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The special move should add one Lead.
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Aug 24, 2012 18:06
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Echophonic posted:I really like Monster of the Week. I was waffling on it, but the discussion got me over the top. I can see making some awesome games out of this. I can definitely see the Fringe inspiration, even without the Olivia shoutout in the Professional. I'm trying to figure out what archetype Peter fits in as. In season 4, he's probably an Exile, but it definitely feels like Flake could fit. Now to figure out a way to get the Exile playbook. You get the Exile book by running a MotW game, posting about it publicly, and letting Michael Sands know.
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Aug 24, 2012 18:07
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Evil Mastermind posted:You get the Exile book by running a MotW game, posting about it publicly, and letting Michael Sands know. Yeah, I know. I just need to prep and arrange a time to actually run it! My group's a little hard to nail down if we don't have a session scheduled, so I may have to rope some other friends into it.
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Aug 24, 2012 18:11
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Doc Hawkins posted:The special move should add one Lead. Which move?
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Aug 24, 2012 18:11
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The Special Move. I don't think you added one yet?
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Aug 24, 2012 18:18
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Doc Hawkins posted:The Special Move. I don't think you added one yet?
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Aug 24, 2012 18:23
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To offer some gentle dissent, the Revenant feels conceptually problematic for your typical AW game. It's like, okay, the Driver mainly focuses on his car, and the Gunlugger has his guns, and the Chopper his gang and so on, but those are all things that can be applied in a variety of situations towards a variety of goals. The fact that this character has the Fucker (and especially because virtually all their moves tie into pursuing same) makes it extremely one-note and likely to clash with other PCs. At best, it's going to be "Well, okay, now you do your thing with this NPC you have a hate boner for and around which all your mechanics resolve for a while and I guess we'll do... something else?" and at worst it's going to be "Why can't I just kill the Fucker myself?" This is really the only front your guy is going to be able to deal with using anything beyond basic moves, so is it going to be the focus of the game? It really requires a lot of front-loading of the setting, even more than the Hardholder or the Quarantine or the Maestro D, all of whom's assets also give the other PCs something to play around with. With this, it's like if they help you, they're stepping on your playbook concept, and if they don't, it's just you jerking off while everyone else stands aside. I guess you could set up PC-NPC-PC triangles with the Lieutenants or the Fucker, or even have another PC be the Fucker. It would work for an antagonistic style of game, which AW handles decently, but I'm not sure most campaigns could sustain this for long. Great for a one-shot, though. I don't want this criticism to come off as too harsh. I really like the concept of Lead and I think Evil Mastermind has done some great work here; the moves feel great for playing the Bride or some other wronged party. This playbook would be a blast in a solo game. I'd just caution that emulating a classic revenge story is not always a great choice when you're dealing with more than one protagonist. Just something to consider. EDIT: Oh, and that one move you haven't filled in yet (I mean the one already on the sheet, not the Special) should let the Revenant turn any miss into a weak hit or any weak hit into a strong hit while adding +1 Lead. If Lead ever surpasses X, the Fucker escapes retribution forever, choose another playbook. That Rough Beast fucked around with this message at 20:48 on Aug 24, 2012 |
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Aug 24, 2012 20:24
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That Rough Beast posted:I'd just caution that emulating a classic revenge story is not always a great choice when you're dealing with more than one protagonist. Just something to consider. This is a good point, for sure, I can see how it might monopolize the MC's time. The Revenant does seems like the kind of playbook that a player might present to the group, like "I was thinking of this..." and see how it goes over. But AW games are kinda built on the inter-player tensions that arise from having separate agendas, so having a playbook with a pre-written agenda seems fine to me. The Fucker is assumed to be sort of a Big Deal so there are plenty of ways for the MC to make his Front overlap with the other players. I agree that you wouldn't want to throw the Revenant in the playbook pile all the time, but I honestly don't think it's that much more limiting than, say, the Quarantine or Hardholder. One thing that might help: maybe de-specify some of the moves so that the Revenant can apply them to more situations, that's a great idea. quote:I need your help: When you manipulate someone ...still works for me. The Revenant is intense, he's full of rage and desperation, why not have this work all the time? Edit: and Eyes on the Prize could turn into a more general info-gathering move. You're good at rooting up info and trying to be subtle about it. It could remain assumed that usually you're searching for the Fucker, but you could probably find out anything if you really need to. Scrape fucked around with this message at 21:40 on Aug 24, 2012 |
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Aug 24, 2012 21:36
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Make it so the Fucker has to be another PC. Problem solved!  E: but seriously, I love that part in the mountain witch, where if you draw the right card, you can tell someone, "actually, you're the one who burned everyone I ever loved to ash, and now you're going to answer for it." Actually, that kinda fits with what happens in The Quick and the Dead: I can totally imagine Sharon Stone's player going around the table and choosing which PCs participated in The Awful Thing. E2: me no read good 
Doc Hawkins fucked around with this message at 23:10 on Aug 24, 2012 |
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Aug 24, 2012 22:10
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That Rough Beast posted:To offer some gentle dissent, the Revenant feels conceptually problematic for your typical AW game. It's like, okay, the Driver mainly focuses on his car, and the Gunlugger has his guns, and the Chopper his gang and so on, but those are all things that can be applied in a variety of situations towards a variety of goals. The fact that this character has the Fucker (and especially because virtually all their moves tie into pursuing same) makes it extremely one-note and likely to clash with other PCs. It does seem like the kind of playbook that a campaign should be built around, at least at first. Same thing kinda happens with the Hardholder and (sometimes) Maestro'D playbooks, too, so it's not necessarily a BAD thing, just something that everyone at the table should be aware of and agree to.
