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Warcabbit
Apr 26, 2008



Wedge Regret

What's the chance this gets swept under the rug entirely?

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gwaaargh
Jul 7, 2010

by XyloJW


Well, the bitter cynic in me says that because this happened to MPs and the police - a class of people who apparently deserve and necessitate constant and intrusive surveillance, like moaning 'slebs - people will ignore it.

Brown Moses
Feb 22, 2002


Warcabbit posted:

What's the chance this gets swept under the rug entirely?

They might try, but there's people who will be doing everything they can to avoid that from happening.

Brown Moses
Feb 22, 2002


Tom Watson has written a nice letter

quote:

Letter to Rupert Murdoch regarding burglary
Mr Rupert Murdoch
Chairman and CEO
News Corporation
1211 Avenue of Americas
New York
NY 10036

18 September 2012

Dear Mr Murdoch,

As you know, I have been uncovering criminality at News International for several years. During which time, the company’s management has regularly asked me to provide evidence of its habitual criminality. I have resisted such requests, as I did not believe they were sincere. It was my belief that senior people at the company knew perfectly well about journalists being involved in phone hacking, computer hacking, bribery and blackmail. And that the company had no wish to deal with these problems – did not even see them as such – rather to know what evidence existed in order to destroy it, to muddy the trail, in short, to cover up. For these reasons, I have resisted passing on evidence to you, and have passed it solely to the law enforcement authorities instead.

Nevertheless, I am writing to you today because I believe it may be possible that that era may be drawing to a close. I believe it possible that you and the current executives at the company may have realised that it is now too late to cover up what has gone on at News International. Whether or not you, and your executives, knew about the widespread use within News International of the latest investigative technique to be revealed – burglary – I believe you may now realise that the flat denial and attempt to destroy evidence of previous days will no longer wash with anybody.

I have seen a document from the hard drive of private investigator Sid Fillery, a regular contractor at News International through his company, Southern Investigations. The document, entitled “Alex1.doc” refers to a request for a sortie into the home of a woman living in Ascot. The hard drive was seized by the police in 2002 and is still in their possession. I understand that it was reviewed by the police in 2010 and that an internal document at the Metropolitan Police states quite clearly that they believe the file shows a conspiracy to break and enter into private property. Further details are on the front page of The Independent today.

You might not also be aware that a number of high profile figures who were the victims of phone hacking also reported mysterious break-ins at their homes. The pattern is the same: the homes clinically entered but no valuables taken. My colleague, Chris Bryant was so concerned that his home had been covertly entered that he reported the matter to the police. I understand the Metropolitan Police dispatched Commander Yates to take the statement. I understand the file containing the statement has gone missing.

I have audio testimony from the undercover former police officer with intimate knowledge of Southern investigations who claims that the burglary of the homes of MPs was a regular occurrence.

I am also aware, through the lawyer of a hacking victim, that there is testimony from another former private investigator that he was regularly hired to break into the homes of individuals who were the subject of investigation by News International. At the present time the investigator is not prepared to speak out in public.

This evidence has come to light after the Leveson Inquiry has stopped taking evidence. I think it important that you make a public statement to clarify how you intend to deal with these startling new revelations and how you will assist the police with their investigation.

Shortly, I will also be writing to you confidentially about information I have received from a former employee of the company regarding the conduct of former News of the World journalist and now Sunday Times investigator, Mazher Mahmood.

If there is any integrity at all to your claims to want to clean up the corruption and criminality endemic in your company, perhaps you would act on the evidence I am adducing. Public re-assurance that this matter is being dealt with would be welcome.

I would be grateful for a swift reply to this letter.

Yours sincerely

Tom Watson
Member of Parliament for West Bromwich East

And the reply I'll imagine he'll receive

quote:

Dear Tom,
gently caress you,
Love Rupes

Zombywuf
Mar 29, 2008



I really want Guy Ritchie to make a film about the Met now. I think it's the only way the public conscious will become aware of how our country actually works.

Brown Moses
Feb 22, 2002


If you aren't following me on Twitter you've missed out on some hackgate fun today.

Brown Moses
Feb 22, 2002


quote:

Private detective’s axe murder: family ask Theresa May for inquiry

Home Secretary Theresa May was today under growing pressure to order a judicial inquiry into one of London’s most notorious unsolved murders.

Mrs May has delayed for 13 months a decision over whether to order a judge-led probe into the death of Daniel Morgan, a private detective who was found in a south London car park with an axe embedded in his skull in 1987.

In an unprecedented step, the victim’s family and one of the prime suspects today united in their calls for Mrs May to order an independent inquiry.

