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This is a continuation of Incredulous Dylan's 3D Gaming Thread - Now With Depth! What's stereoscopic 3D? It's a fancy pants word basically meaning "Anything that gives depth perception by manipulating images for both eyes." How does stereoscopic 3D gaming work and what types are there? All 3D gaming (and movies) work using the same basic idea - taking a 2D image and doubling it. The main difference comes from variations on the methods used to trick your brain into perceiving this as one image with depth. Your brain already does this all the time - just try alternating each eye on one finger without moving it. Your finger will move based on the perspective of each eye! Since you aren't an abomination, you have two eyes that are set a distance apart and transmit visual information to your brain, which then comes up with an idea of the depth involved. That's pretty simplified, but check out the wikipedia article on Stereopsis for more information about exciting natural processes! Definitions you need to know: Crosstalk- When the pictures for the wrong eye show in both eye to some extent. This can cause headaches, fuzziness, and diminish the effect. FPS / Hertz- Hertz is how many times a monitor refreshes per second. Higher hertz means a monitor can display more frames per second, for smoother motion. Software reports performance frames per second, but monitors and standards like HDMI or DisplayPort prefer the scientific term hertz for "per second". When it comes to stereoscopic 3D, there's a lot of methods but here's the main ones: Anaglyph Glasses The familiar if old school red / blue glasses that have been around since the 1950s. There's some more modern twists involving different colors, but these offer the lowest quality and tons of distortion. If you have a relatively recent NVidia or ATI card, chances are there's a driver out there that will hook you up with an Anaglyph mode for your game, though it isn't going to be pretty. Polarized Lenses This involves polarizing the left and right image to direct opposite wave forms, and using the polarized lenses to filter only the picture you want. These have very low crosstalk, and the glasses are extremely cheap. The bad news? On a regular LCD display, this works by making half the pixel rows for one eye, and half for another. You'll lose half your resolution. Typically, they use the horizontal rows and interleave it just like an old school interlaced TV. You can actually use twin projectors not to have this limitation, but that's going to run you at least $1500 for two 720P projectors. http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/3d-polarized-projector,2589-4.html Liquid Crystal Shutter Glasses This is what is most familiar to users now. These are the big, battery powered glasses that block out light in synch with your refresh rate, alternating in each eye to create depth perception. This is now considered the best way to view 3D media at home, being able to display the full color spectrum and impressive 3D effects. One of the downsides to this method would be that what you are viewing will be darker than normal, but you should be able to adjust your monitor/3D settings to compensate for this very easily if it actually bothers you. Another is that the glasses cannot fully darken so you will see some crosstalk. Finally, the glasses are probably $80+ each, and require a 120Hz LCD monitor. They're basically sold as kits with monitor and projector for $500 each. Headmounted displays / VR goggles Remember the mid 90s? Lawnmower Man? The head mounted goofiness is back, and this time it looks REALLY good. The most well known VR goggle right now is the Oculus Rift, currently on Kickstarter in a developer friendly model that consumers probably shouldn't buy. The second most famous is the Sony HMZ-T1. You can actually go to your local Sony store, try one on and see how you like it. The nice part about the HMDs and VR goggles is that there's no crosstalk, period. You have truly separate displays for both eyes. The second nice part is that the picture is huge. The Sony is the equivalent of having your very own 150 inch movie screen only twelve feet away. The Rift completely filled my vision and was like nothing I have ever used before. The bad news? They're expensive, the Rift is $300 which is pretty reasonable for a dev kit, and the Sony is $800. They also can weigh a significant amount. What else is wrong with 3D? Right now, HDMI 1.4a can only provide 3D at 1920x1080 with a 24FPS/Hertz refresh rate. DisplayPort 1.2 can do significantly higher refresh rates and resolutions but isn't widely available. nVidia used to use "dual link" DVI which means using two DVI ports and cables to run each display. Also, many 3D monitors used to only be "3D Ready" which meant you had to spend additional cash to buy the nVidia 3D Vision kits. You can also expect a performance penalty as the videocard has to render every frame with two slightly different perspectives. The penalty can be all over the place, from as low as 10-25% to as high as 50% or more. And some games just don't work in 3D or are incredibly broken. Ouch, is there any good news? The monitors used for 3D are 120Hz, which means significantly less monitor lag when not using 3D. Microsoft has