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Aug 24, 2012 22:38
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That Rough Beast posted:Valid concerns and good suggestions Scrape posted:More good ideas Both of you raise some good points (especially That Rough Beast). I'll take a look and incorporate these ideas into v4.
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Aug 24, 2012 22:55
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Also holy poo poo the World of Dungeons clones just keep on coming and being awesome. World of Dusters
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Aug 24, 2012 22:58
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Here's a thought experiment. I was wondering what Leverage World would look like, and I figured choosing gear at character creation is pretty pointless for a kind of game that requires a huge amount of exotic gear that often shows up on-the-fly. Then I came up with this. pre:Basic Move: Procure Equipment When you need a piece of special gear right now, roll+weird. On a 10+, you have it. On a 7-9, choose 1: • it is not immediately available • you have it, but it is poorly made or malfunctions • you have something similar pre:Hacker Move: Do You Have That Thing I gave You? When a member of your team procures equipment that's electronic or mechanical, you may substitute this move for your ally's move. Roll+sharp. On a 10+, they have it. On a 7-9, choose 1: • it is not immediately available • they have it, but it malfunctions • they have something similar
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Aug 25, 2012 00:24
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Cyphoderus posted:Here's a thought experiment. I like it, but maybe the Hacker should be better at procuring than the regular move? Like on a 7-9 he straight up has it but he owes a favor or it costs him something? Otherwise the move could be overshadowed by a teammate with+3 weird.
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Aug 25, 2012 02:36
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BlurryMystr posted:It does seem like the kind of playbook that a campaign should be built around, at least at first. Same thing kinda happens with the Hardholder and (sometimes) Maestro'D playbooks, too, so it's not necessarily a BAD thing, just something that everyone at the table should be aware of and agree to. If you turn that thought around you have a great playbook for players to switch to after someone fucks them over and leaves them for dead. This should make fitting The Fucker into the campaign a snap, she's already part of the game world.
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Aug 25, 2012 04:05
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Evil Mastermind posted:Also holy poo poo the World of Dungeons clones just keep on coming and being awesome. Agh I was just working on this  I'll just turn it into Frontier World instead
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Aug 25, 2012 04:12
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Well after the game I ran tonight, the group was split on what to do for the school year campaign, when suddenly... Player 1: "I like Dungeon World a lot, it was so fun and a blast this system rocks!" Player 2: "I like it too but we're burned out on Fantasy." Player 3: "Hey sci-fi might be neat but I don't like post-apoc." Player 4: "Man I wish you could do Dungeon World with Eclipse Phase, the setting rocks but the rules are too much..." Me:   I know what I must do. My initial thought is something closer to World of Dungeons, where everything is based on d6's with just the modifier for stats, but also finding a way to add in morphs. While this may make playbooks too "crunchy", instead of race I could offer the factions/backgrounds, I could add a FATE-like aspect (just one) for the morph, and Bonds now become rep with all the factions. It may add an extra page to the normal playbook size but could be an absolute blast.
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Aug 25, 2012 04:27
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Fenarisk posted:Well after the game I ran tonight, the group was split on what to do for the school year campaign, when suddenly... When you get all this figured out, let me know, because I want to run Eclipse Phase SO BAD but at the same time I want a more compact system. I'll even help you test it if that's added incentive! InfiniteJesters fucked around with this message at 04:44 on Aug 25, 2012 |
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Aug 25, 2012 04:42
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Fenarisk posted:Player 3: "Hey sci-fi might be neat but I don't like post-apoc." And I'll be ignoring transhumanism completely for completely for my Traveller adaption. Except for the one paragraph where I'll explain where the plateau was and how you can't get around it. Except maybe with psionics.