Daniel’s brother Alastair said: “Scotland Yard’s handling of the case has disturbed my family deeply from the outset.

“I don’t know of any case worse than Daniel’s, especially from the point of view of suspected criminality within the police. Theresa May’s handling of our submission has also caused us further distress.”

Mr Morgan was backed by Jonathan Rees, Mr Morgan’s former business partner at Southern Investigations, who was acquitted of any role in the murder in March last year and believes a judicial inquiry would help clear his name.

He said: “Certainly it would hold senior officers to account and expose the weaknesses and incompetence of the initial police investigation, rather than the continued suggestion that I and other police officers were involved in the murder.”

The calls follow yesterday’s Evening Standard disclosure that the Met had an undercover “mole” inside Southern Investigations for nine years, who told his handlers of alleged widespread criminality and claims he was astonished when police failed to act.

Scotland Yard admits the Morgan murder has been plagued by police corruption for 25 years and five major criminal investigations — at a cost of £30 million — have failed to achieve any successful prosecutions.

Following the collapse of the Old Bailey trial, a solicitor for the Morgan family wrote to the Home Secretary in August last year to say they had been “failed repeatedly by the criminal justice system” and warned her of “the repeated failure of the [Met] over the years to address the role played by police corruption in protecting those responsible for the murder from being brought to justice”.

Raju Bhatt, who was also a member of the Independent Hillsborough Panel which exposed serious police corruption, argued the only way for his clients to gain any form of justice was through an independent inquiry.

In a further letter to the Home Secretary posted yesterday, Mr Bhatt wrote: “[My clients] have sought to engage with you in a constructive and open manner, so your failure to respond in any meaningful way has served only to compound their distress.”

A Home Office spokesman said: “It is deeply regrettable that Daniel Morgan’s killers have not been brought to justice and we understand the strength of feeling this case has caused. We are carefully considering next steps.”

If anyone deserves attention in all of this it's the family of Daniel Morgan, who have clearly been hosed over by the police, press, and government for 25 years.

Knockknees
Dec 21, 2004

sprung out fully formed


I think a new thread and new major developments call for some kind of updated infographic showing all the major connections here. Then again, it's so dense it's more of a fog than a web.

Brown Moses
Feb 22, 2002


Knockknees posted:

I think a new thread and new major developments call for some kind of updated infographic showing all the major connections here. Then again, it's so dense it's more of a fog than a web.

At this point it would probably resemble a mind-bending fractal, but I'd love to do that sometime.

Warcabbit
Apr 26, 2008



Wedge Regret

I remain completely effing amazed how Fox News really doesn't appear to have done any of this stuff. Thank you for your integrity, Roger Ailes.


... never thought I'd say that.

gwaaargh
Jul 7, 2010

by XyloJW


Knockknees posted:

I think a new thread and new major developments call for some kind of updated infographic showing all the major connections here. Then again, it's so dense it's more of a fog than a web.

Honestly, it was some of the amazing webs and graphics that were drawn up last summer that really helped me absorb the depth and scope (looking back, how little we knew then!) of the scandal, and got me to follow it regularly here on SA and on twitter since then. I'd attempt one myself, but I only really have a good handle on a few bits and corners of the whole mess.

edit: the point I'm meandering to is that it could be a good tool to reignite general interest and awareness, if well done.

I had a stab at it:



But seriously, I think it would be an extremely useful resource. Wasn't there a master spreadsheet with lots of information on the suspects/people involved in the scandal?

gwaaargh fucked around with this message at Sep 18, 2012 around 14:32

Knockknees
Dec 21, 2004

sprung out fully formed


Honestly, it was some of the amazing webs and graphics that were drawn up last summer that really helped me absorb the depth and scope (looking back, how little we knew then!) of the scandal, and got me to follow it regularly here on SA and on twitter since then. I'd attempt one myself, but I only really have a good handle on a few bits and corners of the whole mess.

edit: the point I'm meandering to is that it could be a good tool to reignite general interest and awareness, if well done.

Brown Moses
Feb 22, 2002


If you are on Twitter I'd highly recommended following iTrackUK, occasionally Tweeting stuff that's not in the public domain.

Brown Moses fucked around with this message at Sep 18, 2012 around 17:50

Mr Cuddles
Jan 29, 2010

Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders.

I made a venn diagram about this scandal. This should help people get a clearer understanding of what's going on:

Brown Moses
Feb 22, 2002


I'm expecting at least a million retweets.