built stereoscopic 3D support into DirectX 11.1 for Windows 8 and after a patch, Windows 7. It's widely expected that stereoscopic 3D is going to be a big feature of upcoming consoles, so all the console ports will get it as well. Meanwhile, the Rift is widely expected to launch a massive wave of VR goggles that are reasonably priced and INCREDIBLY immersive. What do I need to do to get 3D? AMD and nVidia both support 3D in their latest cards. nVidia provides driver software to adapt existing games to 3D, but AMD requires you to purchase drivers from TriDef. AMD: http://www.amd.com/us/products/technologies/amd-hd3d/Pages/hd3d.aspx TriDef: http://www.tridef.com/user-guide/supported-games nVidia: http://www.nvidia.com/object/3d-vision-main.html There's a ton of monitors, projectors, TVs, and other hardware available. What kind of games can I play? http://www.amd.com/us/products/technologies/amd-hd3d/Pages/3d-desktop-graphics.aspx#5 AMD's list of games is REALLY small, since they only began supporting stereoscopic 3D on the 5xxx series of Radeons two years ago and really only started pushing it with the 6xxx series last year. http://www.nvidia.com/object/3d-vision-games.html Anything listed as 3D Vision Ready is going to be awesome, Excellent titles will be good, and Good titles will be playable. You might want to stay away from everything else. Here's a big chunk of reviews from the last thread: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3380974&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=1#post386811394 El_Matarife fucked around with this message at 18:26 on Aug 14, 2012 |
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Aug 12, 2012 00:23
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The Oculus Rift: This is worthy of a special post just because of how neat it really is. Don't believe me? Take someone else's word for it: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/08/06/visions-of-the-future-face-on-with-oculus-rift/ http://penny-arcade.com/report/editorial-article/behind-the-scenes-with-the-oculus-rift-the-hardware-that-could-change-the-w http://www.joystiq.com/2012/08/07/looking-into-the-world-of-carmack-s-doom-through-the-oculus-rift/ http://www.legitreviews.com/article/1996/1/ Basically, it's only 640x800 per eye which makes it a little grainy. On the other hand, the 3D effect is one of the best I've ever seen and the truly enormous field of view is so immersive, you'd have to use it to believe it. I looked over a cliff edge in the demo and I got vertigo. The head tracking is drat responsive too, easily as fast as using a mouse. Should I buy one? If you're not a developer, modder, or someone who wants to modify the hardware itself, then unfortunately the answer is no. They want every single unit possible to go into the hands of developers, and want to do zero support for consumers. They also don't want to let anyone down, which is certainly possible since the only game is Doom3:BFG. Wait for the consumer version next year, it will be a lot nicer. The dev kit won't ship until December anyway, but this time next year we could buy buying our very own Rifts with better resolution and all kinds of fun features. Quakecon's panel on the Rift, a lot of which is summarized in the articles above: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gaqQdyfAz8 John Carmack on the initial engineering impressions of the Rift dev kit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wt-iVFxgFWk Carmack on integrating the Rift into Doom3BFG: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wt-iVFxgFWk Carmack's reservations on the dev kit and why you shouldn't buy it (Forward to the correct timestamp 2:15:39, YouTube timestamps break at 2:13:40): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wt-iVFxgFWk El_Matarife fucked around with this message at 00:39 on Aug 12, 2012 |
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Aug 12, 2012 00:23
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Placeholder for game / hardware reviews. Post em in the thread, and I'll excerpt money quotes and link them.
El_Matarife fucked around with this message at 00:31 on Aug 12, 2012 |
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Aug 12, 2012 00:24
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Very excited for the Oculus Rift. Hope it releases soon enough!
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Aug 14, 2012 02:05
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El_Matarife posted:http://www.amd.com/us/products/technologies/amd-hd3d/Pages/3d-desktop-graphics.aspx#5 AMD's list of games is REALLY small, since they only began supporting stereoscopic 3D on the 5xxx series of Radeons two years ago and really only started pushing it with the 6xxx series last year.
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Aug 14, 2012 02:18
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iZ3D isn't around anymore?
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Aug 14, 2012 02:57
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That sucks. IZ3D had a piss poor UI and a really limited divergence compared to Tridef, but they were a pretty technically competent competitor. Hopefully Tridef doesn't feel like they can start slacking off now that there's no competition in the AMD 3D space.
