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MRLOLAST
May 9, 2013

leper khan posted:

One of my goals during tournaments is to limit my exposure to busting out. I've adopted a strategy of playing conservatively until the blinds start catching up with me then transitioning to a looser style aimed at stealing pots rather than chasing thin value. It's been working out really well in the micros. I'm almost never in large pots unless I have a monster of a hand.

Absolutely, that's is the way to play in the wild west of the micros. Tight as a clam and make large raises with good hands. Reraise a lot , 6x ,8x just to get the fishermen out. The real fish will call. Playing a bounty hunter right now and got quad queens vs 3 opponents. The flop was all clubs with a queen so I check called and the beautiful lady came on the turn. I even got paid off :)
Was praying for the board to pair but this was so much better. And I managed to get a split on another hand when I had QQ vs KK, the board made a straight lol. So chip leader and 5 bounties so far. The old check raise the smaller stacks on a flopped set or a 2 pair is my go to method vs these over aggressive flop inspectors.
I mean these guys are so innocent I can tell exactly what they have depending on their bet sizes. Apparently online poker just recently got legal in Switzerland so this is like old school full tilt.
**Busted out, got completely card dead. Went from chip leader to busted out in an hour. Did not connect with any cards at all and just had to fold all my raises to re-raises . I think I played 7 hands and did not during that time and failed to gain any chips from them.

MRLOLAST fucked around with this message at 16:24 on Sep 11, 2021

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Mrenda
Mar 14, 2012

MRLOLAST posted:

Absolutely, that's is the way to play in the wild west of the micros. Tight as a clam and make large raises with good hands. Reraise a lot , 6x ,8x just to get the fishermen out. The real fish will call. Playing a bounty hunter right now and got quad queens vs 3 opponents. The flop was all clubs with a queen so I check called and the beautiful lady came on the turn. I even got paid off :)
Was praying for the board to pair but this was so much better. And I managed to get a split on another hand when I had QQ vs KK, the board made a straight lol. So chip leader and 5 bounties so far. The old check raise the smaller stacks on a flopped set or a 2 pair is my go to method vs these over aggressive flop inspectors.
I mean these guys are so innocent I can tell exactly what they have depending on their bet sizes. Apparently online poker just recently got legal in Switzerland so this is like old school full tilt.

You're saying all this, about "telling what they have depending on their bet sizes" but I've found in an average tournament table and a lot of cash tables there's such a mix of people playing somewhat tight and other people playing like lunatics, that in cash games you need to have your pre-flop game really down, and in tournaments you need to run above average to stay ahead of blind increases. You're just dealing with too many variables to isolate any one or two things out.

I fully admit I'm not good enough to know when or how to play the hands I'm dealt pre-flop, but with the unpredictability of a really, really microstakes game I'm not sure I can learn how to do that, plus learn how to finish out post-flop, without spending months grinding.

MRLOLAST
May 9, 2013

Mrenda posted:

You're saying all this, about "telling what they have depending on their bet sizes" but I've found in an average tournament table and a lot of cash tables there's such a mix of people playing somewhat tight and other people playing like lunatics, that in cash games you need to have your pre-flop game really down, and in tournaments you need to run above average to stay ahead of blind increases. You're just dealing with too many variables to isolate any one or two things out.

I fully admit I'm not good enough to know when or how to play the hands I'm dealt pre-flop, but with the unpredictability of a really, really microstakes game I'm not sure I can learn how to do that, plus learn how to finish out post-flop, without spending months grinding.

I'm tournament you spend a lot of time with the same people. Here if they min bet it means that they didn't hit the flop and are looking to get a free card . A bit like in limit, so as long as you got a little sometimes, something a nice re raise is pretty profitable on the flop especially if you are coming from the button. Their river bets are also extremely telling how good of a hand they have . Well if you have a read that it's a fish. Someone experienced will probably pick up that I like to raise rivers when the bettor seems like he is trying to steal the river with a bet after a passive round and exploit the gently caress out of me .

MRLOLAST fucked around with this message at 16:39 on Sep 11, 2021

leper khan
Dec 28, 2010
Honest to god thinks Half Life 2 is a bad game. But at least he likes Monster Hunter.

