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Hong XiuQuan
Feb 19, 2008

"Without justice for the Palestinians there will be no peace in the Middle East."

Antinumeric posted:

Isn't this Treason or something. I mean I expect people to go away for the rest of their lives for this poo poo.

It violates God knows how many laws... these people probably could go away for the rest of their lives.

Aside - in the last few pages of the last thread, hacks proclaiming exclusive about NotW using investigative company linked to murder... pretty sure Tom Watson talks about this at length in his book and that he's been banging on about this for some time. I'm embarrassed for the remaining embers of our press.

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Hong XiuQuan
Feb 19, 2008

"Without justice for the Palestinians there will be no peace in the Middle East."

Firing Cirrus posted:

So there's been a couple of mentions of the network graphs that were put up in the last thread. I'm planning on getting back into working on them, now that I've finally got some time to do so again. Work has been especially hectic in the past six months and in that time there has been a lot revealed that can be mapped out. These two issues combined have resulted in a disastrously complex graph (simple version, last updated at the end of May) because I kept on throwing in extra connections as they arose, without any real plan or theory. The new plan is a focus on clarity and smaller networks that can be interlinked, if needed.

In the meantime, I took a look at some different data today as some people have been wondering whether the current revelations are going to have much exposure in the press. I ran a quick search of "phone hacking" in a newspaper archive database and have plotted the number of articles published each month. The graph below shows a y-axis log plot of average number of articles published a day in each month from Jan 2010 (the month before the first CMSC report was published) up until today. As would be expected, spikes in the number of articles match up very nicely with events in this timeline. I've marked a few of the big ones:



I've adjusted the data so it's articles per day because months aren't uniform in length, Spetember isn't finished yet, and I'm a pedant. I've used a log y-axis in that graph because of this:



and just for 'fun' here's how article publication rate about phone hacking fares against article publication about something nicer. There's no correlation, sadly:



Will this new stuff coming out be another bump, like Sean Hoare's? I guess it's just a case of wait-and-see for now.

This is brilliant

Hong XiuQuan
Feb 19, 2008

"Without justice for the Palestinians there will be no peace in the Middle East."

Brown Moses posted:

That's what has confused me, there's not been a shadow cabinet reshuffle, and I hadn't heard of one planned. Maybe he knows something we don't?

[edit] It's a Guardian gently caress up apparently.

So he's still on the committee?

Hong XiuQuan
Feb 19, 2008

"Without justice for the Palestinians there will be no peace in the Middle East."

The Supreme Court posted:

Ofcom have ruled that Sky is "fit and proper" despite pretty much every possible indication that they're not.

It's a bit of a cop-out, but I think there's a warning in it: 'we do not consider, having taken into account all the relevant factors, that on the evidence available to date Sky is no longer fit and proper to hold broadcast licences.'

Seems to me if more poo poo attaches to Sky this may change.

*edit* the entire document is embedded in this article: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...es-Murdoch.html

You can probably find it elsewhere. I had a quick read through it and it seems fairly reasonable. Ofcom basically saying that while JM and RM behaviour is relevant to whether or not they are fit and proper there are four obstacles:

1) Not enough evidence of direct involvement;
2) Not enough evidence of direct involvement affecting Sky;
3) While JM has influence over the board as a Director and Shareholder, there are other Directors as well which could have a moderating influence; and
4) Sky has a fairly clean regulatory sheet and has been successful for the last decade.

Hong XiuQuan fucked around with this message at Sep 20, 2012 around 08:23

Hong XiuQuan
Feb 19, 2008

"Without justice for the Palestinians there will be no peace in the Middle East."

Brown Moses posted:

I've heard nothing about Sky News, not sure if he's means they were directly involved in stuff or not, or it's a general News Corp thing.

Really doubt any action will be taken against BSkyB in any case (by OfCom). I'm hoping shareholder action could be taken against the Murdochs - hit them hard in the US. Has Fox News been covering the story around this report?

Hong XiuQuan
Feb 19, 2008

"Without justice for the Palestinians there will be no peace in the Middle East."

She's horrible. Surprised she has time to write when juggling the heavy loads of being a submissive wife and failing at social media.

(saying submissive here not as a misogynistic insult but because her rear end husband clearly gave her a choice brtween marriage and her political career)

Hong XiuQuan
Feb 19, 2008

"Without justice for the Palestinians there will be no peace in the Middle East."

Mr. Squishy posted:

That's quite the leap to make there. There were plenty of reasons for her to quit her seat, not least the looming prospect of her constituents sacking her first chance they get.

