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BreakAtmo
May 16, 2009



SUPER NEAT TOY posted:

Why are people really even trying to apply the canon to this MP anyway? I never thought there was an elite squad of pink geth and Voluses running around doing Specter work, I don't see what adding Prometheans would have anything to do with anything.

I mean really if you look at it why the hell would a squad of four people running around on the same loving rooftop cursing at each other ever be canonical?

It's specifically stated that all the races of the galaxy are fighting against the Reapers all across the Milky Way. Having Protheans in MP when they're so extinct that a large part of Javik's personality and story is based on him being the last one is an order of magnitude more lore-breaking than pink geth. Like I said, if an addition of Protheans came with a DLC featuring the discovery of a bunch of Protheans and actually dealt with this highly important event, especially in regards to Javik, that would be fine. But the MP is at least supposed to broadly match the canon (being able to import quarians or geth into playthroughs where they're extinct aside). You can't have completely flagrant lore-breaking, or you have Javik's whole personality revolving around being the final Prothean when they're fightin' Reapers 'round the galaxy.

Also, is having Protheans in MP really all that important? What would they add? They have no special abilities (Javik's unique move was Dark Channel, now seen used by asari and humans), and in terms of mobility and melee I don't see them as being much different from humans or turians - they aren't especially light/speedy (like drell) or slow and powerful (like krogan), nor do they have a major gameplay-altering size difference like the volus. It would pretty much be a visual change, with no potential for unique gameplay.

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Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

no user serviceable parts inside



Nap Ghost

exquisite tea posted:

If the multiplayer was truly linked to SP then my expansive fleet of superhuman promoted N7 troops would have blown the Reapers out of the sky within the opening minutes of ME3.

Co-op single player mission:

"A Reaper ambush cut off a key Alliance military unit's escape route. We need you to locate any remaining survivors and get them safely back to the extraction zone"

*N7 Slayer/Fury/Destroyer/Paladin squad carves their way through a bunch of Platinum waves, locates Commander Shepard curled up crying in the fetal position*

"Wow commander, tell us again about that time you had to fight two Brutes at once"

Kaizer88
Feb 16, 2011


I think it's good they try to maintain a semblance of lore integrity. The game would be utter poo poo if they listened to every retard who wants "LOL ELCOR DUAL WIELDING HANAR EIGHT WIELDING RIFLES CUZ ITS FUNNY". You can play Garry's mod for that sort of absurdity.

Sarkozymandias
May 25, 2010

THAT'S SYOUS D'RAVEN


But... there's no value in adhering to lore for something as abstract and disconnected from everything else the MP is. Or in general really. MP doesn't really have a story, you just get some numbers to go up in SP when you do it. I haven't even touched SP yet because I haven't finished ME2.

Krogan running around dressed like easter candy hasn't caused the dream to collapse on itself. If we listened to you we wouldn't have playable Volus

Dan Didio
Apr 6, 2009

OMG!! WeareSOawesome!!



I'm going to let you in on a little secret; but there's no value adhering to any lore. Ever. The problem I have with introducing Protheans isn't that it's not canonically possible or it's lore-breaking or whatever, it's that it weakens the story that exists; tonally, emotionally, etc. etc.

The people whose heads are spinning around at the concept of playable volus are crazy people; but even crazy people throw their own poo poo in the right direction twice a day. Or something.

Some people put more stock in the multiplayer as part of the whole experience than others. I don't know.

Dan Didio fucked around with this message at Feb 13, 2013 around 14:43

highmodulus
Feb 16, 2011

Let's go crazy Broadway style!

Most of the ME3 SP is a mess anyway- the slapdash endings ensured that. If Bioware thinks they can make some sweet RealBux from a whole squad of Javiks in MP, we will see it. So yay for greed for once!

A 50S RAYGUN
Aug 21, 2011


I can understand wanting Jarvik (or whatever his dumb name is I hated the SP) to be the only Promethean, I just mean if there are Prometheans in MP I wouldn't really apply it to the overarching ME story because if I did that I would also have to believe there is a Volus named 'Opie the Fat poo poo Lump' somewhere wielding a Claymore and Black Widow with hot pink power armor on. I understand promoting a character or whatever but that always just seemed like a feature they included, I never thought it meant there was some definite bridge between SP and MP lore.