MRLOLAST posted:

Absolutely, that's is the way to play in the wild west of the micros. Tight as a clam and make large raises with good hands. Reraise a lot , 6x ,8x just to get the fishermen out. The real fish will call. Playing a bounty hunter right now and got quad queens vs 3 opponents. The flop was all clubs with a queen so I check called and the beautiful lady came on the turn. I even got paid off :)
Was praying for the board to pair but this was so much better. And I managed to get a split on another hand when I had QQ vs KK, the board made a straight lol. So chip leader and 5 bounties so far. The old check raise the smaller stacks on a flopped set or a 2 pair is my go to method vs these over aggressive flop inspectors.
I mean these guys are so innocent I can tell exactly what they have depending on their bet sizes. Apparently online poker just recently got legal in Switzerland so this is like old school full tilt.
**Busted out, got completely card dead. Went from chip leader to busted out in an hour. Did not connect with any cards at all and just had to fold all my raises to re-raises . I think I played 7 hands and did not during that time and failed to gain any chips from them.

6x-8x is way too big. You don't need to put your stack at risk for same/similar effect like that. Throwing too much money in pre means you can't really do anything but lose all of it on the flop.

MRLOLAST
May 9, 2013

leper khan posted:

6x-8x is way too big. You don't need to put your stack at risk for same/similar effect like that. Throwing too much money in pre means you can't really do anything but lose all of it on the flop.

A re-raise is not respected by the fish in the beginning when the stacks are deep. Later of course you use the min raise button once the crazies have been knocked out.
Joined a 30 CHF knockoff tournament. Here the hand selection and aggressivity is more like everywhere else, so much more familiar environment. Play tight, be patient and you will be rewarded. Small stacks Still donate, just need to know when you are good or not and not get unlucky. Every hand is a bit like on the bubble.
Went out on AJ my nemesis hand as usual. I called a raise .. always re raise with AJ .. called a raise and he had A8 and hit 2 pair , I donk led away like a dummy because I am tired and aggressive.

MRLOLAST fucked around with this message at 21:35 on Sep 11, 2021

mfcrocker
Jan 31, 2004



Hot Rope Guy

MRLOLAST posted:

A re-raise is not respected by the fish in the beginning when the stacks are deep. Later of course you use the min raise button once the crazies have been knocked out.
Joined a 30 CHF knockoff tournament. Here the hand selection and aggressivity is more like everywhere else, so much more familiar environment. Play tight, be patient and you will be rewarded. Small stacks Still donate, just need to know when you are good or not and not get unlucky. Every hand is a bit like on the bubble.
Went out on AJ my nemesis hand as usual. I called a raise .. always re raise with AJ .. called a raise and he had A8 and hit 2 pair , I donk led away like a dummy because I am tired and aggressive.

Your advice in this thread has been really poor and you should probably stop dishing it out.

Mr. Toodles
Jun 22, 2004

I support prison abolition, except for posters without avatars.
This might be more of a BBV, but I won the 8 max PLO8 $50 freeroll this afternoon on America's cardroom for a whopping $8.27. it would probably be a lot easier for me to just actually deposit, but I don't want to do crypto.

MRLOLAST
May 9, 2013

mfcrocker posted:

Your advice in this thread has been really poor and you should probably stop dishing it out.

It's ok, I had my 24h orgy of poker and now I am done for the year. I got my monies worth of entertainment. I know I can do well in 1 tournament when I warm up and play it but no way do I have the patience or the mentality to play long term profitable. Regarding the raises at micro when at 200 BB , I am no expert it's just so wild that that is the the way it works for me. Play tighter and play good hands- re raise or raise bigger than normal to make them fold, hands like re-raise A10s , KQ.
Lots of people there seems to see any Ace and min raise it. And lots of them will also not drop it when re-raised. But they will drop limped connectors and semi- connectors vs a larger raise making your life easier post flop.
They limp from whatever position.. even button, If I see A10 in the small blind so I make it 4x. I raise 4x.. they tank and fold.. or they call and you know they are drawing or they instantly go all in and you know they have you beat.
Raise 2x there and they will flat with such a huge range that you won't have any idea. Everything from Ax to 7,9o.
So now comes the flop.. you miss, do you continuation bet? Not knowing what the other have? Or do you check..if you check they either check or bet 1/3rd pot. Do you continue? Do you raise presenting a huge hand? Eventually they will see you do it enough times that they will call you, or they will have something good enough.
They have in fact outplayed you and if they bet on the turn you have to fold. Either if you are beat or not , it's just not profitable to hero call this bet and the next one on the river unless you are willing to risk it all on a bluff, but then they might have a real hand.
It's hard work and it can get tricky and expensive. Better to just get their money directly with a proper 4x raise that they fold to or re-raise you with.
After a few hours you need to adjust your ranges but by then you should have plenty of chips and can play more hands on the flop.
The above is not advice and I am not a successful poker player. It's more of a blog of the first poker I played online in 3 years and I won't write anymore in your poker thread.

