|
Pompous Rhombus posted:Does anyone have recommendations for a book (or something online, or whatever) that has pointers for getting the most out of reading fiction, from the perspective of someone looking to learn to become a better writer themselves? Basically, tips on what makes good stories/characters/etc work and what makes others fail. It's something I do a bit of on my own in a journal, but it's far from comprehensive. One book that for better or worse, has forever changed how I react to novels is How Not to Write a Novel (Amazon Link). It points out 200 common mistakes in a hilarious way. You'll want to read this book several times even if you don't need to. It brings me great joy to read published novels and spot a few of the gems that are warned against.
|
#
¿
Jul 16, 2012 03:53
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ Apr 16, 2024 07:31 |
|
|
That's a really great post, Mike Works. It looks like it could be really helpful to authors. It might be a bit much to post a standard thread and ask people to answer all those questions. Especially since most threads here are for novel snippets, and that looks like it's geared towards short stories. It's hard to say if there's enough interest to justify a general workshopping thread, though.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 16, 2012 22:13
|
|
|
ItalicSquirrels posted:For the opening of my story, the two main characters are separate and don't even know the other one exists. They're going to meet before the end of the first chapter. What I'm trying to do is give a couple paragraphs for one and a couple paragraphs for the other until they quite literally run into each other, dovetailing their individual plot threads into one. At that point I will probably do much longer sections before transitioning between them. I'm doing something similar, but I'm giving them each their own chapter. You might want to consider longer sections or separate chapters instead of just one or two paragraphs, though. "How Not to Write a Novel" suggests that ping-ponging between perspectives every 2 paragraphs could be confusing and off-putting to the reader. Alternating between viewpoints in a chapter can be done, but you should make sure that the transition is clear (doubly so if you're using first-person narration). Perhaps a trio of hash marks or something to indicate a scene switch. Never switch perspective mid-paragraph, and don't bounce back and forth between two characters in the same scene. EDIT: Unless you're using an omniscient narrator (thanks for reminding me, Stuporstar). If you're in a close third-person perspective and want to know what both Joe and Alicia are thinking in the same scene, you should pick one for now, and later on you can get the perspective of the other. Cpt. Mahatma Gandhi posted:He could even take the Bret Easton Ellis approach and literally just put the character's name right at the beginning of each transition a la Rules of Attraction. Sure, that's one thing I'm considering using in the chapter names, but even doing that might aggravate readers if he's switching perspectives every 1-3 paragraphs. Stabbey_the_Clown fucked around with this message at 17:00 on Jul 19, 2012 |
|
#
¿
Jul 18, 2012 14:52
|
|
|
My approach is probably terrible. I started out with a general idea sketched out, beginning, end, the character arcs, but I didn't sit down and write a full manuscript as a first draft, and then go back and rewrite everything. EDIT: I have a hard time categorizing whether I'm on a first draft or not because my terrible process has had the beginning and the end go through many drafts, while the stuff in-between is only on the first draft. While that has made the start and ending better, the middle is going to be of lesser quality. (end of edit) I kept getting caught on little things that bugged me or didn't seem right, and it's been a constant process of refining rough ideas into better ones, finding story problems and fixing them before I get to the part where I write them down in full detail. I suppose the analogy of the sculptor and block of marble is most appropriate. I can see the shape of the story, but I had not done enough work with my chisel. But when I wanted the statue to change positions, I did not have to order a whole new block of marble and could work with the partly-carved piece. Now that I am writing everything down in detail, all the work I've done before is making this feel much easier, and I feel more confident in the story. But I don't know - am I still going to have to throw everything out at the end just because? Stabbey_the_Clown fucked around with this message at 03:11 on Jul 26, 2012 |
|
#
¿
Jul 25, 2012 18:35
|
|
|
Good question, Pimpmust. My process is a mixture of outline and discovery. If I had to pick one, though, I would fall more under the outliner category. I don't think I can start to write a story without some idea how it ends, or what I want to say. I had an idea for a short story that had some interesting characters, but I couldn't figure out what it would say or how it would end, so I never started it. I just could not start it without having an end in mind. But for a long time, the middle of my project was an unformed vague blob, and I have made dozens of revisions to the beginning and end as I "discovered" an improved idea. Just the other day I "discovered" that if my bad guy's lair was on a boat, it would make a lot of things I want to happen more plausible.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 29, 2012 00:24
|
|
|