Ephemeron
May 10, 2012

From nothing came teeth.



There's always Major Kirrahe's explanation.

MP 'Protheans' could be genetically modified drells, turians or humans, Javik's clones, or even reverse engineered Collectors.

Of course, if we're going to wage psychological warfare, an even more effective tactic would be to create millions of cloned Shepards...

Dr. Abysmal
Feb 17, 2010

We're all doomed

I wouldn't be mad if Protheans appeared but I think I'd rather see stuff like more salarians before we go into extinct races.

Sarkozymandias
May 25, 2010

THAT'S SYOUS D'RAVEN


Pretend Shepard made a retarded choice and we're on the next cycle where everything is way cooler. Back fill to justify as needed (Javik clone babies??????)

BrianWilly
Apr 24, 2007

Only a Sith deals in absolutes.

BreakAtmo posted:

Also, is having Protheans in MP really all that important? What would they add? They have no special abilities (Javik's unique move was Dark Channel, now seen used by asari and humans), and in terms of mobility and melee I don't see them as being much different from humans or turians - they aren't especially light/speedy (like drell) or slow and powerful (like krogan), nor do they have a major gameplay-altering size difference like the volus. It would pretty much be a visual change, with no potential for unique gameplay.
Seriously, this is the correct answer. What could you possibly want from Protheans in the MP that every single other race hasn't already covered? More eyes? A Jamaican accent?

Kaizer88
Feb 16, 2011


BrianWilly posted:

Seriously, this is the correct answer. What could you possibly want from Protheans in the MP that every single other race hasn't already covered? More eyes? A Jamaican accent?

They'd be able to smell which of the cerberus troops had hooked up with the others through their amazing senses.

Adrian Owlsley
Aug 6, 2010

This galaxy only has room for one karaoke champ.


BrianWilly posted:

Seriously, this is the correct answer. What could you possibly want from Protheans in the MP that every single other race hasn't already covered? More eyes? A Jamaican accent?

Aesthetics are pretty important, you know. If adding protheans doesn't add value for that reason then we could also remove salarians without losing value since they have the same gameplay as quarians, or krogans since they have the same as batarians.

Dan Didio
Apr 6, 2009

OMG!! WeareSOawesome!!



If they speak with the accent, I'm down. The accent was awesome (and not Jamaican, as I recall, I'm pretty sure Ike Amadi is Nigerian) and watching racist idiots stumble over themselves to bemoan how the 'Jamaican accent doesn't make sense'! was hilarious.

BreakAtmo
May 16, 2009



Adrian Owlsley posted:

Aesthetics are pretty important, you know. If adding protheans doesn't add value for that reason then we could also remove salarians without losing value since they have the same gameplay as quarians, or krogans since they have the same as batarians.

The quarians have a specific engineer theme to their movelists even with a Soldier class, and krogans have blood rage as an ability tied to lore that makes them relatively unique. Also, none of the races you mentioned are literally extinct. If you want to flip the bird to any semblance of lore entirely you should have some compelling reason for it. There's nothing special about Protheans in mobility, melee, or power theme senses. Having characters with little gameplay difference is ok when you'd expect them to be there anyway, Protheans do not match that at all.

Crows Turn Off
Jan 7, 2008

turn in your old, worn-out for the war effort

I think it'd be cool if they added a consumable that allowed you to call in support from a non-playable alien. For example, you could unlock "Elcor Support" and use it instead of the missile launcher. You'd use the consumable, and an Elcor would drop in and do some sort of powerful attack, then go away.

It could at least give the non-humanoid aliens something to do in multiplayer.

Dan Didio posted:

If they speak with the accent, I'm down. The accent was awesome (and not Jamaican, as I recall, I'm pretty sure Ike Amadi is Nigerian) and watching racist idiots stumble over themselves to bemoan how the 'Jamaican accent doesn't make sense'! was hilarious.
Honestly, it seemed weird when I first heard about it, but it was totally awesome in the actual game. Javik was the best squad member.