MRLOLAST fucked around with this message at 08:31 on Sep 12, 2021

Mrenda
Mar 14, 2012

MRLOLAST posted:

I'm tournament you spend a lot of time with the same people. Here if they min bet it means that they didn't hit the flop and are looking to get a free card . A bit like in limit, so as long as you got a little sometimes, something a nice re raise is pretty profitable on the flop especially if you are coming from the button. Their river bets are also extremely telling how good of a hand they have . Well if you have a read that it's a fish. Someone experienced will probably pick up that I like to raise rivers when the bettor seems like he is trying to steal the river with a bet after a passive round and exploit the gently caress out of me .

I tend to find, in the microstakes, the hand is over by the river, and pre-flop and flop play is far more important. By the time the river has come you've either made your hand, or you're continuing with the line you've taken in your betting the whole way. Generally, for me, it's the turn where decisions are made. If someone's still in by the river they're either one of the micro-stake lunatics looking to scare off every hand because they've made a low pair and are banking on aggression getting other people out, or they've hit a straight or two pair with 5-7off, a flush with 3-Js, or trips with 55 on the turn despite high betting before, and a lot of scare cards on the flop. Often their is no way of separating these guys from someone who's been playing 10-Js or hell, even A-K or K-K, because at the micro-stakes, often, there's no real pattern or even much logic to the play, you're relying on getting reads on players (tight, only plays when made top or middle pair, even then they'll only play with face cards, or loose, and are using their randomness to sucker people into big betting and their stack will jump from 10bb to 60bb and back in two orbits.) You really have to use position, pre-flop and flop play to isolate out one particular type of player and work on them based on your perception.

I in no way know GTO play, or implied odds, or anything like that, but saying "a nice re raise is pretty profitable on the flop" sounds like you're one of those guys who's going to let the randomness of the cards have an effect, and will have to deal with such swings, other players getting a read on you, or just running good.

And there's no point in saying "Just play tight," not that you did. Because if you're nitty and run bad your stack will be demolished (if you run good you might do well,) the more aggro players will take out the other nitty players from hands, and you'll be dealing with huge variance. There are definitely "types" of players in the micro-stakes, and you absolutely have to adjust based on that. Saying "a nice re-raise on the flop" is in no way taking into account the different styles at that level. And I accept, yes, not every player will play that way, but a lot will, and if you treat most like that you'll make steady money (presuming you don't get bored like me and blow it all in a stupid hand. This absolutely being a tactic to look for in the micro-stakes, the ok player who after an hour or two gets tired and pissy and suddenly turns into a dumbass.)

leper khan
Dec 28, 2010
Honest to god thinks Half Life 2 is a bad game. But at least he likes Monster Hunter.

Mrenda posted:

the ok player who after an hour or two gets tired and pissy and suddenly turns into a dumbass.

It me

Mrenda
Mar 14, 2012

Two hours grinding a cash game with 100BBs, going down to 50BBs within 30 hands, focusing for the next hundred hands and getting it up to 130BBs, twenty hands of nothing later going all in with two pair even though half a second of reflection would tell you the other fella has made his straight thus blowing it all until you do the same again tomorrow.

gently caress, that's why I love poker! Despite, it too, being "it me"

Burning Rain
Jul 17, 2006

What's happening?!?!
Yeah, I'm really happy I've learned to avoid calling with a good hand when the only thing a decent micro reg would be betting/raising there would be a great loving hand. Sometimes I still slip, but I've gotten a lot better with that after I took like 6 months break from poker. It was a major leak of mine (not that I lack those still).

