm just going to follow one guy and have the second one use his own words to describe to his shipmates what happened earlier. I'm going to do third person limited and switch between the two main characters at chapter breaks. Or at a good transition point during (at one point they split up with one staying aboard their ship and the other heading inside the enemy ship to try and blow up the magazine).
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Jul 19, 2012 19:02
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Cpt. Mahatma Gandhi posted:Yeah, I let it sit in my desk drawer for almost two months before I took it back out and read through it the first time. Then I started getting really edit-heavy with the grammar and stuff which was when I started to feel like I was really moving off-base. You're very welcome. I only recently crawled out of the rubble of a second draft myself. Third drafts are much nicer, so you've got that to look forward to.
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Jul 19, 2012 19:41
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Does anyone know what the ideal novel word counts are for submission to agents and publishers? I know a novel is usually defined as at least 80K words, but not sure how much it damages your chances going under. I'm currently revising and making some additions to my "novel" but it's about 61,000 words now. I'm worried about bogging it down with stuff it doesn't need so I'm on the fence as to whether this is novel material or a novella. I'm expecting I can get to about 70,000 without seriously bogging it down, but any more than that is pushing it.
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Jul 21, 2012 01:22
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Wolfsforza posted:Does anyone know what the ideal novel word counts are for submission to agents and publishers? I know a novel is usually defined as at least 80K words, but not sure how much it damages your chances going under. Just make it good and let it be what it is. The agents and publishers can classify it later. You can sell a career on a couple exceptionally good short stories. Once you start worrying about word-count, you're loving things up. Only add or take away when it makes the story better.
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Jul 21, 2012 01:28
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Anais Nun posted:You're very welcome. I only recently crawled out of the rubble of a second draft myself. Third drafts are much nicer, so you've got that to look forward to. Yeah, second drafts are the toughest. I'm in-between, coming from my fairly polished first 2/3 of my novel to the rough last third. I stalled out and had to rewrite the beginning and middle over twice because the foundation was lacking, the pacing off, and the tone uneven. So, I left what I thought was a solid final act until later. I'm going through it now, and holy poo poo is it badly written. Looking at first draft material after beating away at more polished drafts is loving painful. I just rewrote an entire chapter. None of the events changed significantly (this time), but it was barely sketched out. I added 1500 words, and probably entirely rewrote the other 3000 in the process. The next chapter isn't much better. The events are all there, but need to be organized into a logical series. Every paragraph is a jumbled mess of poo poo half-said. That's first drafts for you. Learn to love pain.
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Jul 22, 2012 00:48
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Someone asked me about sniper duels in the old thread. I posted one I wrote today in the Fiction Farm if anyone wants to check it out.
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Jul 22, 2012 06:36
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Wolfsforza posted:Does anyone know what the ideal novel word counts are for submission to agents and publishers? I know a novel is usually defined as at least 80K words, but not sure how much it damages your chances going under. First, word count is not a hard and fast rule. You can get published if your novel is above or below the "acceptable" word count, but agents tend to look for their standard for first-time novelists. Different genres often have different word count expectations: Novella under 65,000 Young readers (7-9) 10,000 - 15,000 Middle readers (10-13) ~30,500 Adult (General standard word count to qualify as a novel) 65,000+ Sci-Fi 65,000+ Mystery 65,000 - 90,000 Romance 65,000-85,000 Suspense 70,000 - 90,000 General Fiction 85,000 - 100,000 Thriller 85,000 - 100,000 Fantasy 80,000 - 120,000 History 100,000 - 120,000 Mainstream Literature 100,000 - 125,000
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Jul 22, 2012 08:01
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Where are you getting these numbers from? I remember one editor's advice (paraphrased): "Don't worry about it. We can always change the typesetting to get 200 pages out of it." Maybe genre writing has stricter rules. But I think of all an editor's considerations, wordcount is low down the list.
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Jul 23, 2012 10:24
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Adding a post to this thread because I've read so much of the last one and all of this one. I'm a short story writer/blogger. This year I've spent most of my words into the potential soggy kleenex that is my first full-length manuscript. I'm ~35k in and having fun, yet constantly convincing myself that everything is terrible and I should go back to cereal reviews. To break up the monotony I recently entered Lit Reactor's Horror Story comp with a short story I came up with and pumped out in just over a week. Problem was I was in novel mode and ended up writing 5k for a comp that limited you to 4k. The point of this info dump is, I learned so much about what is superfluous in my writing when I was forced to cut out 20% of my story. If you ever want to find out how much of your story is fluff I highly recommend you make a copy of a chapter and then make it your mission to strip out 20% of the word count without losing the overall narrative or characterisation. You'll probably feel like crying for a lot of it, but for me at least it gave me an unexpected perspective on word economy. ... And I'm writing this up procrastinating going back to my novel after a week of short story-ing.