What's the best way to introduce characters who have well-used nicknames? I'm planning to have a group of soldiers in a short story. It seems awkward to have something like: "Private Daniel “Dusty” Williams" or "Sergeant Cindy Sanchez - “Brass” to the squad." There is a character coming in who doesn't know everyone, so I could do a round of introductions. Any other ideas or suggestions? EDIT: I could have something like ""Brass, take point." Sergeant Sanchez nodded and clicked the safety off her submachine gun." (Yes I will be changing the names.) FauxCyclops posted:I'm really pretty taken aback here, it seems like there's been some sort of latent undercurrent of irritation with my posts and now I'm being accused of things I didn't even do, or at least wasn't aware I was doing. How did I give the impression that I'm not willing to listen or improve? Seriously, stop posting, right now. Do not even reply to this post. I don't know which sandy vagina gave me this title (almost everyone has thanked me for my feedback), but I resisted the urge to make posts complaining about it. Complaining is not helping your case. Stop complaining and making white-noise posts like "B-b-but my style!" As your title suggests, don't come in and say "I'm publishing my book next week, any feedback? Whoops, too late, I already published it." Stabbey_the_Clown fucked around with this message at 05:18 on Aug 3, 2012 |
|
#
¿
Aug 3, 2012 05:00
|
|
|
Argh, how the hell does one tell one's inner critic to shut the hell up and stop screaming "this poo poo sucks" when I'm trying to write? I cannot stop myself from trying to re-write the opening of my short story a billion times. It's driving me crazy.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 12, 2012 22:57
|
|
|
I realized that one of my characters was a bit too similar to that in another work I'd seen. Part of that was just her appearance, but there were also similarities in backstory, personality, having a special ability, weapon choice... I shared my concerns with someone else who knew the other character as well, and they didn't think it was a big deal, but I was still bothered by it. I took a hard look at the decisions I'd made, and I realized that there was no need for me to write parts of that backstory in the way that I did, and the story would be stronger if I changed that part. I re-wrote the roles of about three characters, and now the remaining similarities don't seem very noticeable. It may not actually be a big deal, ideas can get duplicated. If you're concerned, you might want to take an objective look and think: "Why did I make this choice for my character? Can I get that result by going at it another way?"
|
|
#
¿
Aug 26, 2012 13:29
|
|
|
Ingram posted:How much suspension of belief can I expect to get away with? Considering I'm dealing with science fiction/space stuff that is unexplained. In that case, it sounds fine. It's a science fiction story, so as long as you can come up with an explanation that sounds plausible (and it's entertaining), most people will accept it and go from there. I follow the rule that if I write something that seems hard to swallow for me, why should I expect anyone else to swallow it either? Then I get a migraine trying to think of something that works and isn't stupid. I couldn't think of a scientific way to instantly create an ice dam in a swift-flowing river, so I thought up another idea. That one sadly, looked dumber and dumber the more I thought about it, but eventually I came up with a not-dumb way (to get my characters across but not their pursuers). Stabbey_the_Clown fucked around with this message at 12:08 on Aug 27, 2012 |
|
#
¿
Aug 26, 2012 21:14
|
|
|
Subway Ninja, I'd at least reverse the order of the first sentence, if not cut out the "with detachment" part. I liked the dawning realization that came over me as my initial interpretation that something erotic was happening was revealed to be very incorrect. Overwined posted:Since you guys are into critique mode, maybe you can give me some help. I want to post two drafts of the opening ~500 words of a short story I have finished, but am currently trying to tighten the screws on. You spelled "conversation" as "converstaion" in the first sentence. Currently, the first name appears in paragraph 4, when people are "looking at Brett". Who's Brett? Oh, the viewpoint guy. You should probably mention the name of the viewpoint character earlier. If the blonde comes back into the plot later, you might want to give her a name, or if Brett didn't bother to get her name, mention that instead, that tells us something about Brett's character. I suppose it doesn't matter too much. Name or not, either way you'll probably have to remind the reader where she first appeared. My first instinct was to say that the first approach was better than starting out with a flashback, but ultrachrist put it better. I agree with him that there needs to be a better hook, I didn't find either opening to be that interesting. Brett being a womanizing shitheap came across clearly, but I didn't see any positive or interesting qualities that would make me want to keep reading despite the obvious negative ones.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 8, 2012 00:16
|
|
|
Dr. Kloctopussy posted:Here's what you need to do: Read one novel every week, start to finish, for the next year. You must finish every one, even if you don't like it (life is hard, sorry). I know I certainly would like to see the books others recommend to read. I would find that helpful, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 9, 2012 13:48
|
|
|