Related, I've just doubled my starting money (20 BI at 5nl) and am getting ready to give 10nl a 5 buyin shot. Let's see if there are as many fish/rec players there as at 5nl.

Mrenda
Mar 14, 2012
Is there any tips for the placement and size of HUDs? I find it's obscuring things on my view. I missed out that someone had called earlier in the hand, thus making a boneheaded move.

I really don't know how much of the information I use, but being able to see chips a player put in front of them would be nice.

Mrenda
Mar 14, 2012
Long term it is absolutely negative EV but drinking beers while playing online poker makes the game far more enjoyable. While I'm being dealt absolute rubbish I don't mind because the beers have chilled me out and I just go with the flow of discord, forums, twitter, etc. in the background. I'm not as invested and far less likely to get pissy that I'm not seeing anything.

MRLOLAST
May 9, 2013
I am back. I found some time to play this Saturday and finished 3rd in a 10 CHF/euro rebuy knockout tournament. Manages to win 150-160 or so with bounties and no rebuy. Should have won but my wife needed attention so I basically sat out the entire final table until we where 3 left and then squandered away what little I had left since I wasn't in to it anymore.
What I said before about the tables being soft still stands. By preflopp raised / reraises are maybe not consistent but I do try and vary what I do a bit. Hardest thing seems to be to get value on the river so once I was the big stack I put a few people all in when I had sets or 2 overs and a flush draw ( maybe 3-4 times throughout the tournament) in the flopp. I ended up knocking out 10 or so people with lots of fishing in the blinds ( won like 40% ) when the shorter stacks went all in from the button or cutoff after I re-raised them all in holding hands like K9o or they went all in preflopp.
My strategy was basically see what my opponents where doing. Folding to the ones I saw where pretty tight/ had some idea of hand selection that raised from Utg or Utg+1 and re-raising the ones I knew where splashy after seeing them play hands like k10o from utg+2. I played around around 28% of the hands until the final table and didn't defend as much as I normally do. I didn't get out of line and I was never all in for my tournament life until the final 3. Not really any surprises, maybe one guy who lost a pretty big pot to when he limped queens and hit a set. All in all happy with my play. No hero calling A high.
I cashed out the 150 and kept 10 on the account for the next time I feel like playing. +100 CHF/euro :)
Best was when I folded 3s in UTG+1 , they play and a 3 comes on the flopp. Lots of betting and 2 players all in. But then it turns out someone else made a set of 7s. So don't be greedy, fold 2,2 /3,3/ 4,4 in the early positions even if you are chip leader.

Yo won a free roll for 18 EUR as well. Flopped quad jacks when I limped them in the heads up , he went all in, ups :)
Lost a KK vs K7s all in preflopp vs 2nd stack. Had 1/2 blind and managed to claw back with b2b AQ, AJ. Winning the tournament was sweet revenge on the guy who almost busted me.

MRLOLAST fucked around with this message at 18:19 on Sep 18, 2021

nrook
Jun 25, 2009

Just let yourself become a worthless person!

Mrenda posted:

Long term it is absolutely negative EV but drinking beers while playing online poker makes the game far more enjoyable. While I'm being dealt absolute rubbish I don't mind because the beers have chilled me out and I just go with the flow of discord, forums, twitter, etc. in the background. I'm not as invested and far less likely to get pissy that I'm not seeing anything.

This is me, but at brick and mortar casinos. It can even be positive EV! (If you count the price of the drinks.)

I need to head down to Atlantic City again. I haven’t been since the before times.

MRLOLAST
May 9, 2013
My 18 euro free roll money did not make it through Saturday night. Holy poo poo your don't suspect midstacks to all in or call all in preflopps holding things like 4,5o even if it's rebuy. I know the odds are in my favour but you need to be a lucky sonofagun to make it through some Saturday night tourneys.
That's it , I am taking my money and leaving, I used to love getting a high from playing intelligent poker but this wasn't it. Daytime poker only when I play next.

leper khan
Dec 28, 2010
Honest to god thinks Half Life 2 is a bad game. But at least he likes Monster Hunter.

