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Luminaflare posted:Following this logic doesn't this mean that if they really believed something should work it will even if it shouldn't? RED WUNZ GO FASTA?
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Aug 20, 2012 20:47
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NovemberMike posted:IIRC there's actually idea going around that wizards tend to push their understanding of reality onto the real world. If they accept something then this doesn't cause problems, but if it feels unnatural to them then it pushes the things they don't understand in multiple directions metaphorically until they stop working. I think Molly can still use cell phones and such, and older wizards had problems with steam engines. This isn't quite how it works. Molly still fries her ipod and cell phone and has difficulties with computers in general, same as Harry. Harry described it more as a law of magic that changed over time, and that tended to correlate with how powerful you were, more than a personal belief thing. My guess is that wizards born about fifty years from now could use a modern smartphone but would have real difficulty with whatever quantum supergadget all the cool kids have in 2060.
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Aug 20, 2012 20:52
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Poopy Palpy posted:You mean, like a wizard could create a jet of flame without any source or cause bullets to bounce off of nothing if he believed it would work? That'd be pretty cool. No, I mean like a Wizard being convinced that say a cars top speed is actually twice what it should be and it actually going that fast. Kerbtree posted:RED WUNZ GO FASTA? Actually... I didn't think of this when typing the post but pretty much that, yeah.
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Aug 20, 2012 20:56
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Luminaflare posted:So would this mean that if a wizard was an engineer, electrician or something like that stuff which they understand would just work? If this is actually how it is supposed to work then I want to know why so many Wizards didn't believe in dairy. One of the examples Harry gives is Milk used to turn bad around Wizards.
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Aug 20, 2012 21:02
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Clinton1011 posted:If this is actually how it is supposed to work then I want to know why so many Wizards didn't believe in dairy. One of the examples Harry gives is Milk used to turn bad around Wizards. You just squeeze the cow, white stuff comes out and you're supposed to drink that? I dunno, that's pretty weird.
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Aug 20, 2012 21:51
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Nah it makes no sense, I doubt Harry knows exactly how his car works and that still works for him. When it's not smashes to bits.
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Aug 20, 2012 22:55
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Luminaflare posted:So would this mean that if a wizard was an engineer, electrician or something like that stuff which they understand would just work? Doesn't Harry at one point mention how it is his belief that the color blue is tied to defense? Perhaps this explains the nigh-immortality of the Blue Beetle?
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Aug 20, 2012 22:59
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Mr. Bad Guy posted:Doesn't Harry at one point mention how it is his belief that the color blue is tied to defense? Perhaps this explains the nigh-immortality of the Blue Beetle? I recall it being more like a clown car with all different-coloured parts. Pretty sure Murphy even calls it that at some point. I think the Beetle has just been enlightened and ascended to some form of near-immortality.
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Aug 20, 2012 23:40
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Yeah, it was originally blue but had to be replaced with whatever spare bits the scrapyard had. I imagine it looking very patchwork, like a hobo coat. E: the internet has given me a fan's concept from book descriptions: 
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Aug 21, 2012 00:56
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My take on it is its not the belief of a particular wizard that causes the tech fritzing but a persistent low grade belief among those few regular people who even think about it nowadays that science and technology are opposed to magic and crowded it out over the course of the scientific and industrial revolutions. The patchiness of the antitechness is due to less belief in the polar nature than the belief that magic was inimical to life in the middle ages.
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Aug 21, 2012 01:14
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What you're forgetting is that the law of magic is constantly changing and the whole ether is in constant motion. That's why wizards of the past caused flames to be blue and caused people to grow warts. One of the reasons for why Harry keeps Bob around is just because of that. Bob is able to keep track of the changes of the laws of magic and accordingly educate Harry whenever that happens. I would imagine that the change would be gradual, unless you happen to genocide a large predator species and everything goes to hell. Harry mentioning keeping Bob around because magic laws changes and Bob can keep track of it was referenced somewhere. I just finished marathoning the books.
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Aug 21, 2012 01:35
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Mercury Hat posted:Yeah, it was originally blue but had to be replaced with whatever spare bits the scrapyard had. I imagine it looking very patchwork, like a hobo coat. It's missing the bit of wire holding the front-trunk down ever since the chlorofiend attack.
