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Pththya-lyi posted:How the hell did he live that long? He's a powerful sorceror of an unaligned tradition of Jewish kabbalists. The same Life Mastery that allows him to turn vampires back into mortals makes immortality a fairly simple thing for him. MalcolmSheppard posted:He was a wizard. Yup. Introduced as that in A World of Darkness (1st edition) from 1993 (or 1992?). MalcolmSheppard posted:I think Petra was one of the last gasps of early V:tM's attempts ot have site-based adventures. Very much the case, yes, although it was used for VtM, MtA, and WTA in the early days, and referenced later on IIRC. MalcolmSheppard posted:Loomer, you have (White Wolf's) Encyclopaedia Vampirica, don't you? Because I know you're interested in tracking all this stuff and that book was specifically designed to list as many vampires from the game up to that point as possible. I do, yes, but frankly the book is inaccurate in more than one case, and very very incomplete. It was actually my dissatisfaction with it that got me started on this to begin with, and the new and more methodical approach is just the latest incarnation of the original project.
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Sep 7, 2012 07:02
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I had no idea Rambam was in the old AWoD. Yeesh. I just remember him from the Weinbergmage books, which I had to read for M:tAsc purposes. It was one of the things the writing team opted to never speak of. There was something of a backlash against development up to the Greenberg era of V:tM, I think, which I entered on the tail end of. Like, there was a whole big metaplot reason for Rasputin being identified with many different clans, described at http://timeofjudgement.livejournal.com/1817.html . . . so a lot of that stuff was ignored or retconned. Now, I think the focus is really to try and legitimize classic content from any era.
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Sep 7, 2012 07:24
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The thing for me is I didn't mind some of Weinberg's ideas - his work in the Masque trilogy was flawed, but an interesting core premise with some of the big players in the Jyhad being those free of ties to any antediluvian. Plus with my project, how can I not feel an affection for Phantomas, slaving away at his encylopedia of the Kindred under Paris? All in all though I can understand both the distaste for Weinberg and for some of the other early stuff. Early WoD was frankly cartoonish a lot of the time, and even more so for it's attempts to be dark and serious. Weinberg certainly didn't help things with his sex-pot characters and the absurd 'dagger of the giovanni' (who, due to a cross-wiring of nerds in my brain, I can only picture being cast with Summer Glau by Joss Whedon. It strikes the same chord.)
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Sep 7, 2012 07:43
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The metal guy in the new book is great because nearly everybody who meets him thinks he's a huge jackass.
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Sep 7, 2012 09:26
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Hmm, need to find a good base map to do the territorial map off once the documenting is all finished.
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Sep 7, 2012 09:36
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MalcolmSheppard posted:I believe V:tM had some random encounter tables way back when.
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Sep 7, 2012 14:32
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I think they were brought up last thread. They're mini story hooks more than anything, so no hilarious '2d4 Sabbat come rampaging down the street!' stuff.
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Sep 7, 2012 16:08
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99-100: A little BvD.
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Sep 7, 2012 18:02
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Y'know, at least Rambam was a cool dude, I'm down with him being a wizard. Good work, Rambam. On the other hand: Rasputin was not only several clans of vampire, he was also a wraith. Specializing in possession.
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Sep 7, 2012 18:13
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Does anyone know if the Red List V20 update is a where are they now of the old red listers, or a different most wanted, or a mix or neither/
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Sep 7, 2012 18:33
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Someone upthread asked about Fighting Styles in the new newness. Dave Hill got permission to put the re-do of Fighting Merits for God-Machine Chronicles up for open review: http://forums.white-wolf.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1477046#post1477046
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Sep 7, 2012 19:20
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I had a couple of questions about WoD. 1) How easy is Hunter: The Vigil to run? And by that, I mean "How powerful are the player's abilities". Are they typical humans who are able to fight monsters, or are they more-than-human? Or to put it another way: "If I had a 15ft high chainlink fence topped with barbed wire, would they have to find a way around it, or are they able to just jump over it"? I'm interested in running a Hunter campaign, but want to know roughly where Hunters are on the grand scheme of things. 2) Would people recommend Mage: The Ascension or Mage: The Awakening for a stand-alone Mage game (by stand-alone, I mean "Nothing from other WoD lines")? I've heard good and bad things about both versions, and wanted to know the pros and cons of each.
