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Throatwarbler posted:During that period GM had *checks notes* 6 different V6 engine families in its lineup i mean the reason that they aren't certifiying more drivetrains is that they appear to have actually learned a lesson from the early 2000s.
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May 20, 2020 12:14
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cakesmith handyman posted:I only know that because of your megatruck engine shenanigans. How are you thinking of getting that cross country if you get everything else in a trailer? I'm debating selling it and buying a wrecker 5 ton on the other side of the country. I need a wrecker way more than a cargo truck anyways. BigPaddy posted:Chevy, Olds, Buick and Pontiac V8 are all entirely different. Olds, Buick and Pontiac share the bellhousing pattern so you can interchange the trans but that is about it. Want to use a chevy distributor in a Pontiac? Nope they turn different directions. All the engine mounts are different as well so you can’t just use a LS mount kit without modifying the frame mounts on most B bodies, A bodies there are kits since the frames are the same. I... Uh... This offends me in ways I thought impossible. kastein fucked around with this message at 13:21 on May 20, 2020 |
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May 20, 2020 13:19
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Please, give the Olds 307 its due.
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May 20, 2020 13:38
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C-Bangin' it 
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All the GM brands were run as competitors for a very long time.
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May 20, 2020 13:48
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wesleywillis posted:IIRC, the 402 was just some weirded out version of the 396 that got a slightly bigger bore or something right? And it was installed in "396" cars and called a 396, but it just happened to be 402ci instead was it not? That's surprisingly complicated, actually. In the Chevelle and Camaro it was still billed as a 396, presumably so they didn't have to throw out the SS396 badges. In the Monte Carlo and C10 pickup it was advertised as the 402. In (some?) full-size cars it was the Turbo- Q_res fucked around with this message at 16:18 on May 20, 2020 |
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May 20, 2020 14:52
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Q_res posted:That's surprisingly complicated, actually. In the Chevelle and Camaro it was still billed as a 396, presumably so they didn't have to throw out the SS396 badges. In the Monte Carlo and C10 pickup it was advertised as the 402. In (some?) full-size cars it was the Turbo-Fire 400. The Turbo-Fire 400 was the 400 small block The Turbo-Jet 400 was the 402 big block
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May 20, 2020 16:09
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Oops, right you are. Though I feel like me mixing up those two remarkably similar names is pretty understandable.
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May 20, 2020 16:22
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Thanks to all. Just wanted to give props because holy heck I didn't know about the 402 so I learned something. And somehow it exists in terrible car stuff.
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May 20, 2020 16:56
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Colostomy Bag posted:Please, give the Olds 307 its due. The Olds 307 is basically the 60s Olds 350 with a reduced bore. Because of this, some people have improved the performance of their late 80s GM cars by swapping in an engine manufactured twenty years earlier, which is not how technological progress is supposed to work.
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May 20, 2020 19:19
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Colostomy Bag posted:Please, give the Olds 307 its due. It never got fuel injecton. 
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May 20, 2020 19:35
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Q_res posted:Chevy, Buick, Oldsmobile and Pontiac all also built their own, unique 350s. And if you define a big block as an engine "capable of reaching comfortably over 400 cubic inches with a bore spacing of at least 4.500 inches" the Chevy and Buick 350s would be considered small blocks and the other two big blocks. I know technically nobody uses "Big Block" in relation to Pontiac because the 301, 303, 326, 350, 389, 400, 421, 428 and 455 are all the same block. But if you use that universal definition it does fit. The Buick and Olds engines follow the same pattern as Pontiac. No true “big block” - the 400 cube and up engines are just a taller deck version of the “small block”. Can use the same heads, and front dress, water pump, timing cover. Intakes are wider, of course, so not interchangeable between small and big block, and the dizzy is taller.