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Aug 21, 2012 01:55
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404GoonNotFound posted:It's missing the bit of wire holding the front-trunk down ever since the chlorofiend attack. When I travel to California for work, I stay in a hotel about two blocks from my office. I walk past this beauty every day:  There's even wire holding the rear hatch down. Edit: Oh yeah, the interior of this thing was eaten by mold demons. It's mostly bare wood and some scraps of cloth. ConfusedUs fucked around with this message at 02:04 on Aug 21, 2012 |
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Aug 21, 2012 02:01
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Iced Cocoa posted:What you're forgetting is that the law of magic is constantly changing and the whole ether is in constant motion. That's why wizards of the past caused flames to be blue and caused people to grow warts. One of the reasons for why Harry keeps Bob around is just because of that. Bob is able to keep track of the changes of the laws of magic and accordingly educate Harry whenever that happens. I would imagine that the change would be gradual, unless you happen to genocide a large predator species and everything goes to hell. That actually supports my theory People are People they don't stay the smae.
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Aug 21, 2012 04:14
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Mercury Hat posted:Yeah, it was originally blue but had to be replaced with whatever spare bits the scrapyard had. I imagine it looking very patchwork, like a hobo coat. Not enough bondo.
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Aug 21, 2012 04:25
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Luminaflare posted:No, I mean like a Wizard being convinced that say a cars top speed is actually twice what it should be and it actually going that fast. Well, yes. The method for doing it would probably depend on the wizard, but doesn't Harry cause Murph's harley to accelerate faster than it should (and stick to the road better?) by altering the wind resistance and the mass of the bike and stuff? Magic seems to be simply the act of imposing your will and causing something to be true. Harry even says that each wizard does it differently. Like he uses different coloured candles for different things (blue for defense), but he says it's a personal thing and that it's like that for him because that's how he was taught / believes it works. Other things seem to be more like natural laws (iron harms the fae, garlic hurts Black Court vampires, supernatural beings don't exactly have free will).
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Aug 21, 2012 04:34
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There is some logic behind magic as well. It has more to do with separating believe from science actually. Harry has actual belief behind magic, akin to a religion. That's one of the reasons for why his five-star pendant works against creatures that are weak to religious icons. One of the short stories actually goes a bit into this thing. It's the one where Thomas is the narrator. He says pretty clearly that Harry is being a bit foolish for injecting his religion bullshit into magic, and Thomas approaches magic as a science, cold, methodical, and it works. His main respect for Harry's magical powers simply comes from that Harry can do a lot of it and can plot a bit more of it. But it works for Harry. Blue of defense, red for offense or love. It might be that believing is a good crutch for using one's power. Harry even admits that it was something he was taught, and it is possible that it doesn't really have to work that way. For instance red or pink was used in the past to ward off evil. That sounds quite like defense.
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Aug 21, 2012 09:32
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Well, certain things seem to be constants. A certain amount of energy is needed to form an effect. No matter what, if you want to blow up a building, you need to get that power from somewhere. A certain amount of energy is needed to guide and shape an effect. Skill and experience dramatically cuts down on this. Belief seems to substitute for skill in a lot of places, which is important in Harry's case because hes pretty slapdash for a wizard. Alternatively it might be because of Harry's magical background. DuMourne seems to teach based on strength of will from what we've seen, using the willingness to blow a few fuses to eke out an effect. Ebenezar was focused on magic as physics, which does wonders for moving power around (because you could let physics do the heavy lifting of control), but also limits the things you can easily do with the power. So Harry's magic obeys energy use pretty strictly.
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Aug 21, 2012 11:35
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This thread (or rather, the old version of this thread) convinced me to buy and read Midnight Riot, which I finished last night. It was great! Thanks thread!
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Aug 21, 2012 13:21
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ConfusedUs posted:
this news came as a surprise to my FLBS they diddnt even know when it was comming out, he thought i was pulling his leg as the publisher down here (AusTralia) was saying 2013 still. bet him a free copy of the book they were wrong. cheapest dresden files book ever.
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Aug 21, 2012 15:27
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Book 14, Cold Days will hit stores November 27th, 2012.