Chocolate Teapot
May 8, 2009


Warcabbit posted:

I remain completely effing amazed how Fox News really doesn't appear to have done any of this stuff. Thank you for your integrity, Roger Ailes.


... never thought I'd say that.

Not wanting to push the thread off-topic, but Fox News doesn't break (or even report) news, instead showing everything through a very particular lens, or else completely making things up. It's a set of opinion pieces stretched out to a TV channel.

Sex Vicar
Oct 11, 2007

I thought this was a swingers party...


gwaaargh posted:

Well, the bitter cynic in me says that because this happened to MPs and the police - a class of people who apparently deserve and necessitate constant and intrusive surveillance, like moaning 'slebs - people will ignore it.

The press are also busy trying to prove what good little moral guardians they are by condemning the Kate topless photos and exposing those evil, smelly, corrupt French editors who ran the photos and embarassed ARE KATIE. Even though they have no problem using pap snaps of Selena Gomez on holiday sunbathing with her boobs almost hanging out of her bikini and splashing that in todays paper while they act all self righteous in the editorial section. So the public is distracted by that at the minute as that is the agenda. I'd imagine today's police shooting is going to dominate the headlines tomorrow as well.

Andy Impey
Sep 2, 2011


Why has no-one gone with the burglary story? There's only four articles about it on Google News, only one from a 'proper' newspaper. Is it not true? Is it legally dodgy enough that no-one but the Indie will touch it?

Zombywuf
Mar 29, 2008



Andy Impey posted:

Why has no-one gone with the burglary story? There's only four articles about it on Google News, only one from a 'proper' newspaper. Is it not true? Is it legally dodgy enough that no-one but the Indie will touch it?

Their legal departments are probably hastily checking to see how many burglaries they've committed.

HUGE PUBES A PLUS
Apr 30, 2005




College Slice

Between the hacking scandal, duchess tits and now this, I don't understand how British contempt for the media hasn't reached critical mass yet. Are people on the street to the point where they're saying "I'll never buy another newspaper again?"

I suppose if Fox News did any investigative reporting they might be more under the gun.

thebardyspoon
Jun 30, 2005


Highspeeddub posted:

Between the hacking scandal, duchess tits and now this, I don't understand how British contempt for the media hasn't reached critical mass yet. Are people on the street to the point where they're saying "I'll never buy another newspaper again?"

I suppose if Fox News did any investigative reporting they might be more under the gun.

You might be overestimating how much the average person gives a poo poo about this.

Murderion
Oct 4, 2009

2019. New York is in ruins. The global economy is spiralling. Cyborgs rule over poisoned wastes.

The only time that's left is
FUN TIME

The Indie posted:

When contacted. Mr Fillery, who now runs a pub in Norfolk, also issued a denial, saying: "It's most definitely not correct. Let me tell you about the News of the World – despite their reputation, they behaved very correctly. The only reason they employed us was to stand stories up. We committed no criminal offences."

OK, so the usual suspects in this have gone past spin, through verifiable lies and are now making statements from an alternative universe where Rupert Murdoch is a jolly bumbling fat man who conducts a fleet of talking trains on a magical island.

Geokinesis
Jan 22, 2012

*snort*


I really would like to see a reaction to this by the general public, but I guess duchess tits trump all.

(Thread title should totally have been Hackgate 2 - Elected Burgleoo)

pitch a fitness
Mar 19, 2010


So there's been a couple of mentions of the network graphs that were put up in the last thread. I'm planning on getting back into working on them, now that I've finally got some time to do so again. Work has been especially hectic in the past six months and in that time there has been a lot revealed that can be mapped out. These two issues combined have resulted in a disastrously complex graph (simple version, last updated at the end of May) because I kept on throwing in extra connections as they arose, without any real plan or theory. The new plan is a focus on clarity and smaller networks that can be interlinked, if needed.

In the meantime, I took a look at some different data today as some people have been wondering whether the current revelations are going to have much exposure in the press. I ran a quick search of "phone hacking" in a newspaper archive database and have plotted the number of articles published each month. The graph below shows a y-axis log plot of average number of articles published a day in each month from Jan 2010 (the month before the first CMSC report was published) up until today. As would be expected, spikes in the number of articles match up very nicely with events in this timeline. I've marked a few of the big ones:



I've adjusted the data so it's articles per day because months aren't uniform in length, Spetember isn't finished yet, and I'm a pedant. I've used a log y-axis in that graph because of this:



and just for 'fun' here's how article publication rate about phone hacking fares against article publication about something nicer. There's no correlation, sadly:



Will this new stuff coming out be another bump, like Sean Hoare's? I guess it's just a case of wait-and-see for now.