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May 20, 2020 21:35
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kastein posted:I... Uh... This offends me in ways I thought impossible. I’d also point out that just throwing a SBC in a non-Chevy of the era is also generally offensive to the officianados of said cars. Even worse than an SBC in a Ford, sometimes. I own a ‘70 Olds, proudly Olds-powered for the time being Fornax Disaster posted:The Olds 307 is basically the 60s Olds 350 with a reduced bore. Because of this, some people have improved the performance of their late 80s GM cars by swapping in an engine manufactured twenty years earlier, which is not how technological progress is supposed to work. The 260 Olds, on the other hand, not only has tiny bores, but a shorter deck than the “small block” Olds. At least it could make V8 noises, and easily bolt up to existing chassis and drivetrains. Likewise, it could be easily replaced by a much better engine. Goober Peas posted:It never got fuel injecton. Not as such, but the 350 Olds did, in the Cadillac Seville (and *only* the Cadillac’s Seville!), and the it could be swapped to the 307, if you wanted to do that for some reason. They really should have put EFI on at least the roller-cam 307 in the Hurst Olds.
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May 20, 2020 21:43
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A new rotary from Mazda being taken to bits to check it's up to scratch. Yikes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6YFQQ7FiIk
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May 20, 2020 23:12
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wesleywillis posted:IIRC, the 402 was just some weirded out version of the 396 that got a slightly bigger bore or something right? And it was installed in "396" cars and called a 396, but it just happened to be 402ci instead was it not? The apocryphal story that got posted on the 67-72 boards all the time was that there was apparently some water damage event (flood? sprinkler? idk) that caused minor damage to a shitload of blocks that was dealt with by machining the bores slightly larger instead of scrapping all the blocks. Sounds crazy, but given old GM, it's at least somewhat believable.
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May 20, 2020 23:25
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Olympic Mathlete posted:A new rotary from Mazda being taken to bits to check it's up to scratch. Yikes. I think the info floating around about that motor is that it had actually clearly been opened before based on the sealant used and some other poo poo
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May 20, 2020 23:27
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Darchangel posted:The Buick and Olds engines follow the same pattern as Pontiac. No true “big block” - the 400 cube and up engines are just a taller deck version of the “small block”. Can use the same heads, and front dress, water pump, timing cover. Intakes are wider, of course, so not interchangeable between small and big block, and the dizzy is taller. Bore spacing between a Buick 350 (4.240")and a Buick 455 (4.750") are completely different, the 350 shares its block with the 300 and 340. I literally acknowledged that Pontiac only had one block, but by comparing it to companies that had a SB and a BB you can see that it would comfortably classify as a BB. Q_res fucked around with this message at 00:42 on May 21, 2020 |
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May 21, 2020 00:18
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Olympic Mathlete posted:A new rotary from Mazda being taken to bits to check it's up to scratch. Yikes. That shot at 4:54 when he spins it on the stand and it starts pissing brown water is 
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May 21, 2020 00:28
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Colostomy Bag posted:Please, give the Olds 307 its due. emf fucked around with this message at 02:04 on May 21, 2020 |
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May 21, 2020 00:41
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If Olds had been a little earlier with the 307 HO it very likely could have ended up in the 3rd gen Firebird. It was one of the alternatives they considered after GM killed the 301 Turbo.
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May 21, 2020 00:45
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That reminds me of at least one other Stupid GM Fact - they built three different five liter GenI SBC engines over the years. 302, 305, and 307.
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May 21, 2020 01:11
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That one I actually give them a pass on, those engines all pretty much made perfect sense for their purpose and the timeframe of their introduction. Only the 302 and 307 were really contemporaries and they were very much opposite sides of the same coin. The 305 made perfect sense as a replacement for the 307 because it let you use 350 components you were already building.
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May 21, 2020 01:20
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That engine is such a cute little cube, I want to love it.
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May 21, 2020 01:26
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IOwnCalculus posted:That reminds me of at least one other Stupid GM Fact - they built three different five liter GenI SBC engines over the years. 302, 305, and 307. Yeah, and only one is worth a drat.
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May 21, 2020 02:54
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So does anyone actually like any Gm products
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May 21, 2020 03:02
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I've willingly owned two GMs. 
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May 21, 2020 03:16
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I've had an 85 Monte Carlo with a 350, a Buick GN, and a 93 S10 manual I miss the GN and S10.
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May 21, 2020 04:15
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Throatwarbler posted:So does anyone actually like any Gm products I own three and I want to put a GM engine in the one that isn't.
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May 21, 2020 04:27
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oldsmobile was cool, rip to a real one
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May 21, 2020 04:38
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I'm still looking for a late 80s cadillac brougham sedan in good shape for a not ridiculous price. The 5 litre will be replaced with an LS because why not?