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Jul 23, 2012 12:12
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Baggy_Brad posted:Adding a post to this thread because I've read so much of the last one and all of this one. Don't give up. It's a hard hurdle to get over, and the truth is it probably is terrible from a prose perspective. But the real point of first drafts for long-form stories (be they novel or whatever else) is to get the story down and see if the narrative is coherent and interesting. In my past, I was a slave to the awful habit of editing as I wrote. With short stories that was never a big deal because it was still pretty easy to get something out in 1-2 weeks without losing too much of the story. But with novels you simply can't do that. It'll take you years to finish and the story will actually be less coherent because of how meticulous and anal you were with making sure everything read right. You'd probably burn out before you finished it anyway. So writing my own first novel was a great exercise in turning the editor in me off and the storyteller on. Yeah, in the end the first draft was a jumbled mess of misspelled words, run-on sentences and cliched, boring descriptions. But the story was still there and just having that turn out right was enough to make me want to continue on to subsequent drafts (with a little help and advice from the folks in this thread, of course). Hang in there, and don't let the fear of your draft's alleged terribleness block you from getting it done. The feeling of actually finishing a full-length manuscript is about as close to divine as you can get on this earth. Cpt. Mahatma Gandhi fucked around with this message at 15:14 on Jul 23, 2012 |
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Jul 23, 2012 15:11
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One of the easiest things to do with a short story is wait to hit that final draft or revision for a few weeks while you work on something else. At least for me, it no longer feels like I wrote it and it's easier to chop it up and rework it. If I need motivation while working on a longer work I open up the 500,000 word novel I wrote when I was fourteen, pick a random page, and start reading. Usually I feel better in a few minutes, given that my current work is no longer anywhere near that terrible.
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Jul 23, 2012 18:10
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Cpt. Mahatma Gandhi posted:Don't give up. It's a hard hurdle to get over, and the truth is it probably is terrible from a prose perspective. But the real point of first drafts for long-form stories (be they novel or whatever else) is to get the story down and see if the narrative is coherent and interesting. It's also the best time to get to know your characters. I let mine bullshit to each other for pages, and ramble off to do things that are completely irrelevant to the plot. I cut all that crap, sometimes tearing it out while still writing the first draft because it's derailed the story, but it was valuable writing time nonetheless. I keep that stuff in a backstory file, to remember who they are behind the scenes. While nearing the end of the second draft, I found I cut too much character bullshit near the climax. Focusing on getting the plot moving as fast as possible ended up making it a slog to read. I decided to add some of my character's bullshitting back in, just a tiny dose, to spice up the story. I snip tiny character moments from my bullshit files and weave them back in.
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Jul 23, 2012 21:09
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Baggy_Brad posted:I recently entered Lit Reactor's Horror Story comp Barely related, but is there a thread that tracks story competitions and such?
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Jul 23, 2012 21:13
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Is it mandatory to rewrite the entire novel from scratch for the second draft?
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Jul 25, 2012 06:15
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Nothing is mandatory, but it's probably a good idea. Do you have the first draft done? The first time I ever wrote a novel I rewrote it so heavily it wasn't even really the same thing.
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Jul 25, 2012 06:21
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I've had the first draft done for about a half a year now, and I'm editing it piece by piece, which is, according to a goon, the hard way to do it. [Blah blah blah] so rewriting really sounds like it would be the harder thing to do.
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Jul 25, 2012 06:25
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Rewrites are most useful in the beginning because the approach is an overall one. Is this scene necessary? Is there any way to save it? It's where you make your first decisions regarding the final shape of the story. Think of it like building a house. Your first draft is the blueprint you sketched up while taking a dump, but in the second, you're beginning to lay down the foundation and place structural support for the work. If you gently caress off and start adjusting minor details with a magnifying glass, you could end up wasting a lot of your time. You may not use that lumber or not as much as you planned because the story needs something different, so you've wasted your time (aside from the learning experience) when it comes to actually completing a work. The reason that a rewrite is a good idea for the second draft is because you will be throwing out more effort later on if you find out that poo poo doesn't work. It may sound hard, but writing well is hard.