Felinoid
Mar 8, 2009

Marginally better than Shepard's dancing. 2/10


Adrian Owlsley posted:

Aesthetics are pretty important, you know. If adding protheans doesn't add value for that reason then we could also remove salarians without losing value since they have the same gameplay as quarians, or krogans since they have the same as batarians.

Krogans move quite differently from batarians and there's the whole Rage mechanic to be a large difference, but honestly you could remove the salarians and I wouldn't even notice. I never played SalInf, and now the GethInf and Ghost outshine him, and I haven't played my SalEng since the Paladin made him basically obsolete (well, except for 200 waves, for reasons you can probably guess).

moist turtleneck
Jul 17, 2003

Represent.

Dinosaur Gum

Based on this discussion, I think the best bet for the new DLC is the introduction of all types of hats. Krogan Adept with a Native American headdress It doesn't break lore, they just stopped by the hat store at the Citadel.

Der Luftwaffle
Dec 29, 2008


Crows Turn Off posted:

I think it'd be cool if they added a consumable that allowed you to call in support from a non-playable alien. For example, you could unlock "Elcor Support" and use it instead of the missile launcher. You'd use the consumable, and an Elcor would drop in and do some sort of powerful attack, then go away.

Haha this is begging to be made like the CoD killstreak awards - an Elcor with rocket boots dropping in, shooting thanix beams everywhere and then blasting off to his home planet.

It'd be a huge ripoff, but having a gunship fly over and blast targets would be pretty cool, I admit.

Dr. Abysmal
Feb 17, 2010

We're all doomed

Felinoid posted:

Krogans move quite differently from batarians and there's the whole Rage mechanic to be a large difference, but honestly you could remove the salarians and I wouldn't even notice. I never played SalInf, and now the GethInf and Ghost outshine him, and I haven't played my SalEng since the Paladin made him basically obsolete (well, except for 200 waves, for reasons you can probably guess).

Power creep killed the salarians which is all the more reason to put more of them into the game. They're one of the biggest players in the galaxy but they only have two types of soldier, yet volus have four types. Salarian is still my favorite sniper infiltrator though, as I use the geth as a shotgunner and don't play with the Ghost at all because he is so good it's boring.

LogicNinja
Jan 21, 2011

...the blur blurs blurringly across the blurred blur in a blur of blurring blurriness that blurred...


moist turtleneck posted:

Based on this discussion, I think the best bet for the new DLC is the introduction of all types of hats. Krogan Adept with a Native American headdress It doesn't break lore, they just stopped by the hat store at the Citadel.

If it's good enough for TF2, the world's premier military-themed hat simulator...

precision
May 7, 2006

Gonna have me some good friends around
Gonna have me some good times in town


SalEng is no Paladin (who is?) but is still a great class, especially now that Decoy has been nerfed to where you can forget it and max everything else, taking Sniper Rifle Weight Reduction, and you've basically got an InfiGeer (EngeTrator?)

Where are the DLC rumors coming from and how substantial are they? I want a reason to play this some more because as it stands I've barely even used the latest classes, which is a shame because VolGuard is awesome. Just gimme some new maps or something.

Or just somehow get pubbies to quit picking the same 3 maps. Nobody ever runs Goddess and that's probably my favorite map.

Cheap Vodka
Nov 4, 2008

COMPLETE. GLOBAL. CALIBRATION.

moist turtleneck posted:

Based on this discussion, I think the best bet for the new DLC is the introduction of all types of hats. Krogan Adept with a Native American headdress It doesn't break lore, they just stopped by the hat store at the Citadel.

And just like that the Reaper War grinds to a halt. Organics and Synthetics put aside their feud for the sake of bartering over trillbys and fezes and oversized novelty sombreros.

I would pay cold hard MS funbux for a set of stunner shades to equip on my Batarians.

exquisite tea
Apr 21, 2007

Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."



SalInf is still really good, probably my favorite traditional sniping Infiltrator. I've never liked SalEng that much but he's basically a Human Engineer anyway and HEs are strong as well.