CB_Tube_Knight posted:Question to all of you: How do you feel about low work magic systems? I ask because I was listening to "I Should Be Writing" and Lou Anders was on talking about how there's a growing trend in the US where a character doesn't have to put any time studying or learning into their power, they just have to believe that they can do it or believe in themselves and it works. Approach it like every other aspect of world-building. By that I mean, think about how it works and makes sense, and how it affects other aspects of the world. Can anyone use those powers or only a limited set of people use them? Why? Are there any limits? What and Why? If you answer the questions and it makes logical sense then it shouldn't end up being a lot different than working with a more ordered system of magic. The Belgariad by David Eddings used a system like this, and that worked pretty well. He handled the super-power potential usually by saying that the heroes didn't want to use the power because doing anything really spectacular with it was "noisy" and the enemy spellcasters could "hear" it and use it to find them, send armies and other nasty things their way.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 24, 2012 22:56
|
|
|
All this talk about fan fiction reminds me of how I got into writing. Funny enough, I hadn't really done any creative writing at all, until I was working on an a Let's Play of Divine Divinity. The thing about that game is that it starts out VERY slowly - the main plot doesn't even start for several hours, but the early parts couldn't be skipped over because later on some characters from the first village become important to the main plot, and there was a very long dungeon. If I tried to stick to just dry informative stuff, I'd have run out of things to talk about quickly. That's when I got the idea to staple on a story of my own to the game's narrative - not to interfere with it, but to blend as seamlessly as I could. I wanted to answer some questions that the game's story left open, and add in even more dramatic impact than what the main story already had. The main character by default could be one of several generic classes, and they literally had no past, no default name, and no character except the occasional sarcastic jab, so I was basically creating him from nothing. Even though I was setting the story in a world someone else created, and was blending my story to fill in the holes there with more detail, I still feel like I created something unique. I didn't just take the first terrible drafts I wrote, I asked others for feedback and harsh criticism, I bought a book on writing to improve the craft. It was quite a lot of fun to write, and it also taught me how to use Photoshop better so I could provide unique screenshots to support the story. I re-read it recently, I still see I made a lot of stylistic mistakes, but overall, I still like how well it worked. I don't like to call what I did "fan fiction" because of all the negative connotations it brings to mind, but because of that LP, I'm now working on my own settings and worlds.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 2, 2013 13:41
|
|
|
Chillmatic posted:Not to restart the "infinite verb phrase" debate again, but in addition to the problems you described, the trouble with having sentences like: I was following that advice maybe a bit too strictly, and some critique I got for my CC contest entry noted that I kept starting sentences with "He" or "Rick". If I establish the actor first, then is it okay to change it up in different sentences of the paragraph?
|
|
#
¿
Jan 6, 2013 16:36
|
|
|
change my name posted:I just finished a short story that I thought turned out really well, but the question of "city-specific" references kept coming up. Since I live in nyc I thought they'd be nice touches, but won't this kind of pigeonhole me down the line? (IE remaining consistent with the level of specificity, even if the characters need to go somewhere/do something I don't know a lot about) I don't think it's a big deal to worry about. If you know an area, specific references are a big plus. If not, then well, you should do some research anyway. You're not expected to know every little detail of every place you might want to take your characters, but yeah, you should at least put in some effort to try and make it as accurate as you can. * * * Minor silly question, in the world I'm building, the country which is a rough equivalent to China is called Xiang (pronounced ecks-AYE-eng [which is often mangled into sigh-eng.]) I'm trying to figure out which of these sounds better as a way to refer to someone from there: "You want the stall past the Xianese fish merchant." "You want the stall past the Xiangi fish merchant." "You want the stall past the Xianian fish merchant." Stabbey_the_Clown fucked around with this message at 06:23 on Jan 7, 2013 |
|
#
¿
Jan 7, 2013 06:18
|
|
|
Okay, thanks for the helpful notes. I guess even if it's not actually Earth, it's still a good idea to make my analogues stick as closely as possible to the real thing. Since it isn't on Earth, I'm not sure I want to use actual Chinese words, but on the other hand, I don't want to just completely make up a language. I'll have to but a lot more thought into what I want to do. I'll do some research and find a better name. I don't care what letter it starts with, it's not an "X is cool" thing. That place isn't important in the story, it's just background stuff to suggest a larger world. Stabbey_the_Clown fucked around with this message at 19:24 on Jan 7, 2013 |
|
#
¿
Jan 7, 2013 14:10
|
|
|
I've got a little reveal that sounds a bit clunky. Original Max raced down the hallway, a few wisps of white smoke trailing in his wake. I’m so glad the smoke bomb worked. This is first sentence of a new chapter, and the first time that I've revealed that Max had a smoke bomb - I was deliberately keeping that from the reader to make them wonder what his plan was. It sounds a little clunky, though. I've got a couple variations, but I'm not sure which is better. Max raced down the hallway. White wisps of smoke from his smoke bomb left a brief trail in his wake. I’m so glad that worked. Max raced down the hallway, trailing white smoke behind him. This was too dangerous. If that smoke bomb hadn't worked... well, I'm just glad it did.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 10, 2013 19:35