Hong XiuQuan
Feb 19, 2008

"Without justice for the Palestinians there will be no peace in the Middle East."

Firing Cirrus posted:

So there's been a couple of mentions of the network graphs that were put up in the last thread. I'm planning on getting back into working on them, now that I've finally got some time to do so again. Work has been especially hectic in the past six months and in that time there has been a lot revealed that can be mapped out. These two issues combined have resulted in a disastrously complex graph (simple version, last updated at the end of May) because I kept on throwing in extra connections as they arose, without any real plan or theory. The new plan is a focus on clarity and smaller networks that can be interlinked, if needed.

In the meantime, I took a look at some different data today as some people have been wondering whether the current revelations are going to have much exposure in the press. I ran a quick search of "phone hacking" in a newspaper archive database and have plotted the number of articles published each month. The graph below shows a y-axis log plot of average number of articles published a day in each month from Jan 2010 (the month before the first CMSC report was published) up until today. As would be expected, spikes in the number of articles match up very nicely with events in this timeline. I've marked a few of the big ones:



I've adjusted the data so it's articles per day because months aren't uniform in length, Spetember isn't finished yet, and I'm a pedant. I've used a log y-axis in that graph because of this:



and just for 'fun' here's how article publication rate about phone hacking fares against article publication about something nicer. There's no correlation, sadly:



Will this new stuff coming out be another bump, like Sean Hoare's? I guess it's just a case of wait-and-see for now.

This is brilliant

Brown Moses
Feb 22, 2002


Firing Cirrus posted:

So there's been a couple of mentions of the network graphs that were put up in the last thread. I'm planning on getting back into working on them, now that I've finally got some time to do so again. Work has been especially hectic in the past six months and in that time there has been a lot revealed that can be mapped out. These two issues combined have resulted in a disastrously complex graph (simple version, last updated at the end of May) because I kept on throwing in extra connections as they arose, without any real plan or theory. The new plan is a focus on clarity and smaller networks that can be interlinked, if needed.

In the meantime, I took a look at some different data today as some people have been wondering whether the current revelations are going to have much exposure in the press. I ran a quick search of "phone hacking" in a newspaper archive database and have plotted the number of articles published each month. The graph below shows a y-axis log plot of average number of articles published a day in each month from Jan 2010 (the month before the first CMSC report was published) up until today. As would be expected, spikes in the number of articles match up very nicely with events in this timeline. I've marked a few of the big ones:



I've adjusted the data so it's articles per day because months aren't uniform in length, Spetember isn't finished yet, and I'm a pedant. I've used a log y-axis in that graph because of this:



and just for 'fun' here's how article publication rate about phone hacking fares against article publication about something nicer. There's no correlation, sadly:



Will this new stuff coming out be another bump, like Sean Hoare's? I guess it's just a case of wait-and-see for now.

Mind if I post this on my blog? Sure plenty of people would find it interesting.

Meanwhile, there's been 3 more hackgate arrests

quote:

Operation Elveden: Police officer and journalists held

Police probing alleged corrupt payments to public officials have arrested a serving officer and two journalists.

A 39-year-old Wiltshire Police officer was held at his home in the county on suspicion of misconduct and conspiracy to commit misconduct.

The two journalists were arrested at their home addresses on suspicion of conspiracy to corrupt and conspiracy to cause misconduct.

A 51-year man was held in Bristol and a 32-year-old man in south-east London.

Scotland Yard said the arrests were the result of information provided by News Corporation's management standards committee, which was set up in the wake of the phone-hacking scandal.

Operation Elveden is investigating allegations of inappropriate payments to police and public officials, and runs alongside Operation Weeting, the probe into phone hacking.

pitch a fitness
Mar 19, 2010


Brown Moses posted:

Mind if I post this on my blog? Sure plenty of people would find it interesting.

Meanwhile, there's been 3 more hackgate arrests

Sure, go ahead. If you want to make any modifications that's fine too, just let me know through firing[dot]cirrus[at]gmail[dot]com (I locked myself out of the old hotmail one).

kingturnip
Apr 18, 2008


thebardyspoon posted:

You might be overestimating how much the average person gives a poo poo about this.

I remember back while Leveson was still going on, friends saying they wished it was all over, because they were getting tired of hearing about it. If it looks like it involves politicians, lots of people just turn off. Short of making people take a 50-item multiple-choice test before they're allowed to vote, I'm not sure it's possible to force people to pay attention.