Krampus Grewcock
Aug 26, 2010

Gruss vom Krampus!


moist turtleneck posted:

Based on this discussion, I think the best bet for the new DLC is the introduction of all types of hats. Krogan Adept with a Native American headdress It doesn't break lore, they just stopped by the hat store at the Citadel.

Krogan Vanguard with a football helmet, and a jersey that just says "RAWRR".

Luceo
Apr 29, 2003

As predicted in the Bible.




Fun Shoe

KidKrampus posted:

Krogan Vanguard with a football helmet, and a jersey that just says "RAWRR".

I think the helmet would break before his forehead plate would.

Aphrodite
Jun 27, 2006



BreakAtmo posted:

The quarians have a specific engineer theme to their movelists even with a Soldier class, and krogans have blood rage as an ability tied to lore that makes them relatively unique. Also, none of the races you mentioned are literally extinct. If you want to flip the bird to any semblance of lore entirely you should have some compelling reason for it. There's nothing special about Protheans in mobility, melee, or power theme senses. Having characters with little gameplay difference is ok when you'd expect them to be there anyway, Protheans do not match that at all.

So you're saying you know everything that Bioware might conceivably do with a Prothean race because you met one? Just one?

That's racist.

HiroChicken
Jun 3, 2007

Eevee of Tomorrow

Sarkozymandias posted:

If we listened to you we wouldn't have playable Volus

But there never was any lore about Volus not being able to fight? This always irks me.

Doc Dee
Feb 15, 2012

THANKS FOR MAKING ME SPEND MONEY, T


Totally forgot to get to this earlier in the Volus/Prothean Lore Argument, but according to the Codex, turian client races (volus being the only one we actually know of) spend like three years as auxiliary troops, generally in support roles, before earning full citizenship. That's why we can have volus guys, and they have powers like Shield Boost and Stasis and Recon Mine.

I was thinking about this all day at work.

Gangringo
Jul 22, 2007


Dehumanize yourself and to bloodshed!


If you want Protheans and your immersion I came up with an idea. The reaper invasion got all the major races sharing previously classified data on Prothean weapons, armor, and biotic amps. With their combined knowledge they created Prothean-style kits for the council races complete with four-eyed helmets and green biotics. They could go with the "space magic was different colors in the last cycle" theme for engineer powers and make yellow lightning and blue flame variants of overload and incinerate with their own Prothean twist.

Felinoid
Mar 8, 2009

Marginally better than Shepard's dancing. 2/10


HiroChicken posted:

But there never was any lore about Volus not being able to fight? This always irks me.

Well, there is the fact that a puncture in their suit would kill them three different ways. First is the explosive decompression, since apparently "normal" atmospheric pressure is so low their flesh will split right open (the Codex actually says this straight out, which I find hilarious). Next is apparently poison, because nitrox atmospheres are not just unbreathable but actually poisonous to them (again the Codex specifies this). Last is freezing to death, which is just admittedly just speculation based on it saying that their normal atmosphere is really hot. But it wouldn't be terribly fun to get permanently booted from the match the moment you went down, so gently caress lore.

Doc Dee posted:

Totally forgot to get to this earlier in the Volus/Prothean Lore Argument, but according to the Codex, turian client races (volus being the only one we actually know of) spend like three years as auxiliary troops, generally in support roles, before earning full citizenship. That's why we can have volus guys, and they have powers like Shield Boost and Stasis and Recon Mine.

I was thinking about this all day at work.

Support roles doesn't usually mean spec ops or frontline combat medics. Artillery, radar, supply lines, and that sort of thing are what that typically refers to, I think. That said, the Volus have the Bombing Fleet and that one dreadnought, so clearly they're at the least used to naval combat. A few brave souls out of the entire Hegemony hitting up the frontline with ridiculous combat-oriented gear isn't out of the question.

Doc Dee
Feb 15, 2012

THANKS FOR MAKING ME SPEND MONEY, T


Gangringo posted:

If you want Protheans and your immersion I came up with an idea. The reaper invasion got all the major races sharing previously classified data on Prothean weapons, armor, and biotic amps. With their combined knowledge they created Prothean-style kits for the council races complete with four-eyed helmets and green biotics. They could go with the "space magic was different colors in the last cycle" theme for engineer powers and make yellow lightning and blue flame variants of overload and incinerate with their own Prothean twist.