Yeah, maybe. I still have the feeling that she was pushed more towards quittibg by her husband so she could genuinely 'focus on the family' and pursue their crazy business ventures. I think she genuinely liked her role as MP, and don't think the decision was fully hers, though yes there were probably a whole load of other factors including those you guys have menshnd

Hong XiuQuan
Feb 19, 2008

"Without justice for the Palestinians there will be no peace in the Middle East."

Surprised they received bail at all to be honest. Worried they may now try to destroy evidence.

Hong XiuQuan
Feb 19, 2008

"Without justice for the Palestinians there will be no peace in the Middle East."

Richard Littlejohn is hilariously awful in the Mail:

Twat posted:

If Savile was alive today, he'd be a star witness at Leveson - given the full 'Sir James' treatment and allowed to trash the Press

[...]

Some newspapers did try to stand up the allegations, without success. But they had to tread carefully.

How far was Fleet Street supposed to go? What if it heard that Savile had been leaving voice or text messages on a 14-year-old girl’s mobile phone, had such a thing existed back then?

What if a photographer dressed as a BBC commissionaire had burst into Savile’s dressing room hoping to catch him molesting a schoolgirl?

What if a newspaper had camped out in his front garden, staked out his caravan, or shouted through his letter box. What if a reporter — shock horror — had been caught buying a drink for one of the investigating officers?

And then imagine the evidence had fallen short of proof positive.

If Jimmy Savile was alive today, he’d have been a star witness at Leveson, given the full ‘Sir James’ treatment by his lordship and allowed to trash the Press without fear of contradiction or cross-examination.

[...]

Hong XiuQuan
Feb 19, 2008

"Without justice for the Palestinians there will be no peace in the Middle East."

Gambrinus posted:

Tomorrow's Independent front page. http://twitpic.com/b4i3ty

Article is up online:

The Indie posted:

Private emails between David Cameron and the former News International chief executive Rebekah Brooks have been withheld from the Leveson Inquiry after the Prime Minister sought personal legal advice, The Independent can reveal.

The cache of documents, which runs to dozens of emails and is also thought to include messages sent to Andy Coulson while he was still a Rupert Murdoch employee, was not disclosed after No 10 was advised by a Government lawyer that it was not “relevant” to the inquiry into press standards.

The contents of the private emails are described by sources as containing “embarrassing” exchanges. They hold the potential to cast further light on the close personal relationship between the Prime Minister and two of the media mogul’s most senior lieutenants.

However Mr Cameron, as part of legal briefings he received before and after his appearance before the inquiry, was said to have been advised that the Brooks-Coulson emails were outside Sir Brian Leveson’s remit and so he did not need to offer them up to form part of his report, expected to be published next month.

Although the Leveson Inquiry agreed to keep private a number of text messages between Mr Cameron and Mrs Brooks – disclosed by News International – after accepting that they were “irrelevant to its terms of reference”, no agreement was made for any emails or texts originating from Downing Street.

Sources within the inquiry have indicated that while documents detailing Mr Cameron’s meetings with media figures were received from No 10, it had received none of the Brooks-Cameron emails. An inquiry source confirmed: “Everything we got from No 10 we published.”

During his evidence to the inquiry in June, Mr Cameron said his officials would continue to search for emails related to News Corps’ controversial bid for control of BSkyB. He promised: “If any are found, I will make them available to the inquiry.” Leveson sources said that No 10 had not subsequently told the inquiry it had turned up anything.

Downing Street told The Independent last night that “no further relevant material had been found” following the PM’s appearance. Downing Street made no comment on who made the decision on what was deemed “relevant” and what was not. A spokeswoman said: “In common with previous Prime Ministers, the PM sought legal advice in order to co-operate fully with a judicial inquiry.”

The disclosure of the existence of the emails may be embarrassing for Mr Cameron, who personally ordered the Leveson Inquiry in the wake of the News of the World phone hacking scandal.

A senior Labour MP last night called for the dossier to be released, saying it was vital for the Prime Minister to have given full disclosure.

Chris Bryant, a victim of hacking who has been one of the leading campaigners on the issue, said: “If the Prime Minister has taken any steps to prevent any material, relevant or not – whether texts, emails or notes of conversations, between David Cameron and Rebekah Brooks, Andy Coulson and News International – from coming into the public domain, then people will think this is yet another instance of the Prime Minister being less than straightforward with the country.”

Mr Bryant, a shadow Home Office spokesman, said it should not be up to a lawyer inside Downing Street to decide whether a text or email was relevant to the Leveson Inquiry: “The PM must make sure that every single communication that passed between himself and Brooks and Coulson is made available to the inquiry, and more important, to the public.”