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Sep 7, 2012 19:28
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1. Your average Hunter is just a man or woman with an inordinate amount of bravery. They get a bit of an edge, but not much of one. Tier three hunters get special tools or abilities which jump them above normal humans but still not really on the level of most monsters. 2. I would say Awakening because Ascension means dealing with oWoD rules. In both cases, though, they can work pretty well as standalone.
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Sep 7, 2012 19:31
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Randalor posted:I had a couple of questions about WoD. 1) Very. Depends on Tier, but they'd probably have to go around it. 2) I am the most biased person imaginable. Do not take my word for this. Awakening. By a country mile. If you asked this time next year, and Werewolf20 sells well enough to justify a Ascension 20th Anniversary edition, then it might be more even, but Awakening has the advantage of a functioning system. A barely functioning system in places, held together by duct tape and good will, but better than Ascension's. Plus, the bad guys are in the corebook.
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Sep 7, 2012 19:33
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Randalor posted:I had a couple of questions about WoD. hunters would effortlessly pass through that fence. This is because hunters have wirecutters. I think almost everyone this thread is gonna say the nWoD stuff is superior mechanically to the oWoD stuff, and probably a majority would agree about the fluff as well. oMage in particular is stupid as hell in its premise, the whole consensus reality thing is the dumbest poo poo ever, and the war between technocrats and hermitic mages and whoever else doesn't make sense because it's entirely superficial anyway. As an aside, don't mix lines, generally speaking. They aren't designed to play nice with one another.
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Sep 7, 2012 19:50
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Liesmith posted:hunters would effortlessly pass through that fence. This is because hunters have wirecutters. I'm pretty much all-in for nWoD mechanically, but I admit that as dumb as it is, oMage's fluff is fun sometimes, and in that case I'd run new system with old fluff if that's more appealing.
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Sep 7, 2012 19:57
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Liesmith posted:hunters would effortlessly pass through that fence. This is because hunters have wirecutters. Hey now, wirecutters take some effort to use. But its good to know that I can use actual real-world defences and let the players work out how to get to where they need to go. So I'll see if I can track down a copy of Awakening then. I have a copy of Ascension I picked up for cheap awhile back. It's an interesting read, if nothing else. And for the "Mixing lines" bit, I was planning on using the other WoD books for Hunter just for a framework to make monsters and NPCs for the players to interact with/fight/ect. Mage on the other hand, I hear tends to be on a completly different power level than the rest.
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Sep 7, 2012 19:58
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Dave Brookshaw posted:Someone upthread asked about Fighting Styles in the new newness. Dave Hill got permission to put the re-do of Fighting Merits for God-Machine Chronicles up for open review: quote:3) I wanted to get rid of multiple actions quote:Shoot First (•): In a firefight, the person shot first is usually the loser. Your character has trained herself to fire first in an altercation. If her gun is in hand, and she’s firing, add her Firearms score to her Initiative. If she has Quick Draw, she can use Shoot First in the first turn of a firefight. This maneuver only benefits her once per scene. quote:Feint (•••): With a flourish to one direction, your character can distract an opponent for a cleaner, more effective follow-up strike. Make an attack roll as normal, but the attack causes no damage. The next attack your character makes against the same opponent adds these successes as an additional damage bonus if successful. I think Martial Arts should have some way (probably the first dot effect) to give an equipment bonus to your fists, probably equal to your dots in the merit. Other than that, I think they look pretty decent.
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Sep 7, 2012 20:03
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Dave Brookshaw posted:Someone upthread asked about Fighting Styles in the new newness. Dave Hill got permission to put the re-do of Fighting Merits for God-Machine Chronicles up for open review: They certainly seem a bit less ridiculous than existing Fighting Style powers, at least, though I'm skeptical about fighting styles that let you deal aggravated damage. I thought aggravated was supposed to be the domain of 1) supernatural abilities and 2) having been stomped nearly to death. (Plus, there's still the other point about fighting styles breaking combat abstraction, but I'll leave that topic up to someone else.)