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Aug 14, 2012 03:12
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El_Matarife posted:FPS / Hertz- The two terms are used interchangeably to refer to refresh rate. Software typically talks frames per second, but monitors and standards like HDMI or DisplayPort prefer the scientific term hertz for "per second". I wouldn't have said this was true. FPS usually refers to how many frames of video the graphics card is pushing out to the display per second, and Hz refers to the rate at which the monitor updates, no matter whether it's refreshing to a new image or the same one. You can be watching a 30FPS display on a 60Hz monitor, the two terms aren't really interchangable.
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Aug 14, 2012 03:46
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Ok, I edited the OP to remove iZ3D, add the Tridef games list, and cleanup the FPS/hertz issues.
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Aug 14, 2012 18:27
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I'm very, very close to plopping down just over £500 for the new Asus VG278HE 27" 144Hz 3D Monitor with seperate 3D vision 2... like alot of 3D vision monitors it's TN and with no reviews it's a bit of a big risk. It only works out at about ~£30 more than the Asus VG278HE @120Hz and surely it can't be worse than that one, can it? Someone talk me out of it.
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Aug 16, 2012 13:13
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I have a 120Hz TN panel (it's a benq though) and it's a fantastic screen. You're better off with a dell ultrasharp if you're after the absolute best image quality, but the 120Hz+ panels are by far the best gaming monitors you can get. Most of them have quite good sRGB profiles too. The 3D thing is almost an afterthought with these screens sometimes. The added refresh rate quickens response times and the frame rate is noticeably smoother, especially with stuff like mouse movement and scrolling images. I went from a single video card machine with a 60hz screen to a 120hz screen and SLI system and I can't believe I ever played games any other way. It drat near eliminated any kind of mouse lag, at least in games that don't have horribly designed mouse controls. Stereo 3D, however...look, it can be impressive, it can be terrible, but as it is right now with active shutter glasses, it's not good enough. I honestly think you should wait for the consumer version of the Rift before getting into 3D gaming (don't get the developer kit, the resolution is too low and the response time for the headtracking is still too high). One of the best games to play in stereo, Metro 2033, suffers from terrible crosstalk. I don't know if 3D vision 2 is better at eliminating that, but the entire point of stereo is to eliminate the incorrect image being seen by the wrong eye. If they can't get that right, it's not worth it.
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Aug 16, 2012 13:26
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I'm really hyped for the RIFT, hopefully it'll be less than $400 retail when it comes out.
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Aug 16, 2012 13:29
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giZm posted:I'm really hyped for the RIFT, hopefully it'll be less than $400 retail when it comes out. I think it's a great idea but the low resolution worries me. I strongly suspect that this is going to be the launch resolution (why launch a dev kit if it's not?). I fear that it's a concession to HDMI 1.4 compatability which basically struggles to provide bandwidth for the resolution and frame rate we're used to. DisplayPort is the natural connection for high bitrate 3D, but this rules out most modern graphics cards, all current mobile devices and all consoles (though they are ignoring the latter). HDMI which is far more common still limits you to resolutions like 720p60 or 1080p30 at best.
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Aug 16, 2012 13:52
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What about 3Dtvs? I plan on building a whole new PC around stereoscopic gaming when the new console generation is out. I intend on buying a 3dtv then with active shutter glasses. I should be good to go as long as I use Nivida's 3dtv play software right? My current PC gaming setup involves a 2D 52 inch Sharp LCD TV, and I am quite happy with it. So I am pretty firm on using a 3Dtv as the successor to my current setup. I enjoy PC gaming from my couch. 
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Aug 16, 2012 13:55
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dunc-uk posted:I'm very, very close to plopping down just over £500 for the new Asus VG278HE 27" 144Hz 3D Monitor with separate 3D vision 2... Now that's an oddball refresh rate. 120Hz is popular because it's the lowest common multiple of 24, 30, and 60 so that all the common refresh rates can just be shown 5, 4, and 2 times. PAL is 25/50 but 144 is clearly not a multiple of those. I don't even know what UK's version of DVB but I can't imagine that would work there either. Someone explain this refresh rate to me. I can see that it will allow 24hz to show one more time but at the expense of 30 and 60hz. iceaim posted:What about 3Dtvs? I plan on building a whole new PC around stereoscopic gaming when the new console generation is out. I intend on buying a 3dtv then with active shutter glasses. Yeah, every 3DTV with HDMI1.4 (Which is basically all of them) should work just fine as far as I know. nVidia does have a compatibility list if you want to be extra cautious though. Engadget went hands on with the Rift at Gamescom in Germany: http://www.engadget.com/2012/08/16/oculus-rift-hands-on/ They're raving about it too. I didn't think Kickstarter worked in the EU since Amazon Payments is almost a US only thing.