MRLOLAST posted:

My 18 euro free roll money did not make it through Saturday night. Holy poo poo your don't suspect midstacks to all in or call all in preflopps holding things like 4,5o even if it's rebuy. I know the odds are in my favour but you need to be a lucky sonofagun to make it through some Saturday night tourneys.
That's it , I am taking my money and leaving, I used to love getting a high from playing intelligent poker but this wasn't it. Daytime poker only when I play next.

Need to not expose yourself so much. If you have 10 coinflips in a tourney you're likely to lose even if you're pretty far ahead on all of them. AA is ahead of 27o by miles, but 27 still has like 12%.

MY INEVITABLE DEBT
Apr 21, 2011
I am lonely and spend most of my time on 4Chan talking about the superiority of BBC porn.

leper khan posted:

Need to not expose yourself so much. If you have 10 coinflips in a tourney you're likely to lose even if you're pretty far ahead on all of them. AA is ahead of 27o by miles, but 27 still has like 12%.

a coinflip is roughly 50/50. like flipping a coin. cant really call it a coinflip every time you get it in

PIZZA.BAT
Nov 12, 2016


:cheers:


Yeah if my 'coinflips' are 88/12 odds I'm taking that bet every time. No questions asked.

leper khan
Dec 28, 2010
Honest to god thinks Half Life 2 is a bad game. But at least he likes Monster Hunter.

PIZZA.BAT posted:

Yeah if my 'coinflips' are 88/12 odds I'm taking that bet every time. No questions asked.

How many of those do you want to go all in for through a tourney?

How many until you're >50% to bust?

mfcrocker
Jan 31, 2004



Hot Rope Guy

leper khan posted:

How many of those do you want to go all in for through a tourney?

How many until you're >50% to bust?

Every single one? If I can always get in as an 88/12 favourite I'll be an exceptionally rich person

You appear to be confusing a setup where you're always at risk for your whole stack with how tournament poker actually works. In a hypothetical scenario where I'm all in with an 88/12 each time:

After the first hand, 88% of the time I've doubled and 12% of the time I'm out.

After the second hand, 77% of the time I have 3x starting (.88*.88), 11% of the time I'm back to starting (.88*.12) and 12% of the time I'm out from the first hand. No-one at the table can have a stack that covers me, and that's the point.

You can't treat this like a strict discrete probability because winning all-ins wins us chips which affects the probability of future bustouts. It's always correct to get it in as a favourite unless there's an exceptionally good (eg: satellite bubble vs a covering stack) reason not to

mfcrocker fucked around with this message at 02:24 on Sep 20, 2021

leper khan
Dec 28, 2010
Honest to god thinks Half Life 2 is a bad game. But at least he likes Monster Hunter.

mfcrocker posted:

Every single one? If I can always get in as an 88/12 favourite I'll be an exceptionally rich person

You absolutely do not want to bet your tournament as often as you have odds to do so.

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

Right, the actual thing is that in tournaments, you don't really want to get your whole stack in 12 times a tournament, even from way ahead. You'll have to play a lot of tournaments for that to work out for you.

But if you're getting your whole stack in early and you're ahead, you should wind up with a larger stack, so that you can call someone else's shove without being knocked out if they suck out. Even then, if you're putting half or three quarters of your stack repeatedly, you'll be eliminated a lot.

Baddog
May 12, 2001
That's why live tournament players have consortiums. It's definitely not good strategy to be playing so scared that you don't want to get it in even as a big favorite. Or playing just trying to mincash.

Play something that you can have enough volume at to overcome variance if you can't accept that tournaments are very often putting in a ton of time for little to no reward.

mfcrocker
Jan 31, 2004



Hot Rope Guy
I put in a chunky edit to my post, but the idea that you wouldn't get it in as a massive favourite is ludicrous. The Kelly Criterion suggests that the optimum bet sizing for an 88% chance to double up is 76% of your bankroll.