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Sep 7, 2012 20:19
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If I was gonna do feint, I would let everyone else who attacks this guy until your turn next round (including you, next round) add your feint successes to their attack dice. so you don't actually gain anything personally, but you can just about break even and you can make the noncombat guys in the party actually do some damage for once
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Sep 7, 2012 20:23
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Urgh, those things are just so pointless. Like, if we have to have fighting styles I'd rather have them be largely ineffectual rather than the single greatest source of killing power that can or will exist, but what the gently caress, can we please let Power Attack and Combat Expertise go already?
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Sep 7, 2012 20:54
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I think having any merit be largely ineffectual is loving stupid because if it's ineffectual, why even make it? I thought we wanted to get away from trap options, which is exactly what an ineffectual merit is. Yawgmoth fucked around with this message at 21:01 on Sep 7, 2012 |
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Sep 7, 2012 20:58
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They are kinda pointless, but if the greater World of Darkness community really likes Fighting Styles, then it's a good idea to include them. They're definitely better than the existing Fighting Styles in terms of not breaking the game quite so badly; I had a quick skim and spotted a few things that could do with revision, and I'll write up my thoughts when I have more time. A general thought, one that's always bothered me: why call them "fighting styles" at all? They're clearly just individual manoeuvres that can be learned by anyone with a vaguely synergistic approach to fighting, and getting away from the idea that Fighting Style Merits somehow provide the mechanical backing for Skill Specialities is a good idea. I know, this isn't exactly a big problem compared to the others.
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Sep 7, 2012 21:26
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They're actually much better on that ground. The entire thing's headed "Fighting Merits" rather than "Fighting Styles", and the "Styles" they do provide are incredibly general - "Martial Arts", not "Kung Fu".
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Sep 7, 2012 21:30
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Liesmith posted:...oMage in particular is stupid as hell in its premise, the whole consensus reality thing is the dumbest poo poo ever, and the war between technocrats and hermitic mages and whoever else doesn't make sense because it's entirely superficial anyway. You know when you're preparing to run a game, you've got an idea already about the setting and the kinds of things you want the players to do, then the game starts and while interacting with the players your ideas about the setting and the games direction change? That's a pretty good analogy to consensus reality; inter-contextualizing your stories, taking their ideas and remixing them into your frame of reference (while your players do the same)in an evolutionary way (with Awakening / Ascension being revolutionary in the way you view the world). That said, game mechanics gripes about Ascension are totally justified.
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Sep 8, 2012 03:26
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Maybe it's just that I got into Awakening first, but I personally find there's really no comparison. Awakening's fiction just blows me away - yeah, even the Atlantis stuff. The Pentacle is a well-rounded faction of allies who all want disparate things without being at each other's throats (theoretically, anyway), and the Seers, at least with the Seers of the Throne book, really just blow the Technocracy completely out of the water thematically.
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Sep 8, 2012 03:43
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quote:And for the "Mixing lines" bit, I was planning on using the other WoD books for Hunter just for a framework to make monsters and NPCs for the players to interact with/fight/ect. Mage on the other hand, I hear tends to be on a completly different power level than the rest. Good news! You don't have to do this! The Hunter core contains alternate antagonist creation rules and guidelines for every major supernatural line. You can create monsters that feel like the nWoD lines and can give your Hunter players a challenge without curb stomping them, and you won't have to dick around with a lot of stats and character options that are unnecessary for an NPC. There's even an alternate version of Mage that won't travel time and castrate your players grandfathers the instant they so much as think of loving with him. The hunter core is pretty sweet.