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Aug 25, 2012 04:50
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Fenarisk posted:Player 4: "Man I wish you could do Dungeon World with Eclipse Phase, the setting rocks but the rules are too much..." Yes. gently caress yes. I wouldn't go for something like World of Dungeons, though - a straight up DW or AW hack would be good. Each morph should offer you +1 to one stat/mod and -1 to another and give you a Special move (no need for sex moves). You can go through the existing morphs and just pick the ones that stand out - they probably don't all deserve their own rules. For playbooks: use Background and Faction as "classes" to translate into playbooks.
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Aug 25, 2012 13:11
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Cyphoderus posted:Here's a thought experiment. Ha, I was just thinking of trying to write up a general Leverage move for a DW Oceans Elven game.
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Aug 25, 2012 13:58
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I've been writing a lot of custom moves lately, it's a total blast and the process helps put you in the mindset for running a *World game. You're like, "what are the rewards here? What are the risks? How can I simplify this?" I think a good custom move has a specific trigger, with broad implications. I wrote When you Meddle With Ancient Dwarven Machinery for a recent game and was able to use it three times during the session without the players knowing they had triggered the same custom move each time. All they saw was the fictional trigger and fictional result- the system is definitely built to put story first.
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Aug 25, 2012 18:35
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If you're doing eclipse phase in *World, I would make the morphs the playbooks. Then for the factions I'd make them a specific move that you get for playing them. The idea I've been playing around with if I can get the cyberpunk game off the ground is for each player to choose a specific move (The Federal, The Martyr, The Gambler, etc.). It'd give them a short run down of how their character fits in to the world, a move where they can mark experience at the cost of letting the MC make a hard move in relation to who they are and one move they can use only once per character that let's them do something big, but requires a roll to see how bad it panned out for them. For example: quote:The Federal Assuming something like that works, you can give some more depth to characters without requiring a whole helluva lot.
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Aug 26, 2012 01:57
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I feel the skillset/stats are what makes a character in Eclipse Phase, with the morph more as equipment. The ego and the skills along with it are the permanent thing through everything that happens. Really, I'm going to design the playbooks as primarily the "role", since EP's sample characters (or even Shadowrun's for that matter) show people fitting into a good niche. If you just go with morphs, it doesn't really allow certain playbooks/playstyles to shine. In addition, you might have a player who really wants to hack things, but doesn't want to be stuck in an exotic Swarmoid morph. What might work to keep it more *world-like and cut down on having to preset options from a book into a custom playbook is have "Races" like Dungeon World split into three things: Background, Faction, and Morph. This way you can have 3 of each as most common for each type (for example Hacker might be Swarmoid, Menton, or Splicer). The other option is to use a playbook styled game, but the character creation would involve just selecting from the usual EP list of morphs/backgrounds/factions and writing it into the sheet, which I personally think is just fine because it only adds maybe 5 minutes of character creation and it's forever there in the playbook, plus if you lose or change the morph you can keep the same playbook, just replace the "morph" line and move/bonuses. Hell, morphs may even just be put as a descriptor the player can "tag" because really the only thing the morph is there for is how you do the moves in fiction (How a bouncer morph fights versus how a novacrab fights).
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Aug 26, 2012 02:25
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Not sure how well EP and *World go together to me, but this came to mind anyways:quote:When you resist the Exurgent Virus, roll +Nano. On a 10+, choose two. On a 7-9, choose one.
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Aug 26, 2012 02:49
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My thoughts on Eclipse Phase: Backgrounds as Dungeon World style 'Race'. Factions instead of Hx/Bonds, measured in Rep. I don't think party interaction is as important in Eclipse Phase. More of a business-like mentality, imo, or shaped by faction affiliation anyway. This might be mucking with AW too much though. Morph as equipment. Most effects are fiction-based, some morphs may have built in weapons (harm values). Maybe a few might give a bonus to a stat, but can't pass cap of +3. Motivations as Dungeon World style 'Alignment'. Replace Weird with Wireless (Wired is anachronistic  ). The other stats still work, but you could maybe rename/reskin some to tie in. Hot becomes Savvy, Sharp becomes Cognition, maybe retool a few of the basic moves.Special moves may relate to re-instancing and lack. It would certainly end up being at least a little more heavy on the PC end, more stuff to keep track of and more built in moves, but still nowhere near as clunky as EP, and it seems a little more appropriate for such a complex setting. Exsurgent Virus, I think, needs custom moves for the Front, depending on the strain. Watts-Macleod as a totally different effect than Glory. Glory might be like the Harm move. Roll+COG. The higher you roll, the worse.
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Aug 26, 2012 04:16
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Apocalypse World + S.T.A.L.K.E.R. You know you want it.