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Jul 25, 2012 06:37
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My approach is probably terrible. I started out with a general idea sketched out, beginning, end, the character arcs, but I didn't sit down and write a full manuscript as a first draft, and then go back and rewrite everything. EDIT: I have a hard time categorizing whether I'm on a first draft or not because my terrible process has had the beginning and the end go through many drafts, while the stuff in-between is only on the first draft. While that has made the start and ending better, the middle is going to be of lesser quality. (end of edit) I kept getting caught on little things that bugged me or didn't seem right, and it's been a constant process of refining rough ideas into better ones, finding story problems and fixing them before I get to the part where I write them down in full detail. I suppose the analogy of the sculptor and block of marble is most appropriate. I can see the shape of the story, but I had not done enough work with my chisel. But when I wanted the statue to change positions, I did not have to order a whole new block of marble and could work with the partly-carved piece. Now that I am writing everything down in detail, all the work I've done before is making this feel much easier, and I feel more confident in the story. But I don't know - am I still going to have to throw everything out at the end just because? Stabbey_the_Clown fucked around with this message at 03:11 on Jul 26, 2012 |
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Jul 25, 2012 18:35
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If you've outlined during (or before) the first draft, your second will be a little easier. You'll still need to take a good look at your first draft, so my following advice is for both plotters and pantsers.CantDecideOnAName posted:Is it mandatory to rewrite the entire novel from scratch for the second draft? Rewriting is necessary—from scratch isn't. That's a matter of preference. I only do a blank page rewrite (of select scenes/chapters) if something's really not working, because it'll help me find another direction. Otherwise, the rewrite is rearranging, cutting, adding, and ironing out inconsistencies. When I rewrite, I mostly do it overtop the bones in the rough draft. Some people prefer to do it side-by-side looking at the original as a reference. I write new scenes on a blank page, then decide where they fit, or what I need to change to make them fit. If you're writing overtop, you'll probably do some editing along the way, particularly if nothing you wrote makes sense. That's ok, just don't get caught up in polishing every word, and focus on making the story flow in a logical direction. Remind yourself the words will get looked over again on the next pass and move on once the story is tightened up. You can trick your brain into thinking it's not as hard as it is by breaking it down into steps. First, read your whole story. Put it in a format like paper, pdf, ebook, something you can only make notes on. Change up the font (I pretty it up so it looks like a published book). The trick is to get out of writing mode completely for a moment to take a look at the big picture. Try to run through the whole thing with a readerly eye. Don't worry about bad prose. Look for poo poo that doesn't make sense, scribble it down, and keep reading. Keep the pace in the back of your head. If you feel like it's a slog, mark the passages your eyes glaze over. If shits flying by too fast, note that too. So, you got your basic notes. If you're a discovery writer, now is the time to plot. If you're an outliner, now is the time to look back at new things you've discovered along the way and adjust accordingly. Here's some suggestions I've picked up on plotting and tried out: Write out your scenes on index cards (real or in Scrivener), a brief synopsis. Then make notes on the back of the card (Document Notes in Scrivener). Here's points I cover on the back of mine: First Draft (if you didn't cover these in the first draft, look at them now). Purpose - What are you trying to accomplish in this scene? Tone - Writing down the general tone I'm going for helps me see if I'm sticking to it, or veering off in another direction (that can either be a good thing or not). Conflicts/Motivations - Identify what your characters want and what/who is holding them back. Do this for all named characters in the scene, not just the main ones. If you think it'll help bring more life to your scene, do this for unnamed ones as well like "cabbie" or "waitress." I tend to make that stuff up as I go along and keep it in the back of my head as I write (waitress has had a long day and her feet are killing her, protagonist has walked in ten minutes before closing, etc.) Identify subtext and make sure it's clear without turning it into text-text. Details - Stuff you need to keep track of: Did you wound your character? Does it have an impact on subsequent scenes? Is someone carrying something important? Did they lose it? etc. Second Draft (you don't want to inspect these until after you've written the first draft). Tension - Rating from 1-10 Theme - Is there a general theme coming out of this story? You can pick up a pattern by trying to find them in each scene. Decide which ones are the most important and if you need to strengthen them. Concerns - Identify anything you missed or are unsure about. Once that's all down, take a look at your tension. Identify which parts are scene or sequel. On a larger scale you might have whole scenes acting as either scene or sequel. The scene is upping the tension, the sequel is releasing it to give the reader a little breather. Plot the tension on a curve and look at the story's overall shape. It should generally be rising up to the climax. I also make sure the novel's mid-point has a smaller climax. If you have a few outliers, a big drop, or a long flat