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also as for the magic thing jim goes over it in many of his interview's on youtbe and there is a Word of jim post about it you can look for the videos if you want ive seen him go through it about 3 different times on youtube. http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,21772.msg947672.html#msg947672 As technology advances, will wizards become marginalized? It sort of depends on where magic goes. Magic wasn’t always screwing up post WW2 tech. Before WW2 magic had other effects. It sorta changes slowly over time, and about every 3 centuries it rolls over into something else. At one time, instead of magic making machines flip out it made cream go bad. Before that magic made weird molls on your skin and fire would burn slightly different colors when you were around it. I do mention this in Ghost story (in passing). It’s not really aware or something like that, but it is something that changes along with the people who use it. also from the same thread a except form patrick rothfuss's interview of jimbutcher included here -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Dh9R_VtWRI PR: So, do you, yourself, when you're writing them, do you draw lines in your head between, say, the sort of magic that Harry does and the sort of magic the people in Bayport are capable of? Or is it just an issue of skill and quantity? JB: Well, it's all a little bit different, but everyone interacts with that kind of energy in a different way. For instance, wizards cause disruptions in technology and other things around them because, you know, people are never all one thing or all the other, people are a conflicted group of weirdos, and so when you have human beings that are using magic, that sort of self-inner conflict, that's one of the side-effects that comes out, that's why they wreck things that are around them. If you're a fairy who's using magic, you're doing the same thing as a human being, but you don't have that cluttered human nature. You can sit around as a fairy and play X-box all you want, you're never going to ruin it, and still be an awesome wizard, but not as Dresden.
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Aug 21, 2012 15:45
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Oldmangray posted:this news came as a surprise to my FLBS they diddnt even know when it was comming out, he thought i was pulling his leg as the publisher down here (AusTralia) was saying 2013 still. bet him a free copy of the book they were wrong. cheapest dresden files book ever. Well, you know there are frequently delays in the release of various media based on geography, right? Right. I have no idea if the Nov 27th date holds true for Australia.
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Aug 21, 2012 15:49
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Yeah it does(hopefully) they usually get the books a week before and have them for sale on the street date. only pan macmillion books sometimes dick about with australian release's hench why im getting a free book  just had to get someone on the line who knew what was what took about half hour of being reccommned books. Oldmangray fucked around with this message at 15:57 on Aug 21, 2012 |
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Aug 21, 2012 15:53
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Has anything been announced for the paperback release? Have all the other books as paperback and can't really justify 23 euros for a book I will finish in a day or two.
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Aug 21, 2012 20:43
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Ika posted:Has anything been announced for the paperback release? Have all the other books as paperback and can't really justify 23 euros for a book I will finish in a day or two. Paperback will be out about 6-8 months after hardcover, like every book release ever.
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Aug 21, 2012 22:09
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ConfusedUs posted:Paperback will be out about 6-8 months after hardcover, like every book release ever. Depending on the series I've seen almost simultaneous releases, was hoping this would also be the case.
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Aug 21, 2012 22:15
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Ika posted:Depending on the series I've seen almost simultaneous releases, was hoping this would also be the case. Well the Ghost Story paperback just came out. Dresden doesn't have simultaneous releases.
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Aug 21, 2012 22:43
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Ice Phisherman posted:This may seem a bit spergy, but a bolt action or a lever action rifle don't have that many moving parts. You really can't get much more simple than a revolver, but something like the old 1870's Winchester lever action rifle is incredibly simple, easy to use and easy to maintain. Also, my buddy owns a Mosin that is nearly 100 years old and it still works. Most Mosins out there are older than nearly everyone you know and a decently maintained one will still fire. I also saw my first bolt action shotgun a few weeks ago, though I have no idea why someone would need one. Hell, a Glock (modern autoloading pistol) only has 35 parts, total. A S&W 686 (revolver) has 83 parts. I've heard reports of Glocks having tens of thousands of rounds fired through them without cleaning with no malfunctions. While revolvers are widely regarded as being more reliable, it isn't because they are simpler. Autoloading pistols are much easier to take apart and repair than revolvers as well, since revolvers are very dependent on their timing in order to function correctly and safely. How things work in the real world does not seem to factor in to Dresden's views on guns. In summary: veekie posted:Harry's just a revolver bigot. I'm of the opinion that the reason modern technology malfunctions around wizards in the Dresden universe is that it's a bleed-through of their belief in the technology's reliability. Because wizards know that they disrupt technology. Just like wizards back in the day knew that they curdled milk and caused flames to burn funny colors. Possibly this is based more on a greater consensus of wizards / humanity rather than an individual's beliefs, causing the changing trends in magic over time as different generations grow up with different views on what freaky side effects wizards have. nightchild12 fucked around with this message at 22:50 on Aug 21, 2012 |
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Aug 21, 2012 22:46
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nightchild12 posted:How things work in the real world does not seem to factor in to Dresden's views on guns. Stop dragging reality into my fantasy fiction 
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Aug 21, 2012 22:58
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nightchild12 posted:Hell, a Glock (modern autoloading pistol) only has 35 parts, total. A S&W 686 (revolver) has 83 parts. I've heard reports of Glocks having tens of thousands of rounds fired through them without cleaning with no malfunctions. While revolvers are widely regarded as being more reliable, it isn't because they are simpler. Autoloading pistols are much easier to take apart and repair than revolvers as well, since revolvers are very dependent on their timing in order to function correctly and safely. How things work in the real world does not seem to factor in to Dresden's views on guns. And wizards live a long time, 300 years or more, so perhaps it shifts as wizards with a particular set of beliefs die out and the next generations come to power. Well, it sounds good at least.