The relationship between Mr Cameron and Mrs Brooks, who is awaiting trial on charges she denies of conspiring to hack phones and conspiring to pervert the course justice, and Mr Coulson, who became the Conservative leader’s media chief in 2007, was closely scrutinised by the inquiry.

The former editor of The Sun and the NOTW was asked by the inquiry’s counsel, Robert Jay QC, about the frequency of contact between herself and Mr Cameron when she was News international’s chief executive. She said they texted each other sometimes twice a week, occasionally signing off using the acronym LOL, which Mr Cameron stopped using when told it stood for “laugh out loud” and not “lots of love”. Mrs Brooks did not mention email exchanges.

News International provided the inquiry with text messages between Mrs Brooks and Mr Cameron over three months between 2009 and 2011 which had been retrieved from her phone.

During Mr Cameron’s evidence to the inquiry in June, its lawyer Robert Jay QC said it had been decided that all but one of the text messages was “irrelevant” to Lord Justice Leveson’s terms of reference.

In the disclosed message, sent in October 2009, Mrs Brooks wished the then Leader of the Opposition good luck with his conference speech, adding that “professionally we’re definitely in this together”.

News International provided texts to the inquiry following a request under Section 21 of the Inquiries Act, which was used to compel witnesses to provide evidence.

No politician who gave evidence to Leveson did so under section 21 rules.

A spokesman for the Leveson Inquiry said: “We haven’t given a running commentary on the background to evidence and we will not do so now.”

Hong XiuQuan
Feb 19, 2008

"Without justice for the Palestinians there will be no peace in the Middle East."

Zephro posted:

I ask this a lot but never really get a satisfactory answer: how are gagging clauses in contracts (assuming she has one) actually legal? In the case you postulate they'd basically be saying "here's some money to ensure you don't tell anyone about criminal activity". Is that really enforceable in a court of law? If I burgle someone's house and bribe their neighbour not to tell them about it and the neighbour blabs anyway, can I really sue him for breach of contract?

No, but if you do say anything about something that's not illegal you may have breached a contract and depending on thwarted nature of the breach and the type of lossh you could face significant problems. It's also often much easier to prove a contract breach than, say, a tortious breach of duty. Recompense and liability are often defined.

This can have the effect of broadly silencing someone because you might not know if you have enough evidence to prove an illegal act etc.

Hong XiuQuan
Feb 19, 2008

"Without justice for the Palestinians there will be no peace in the Middle East."

Zephro posted:

OK, thanks. So they're basically an abuse of the legal system?

Yeah, I tend to see it that way.

Hong XiuQuan
Feb 19, 2008

"Without justice for the Palestinians there will be no peace in the Middle East."

Some interesting drama on Twitter last night. Front page of today's Daily Mail claimed Peter Rippon (of Newsnight) had resigned ahead of tonight's Panorama Savile show. Except Peter Rippon denied it last night. Claim is still on DM page and expecting lots of comparisons to BBC situation and the subject of Levenson Enq. Throughout the week.

Hong XiuQuan
Feb 19, 2008

"Without justice for the Palestinians there will be no peace in the Middle East."

Plavski posted:

It's official now.

No, it's not: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-20024904

He's 'stepping aside' which may sound like bullshit language, but pending an investigation, he's still in the job. It sounds like (from the reports about the Panorama programme) that there's no evidence that he was pressured to make a decision and, if true, he'll remain in his post.

Hong XiuQuan
Feb 19, 2008

"Without justice for the Palestinians there will be no peace in the Middle East."

Brown Moses posted:

Tom Watson has as bee in his bonnet today, he's been asking Neil Wallis, formally of the NotW about his former staff members activities:

Very interesting. Hope this leads somewhere.

Hong XiuQuan
Feb 19, 2008

"Without justice for the Palestinians there will be no peace in the Middle East."

Loonytoad Quack posted:

It's all hotting up again:


From what's going around on Twitter at the moment it appears to relate to the time when Piers Morgan was Editor.

e: More details here (NB: paste the link into Google then click the result to get around the paywall): http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/15613358-...144feabdc0.html

A notable extract:

And this is tomorrow's FT front page:



Wonder how Morgan will wriggle out of this?

Hong XiuQuan
Feb 19, 2008

"Without justice for the Palestinians there will be no peace in the Middle East."

Tithin Melias posted:

He lives in the states. He'll simply deny it and refuse to cooperate, while tweeting pithy comments to try and diminish the effects of the allegations.