line, examine those because they might be killing your story's pace. You can break it down like this: Beginning - Either the inciting incident has taken place before the story starts, or it happens at the 25% mark. In either case, something has to happen to kick off the plot at the 25% mark. Spend the first 25% building a foundation. Middle - This is half your whole book, and where it most often falls flat. Breaking it into two halves can help you drive the plot. Make something happen at the 50% mark. Give it some kind of turning point. Ending - Your climax and resolution. Your story's events are leading up to something big at the 75% mark. Then take the last 25% to resolve it. The resolution is called falling action for a reason. This is because you're not spending 25% of the book having your characters reflect on what happened, you're spending it making them do something to resolve the plot. For example, if finding out who done it is the climax, then catching the murderer is the resolution. If your detective is chasing him down in a car, that's the falling action, not the climax. Some people confuse the two. After examining your story's pace, decide where poo poo doesn't fit. Don't worry about the sequence of events. If you find yourself thinking, "I can't change this stuff because that's how it happens" slap yourself. It's a story. You're making it all up anyway. Can you cut, rearrange, or rewrite events so the pace works better? Massage the details to keep them internally consistent afterwards. While you're doing this, remember your scene's purpose. Is it pulling its weight? Does it reveal character and/or advance the plot? How does it tie into the theme? If you didn't discover who your character was until later in the book, rewrite to frontload more character details in the beginning. Character is your hook, how you connect with the readers. Don't make us wait as long as it took you to figure it out. Go back and make sure we have some reason to care about your main character on page one. Next, go over your tone. Is it consistent? Are any tonal shifts on purpose, or are you going to jolt the reader out of the story because of an accidental slip? I discovered the importance of these points while rewriting my own novel. Is there anything else you guys have found makes or breaks your second draft? Edit: I've also edited my first post after the OP to add some stuff to the "Show Don't Tell" discussion. Stuporstar fucked around with this message at 22:09 on Jul 25, 2012 |
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Jul 25, 2012 20:27
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So everyone was talking about word oval office, and I posted that sniper duel thing over in Fiction Farm, and it was supposed to be exactly 563 because that's what Nautatrolus Rex specified in his OP, and then when I was talking to Nautatrolus privately, he was yelling at me cuz it was only 553. I felt very embarrassed and  but then I looked into it and realized Scrivener and Word do their word oval office differently and the problem was that Scrivener cunts hyphenated compound-words as two words in the word oval office, where Word cunts them as only one word for the word oval office. What do you guys think? Personally I'm not sure but I plan on using no hyphens and instead keeping the two words separate or putting them together in a portmanteau, because I want never again to have the wrong word oval office. We all know how important the Word oval office is.
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Jul 26, 2012 02:11
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Do you guys have some sort of IRC channel where you put each up to this poo poo?
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Jul 26, 2012 04:16
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I just thought I'd mention that when I say edit, I'm pulling out scenes that I've been told are troublesome, just copy-pasting them into a new doc for easy referral, and rewriting those scenes in particular. Is that the wrong way to rewrite? And "scenes and sequels" is the dumbest bloody thing I've ever heard of. There has got to be a better name for those. Goonperson was trying to teach me about them but never made as much sense as "The scene is upping the tension, the sequel is releasing it to give the reader a little breather". That's the only way anyone's explained it that I've actually understood. I don't know if I've been doing that and I didn't know it, or if I haven't been doing it because I'm a moron with "the craft". This is the first time I've ever edited a story. Nothing I've written before has ever been good enough to warrant it--and for all I know, this isn't good enough to warrant it either. I'm not a good judge of whether or not things are objectively good or bad, from what I hear.
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Jul 26, 2012 05:08
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Jonked posted:Do you guys have some sort of IRC channel where you put each up to this poo poo? Sort of. It's more of a secret network of CC posters. CantDecideOnAName posted:I just thought I'd mention that when I say edit, I'm pulling out scenes that I've been told are troublesome, just copy-pasting them into a new doc for easy referral, and rewriting those scenes in particular. Is that the wrong way to rewrite? Really, there's not much we can tell you that we haven't already covered. All this "goonperson says X" stuff doesn't help, so if you post what you're working on (in the Fiction Farm if <500 words or in its own thread if >500 words) we can assist you better.
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Jul 26, 2012 05:35
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| # ? Apr 25, 2024 14:13 |
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All 200+ pages of it?
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Jul 26, 2012 06:11
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