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Aug 16, 2012 19:03
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El_Matarife posted:Now that's an oddball refresh rate. 120Hz is popular because it's the lowest common multiple of 24, 30, and 60 so that all the common refresh rates can just be shown 5, 4, and 2 times. PAL is 25/50 but 144 is clearly not a multiple of those. I don't even know what UK's version of DVB but I can't imagine that would work there either. Someone explain this refresh rate to me. I can see that it will allow 24hz to show one more time but at the expense of 30 and 60hz. It's 24Hz * 6, 24 being the cinema frame rate. Of course, it will be capable of clocking back down to 120Hz (and lower) anyway, for compatibility with anything that needs 120Hz. These aren't CRT monitors. The higher refresh rate is mostly just for 3D haming of course, to get as high a refresh rate per eye as possible. Most 3D monitor reviews mention that the drop in responsiveness for 3D is a bit jarring so the higher the better? Of course, it does nothing for FPS. El_Matarife posted:Yeah, every 3DTV with HDMI1.4 (Which is basically all of them) should work just fine as far as I know. nVidia does have a compatibility list if you want to be extra cautious though. Just be aware of the fairly low bandwidth of HDMI as I mentioned before... if you want to play 1080p you'll be limited to 24Hz / fps per eye. That's pretty low.
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Aug 17, 2012 08:56
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My friend's joke that the Rift refers to the fact that I'll never see them again after it comes out. Oh, they joke.... vv Beats me, I never locked it in the first place  I'm definitely waiting for the consumer version to cut all social ties. While I think the price is great even for the dev I just don't want to deal with the (potentially literal) headaches of (pre) first gen ownership. I'm super stoked though! Incredulous Dylan fucked around with this message at 01:49 on Aug 18, 2012 |
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Aug 18, 2012 01:14
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Incredulous Dylan posted:My friend's joke that the Rift refers to the fact that I'll never see them again after it comes out. Oh, they joke.... I made this thread BECAUSE the old one was locked for at least three days. Since you didn't lock it, what on Earth happened? I assume you ordered a dev unit? I was REALLY impressed but I just don't know if I can justify it. One of the things I am going to be most interested in is that with this, you could do something like virtual windows on a "wall" in front of you instead of multiple monitors. Imagine having 9+ windows open at once and moving your head to look at different things, the same way you might with a 24 monitor Eyfinity array. It's a sys admin or programmer's dream. In fact, they just added a FAQ item about that, along with a general update: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1523379957/oculus-rift-step-into-the-game/posts/288523 El_Matarife fucked around with this message at 01:38 on Aug 18, 2012 |
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Aug 18, 2012 01:32
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Reposting here since I apparently necro'd the old thread  Any goons using the Sony HMZ-T1 and try Sleeping Dogs yet? I keep hearing that the game is supposed to fully support both NVidia and ATI 3d setups, but it doesn't seem to be working through the NVidia Play drivers, and the in-game "enable 3d" mode or whatever doesn't seem to be doing anything, and it isn't activating side by side or top/bottom modes. E: nevermind, it seems it is working, sort of; the game often doesn't load with s3d on, and likes to crash. welp. duckfarts fucked around with this message at 05:50 on Aug 18, 2012 |
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Aug 18, 2012 03:44
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Have they released any specs of the Rift? I wonder how much that thing weighs, because even the greatest amount of immersion doesn't help if that thing gets uncomfortable to wear after 5 minutes.
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Aug 18, 2012 07:47
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Half a pound, like good headphones. I'm definitely waiting for the next gen consoles before buying any VR stuff, fairly certain that the VR manufacturers will then tailor their products to whatever interfaces are available on those. I believe Carmack thinks Thunderbolt would be ideal, but I don't know whether that's realistic.
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Aug 18, 2012 09:50
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Paul Pot posted:Half a pound, like good headphones. The console manufacturers will almost certainly roll their own for next gen, no way will they partner with a 3rd party company if they don't have to.