Brown Moses
Feb 22, 2002


Firing Cirrus posted:

Sure, go ahead. If you want to make any modifications that's fine too, just let me know through firing[dot]cirrus[at]gmail[dot]com (I locked myself out of the old hotmail one).

Thanks, put it up here.

thehustler
Apr 17, 2004

I am very curious about this little crescendo


kingturnip posted:

I remember back while Leveson was still going on, friends saying they wished it was all over, because they were getting tired of hearing about it. If it looks like it involves politicians, lots of people just turn off. Short of making people take a 50-item multiple-choice test before they're allowed to vote, I'm not sure it's possible to force people to pay attention.

Mate of mine yesterday said it was all "theatre" and that nothing was going to come of it.

Tried to explain that the theatre was because it was the first enquiry held with social media and full-time streaming and that the media/public interest was higher than anything before. And that the report wasn't out yet so he should wait.

Brown Moses
Feb 22, 2002


Tabloid Troll has a couple of interesting Tweets about today's arrests

quote:

Interesting that one of the hacks arrested today had agreed a voluntary redundancy package agreed b4 being shopped by MSC - moneysaver?

Arrested journo agreed redundo at same time as group of subs - kept asking where money was after they got theirs. Month later arrested.

Sodomy Hussein
Oct 9, 2005

The right reading for this is the one I'm giving.

Brown Moses posted:

Tabloid Troll has a couple of interesting Tweets about today's arrests

Say, not to pry, but what is your background in all this? Just some well-connected blogger/tweeter?

Mr Cuddles
Jan 29, 2010

Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders.

OneThousandMonkeys posted:

Say, not to pry, but what is your background in all this? Just some well-connected blogger/tweeter?

I've got his full name and address if you want it, JAMES "OneThousandMonkeys" MURDOCH

Brown Moses
Feb 22, 2002


OneThousandMonkeys posted:

Say, not to pry, but what is your background in all this? Just some well-connected blogger/tweeter?

Yes, that's probably the best way of putting it. Think of me a Kevin Costner in Field of Dreams, and my blog being the baseball diamond he builds.

Brown Moses
Feb 22, 2002


quote:

Leveson may face Commons committee

Lord Justice Leveson has spent nine months interrogating the newspaper industry about ethics and relationships with the police and politicians, but now the tables may be turned. He may be summoned before a parliamentary committee to be quizzed about his proposals for future regulation of the press.

Paul Farrelly, a Labour MP on the Commons culture, media and sport select committee, told a gathering of Hacked Off campaigners on Monday night that Leveson may be invited to make an appearance once his report offering the government proposals on the future regulation of the press is finalised later this year.

"We might have Lord Justice Leveson in front of us at the select committee to see why his model is better than others in the industry," he said.

It is understood that the committee is also going to summon Lord Hunt, the chairman of the Press Complaints Commission, at the same time to compare and contrast their models for a new regulatory system.

The committee believes that asking Leveson to appear is within its remit as he will be one of many offering proposals for a successor to the PCC.

If he does attend a culture select committee hearing, Leveson will face questions from some new faces.

Labour's Tom Watson has resigned because of rules that prohibit frontbenchers sitting on select committees and Conservative MP Louise Mensch's place has been vacated following her decision to quit parliament and the UK to live in New York.

Tory MPs Damian Collins and Therese Coffey are also stepping down from the committee.

thehustler
Apr 17, 2004

I am very curious about this little crescendo


Is Tom Watson a Labour frontbencher now?

Brown Moses
Feb 22, 2002


thehustler posted:

Is Tom Watson a Labour frontbencher now?

That's what has confused me, there's not been a shadow cabinet reshuffle, and I hadn't heard of one planned. Maybe he knows something we don't?

[edit] It's a Guardian gently caress up apparently.

Brown Moses fucked around with this message at Sep 19, 2012 around 10:49

HCO Plumer GCB GCM
Apr 29, 2010

"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...ne-hacking.html

Will be interesting to see the outcome of this little matter.

Mellomeh
Jun 12, 2006


thehustler posted:

Is Tom Watson a Labour frontbencher now?

He's technically been a frontbencher for quite some time, since he was made Deputy Chair. There was a 'row' about this just under a year ago. Presumably he's chosen to resign because the important part of his work on the committee is now done. Or he knows he's about to be promoted.

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Hong XiuQuan
Feb 19, 2008

"Without justice for the Palestinians there will be no peace in the Middle East."

Brown Moses posted:

That's what has confused me, there's not been a shadow cabinet reshuffle, and I hadn't heard of one planned. Maybe he knows something we don't?

[edit] It's a Guardian gently caress up apparently.

So he's still on the committee?

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