It's NLHE rather than some random bet, so the chances are if you're getting in for 76% of your stack you're going to be getting in for all of it and it'll be exceptionally profitable to do so. As mentioned, the only time you shouldn't is when there are other considerations, like satty bubbles

PIZZA.BAT
Nov 12, 2016


:cheers:


leper khan posted:

How many of those do you want to go all in for through a tourney?

How many until you're >50% to bust?

well assuming we're starting with the same stack that means right off the rip i'm doubling up with roughly 9:1 odds. each time after that i'm sacrificing a smaller and smaller percentage of my stack to make the same call. it starts at 100%, then 50%, then 33%, etc etc. why wouldn't you do it? think of the counter-argument as well. is there a situation where you tell yourself, 'you know what yeah i have these pocket aces and i know the other idiot is shoving on 72o. but you know what? i'm gonna lay it down this time'

that's how tournaments are. you hit the money and people start swinging sledgehammers. either accept that there's going to be a shitload of variance and luck in the final tables or accept that tournaments aren't for you

leper khan
Dec 28, 2010
Honest to god thinks Half Life 2 is a bad game. But at least he likes Monster Hunter.

PIZZA.BAT posted:

well assuming we're starting with the same stack that means right off the rip i'm doubling up with roughly 9:1 odds. each time after that i'm sacrificing a smaller and smaller percentage of my stack to make the same call. it starts at 100%, then 50%, then 33%, etc etc. why wouldn't you do it? think of the counter-argument as well. is there a situation where you tell yourself, 'you know what yeah i have these pocket aces and i know the other idiot is shoving on 72o. but you know what? i'm gonna lay it down this time'

that's how tournaments are. you hit the money and people start swinging sledgehammers. either accept that there's going to be a shitload of variance and luck in the final tables or accept that tournaments aren't for you

You aren't sacrificing a smaller percentage of your chips when the question is how many times do you want to risk everything. The question is how many times you want to be at risk in a tournament. Not how to play when you have the field covered twice over.

PIZZA.BAT
Nov 12, 2016


:cheers:


They were talking about getting into it against players who were shoving with 54o. When your table is playing like that it's extremely easy to exploit. Either accept that you're going to take a bad beat every now and then or accept that you can get scared off hands by idiots who are clearly mashing buttons

Eric the Mauve
May 8, 2012

Making you happy for a buck since 199X
If you're so unable to deal with coolers that you don't want to get your money in as a 4-to-1 favorite or better all day every day every time, I honestly have no idea why you would play any form of poker. How could you possibly enjoy it?

I was like that when I first started, like taking a super bad beat would tilt the hell out of me for a full day or two afterward and I'd have to just stop playing for a while, but I eventually got to a place where I could shrug off getting three-outed on the river and be satisfied that I read the situation correctly and got my money in good. Which is all you can control in poker.

Once in a while you pick up two kings and someone else picks up two aces and the result of the hand is preordained and there's nothing you can do about it. That's poker; that's life.

leper khan
Dec 28, 2010
Honest to god thinks Half Life 2 is a bad game. But at least he likes Monster Hunter.

Eric the Mauve posted:

If you're so unable to deal with coolers that you don't want to get your money in as a 4-to-1 favorite or better all day every day every time, I honestly have no idea why you would play any form of poker. How could you possibly enjoy it?

I was like that when I first started, like taking a super bad beat would tilt the hell out of me for a full day or two afterward and I'd have to just stop playing for a while, but I eventually got to a place where I could shrug off getting three-outed on the river and be satisfied that I read the situation correctly and got my money in good. Which is all you can control in poker.

Once in a while you pick up two kings and someone else picks up two aces and the result of the hand is preordained and there's nothing you can do about it. That's poker; that's life.

All I know is I started doing way better when I stopped thinking about tournament hands like cash hands and actually started giving a poo poo about my exposure.

Stefan Prodan
Jan 7, 2002

I deeply respect you as a human being... Some day I'm gonna make you *Mrs* Buck Turgidson!


Grimey Drawer

mfcrocker posted:

I put in a chunky edit to my post, but the idea that you wouldn't get it in as a massive favourite is ludicrous. The Kelly Criterion suggests that the optimum bet sizing for an 88% chance to double up is 76% of your bankroll.