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Aug 19, 2012 10:05
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dunc-uk posted:The console manufacturers will almost certainly roll their own for next gen, no way will they partner with a 3rd party company if they don't have to.
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Aug 19, 2012 11:24
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Honestly, I wouldn't bother worrying about consoles. Games are always going to be built to take full advantage of the hardware in 2D, so even on next gen stuff 3D will inevitability have to be lower quality. I don't know if you've seen the current gen's attempt at stereo, but it is by and large truly awful. If you're committed to stereoscopic games, you're pretty much stuck building high spec PCs. Doubly so if you want VR, as duckfarts points out.
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Aug 19, 2012 12:22
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Is it so inconceivable that 3D/VR stuff could be a big selling point at launch and they'll force developers to makes sure their games run at a steady 60 FPS if they want to be labeled 3D-compatible? It's somewhat understandable that the first gen of consoles that had to deal with TVs doubling in resolution was lovely at implementing technology that was introduced halfway through its shelf life and requires double the regular framerate. I'm just thinking out loud btw, if someone can give me technical reasons why I'm not making sense it would be appreciated. The Rift is getting a lot of hype and with Epic, id & Valve on board I have trouble thinking of VRs as a high-end PC only gadget 5 years from now.
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Aug 19, 2012 15:37
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If there's one person who knows how to hyper up terrible poo poo, and then completly botch it's release, it's John Carmack. I look forward to hearing how impractical these are when released.quote:These are the big, battery powered glasses that block out light in synch with your refresh rate, alternating in each eye to create depth perception. rizuhbull fucked around with this message at 16:17 on Aug 19, 2012 |
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Aug 19, 2012 16:14
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So I have a Samsung plasma that isn't compatible with the Nvidia 3DTV Play suite they have out, what are my options? I have the trial of Tridef which is okay, but it won't run Oblivion or anything I launch through an alternate .exe properly. Is there a way for me to trick the 3DTV Play into seeing my TV as a compatible one? It's one of the 2011 plasmas.
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Aug 20, 2012 00:20
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Emerson Cod posted:So I have a Samsung plasma that isn't compatible with the Nvidia 3DTV Play suite they have out, what are my options? I have the trial of Tridef which is okay, but it won't run Oblivion or anything I launch through an alternate .exe properly. Is there a way for me to trick the 3DTV Play into seeing my TV as a compatible one? It's one of the 2011 plasmas. You can always try switching Ignition to SBS and then manually switch your TV into SBS 3D. That will completely negate the need for the nVidia 3DTV play stuff. I've got to say, I'm getting pretty sick of nVidia not allowing regular frame packed 3D without paying extra for their software and using only supported screens. Seriously, pretty much every single 3D device on the market now supports HDMI 1.4 frame packed 3D, so they should just enable the support in their drivers and be done with it. They can still use their specific software/monitor combos if they want for 120Hz frame sequential.
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Aug 20, 2012 05:04
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I play with Anaglyph glasses occasionally. While it's not as good as any other method it's cheap and has been available for ages through the now-defunct iz3d driver. Depending on the game, it can feel pretty much amazing. I'm curious about this Oculus Rift.
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Aug 22, 2012 07:25
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Oculus Rift Hands-On And Interview With Palmer Luckey https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJoi2A2566U
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Aug 22, 2012 13:53
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Michael Abrash interview about the Rift and Valve's plans: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/08/22/valves-abrash-on-virtual-reality-wearable-computing/ I have to run out the door so I haven't read it yet. Hopefully some good stuff in here.
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Aug 23, 2012 00:30
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JBark posted:You can always try switching Ignition to SBS and then manually switch your TV into SBS 3D. That will completely negate the need for the nVidia 3DTV play stuff. So wait, there's a chance a 3Dtv which supports HDMI 1.4 will not work with Nvidia 3Dtv play software? In Hong Kong the model names of 3dtvs are different than what Nvidia lists in their supported sets section. This'll make it a huge pain in the rear end to buy a 3dtv. Is there a workaround that'll give the same 3D support and work with Nvidia's 3d vision drivers? I would prefer to avoid non 3d vision solutions like Tridef which come off as a bit hacky to me. iceaim fucked around with this message at 00:40 on Aug 23, 2012 |
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Aug 23, 2012 00:38
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It is normal for some games to have terrible performance when 3d is enabled? Burnout Paradise grinds down to about 20 fps in 3d mode. Meanwhile, Crysis 2 runs great.