|
|
|
Oh, for the record, I've decided to change the name of Xiang to Tsheng (which, if I'm understanding the Mandarin pronunciation guide correctly, would be pronounced "Tshung").sebmojo posted:This is an excellent rule. Weirdly, I first read it in a Dilbert book. Ha ha, me too. I've got that book, and try and keep that in mind when writing dialogue. quote:Edit: ^Stabbey, I'd give him a sudden flash of some horrible consequence of 'it' not working. As it is it's way too abstract. I didn't include the next sentence, which was about the horrible consequence - the smoke bomb worked, but he didn't expect the people he used it on to start shooting their guns, which is about to attract a whole lot of guards. (And also later on when he needs the second smoke bomb to work, it does not.) EDIT: I mis-read what you said. The horrible consequence of it not working was him getting his throat cut by the angry criminals. I can add that in, sure. quote:However I worry you're overusing interior monologue, based on tis and the other excerpt I looked at (which was improved, btw, sorry for not replying to your pm) In a couple of chapters, it won't just be interior monologue, but occasionally interior DIALOGUE as well, so again, I have to keep some of the exact thoughts stuff. I could convert a lot of interior monologue (replace I with he and such), but to me, that seems like it's keeping the reader an extra step away from connecting with the character. It makes the piece seem more impersonal and feel more rushed. I guess I can do that if I work harder on it, though: Here's that sentence which should convey Max's thoughts without direct inner monologue. Max raced down the hallway, trailing white smoke behind him. This was more dangerous than he'd planned. If that smoke bomb hadn't worked, the gang would have cut his throat then and there. That would have been a terrible waste of the expensive Tshengi rug. I'm not sure how much of the inner dialogue I should convert, but after I finish my "10% Solution" pass on the chapter, I'll make a thread for it. Stabbey_the_Clown fucked around with this message at 04:53 on Jan 11, 2013 |
|
#
¿
Jan 11, 2013 04:50
|
|
|
You don't need action, no. You can write a gripping tale without any bullets, bombs or brawls, but the conflict has to be important enough to engage the reader. The stakes and consequences have to be clear. In the case of hazing, some such consequences might be accidental death or suicide due to humiliation, or students who can't cope might leave the school (that last one is a bit weak though). Those are the kinds of things that might spur arguments, like the uproar over the recent Australian radio DJ prank that made a nurse commit suicide. (The DJ's didn't intend any real harm, should they be held accountable for her death?) How big a cast are we talking about? There's only so many characters a reader can keep track of. You should keep your scope under control. A cast of a dozen major and minor characters, well fleshed out, will probably work better than 3-4 dozen characters who are nothing much more than a name and a line. We don't need to get to know the entire school, nor do we want to. No one will give a poo poo about Bobby One-scene-background-extra. I also don't really understand what you're trying to do with the mysticism factor. Stabbey_the_Clown fucked around with this message at 23:53 on Jan 14, 2013 |
|
#
¿
Jan 14, 2013 23:50
|
|
|
Molly Bloom posted:I'd be interested in hearing how people deal with action scenes. How do you make it readable? Do you block it all out? Post a sample and we'll look it over. It sounds like you're trying to describe two different scenes happening at the same time. I'd probably describe them in short sequential bursts so one part reaches a resting or pausing point, then throw in a "Jack looked over and saw..." if that next part is happening right after, or if it's happening at the same time, maybe use "Meanwhile...", "Simultaneously...", "At the same time..." or something along those lines to signify that you're transitioning from one fight to another. To keep the action readable, try and make the sentences short and efficient. Shorter sentences give the illusion of things happening faster. You shouldn't describe action in the middle of a scene, but try and describe the area a little before the action starts. This might get trickier if your character bursts into a new room and then a fight immediately happens. I've got a sample, which may or may not be very good. It's only one fight, not two happening at once, though. quote:One of the guards came closer, jabbing at the bushes with the rifle’s muzzle. Clearly inexperienced, and not too bright. The other guard was smart enough to stand back, but not smart enough to tell his colleague. If I wanted to add a second fight at the same time there, I might re-write it something like this. But again, I've got a lot to learn about writing action scenes as well. quote:One of the guards came closer, jabbing at the bushes with the rifle’s muzzle. Clearly inexperienced, and not too bright. The other guard was smart enough to stand back, but not smart enough to tell his colleagues. EDIT: Oops, I completely forgot about the third guard after his knee got kicked out. That's what I get for writing an example up in five minutes. So uh... bad example. Stabbey_the_Clown fucked around with this message at 16:31 on Jan 23, 2013 |
|
#
¿
Jan 23, 2013 01:54
|
|
|
DivisionPost posted:I know this isn't Fiction Farm, but would you mind if I critiqued this a little later? If you (or others) prefer I can do it over PM. Go ahead, you can critique it wherever. In this thread might be better since I was offering it as an example, so if it's terrible, it'd be more helpful for Molly. (Honestly, that two-fight version probably isn't that good because I wrote it up in only three minutes.)