He's not a citizen (yet) though, is he? Anyone know if this gives him less protection from extradition if required?

Hong XiuQuan
Feb 19, 2008

"Without justice for the Palestinians there will be no peace in the Middle East."

Brown Moses posted:

Charlotte Church just followed me on Twitter, she only follows 260 people, and I'm guessing it's not for my Syria work.



Might be interested in your take on the Pentateuch

Hong XiuQuan
Feb 19, 2008

"Without justice for the Palestinians there will be no peace in the Middle East."

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad posted:

It would be frankly outstanding if Paul "poo poo" Staines gets dragged to court over this.

Would really be the cherry on the shitcake

Hong XiuQuan
Feb 19, 2008

"Without justice for the Palestinians there will be no peace in the Middle East."

Zephro posted:

To tell us all about how tractor production is up 544% and the economy will reach the sunlit uplands any minute now.

This whole "oh no, not statutory regulation" approach that so much of the press is adopting boggles the mind. If they'd found estate agents routinely breaking the law you can bet the response wouldn't be "welp, better let them self-regulate". The naked, unclothed self-interest is breathtaking.

What is mind-boggling is how many politicians seem to support the lack of legislation. gently caress you Pickles.

Hong XiuQuan
Feb 19, 2008

"Without justice for the Palestinians there will be no peace in the Middle East."

Zero Gravitas posted:

Does anyone know who wins the "called it!" stakes if it comes out cameron/brooks had an affair? I think I said something in the original thread but I cant remember - someone else might have done that when we were throwing out "This poo poo could go anywhere, even <xyz>" scenarios.

That would be brilliant. Brooken Britain.

Hong XiuQuan
Feb 19, 2008

"Without justice for the Palestinians there will be no peace in the Middle East."

Looks like more trouble for Cameron: 'Prominent conservatives urges "genuinely independent" press regulation'

Who subs these?

Hong XiuQuan
Feb 19, 2008

"Without justice for the Palestinians there will be no peace in the Middle East."

Brown Moses please tell me you aren't agreeing with that Thurbeck retweet

Hong XiuQuan
Feb 19, 2008

"Without justice for the Palestinians there will be no peace in the Middle East."

Brown Moses posted:

God no, just wanted to let my followers know his opinion on the matter, remind everyone he's still around.

Thank Christ. Thought you'd joined the heckling hacks for a moment there.

Hong XiuQuan
Feb 19, 2008

"Without justice for the Palestinians there will be no peace in the Middle East."

Brown Moses posted:

Credit to Neil Wallis he's been fairly level headed about this, although still a bit butthurt about the whole "NotW being closed" thing.

Yeah, he's at last thrown a compliment newsnight's way.

Hong XiuQuan
Feb 19, 2008

"Without justice for the Palestinians there will be no peace in the Middle East."

Brown Moses you big Twitter cocktease. When's the news coming out?

Hong XiuQuan
Feb 19, 2008

"Without justice for the Palestinians there will be no peace in the Middle East."

Is it wrong to want Murdoch to spend the rest of his life in prison?

Hong XiuQuan
Feb 19, 2008

"Without justice for the Palestinians there will be no peace in the Middle East."

Brown Moses posted:

I think the lower down the food chain they go the more likely that is, but Coulson and Brooks must realise they are facing a lot of jail time at the moment.

There's no way Brooks could handle prison. I imagine she'll sing like a canary soon. How long before she vomits beans all over the place?

Hong XiuQuan
Feb 19, 2008

"Without justice for the Palestinians there will be no peace in the Middle East."

Brown Moses posted:

I've been rejected by the BBC journalism trainee scheme, loving sucks.

Guardian CIF was posting on Twitter looking for stories to commission - you could try thinking of something to write and submitting a summary to them to give you a kickstart. Get as much writing off your blog done as possible.

https://twitter.com/commentisfree/s...817813684420608 <-- not sure they're inviting submissions or just ideas but get in touch with them anyway.

Also judging by your Twitter feed, you *must* have some contacts who can help you commission work or at least joint commission work - anyone from the beeb or other broadsheets. Have you considered asking @jackofkent to help you get an opinion piece in the broadsheets.

This way you can bypass the journalism trainee bit which would probably funnel you towards production and get acknowledged right away for your writing.

Hong XiuQuan fucked around with this message at Nov 20, 2012 around 13:39

Hong XiuQuan
Feb 19, 2008

"Without justice for the Palestinians there will be no peace in the Middle East."