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Sep 8, 2012 03:48
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Baby Babbeh posted:Good news! You don't have to do this! The Hunter core contains alternate antagonist creation rules and guidelines for every major supernatural line. You can create monsters that feel like the nWoD lines and can give your Hunter players a challenge without curb stomping them, and you won't have to dick around with a lot of stats and character options that are unnecessary for an NPC. There's even an alternate version of Mage that won't travel time and castrate your players grandfathers the instant they so much as think of loving with him. The hunter core is pretty sweet. It is, and the supplements expand on it amazingly. Seriously. Hunter is awesome.
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Sep 8, 2012 03:50
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Liesmith posted:oMage in particular is stupid as hell in its premise, the whole consensus reality thing is the dumbest poo poo ever, and the war between technocrats and hermitic mages and whoever else doesn't make sense because it's entirely superficial anyway.
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Sep 8, 2012 04:01
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Say what you will, but I will never find the image of fighting a Void Engineer using a giant pterodactyl spaceship not-fun.
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Sep 8, 2012 04:11
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Loomer posted:Say what you will, but I will never find the image of fighting a
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Sep 8, 2012 04:36
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So all this Fighting Style stuff is a bit much for me, even with the fixes. Is there any reason I can't just say "No Fighting Styles"? I mean, in terms of breaking the game, not authority to do so.
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Sep 8, 2012 04:51
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Consensus reality makes perfect sense within the setting and is also the basis of one of the best RPGs of the last few years, The Esoterrorists. It's also a thing real (stupid) people actually believe, especially within the circles that a number of early Mage writers move in.
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Sep 8, 2012 04:52
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Project1 posted:So all this Fighting Style stuff is a bit much for me, even with the fixes. Is there any reason I can't just say "No Fighting Styles"? I mean, in terms of breaking the game, not authority to do so. In fact, the author has specified that they've included a "Go ahead and say 'no fighting styles'" disclaimer at the beginning of the revised fighting styles rules in whatever book they're appearing in.
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Sep 8, 2012 04:55
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Ferrinus posted:In fact, the author has specified that they've included a "Go ahead and say 'no fighting styles'" disclaimer at the beginning of the revised fighting styles rules in whatever book they're appearing in. Great, I'm very glad to hear that. Thanks.
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Sep 8, 2012 04:57
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Project1 posted:So all this Fighting Style stuff is a bit much for me, even with the fixes. Is there any reason I can't just say "No Fighting Styles"? I mean, in terms of breaking the game, not authority to do so. Banning fighting styles breaks nothing and in fact makes combat run smoother in some cases because you don't even have to consider the possibility of multiple actions in a combat round.
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Sep 8, 2012 05:31
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I posted something like this on the WW forums but in my mind here are things that "Fighting" merits should let you do: 0. My version of Fighting Style, where your chosen weapon (or circumstance) is just as good as a "best" weapon or circumstance 1. Something that lets you safely KO people you incapacitate even if you were dealing lethal damage 2. Something that makes it harder for people to escape you and turn a combat scene into a chase scene 3. The converse of 2, something that makes you hard to keep in a fight 4. Something that makes anyone who took at least X damage from you in a fight take longer than usual to (mundanely) heal that damage 5. Something that makes combat rounds you're involved in take less time (as in, fewer seconds per round)(this might be impossible to implement in a logical way) or make less noise, so you have more leeway in terms of quickly taking someone out without others noticing 6. Suffer less resource drain from fights - heal faster (there's already a Quick Healer merit, of course), regain a spent wp from any fight you "won", etcetera 7. Other cool stuff, ionno
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Sep 8, 2012 05:40
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Ferrinus posted:I posted something like this on the WW forums but in my mind here are things that "Fighting" merits should let you do: 8. Fight, but better.
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Sep 8, 2012 05:45
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Were there ever any successful attempts at converting V:tM? Don't get me wrong, I've played and really enjoyed a couple of games of V:tR, but I never got to play V:tM back in the day, and I just don't have time to learn that mess of rules anymore. I saw a few attempts over the years, but the general consensus seemed to be that it was too hard. I like the setting of V:tR, but I've read all the V:tM stuff, and I really like that too.
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Sep 8, 2012 06:00
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Project1 posted:Were there ever any successful attempts at converting V:tM?
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Sep 8, 2012 06:05
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