|
|
#
¿
Jan 23, 2013 02:10
|
|
|
HiddenGecko posted:I'm on the opposite end though. Don't buy books like this and use them to learn how to write. You have to be far along in your growth as a writer before these kinds of craft books will really do you any good. Especially "paint by the numbers" books that present a railroad of ideas that you just have to follow and produce your book. You're better off spending your time consuming as much fiction as you can. Although, they're not all bad. On Writing by Stephen King is a rare one in that it's truly more about the art of writing and being a professional writer than some "formula for success!" writing guide. So basically, something like this (Building Great Sentences) wouldn't be worth getting either, compared to just reading more?
|
|
#
¿
Jan 23, 2013 17:31
|
|
|
DivisionPost posted:Okay, then here's one schmuck's opinion. The other guard was smart enough to stand back, but not smart enough to tell his colleague (Tell him what?). Tell him not to get that close to an unknown adversary. I thought the context of "the other guard was smart enough to stand back" made that clear, but I guess not. “We won’t warn you again. Come out in five seconds or we’ll shoot!” (Who's saying this?) One of the guards, obviously. They're going to lose this fight and never be seen again, so does it matter which one said it? “Wait. Please don’t hurt me!” Leara said, filling her voice with fear. (I'd find an attributor here that shows that she's filling her voice with fear. Good idea, I can re-write that to be more descriptive. (Internal dialogue should usually be saved for when you need to express something that can't be shown. I guess I'll need to work on that. I'm using a lot of it. Leara hurled the rock (Be sure you've already established the presence of a rock before you refer to it as "the" rock.) Yes, I did that in a sentence before the excerpt started. (How did she get from presumably hiding in the bushes to getting close enough to go for the rifle?) Good point. She grabbed the gun from the guard who was poking the bushes with the gun, but I can add something like "Too late, he snapped his head back when he heard the bush rustling." to indicate movement. She reversed the motion (What motion?) It was just in the previous sentence. Am I really that terrible at painting a picture? She wrenched the gun away from the guard, it was in motion away from the guard, then she thrust it forward. I'll re-write it in more direct and clear terms. (Try personalizing this beat; let's see it from her perspective. That comes right after, but I left it out because the action sequence was over. EDIT: I've re-written the fight scene, but I'd rather not clutter the thread up too much. Stabbey_the_Clown fucked around with this message at 22:24 on Jan 23, 2013 |
|
#
¿
Jan 23, 2013 20:17
|
|
|
I find that the lack of quotation marks just applies a numbing effect on the entire piece. It makes the dialogue, stage direction and description all blend together, and not in a good way. That effect is amplified if you also strip away dialogue tags so you don't know who is talking. For me it does not convey a vast sense of openness just because it is outside. (Would a lack of quotation marks still convey a sense of openness if used between two people in a closet?) EDIT: Unrelated, is a 12,000 word piece too long to be posted in the forum for critique (even offsite on google docs or something)? It was a murder mystery, my entry into the Steam Christmas contest. I could clean it up, but I suspect that just the length alone would discourage anyone from bothering. Stabbey_the_Clown fucked around with this message at 15:28 on Jan 24, 2013 |
|
#
¿
Jan 24, 2013 05:04
|
|
|
budgieinspector posted:I'll just leave this link to Proper Manuscript Format from Stuporstar's excellent Creative Resources thread right here. That's certainly useful. It tells you the reason to use a mark and not an extra blank line - it's so that the break is clearly visible. If an extra empty line is at the top or bottom of a page, it vanishes or is more easily overlooked.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 28, 2013 05:52
|
|
|
I'm working on a story not set on Earth, but I want to show that that world is culturally diverse as well. Would anyone find it distracting to have an line in actual Spanish (despite the no-such-thing-as-earth thing)? Unrelated, is it too cliche to have a scene where people (but no viewpoint characters) make a discovery that's clearly very important, but they speak in a way that exactly what it is they're looking at isn't revealed to the reader? ... I guess I can answer this myself. If I have to make them speak in a way, avoiding the subject in an artificial way to keep the secret, the reader will see how artificial it is and they won't like it.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 31, 2013 01:49
|
|
|