Ehhhhh, that doesn't sound all that great.

Wouldn't mind having a class with Slam though.

Doc Dee
Feb 15, 2012

THANKS FOR MAKING ME SPEND MONEY, T


Felinoid posted:

Well, there is the fact that a puncture in their suit would kill them three different ways. First is the explosive decompression, since apparently "normal" atmospheric pressure is so low their flesh will split right open (the Codex actually says this straight out, which I find hilarious). Next is apparently poison, because nitrox atmospheres are not just unbreathable but actually poisonous to them (again the Codex specifies this). Last is freezing to death, which is just admittedly just speculation based on it saying that their normal atmosphere is really hot. But it wouldn't be terribly fun to get permanently booted from the match the moment you went down, so gently caress lore.


Support roles doesn't usually mean spec ops or frontline combat medics. Artillery, radar, supply lines, and that sort of thing are what that typically refers to, I think. That said, the Volus have the Bombing Fleet and that one dreadnought, so clearly they're at the least used to naval combat. A few brave souls out of the entire HegemonyProtectorate hitting up the frontline with ridiculous combat-oriented gear isn't out of the question.

True. Plus, their combat quotes seem to indicate they're mercenaries, in it for the pay. And the game does try to make a point of giving each race hats, but not every individual chooses to wear it. Therefore, lore intact.

Aphrodite
Jun 27, 2006



Felinoid posted:

Well, there is the fact that a puncture in their suit would kill them three different ways. First is the explosive decompression, since apparently "normal" atmospheric pressure is so low their flesh will split right open (the Codex actually says this straight out, which I find hilarious). Next is apparently poison, because nitrox atmospheres are not just unbreathable but actually poisonous to them (again the Codex specifies this). Last is freezing to death, which is just admittedly just speculation based on it saying that their normal atmosphere is really hot.

This explains my experience with Volus teammates exactly.



vvv I was talking about powers. Now they all look the same too?

Hey, could you join me on Virmire for a minute? I have a surprise. vvv

Aphrodite fucked around with this message at Feb 14, 2013 around 01:34

BreakAtmo
May 16, 2009



Aphrodite posted:

So you're saying you know everything that Bioware might conceivably do with a Prothean race because you met one? Just one?

That's racist.

Yes, because it's so likely that playable Protheans wouldn't just be Javik's model over and over again.

Doc Dee
Feb 15, 2012

THANKS FOR MAKING ME SPEND MONEY, T


Aphrodite posted:

This explains my experience with Volus teammates exactly.



vvv I was talking about powers. Now they all look the same too?

Hey, could you join me on Virmire for a minute? I have a surprise. vvv

That's because they aren't PLAYING A SUPPORT ROLE

precision
May 7, 2006

Gonna have me some good friends around
Gonna have me some good times in town


Take it to BSN, nerds.

Red Crown
Oct 20, 2008

Pretend my finger's a knife.

Doc Dee posted:

That's because they aren't PLAYING A SUPPORT ROLE

I don't even have any idea how you could possibly play offensively as a Volus.

GPSG III and M-99 Saber I! Got the Volus Engineer and Collector SMG earlier today.

Alteisen
Jun 4, 2007

by FactsAreUseless


Red Crown posted:

I don't even have any idea how you could possibly play offensively as a Volus.

GPSG III and M-99 Saber I! Got the Volus Engineer and Collector SMG earlier today.

Harrier, recon mine, cloak, wander into spawns and shoot.

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Rick
Feb 23, 2004
And now the whole nation - pulpit and all - will take up the war-cry, and shout itself hoarse, and mob any honest man who ventures to open his mouth; and presently such mouths will cease to open.

moist turtleneck posted:

Based on this discussion, I think the best bet for the new DLC is the introduction of all types of hats. Krogan Adept with a Native American headdress :madmax: It doesn't break lore, they just stopped by the hat store at the Citadel.

Geth in a tophat.

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