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May 21, 2020 04:41
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Throatwarbler posted:So does anyone actually like any Gm products The mid 80s-early 90s S-10 is a decent compact pickup with great parts availability thanks to Grumman LLVs.
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May 21, 2020 04:48
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Colostomy Bag posted:Please, give the Olds 307 its due. Which one? The limp-wristed 140-hp version or the 180-hp HO version the 80s 442 used? Either way, just gimme a SBC or a LS. coupedeville posted:I'm still looking for a late 80s cadillac brougham sedan in good shape for a not ridiculous price. The 5 litre will be replaced with an LS because why not? Had this post happened sometime around late 2009, I could have sold you mine for a song. I had a Gen II LT1 swap in mind, but those plans never gelled. Throatwarbler posted:So does anyone actually like any Gm products Anything Northstar-powered, but I'm pretty sure that's listed somewhere in the DSM-IV as a mental illness. The present-gen Impala's pretty neat 
90s Solo Cup fucked around with this message at 05:33 on May 21, 2020 |
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May 21, 2020 05:30
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Throatwarbler posted:So does anyone actually like any Gm products I liked the 4th gen F-bodies (owned an LT1 and LS1 Z28), and the Holden-bred Pontiac GTO (had one). Also liked the Corvette and V-series Cadillacs but those are/were too rich for my blood.
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May 21, 2020 05:35
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I currently have an 85 El Camino, I've raced a ton of 3rd gen Camaros, I've owned several J-bodies, 3 suburbans, a K20 pickup with 16.5 HMMWV wheels/tires, the Isuzu S10 clone, and my daily (state car) is an Impala. So yeah, I've got some GM baggage.
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May 21, 2020 06:05
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The 305 was IIRC basically a 327 with a crank from a 283? And of course, the requisite heads etc that flowed worse than a 327 etc...
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May 21, 2020 11:50
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wesleywillis posted:The 305 was IIRC basically a 327 with a crank from a 283? Nah, the 305 was a new block with a goofy bore size and a 350 crank. The 307 was a 283 with a 327 crank. At least the 307 was rated for a full 200 hp  .
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May 21, 2020 13:16
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Yeah what he said. 302 = 327 with 283 crank 307 = 283 with 327 crank 305 = 350 with skinny bores
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May 21, 2020 14:10
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90s Solo Cup posted:
Seek help.
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May 21, 2020 14:35
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Q_res posted:Bore spacing between a Buick 350 (4.240")and a Buick 455 (4.750") are completely different, the 350 shares its block with the 300 and 340. I literally acknowledged that Pontiac only had one block, but by comparing it to companies that had a SB and a BB you can see that it would comfortably classify as a BB. Whoops, you're right on the Buick. I'm not an expert on them - Olds is my jam. Q_res posted:If Olds had been a little earlier with the 307 HO it very likely could have ended up in the 3rd gen Firebird. It was one of the alternatives they considered after GM killed the 301 Turbo. There's a precedent for that, considering that the later 6.6 Trans Ams were Olds 403s. Throatwarbler posted:So does anyone actually like any Gm products I've owned my '70 Cutlass for almost 30 years, and have had a '68 El Camino (regret selling), a '78 Monza, and an '81 Buick Regal, and enjoyed them all until they broke.No worse than any other hooptie I've owned. My wife bought and drove a '96 GMC Sonoma (manual, new), and a '00 Astro (used, but in '01), and they were fine. Current stuff is too expensive for what it is, but that really applies to a lot of the manufacturers, in my opinion. I like the new Vettes, and Caddy V-stuff as well, but LOL at affording that poo poo. Would have liked a G8 or Holden-based SS.
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May 21, 2020 16:45
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We poo poo on every manufacturer fairly equally. GM takes the biggest hit just due to their size and the '70s '80s era of malaise (which of course was focused on via a documentary). But good lord, back then if you told me that they could crank out something like the C8 I would think you were sniffing glue. In short: All car companies have smart engineers. But bean counters and bad management usually ruin it all.
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May 21, 2020 18:01
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i think people really poo poo on GM because of their patented habit of releasing kind of poo poo or otherwise nerfed product that has potential, dicking around, making it good, and then immediately killing it
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May 21, 2020 18:11
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