It’s not a big scene set in a "Spanish"-speaking region, it’s just a brief line of a bilingual character dropping into the language of his childhood. It's a hasty prayer no longer than “Gods protect me from evil,” something that would be accompanied by the equivalent of making the sign of the cross. I do have some alternatives. One might be to take that phrase in Spanish, then alter the words slightly, so it looks like slightly twisted Spanish, but that would be a worse idea (and sillier) than just using the straight-up Spanish. In this case, I could probably just get around it by just saying “Diego's eyes were bulging in fear. He uttered a short phase in [language name], drawing a circle around his heart with his finger.” From that and the next character telling him to relax should give the context without explicitly using the other language. I could also just translate the line if I decide that the viewpoint character knows the language. I know that I'll be using that later on at least. What's the formatting convention for that? Is it something like this? "[Where is Maria?]" Don asked. "[Maria is in the library,]" Ted said. Yes, if there's two characters and they both know it, nothing else is needed, but what if they're speaking in front of another character who doesn't know the language? I think I would need some way to indicate which parts the third character can't understand besides repeating "what did she say?" Maxwell Lord posted:The second bit is a puzzler. Maybe they're talking about it but somebody else is present and they don't want them to know too much? Maybe they're paranoid that someone will overhear? The idea of them not being specific because they’re worrying about being overheard is really good, and I actually do have a viewpoint character nearby. I could definitely re-write the scene to have the viewpoint character follow them, but he makes a bit of noise, enough to make them worried about someone overhearing. That will definitely work, thanks. Stabbey_the_Clown fucked around with this message at 05:47 on Jan 31, 2013 |
|
#
¿
Jan 31, 2013 03:55
|
|
|
I'll see about putting a thread up soon, after a I make a couple minor tweaks and trims to some stuff. I did used to have one, but it fell into the archives because I get easily distracted when it comes to writing. I don't do the Thunderdome because I am horrible with short deadlines. I barely made the December CC contest deadline and I had several weeks to write it.Great Rumbler posted:I agree. If you just want to drop in a line from some other language to show the multiculturalism of your characters/world, then just make up some fakes. It won't be any less likely to get the point across and is less likely to confuse/annoy your readers. Okay. It just seemed like a question with a non-obvious answer. quote:I even get a little antsy about using commonly used words that were recently derived from other languages in my own writing. Like "hors d'oeuvre." Just about any native English speaker knows what it means, but it just feels...wrong...to use it in some fantasy world with no connection to the real world. Yeah, that happened to me as well, so much of English is based on words imported or derived from other languages, so should I really be using words derived from Latin in a world where there was no Latin? I decided "screw it, I'll just use English, borrowed words be damned." I would just end up driving myself and the readers nuts if I tried to work around that.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 31, 2013 22:57
|
|
|
Runcible Cat posted:I've got a wonderfully loony Victorian dictionary somewhere, written by a bloke who wanted to purge the English language of foul Latin, so it's made up of alternatives to Latin words using Anglo-Saxon/Germanic roots instead. Thanks for the name. It's certainly an interesting idea, but after taking a look at that, I'm not sure I can use too many words from there. They're just too obscure, and avoiding Latin words completely is not worth confusing the reader - even with obscure words in a modern dictionary.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 4, 2013 23:36
|
|
|
Scrivener's neat, but I discovered an irritating drawback. EDIT: Nevermind. It's a small thing, but it's irritating. Emils katt posted:If I understand you correctly, try selecting some of your text with the right settings and go to format->text->copy ruler (or ctrl+alt+7). Now select your pasted text and click paste ruler (ctrl+alt+8). And that should do it. Oh good, that works! Thanks. Stabbey_the_Clown fucked around with this message at 02:08 on Feb 25, 2013 |
|
#
¿
Feb 24, 2013 23:48
|
|
|