Could be wrong but I think Murdoch trying to lesson impact on his companies should things go tits up (looks likely)

Hong XiuQuan
Feb 19, 2008

"Without justice for the Palestinians there will be no peace in the Middle East."

prefect posted:

It's commonly accepted (by Americans, at least) that UKanian libel laws are insanely broad and powerful. How, then, do they wind up with all the crazy poo poo in their tabloids without being sued out of existence? (I'm sure I'm just missing something obvious.)

They're a little archaic and generally the preserve of the rich or the lucky. I still prefer our system to the US, where pretty much anything goes and (partly) as a result Yanks end up with the most comical news system on the planet.

E.g. in theory US media could probably get away with "Defense Secretary Lord McLoltwat: a colossal paedophile?" I'm surprised Obama isn't regularly accused by US hacks of being an immigrant benefit-sponging paedo.

Hong XiuQuan fucked around with this message at Nov 26, 2012 around 14:08

Hong XiuQuan
Feb 19, 2008

"Without justice for the Palestinians there will be no peace in the Middle East."

If you watch the first episode of Jonathan Creek, the hack journalist in it uses the technique to access someone's phone mail. That's right - it was so widespread in the 1990s that the producers were probably advised by a journo that this was a technique for every intrepid reporter.

Hong XiuQuan
Feb 19, 2008

"Without justice for the Palestinians there will be no peace in the Middle East."

If you want to watch it and you're in the UK, then: http://www.channel4.com/programmes/...he-tabloids/4od

Hong XiuQuan
Feb 19, 2008

"Without justice for the Palestinians there will be no peace in the Middle East."

Hallucinogenic Toreador posted:

Is it fair to characterise Leveson's proposal as statutory regulation one step removed? It sounds like he's recommending a self regulatory body that is itself subject to statutory regulation.

Any independent body with any kind of teeth would have to have statutory authority. It's a lot of hoohaa about press freedom without realising that in order to be able to achieve anything as a quasi-judicial body it would have to have powers granted by statute.

Hong XiuQuan
Feb 19, 2008

"Without justice for the Palestinians there will be no peace in the Middle East."

Actually looking forward to stories carrying titles like "Saddam's Revenge: Return of the Pants" or "Toppled Tyrant Takes Tabloid To Task".

Hong XiuQuan
Feb 19, 2008

"Without justice for the Palestinians there will be no peace in the Middle East."

Brown Moses posted:

Supposedly he was up to something that would be of interest to Operation Tuleta...

Goddamn, this feeling must be like the feeling of those closely watching Watergate.

Hong XiuQuan
Feb 19, 2008

"Without justice for the Palestinians there will be no peace in the Middle East."

Lord of the Llamas posted:

Please ask a BBC journalist why they think it is you were rejected from the BBC journalism recruitment program or whatever its called! The facial/logical contortions would be well worth it.

That would be a stupid question and wouldn't be doing BM any favours.

Something that would help is popping a profile up on LinkedIn (couldn't find you so presuming you don't have one). Add the journalists you've been dealing with as connections. Put links up to your work and profiles on you. Good start.

And think about capitalising on some of the recent attention. Write a book about it (it's never too soon). Then you can write a retrospective in a year or two. You could probably get away with one on the weapons issues and one on Hackgate fwiw.

Hong XiuQuan fucked around with this message at Mar 24, 2013 around 10:22

Hong XiuQuan
Feb 19, 2008

"Without justice for the Palestinians there will be no peace in the Middle East."

HCO Plumer GCB GCM posted:

I agree with all of this, but there's nothing wrong with slewing an answer to a question that's almost bound to come up in one interview or another along the lines of "where do you see this going in the future" by casually mentioning that you're a free agent currently but would welcome the chance to put these skills into practice professionally. It's called "nailing your colours to the mast".

How many potential employers reading these articles have no idea that BM "doesn't" already have a job in journalism ? Put the drat question into their heads.

No, that's all great. I meant more the "Ask random BBC journo why you didn't get a trainee role, that'll make him squirm!" thing. Saying "I'm a free agent at the moment looking for work" is great - spread the word!

Hong XiuQuan
Feb 19, 2008

"Without justice for the Palestinians there will be no peace in the Middle East."

Brown Moses posted:

Hopefully this will actually go somewhere this time

I've written about this in the past in much more detail here. The whole thing is a massive travesty of justice.

Going to take this as a prompt for everyone to read Untouchables

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Hong XiuQuan
Feb 19, 2008

"Without justice for the Palestinians there will be no peace in the Middle East."

Zephro posted:

Isn't there a legal doctrine in some countries that says that if you delete things relevant to an investigation, the court will assume they were as damaging as possible and use that information as part of the trial?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adverse_inference

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