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Aug 26, 2012 06:31
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InfiniteJesters posted:Apocalypse World + S.T.A.L.K.E.R. Pretty sure you could run that with the core set. Great idea for a setting.
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Aug 26, 2012 08:14
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Yeah, I think it's basically just a matter of having several significant Landscape fronts. Especially fitting would probably be Breeding Pit and Fortress. Also, as it says in Advanced Fuckery: Create custom peripheral moves to bring out your own vision of Apocalypse World. You may want a variation on the psychic maelstrom moves, or something like: quote:When you scavenge in the ruins, roll+sharp. e: Although, it might be an interesting shift to play with a "localized" Apocalypse (Apocalypse Zone?). That is, the game works on the presumption that some, even most places in the world are just like they are today, but the characters can't go back there, because they wouldn't be accepted (maybe they're subject to quarantine or justice of some sort), and/or because there's something driving or calling them to the Zone. Doc Hawkins fucked around with this message at 17:35 on Aug 26, 2012 |
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Aug 26, 2012 17:31
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Doc Hawkins posted:e: Although, it might be an interesting shift to play with a "localized" Apocalypse (Apocalypse Zone?). That is, the game works on the presumption that some, even most places in the world are just like they are today, but the characters can't go back there, because they wouldn't be accepted (maybe they're subject to quarantine or justice of some sort), and/or because there's something driving or calling them to the Zone. Or they've got the Bodhisattva Attitude and aren't leaving until they can take all the innocents they can out with them. cf "The Road Warrior". That's pretty much what the hardholder in that movie was doing, working to get his people out.
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Aug 26, 2012 17:43
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For my benefit, would blowing a hole in an enemy's fortifications/walls/pillboxes with high explosives to enable oneself and friends to pour into the breach be an example of Seize by Force?
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Aug 26, 2012 21:38
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Blowing something up isn't a move, so it's all about asking "how?" a lot. What do they use? How do they get it? How do they get it to where it needs to be? How do they use it? How does the enemy try to stop them? Talk it through in the fiction, pay attention to when moves get triggered. Getting a bomb up against a wall is probably acting under fire. Capturing whatever the fortifications are actually fortifying would be seize by force, presumably with using a gang as a weapon.
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Aug 26, 2012 21:51
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Doc Hawkins posted:Blowing something up isn't a move, so it's all about asking "how?" a lot. What do they use? How do they get it? How do they get it to where it needs to be? How do they use it? How does the enemy try to stop them? Talk it through in the fiction, pay attention to when moves get triggered. Yeah, in a play-by-play this would be a lot of snowballing moves. As an off-scene event, it could be Seize by Force (like if the chopper's gang was doing it while he was elsewhere. It'd be more fun as multiple moves, I think, but not necessary.
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Aug 26, 2012 22:00
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John Harper (Agon, World of Dungeons, Lady Blackbird) wants to know if any of you sorry sons of bitches have what it takes to join The Regiment. 
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Aug 27, 2012 04:50
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Doc Hawkins posted:John Harper (Agon, World of Dungeons, Lady Blackbird) wants to know if any of you sorry sons of bitches have what it takes to join The Regiment. I am stealing so much of this for my Traveller hack.
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Aug 27, 2012 05:06
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Doc Hawkins posted:John Harper (Agon, World of Dungeons, Lady Blackbird) wants to know if any of you sorry sons of bitches have what it takes to join The Regiment. Oh, I do, brother. I do.  EDIT: Jagged Alliance hack, anyone? EDITDEUX: http://mightyatom.blogspot.com/2011/07/regiment-super-soldier.html <---Bwahahaha! 
InfiniteJesters fucked around with this message at 13:23 on Aug 27, 2012 |
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Aug 27, 2012 13:16
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I'm slowly updating The Revenant for v4, but in the meantime, another *World-based game just started its Kickstarter. tremulus: a storytelling game of lovecraftian horror quote:Based on the Apocalypse World Engine Apocalypse World + Fiasco + Fate =
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Aug 27, 2012 14:54
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Evil Mastermind posted:I'm slowly updating The Revenant for v4, but in the meantime, another *World-based game just started its Kickstarter. This will be the first KS I back at one of the higher levels!
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Aug 27, 2012 15:31
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Evil Mastermind posted:tremulus: a storytelling game of lovecraftian horror I just found out about this and came in here to share. Apocalypse Engine Cthulhu? Yes. Yes. YES! I want to throw so much money at this, but I'll have to settle for $50 and a hardcover.
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Aug 27, 2012 16:15
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Evil Mastermind posted:I'm slowly updating The Revenant for v4, but in the meantime, another *World-based game just started its Kickstarter. Oh hells yes!
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Aug 27, 2012 16:41
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