It's NLHE rather than some random bet, so the chances are if you're getting in for 76% of your stack you're going to be getting in for all of it and it'll be exceptionally profitable to do so. As mentioned, the only time you shouldn't is when there are other considerations, like satty bubbles

Eric the Mauve posted:

If you're so unable to deal with coolers that you don't want to get your money in as a 4-to-1 favorite or better all day every day every time, I honestly have no idea why you would play any form of poker. How could you possibly enjoy it?

I was like that when I first started, like taking a super bad beat would tilt the hell out of me for a full day or two afterward and I'd have to just stop playing for a while, but I eventually got to a place where I could shrug off getting three-outed on the river and be satisfied that I read the situation correctly and got my money in good. Which is all you can control in poker.

Once in a while you pick up two kings and someone else picks up two aces and the result of the hand is preordained and there's nothing you can do about it. That's poker; that's life.


These guys have the right idea

The idea of "don't get your money in as a narrow favorite because you give up an opportunity cost to get it in better later with lower variance" is correct but the idea that you wouldn't willingly take a bunch of 88-to-12s in a row is, as someone said, ludicrous. Even a giant nitbag like Phil Hellmuth would probably take that all day. If 6 people shove on the first hand of the WSOP and he has aces he's calling, even if he thinks he can massively outplay them later.

Keep in mind also there's no such thing as no exposure and no variance. Like, yes you can get more attempts at gaining a stack by betting less than allin against opponents who will call to river too often but like they are gonna have hands sometimes too and this still involves variance.

But like yeah if you are going "hmm if I shove here with 55 against this field I might get it in as a 52% favorite on average" and you decide not to that's completely correct, but if 6 people shove on you in a clown fest and you fold AA you are doing it way wrong

As someone said there are extreme examples involving satellites or like big bubble situations (I think I actually even hosed one up one time where I called QQ preflop bb v btn allin at the WSOP and won and then went ah poo poo I think that was wrong immediately after. but luckily I won so therefore it was completely correct obviously) but they are definitely not the norm way away from the bubble

Stefan Prodan fucked around with this message at 18:42 on Sep 20, 2021

PIZZA.BAT
Nov 12, 2016


:cheers:


I don't know if this is the thread for it but we're talking online play and tournaments so... Negreanu has been streaming his WSOP tournament play lately while also explaining his thinking as he's doing it. I've been able to learn quite a bit from watching him play and now it looks like he's uploading clips which highlight certain points. It's pretty good

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPByaVUKI90

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JppFnxSF2Bg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7Pdlj0NIAo

Tetramin
Apr 1, 2006

I'ma buck you up.

PIZZA.BAT posted:

I don't know if this is the thread for it but we're talking online play and tournaments so... Negreanu has been streaming his WSOP tournament play lately while also explaining his thinking as he's doing it. I've been able to learn quite a bit from watching him play and now it looks like he's uploading clips which highlight certain points. It's pretty good

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPByaVUKI90

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JppFnxSF2Bg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7Pdlj0NIAo

Thanks for linking, Some solid poker content.

Sataere
Jul 20, 2005


Step 1: Start fight
Step 2: Attack straw man
Step 3: REPEAT

Do not engage with me



PIZZA.BAT posted:

I don't know if this is the thread for it but we're talking online play and tournaments so... Negreanu has been streaming his WSOP tournament play lately while also explaining his thinking as he's doing it. I've been able to learn quite a bit from watching him play and now it looks like he's uploading clips which highlight certain points. It's pretty good

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPByaVUKI90

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JppFnxSF2Bg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7Pdlj0NIAo

This is really good

Tetramin
Apr 1, 2006

I'ma buck you up.
https://twitter.com/heinetworktv/status/1440722562573557766?s=21

Woop

Burning Rain
Jul 17, 2006

What's happening?!?!
So I've played a bit under 10k hands in 10NL and it's going almost suspiciously well - as in, I've doubled my bankroll from 20 to 40 buyins. I am about 40 bucks over my all-in EV line and won another 40 bucks in one of those weird rakeback things GGpoker does, but it's still my hottest streak ever. And apart from the first 1-2 thousand hands when I tried to be too clever for my own good, I feel I am actually playing a decent game. It helps that there is a surpising amount of fish and rec players around still.