I, unfortunately, end up getting bugged by those kinds of little world-building detail. They get lodged in my head and block my creativity with their insipid nagging until I go look something up to see if it actually does make sense. It's frustrating. Erogenous Beef posted:The real question is, if you need a world that's very realistic and earthlike, then why not just use Earth? There's a ton of bizarre stuff in our backyards, and you get the benefit of real local history and mythology to draw upon, which is often weirder than anything made-up. Your clam-field example could be based off of a Japanese pearl-diving village, or it could be based off a maritime city like Boston or Halifax. What does the story require? That's a good question. I'm working on a story set on not-earth, and I did think about if I could set it on earth. It would be set on a volcanic island nation in the middle of an ocean between two powerful and hostile countries, like say, Hawaii. Could I have used Hawaii? No, I would have had to write up far too much alternate history to get the Earth history to match up with what I need that it wouldn't be any kind of time-saver at all. If I say, used Japan and the United States as the countries fighting over Hawaii, that introduces cultural prejudice into the mix. Western readers will naturally have an ingrained notion of them being "the good guys" and Japan the bad guys (especially given Hawaii's current status as a U.S. state). That is not what I want. If there are no real-world politics or national allegiances that the readers have to overcome, they'll more easily accept two equally bad countries. Stabbey_the_Clown fucked around with this message at 18:39 on Feb 26, 2013 |
|
#
¿
Feb 26, 2013 18:07
|
|
|
I think the inciting incident should happen very close to the start, but that doesn't mean your first paragraph must be your protagonist finding a body in their shower. I think it's okay to let the reader have a few minutes meeting the main character(s), but something interesting should happen before the end of the first chapter (and as close to the start as you can get it).
|
|
#
¿
Mar 19, 2013 15:35
|
|
|
Pladdicus posted:That's the issue I'm running into now, detective stories usually have a lot of nuanced plots and clues and misdirects so I'm concerned about cutting that down and trimming for 3500 words. It may be poor genre, especially for me who's not the most experienced with it, which is pretty much why I chose it in the first place, but I'm starting to think it may be quite doable if I'm smart about my pacing thanks. It's probably hard to do a really good mystery story in only 3500 words. It'll be hard to get in the twists, misdirections and red herrings and foreshadowing that a proper mystery has. I tried my hand at writing one for the Steam goons Christmas giveaway contest, and it came in at about 12,000 words. About 900 words were used to introduce the larger-than-normal supporting cast, so even if I stripped those away it'd be a lot, because I felt that it wouldn't be a proper mystery if I didn't have twists and false leads.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 20, 2013 15:09
|
|
|
Veg posted:Last night I got really inspired out of nowhere to write a short story. I had an idea of what sort of story I'd like to read but this was only a short story so I stole someone elses setting to put it in (in Song of Ice and Fire, not during any set time and the character is noone in particular). I didn't want to have to set up my own backstory for a bit this short. Why are you linking an image instead of posting text? That makes it harder to do the usual forum critique technique of writing comments in-line or beneath-line. It's frowned upon to use another author's setting as a basis for your own work. Among other reasons, it's lazy, and it forces you to try and write in another person's style rather than develop your own. On the piece itself: The stolen setting doesn't seem needed. It's a one-off piece about an almost-dead guy with a few names tossed in for reference. I'll grant you that if you just changed all the names it would still look like a ripoff, so I'm not sure if it's better that you just admitted it's a stolen setting instead of changing some names and pretending it isn't. When you enter a flashback, you are leaving the story that is happening now. In the reader's mind, they're still thinking that the scene which is happening now is the more important one. This case, you don't even ENTER the "now", the reader has no idea what is happening "now" until the 9th paragraph, and then you learn "oh, he's been stabbed with a spear". That's seven paragraphs of a flashback before we know the now, and then it turns out that it was all wasted because this guy is about to die. It only might work as a prologue to set up something, but with the stolen setting you can't even do that. It's not even that interesting a death. If you want to be taken seriously as a writer, you're going to have to put in a smidgen of effort and actually write your own backstory and setting. If you're not going to put in that minimum effort, then why should we put in any effort to help you improve?