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Aug 27, 2012 03:36
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Yeah of course, its rendering the scene twice so naturally there's going to be overhead. Your drivers make some optimizations so its not quite double the work, but games are always going to perform worse with stereo turned on. I'm guessing Crysis 2's built-in stereo stuff is even more optimized. Haven't played it though.
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Aug 27, 2012 04:00
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homeless snail posted:Yeah of course, its rendering the scene twice so naturally there's going to be overhead. Your drivers make some optimizations so its not quite double the work, but games are always going to perform worse with stereo turned on. I'm guessing Crysis 2's built-in stereo stuff is even more optimized. Haven't played it though. Right, but still, it just doesn't make sense. Burnout Paradise ran pretty well on my old HD3870. Now I've got a GeForce GTX 660 ti. Crysis 2 runs great in 3d, Driver San Fransisco runs great in 3d, and Just Cause 2 is quite happy to run in 3d with 32x CSAA enabled. Burnout should be screaming along at a few hundred frames per second with this video card.
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Aug 27, 2012 06:23
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iceaim posted:So wait, there's a chance a 3Dtv which supports HDMI 1.4 will not work with Nvidia 3Dtv play software? In Hong Kong the model names of 3dtvs are different than what Nvidia lists in their supported sets section. This'll make it a huge pain in the rear end to buy a 3dtv. Is there a workaround that'll give the same 3D support and work with Nvidia's 3d vision drivers? Definitey, I'm 99% sure devices have to be whitelisted to work with 3DTV Play, just like with 3D Vision. There's plenty of workarounds about if you google though, usually something like installing a monitor inf of a whitelisted device. I've messed with it a bit before, it usually works fine. I find it's best to search for the model you want to buy at places like mtbs3d.com to see if someone has already created a custom inf. Even if someone mentions a similar model working, then you'll probably be able to get something to work. Also, the guys here at work will appreciate your "hacky" comment. 
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Aug 27, 2012 07:46
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Maxwell Adams posted:Right, but still, it just doesn't make sense. Burnout Paradise ran pretty well on my old HD3870. Now I've got a GeForce GTX 660 ti. Crysis 2 runs great in 3d, Driver San Fransisco runs great in 3d, and Just Cause 2 is quite happy to run in 3d with 32x CSAA enabled. Burnout should be screaming along at a few hundred frames per second with this video card. Are you using AA? I find that the vast majority of unexplainable slowdowns are due to AA not playing nicely with the dual scene rendering used by 3d vision or tridef s3d. Sometimes even enabling 2xAA can drop performance from 100fps+ down to single digits in certain games. Seems to sometimes trigger memory usage bugs that cause the graphics memory usage to spike much higher than you would expect with the level of AA being used. This is where FXAA really shines, since it doesn't trigger these sorts of issues. You also shouldn't see much/any performance drop with the inbuilt 3d modes like those found in Deus Ex/Crysis 2/Sleeping Dogs or tridef p3d, because all of those render the scene once, and just pull the depth info from the z buffer. As long as they are good little devs and properly give everything the correct depth coords, then this method works really well. Wanna guess how often they are good little devs? 
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Aug 27, 2012 07:59
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Hawken to launch with Rift support in December. I'm pretty stoked for this.
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Aug 27, 2012 19:42
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Man, that looks like it would be soooo sweet to play on the RIFT. The idea of a custom cockpit that you can look around in while playing is cool as heck too. Waiting a year for the consumer version is going to be awful  . I promised myself I will wait this time, though.Edit: Seriously I keep looking at this kickstarter and almost buying. On one hand it's just $300 for loving VR, man! On the other hand I'm worried about getting stuck with literally two games to play. Then again with all of the hubbub I wonder if we'll see a bunch of devs using these kits to release compatible games within a reasonable time frame... Incredulous Dylan fucked around with this message at 21:01 on Aug 27, 2012 |
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Aug 27, 2012 20:45
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Incredulous Dylan posted:Man, that looks like it would be soooo sweet to play on the RIFT. The idea of a custom cockpit that you can look around in while playing is cool as heck too. Waiting a year for the consumer version is going to be awful
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Aug 28, 2012 02:59
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