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Anais Nun
Apr 21, 2010

Hot Sauce Batman posted:

I've recently started to really write seriously, and while I have a bunch of ideas that I've been working on for a while, my biggest hurdle is first paragraph or two. Should I just not worry about the opening until after the first draft? Or start the story in the middle and go back to the beginning when it hits me?

First pages are notoriously difficult to get right. Don't worry about it. Definitely don't worry about it until you have a first draft. In my experience second drafts are so dissimilar from the first that you'll need a whole new beginning anyway, so start whereever you like. You can always come back to the beginning. Nothing is written in blood. It can all be changed.

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Anais Nun
Apr 21, 2010

Cpt. Mahatma Gandhi posted:

Since you brought up "second draft", I feel this is as good a time as any to ask the question that's been weighing on my mind recently.

How do you all approach second drafts? Do you edit your manuscript with a pen and then insert the edits you've made into your word processor of choice? Do you rewrite some of it or most of it? Do you simply put your manuscript down and start right from page 1 and completely write the story or novel again from scratch?

I ask because I finished my first ever first draft of a novel in April and, after taking a couple months off to not look at or think about it, started editing with a pen and notepad. I've also started returning to the manuscript on the computer and typing my edits in. So far it has worked okay, but at times it also feels like I'm shortchanging myself because I have some big, sweeping changes to the story I want to implement. Right now, I'm thinking I could correct all the grammatical & legibility errors to form a "draft 1.5" and then insert the big story changes to round out the second draft.

Obviously I realize a second draft would not mark the end of the editing process, so I'm not asking how to turn my lovely first draft into a golden second. Drafts and edits will surely continue after the second is done. I'm more looking for a little advice on how some of you go about transitioning from first to second drafts, especially with regards to novels. After all, I've never actually been in this position before :shobon:

I find it easier not to worry too much about grammar and legibility in the second draft because my first drafts are always such a total mess. The second draft should really be about fixing the biggest issues with your novel. If you want to cut out a character or a plot thread this is the time to do it. If you want to insert a new plot twist or take one out then now's your opportunity.

This isn't the time for delicate operations like making sure the rhythm of a paragraph is pleasing or whether a line of dialogue rings true - this is heavy duty editing. Take a sledgehammer to it and smash the poo poo out of it.

Do the big structural edits on that first pass, then deal with the smaller things on the next pass - checking character consistency or flow between scenes. Once you're fairly happy with the big things then you can do a dialogue edit or a grammar edit, or a punctuation pass.

Obviously you're going to spot dialogue nasties, ropey grammar and inconsistencies on your first massive draftmangling edit, but don't worry about them. Make a note of them, but if it's going to take you more than five minutes to fix them then carry on with what you were doing. You can fix them in the next editing pass.

Second drafts can be overwhelming. They're the moment you realise exactly how much work you have to do - and it's a lot. I find breaking it down into layered edits makes it seem (slightly) less terrifying.

Anais Nun
Apr 21, 2010

Cpt. Mahatma Gandhi posted:

Thanks, this is super helpful and cuts right into the anxiety I was having about shortchanging myself during the editing process. I've always been a stickler for grammar and making sure paragraphs flow into one another, so it'll be a bit of a challenge to force myself not to do that right from the get go. Still, I'm willing to give it a shot.

The anxiety will probably never leave you. :) That's just the nature of second drafts. They are horrible, perhaps because you're taking everything you've already done, every word you wrung out of your skull on those slow days when it feels like pulling teeth, and now you're taking a fireaxe to them. You're not just murdering your darlings - you're dismembering them and going full-on Texas Chainsaw Massacre with the bits.

I always find it helps if you have time to let your first draft sit for a while - a couple of weeks, months if you have them. Go and work on something fresh. Then come back to your first draft and you'll be amazed to find the difference that a little distance can make. It's not such a wrench to eviscerate the bugger. Instead you feel more as though you're performing necessary surgery.

Anais Nun
Apr 21, 2010

Cpt. Mahatma Gandhi posted:

Yeah, I let it sit in my desk drawer for almost two months before I took it back out and read through it the first time. Then I started getting really edit-heavy with the grammar and stuff which was when I started to feel like I was really moving off-base.

Thanks a ton for your advice, it's been super helpful. I'm going to put it aside for a little bit longer (probably just a couple weeks this time) and return to it with the idea of finding places to improve the story rather than the prose. Considering I want to make some big changes to the story anyway, it's probably best that I take some time to get out of grammar-edit mode before diving right back in.

You're very welcome. I only recently crawled out of the rubble of a second draft myself. Third drafts are much nicer, so you've got that to look forward to.

Anais Nun
Apr 21, 2010

Wolfsforza posted:

I have a "What genre am I?" question.

I've been calling my novel a western when I describe it to others, but I'm almost ready to start submitting it to agents and publishers and I'm wondering if I shouldn't reconsider historical fiction or YA. About 1/3rd takes place on the frontier, but the last 2/3rds takes place in St. Louis, on a Mississippi riverboat and in Baton Rouge, so by the definitions I found it could be called historical fiction. But it does feature gunfights, safecracking and chases, which seem to fit more in a western. Also, one of the two POV characters is a 16 year old girl, which would seem to qualify it as YA. I hadn't written it with YA in mind considering the violence, though.

I don't want to call it something it's not, but my understanding is there's not a huge market for westerns and I haven't found a whole lot of agents that represent westerns.

Yeah, Westerns are pretty far down the foodchain. They're sort of the grandpa equivalent of those pink, clinch-cover romances that grandma used to love. Personally I would definitely avoid pitching to agents as a Western - if it's set in the past it's historical fiction. I don't know about the YA thing but if you can get in on that gravy train, give it a shot.

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