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Aug 22, 2012 01:00
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Clinton1011 posted:If this is actually how it is supposed to work then I want to know why so many Wizards didn't believe in dairy. One of the examples Harry gives is Milk used to turn bad around Wizards. Probably because most people are lactose intolerant. It is a gene that popped up in Scandanavia and has slowly spread through most of the white population (only 5% lactose intolerant) but sees a 90% rate in asian and african countries. If me drinking milk makes me sick, clearly drinking milk is bad, ergo the milk goes bad. Time goes on and more become lactose tolerant, or see that more people can drink it, or understand what being lactose intolerant is, it stops making milk go bad. Fried Chicken fucked around with this message at 04:53 on Aug 22, 2012 |
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Aug 22, 2012 04:51
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I've always liked the hat.
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Aug 22, 2012 23:18
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On the dresdent front, there's to be a Molly pov in the upcoming Grrm collection of stories about Dangerous women. Source was that fan twitter but they did mention a release date of possibly November. Source is suspect though - nothing on Jim's twitter directly.
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Aug 23, 2012 01:19
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Tithin Melias posted:On the dresdent front, there's to be a Molly pov in the upcoming Grrm collection of stories about Dangerous women. Source was that fan twitter but they did mention a release date of possibly November. Source is suspect though - nothing on Jim's twitter directly. I'm pretty sure I've heard about this before.
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Aug 23, 2012 02:02
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ConfusedUs posted:I'm pretty sure I've heard about this before. Yep, I have too. I don't follow twitter or scour his site for word of jim posts, so I'm also pretty sure it was brought up a few times in the last thread.
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Aug 23, 2012 02:22
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In the case of guns, evidence seems to say that guns of most types work fine. Harry's warned about them failing lots of times, but it never comes to pass.
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Aug 23, 2012 12:58
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veekie posted:In the case of guns, evidence seems to say that guns of most types work fine. Harry's warned about them failing lots of times, but it never comes to pass. Harry is probably the sort of absent-minded dude who leaves the clips loaded in a drawer and then is surprised when the springs get deformed and cause a jam.
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Aug 23, 2012 13:12
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navyjack posted:Harry is probably the sort of absent-minded dude who leaves the clips loaded in a drawer and then is surprised when the springs get deformed and cause a jam. That is a myth. Also not to sperg out with gun chat, but a gun like a 1911 'controls' the round being chambered 100%, whereas something like a glock starts it on that path, and leaves it up to its original momentum. what can go wrong will go wrong around the wizard especially when physics takes a break. I started with storm front a while ago, and worked my way up to ghost story today. Its really nice to see the progression of harry's powers book to book, with the biggest boon coming from molly's training for a couple years.
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Aug 23, 2012 14:17
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Roundboy posted:That is a myth. Agreed on the spring deformation thing, the only that that will ruin a spring is constant flexing or bending it in a way it is not meant to bend. I have friends who unloaded magazines from WWII they found in a trunk in their grandfathers attic and they worked like new (discounting any rust). If I remember correctly: in the books there is only a single incident of gun jamming being a plot point, when harry is being sprayed down with full-auto weapons at close range. Semi-auto has never jammed, the wardens (Ramirez and all the babby wardens, even though Ramirez starts compensating a little bit and picks up a Desert Eagle around the time of White Night) all use Glock pistols and seem to never have them jam. Revolvers actually have way more complex internal mechanisms than semi-auto pistols, and would in reality be more likely to jam from any physics fuckery. All of that said, it's Magic. poo poo can do whatever it wants at the weirdest moments. I mean, what's up with the super fancy floating cloud of shiny dust motes looking computers they had at Monoc headquarters? And if the Sidhe are so magic inherently, why is it they have cell phones and fancy gadgets occasionally? VVV And then they were three. DJ_Ferret fucked around with this message at 16:03 on Aug 23, 2012 |
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Aug 23, 2012 16:00
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navyjack posted:Harry is probably the sort of absent-minded dude who leaves the clips loaded in a drawer and then is surprised when the springs get deformed and cause a jam. Springs don't work like that.
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Aug 23, 2012 16:01
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