|
|
#
¿
May 18, 2013 17:31
|
|
|
Chernabog posted:The reason is because I feel like it is stronger when I say it in second person, as I am basically forcing the reader into the narrative. However, it is based on something that I personally think and feel so starting on second person feels awkward. You can't force a reader into thinking that a story is happening to them. Anything that your narrative does that makes the reader go "I wouldn't do that" will break the spell. You're not fooling the reader. Second-person stories are generally only used in choose-your-own-adventure books.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 14, 2013 19:19
|
|
|
I had problems with inciting incidents as well. I did have one inciting incident early - the betrayal and murder of the main character's parents, but the story I wanted to tell took place 10 years later, which also had an inciting incident as well, but the main character was only in the position to be affected by the second inciting incident because of the first one (he was searching for the reason his parents had been targeted). Starting "as close to the end as possible" would mean starting just before the second inciting incident, but because the details and motives behind first one were important to the overall story, that story would also have to be told in some detail. My choice seemed to be either to tell the first inciting incident in flashbacks, or start the story from before the first inciting incident. I chose the latter, starting 10 years before the main story so I could give the details I needed without using flashbacks (and removing suspense).
|
|
#
¿
Sep 28, 2013 15:08
|
|
|
TheRamblingSoul posted:That being said, my question is: How should a first-person narrator "talk" to the reader while also describing past events? quote:I'm a little worried I might confuse the reader trying to both talk to the audience in the present-tense but also recall experiences in the past as he narrates. I don't think it's that big a departure from normal first-person writing. I opened the door to see Ricky there. I could tell from his grin that he had another one of his plans. I hadn't learned yet that Ricky's plans always spelled trouble. I can't believe I was so stupid back then. "Ricky!" I said. "What's going on?" He smirked. "I know where we can get a big score all for ourselves. Big enough to get us out of this town." That was enough to get me onboard, no questions asked. quote:Should I forgo quotation marks when the narrator is commenting directly to the reader and save it for actual spoken dialogue that takes place in the past? Yes. In first person, all things not in quotes are automatically taken as addressing the reader. Adding quotation marks for lines directed to the audience and not to a person in the scene is actually more confusing than leaving them out. Just have your first line as: You wouldn't blame me for making a mistake, would you? Stabbey_the_Clown fucked around with this message at 17:38 on Nov 12, 2013 |
|
#
¿
Nov 12, 2013 17:35
|
|
|
Erogenous Beef posted:(Character) wants (a thing). (Character) cannot have (a thing) because of (a reason - preferably a character trait or flaw). Ultimately, (character) (does/does not) get (a thing), because (character) grappled with (reason/trait/flaw) and (made a choice/decision) which led to (victory/downfall). That little bolded bit there made me realize something. Until now, I thought it was fine that the obstacle my main character struggled with was a person. Reading that made me go "wait, it's supposed to be a character flaw? So what's my guy's flaw?" It was actually obvious: my main character knew that the obstacle guy had the information he wanted more than anything, but he was too scared to confront him. He'd been running away, fruitlessly trying to find another way for years. Running away, hiding, avoiding confrontation. That was his flaw, and my character was already built around that and having to overcome it... I just hadn't quite made that realization until that little piece of advice from this thread.  Does that make sense? This link made me decide to ditch a short, but ultimately unnecessary digression that revealed part of my main character's backstory. I can probably get across what I want with just a sentence or two instead of a chapter or two. Thanks, thread! Stabbey_the_Clown fucked around with this message at 23:45 on Feb 15, 2014 |
|
#
¿
Feb 15, 2014 21:35
|
|
|
Yeah, if you've got inspiration for Book 2, then write down notes - scenes, maybe some bits of dialogue, maybe even a broad outline of it if you have enough. Obviously you are going to have to finish the first book, but if it's at all reasonable, don't let ideas drift away just to force yourself to work on the last parts of Book 1.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 27, 2014 00:59
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ Apr 16, 2024 07:31 |
|
|
Martello posted:I also caution against the idea of "rules." Whether it's magic or advanced technology that may as well be magic, it should work for the story, not the other way around. If you come up with some spergy D&D ruleset for your magitech, you'll just be limiting yourself. It's your drat story, if you suddenly decide that your cyberwizards can time travel, then by god they should be able to time travel! But rules are in service of the story. Even if they're unspoken in the story itself, I'm sure that the author has some kind of of idea what their protagonists and antagonists can do in the world. Rules that people have to follow shape them, and make them work with the tools they have. I think that can lead to better results than writing "suddenly, Bob could fly" out of nowhere on page 215, when up until now, Bob has been a perfectly ordinary plumber.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 6, 2014 17:01
|
|