There's still plenty to work on, but at least I have some cushion for the inevitable downswing. And I'm not planning on moving up until I have played like 50k hands at this level and see what my actual winrate is. I'm travelling so I won't be able to play for the next week or so and annoyingly I didn't download the hand histories to analyse them either, but it's good to have a break anyway - I think I took a bit too seriously earlier in the year and burnt out at one point.

Mind_Taker
May 7, 2007



Anyone have any experience and advice with double board bomb pots?

I had the following NLHE double board bomb pot hand and I wasn't sure how I should have played it. I'm like $1000 to $2000 effective with most players.

Hero, SB ($2500): 7:s:3:c:
Villain, BB ($1200): pretty weak stationy player who doesn't understand relative hand strengths from the little I have seen of him

Preflop pot: $225

Flop 1: 6:c:5:d:4:s:
Flop 2: A:c:K:h:K:d:

I'm first to act. My action?

At first I thought I should just bet a normal amount, like $150 to $200 and not fold to any raises. But I'm drawing dead on the second flop to anyone who has a king (and basically drawing dead to any ace), while on the other hand it'd be a disaster to get it in against a set on the first board or 87. So I ended up deciding to check with the plan of check-raising all in, hoping to either go multiway all-in or to get a bunch of dead money with either a heads-up all in or just taking it down preflop.

Would a small bet work better on the flop than checking? Say a bet of $50-75, hoping to get calls from more players or potentially getting raised allowing me to 3-bet all in? Otherwise blasting it on clean turn cards on Board 1?

Either way, the BB ends up betting $150 and it folds around to me and I go all-in for about $1200 effective, hoping to get him to fold a bunch of hands like a weak Kx, maybe like A4-A8 (aces with a straight draw on the first board). Since I have basically the nuts on board 1 but no showdown value on board 2 I'd love to end the hand here.

I haven't studied strategy and I'd appreciate any advice on this hand, but more general advice as well. This game is really juicy and I feel like these bomb pots present an opportunity to have a huge edge over other players since they are a relatively new thing, at least in the room I play in.

Mind_Taker fucked around with this message at 21:17 on Sep 24, 2021

MRLOLAST
May 9, 2013
I am back in Belgium and can now play poker on PokerStars. Put in 30euro and have so far played 9 tournaments. 1: 17th place for 40 usd and one 3rd place for 70usd and a +-0 knockout tournament where I didn't make the money but finished even on knockouts.
So all in all my scarkscope is showing a very healthy 211% profit. The swisssite was way softer but the games are a bit more interesting and the potential winnings are a lot higher here. But man does big tournaments take a lot of time. The one I finished 3rd with 350 players in I started around 22 o'clock and finished 5am and I had stuff to do at 0900 so I basically punted my last hand. No real interesting hands except midgame when I was a big stack and had 77 , raise and SB calls. Flopp comes 7,10,2. SB leads out for half pot and I call. Turn is a dud. SB goes all in and I call, SB has a set of deuces. I fist pump that it wasn't pocket 10s and that he has 1 out. Still a bit surprised since set over set doesn't happen that often but river is another 2..ups. But poo poo happens and I probably sucked out on a few players to hit the final table later. I like the new feature where you can throw things at other players.. used that and then got on with my game.
My worst enemy was fatigue and at the final table I was hyper aggressive because I was chip leader and wanted to go to bed. Lots of people where playing ICM so I just grew and grew. Things evened out later on and I couldn't keep the aggression up, not hitting flops or opponents hitting it to well. Anyway, lessons learned, make sure you are rested and have 8th hours available otherwise you might as well piss away the money. And in my personal case, never multi table.

MRLOLAST fucked around with this message at 12:54 on Oct 5, 2021

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MRLOLAST
May 9, 2013
Question: How popular is it to use a HUD at lower levels? Should I be changing my account every few months to avoid giving away information about my fold to 3-bet stat and bet sizing even if I don't play that frequently or at higher levels?
I don't care about Rakeback since I never play cash games (I suck at them) and the gift boxes system at PokerStars have never given me anything.

MRLOLAST fucked around with this message at 12:56 on Oct 5, 2021

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