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  • Locked thread
Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

Chas McGill posted:

Her eyes are the size of the stroopwaffels they sell at Starbucks and she doesn't have a nose. I thought that was the moe thing? Anyway, I'll shut up until I've seen the first episode.
It's pretty toned down compared to actual moe shows.

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Guyver
Dec 5, 2006

I'm pretty sure that's just how Akira Amano draws young women. It's not like giant eyes and tiny noses were invented in the last ten years.

turn off the TV
Aug 4, 2010

moderately annoying

From watching the first episode, it seems like the entire point of this show is that the system for detecting crimes in advance actually doesn't really work as intended at all, and the protagonist is more or less aware of that. Stress is picked up in the system alongside criminal intent.

The rest of your problems seem like you don't like the infodump exposition that they did, either. I didn't like it, either, but the rest of the show seems interesting enough to make up for it.


First episode was pretty good. :toot:

Chas McGill
Oct 29, 2010

loves Fat Philippe


:colbert:

Wonder what criminality rating Master Keaton would have?

Good_Haro
Mar 14, 2009

Noted shitposter.

Giggily posted:

From watching the first episode, it seems like the entire point of this show is that the system for detecting crimes in advance actually doesn't really work as intended at all, and the protagonist is more or less aware of that. Stress is picked up in the system alongside criminal intent.

The rest of your problems seem like you don't like the infodump exposition that they did, either. I didn't like it, either, but the rest of the show seems interesting enough to make up for it.


First episode was pretty good. :toot:

I think if that was the point, it was executed very hamfistedly. Further, if this is how the society works, how does Akane even see it as something wrong immediately? Shouldn't she be indoctrinated to this poo poo? Especially if she's a law-enforcement officer? It just doesn't make any goddamn sense and the premise was interesting so it's actually infuriating.

turn off the TV
Aug 4, 2010

moderately annoying

Good_Haro posted:

I think if that was the point, it was executed very hamfistedly. Further, if this is how the society works, how does Akane even see it as something wrong immediately? Shouldn't she be indoctrinated to this poo poo? Especially if she's a law-enforcement officer? It just doesn't make any goddamn sense and the premise was interesting so it's actually infuriating.

Well, she did mention that she wrote a paper about the subject, and pretty much nobody else besides her seems to consider any alternatives. There were a lot of hints in the writing that this is more or less the case. I dunno, I'm not expecting that much from the first episode besides establishing the who's and the what's for the series.

Good_Haro
Mar 14, 2009

Noted shitposter.

Giggily posted:

Well, she did mention that she wrote a paper about the subject, and pretty much nobody else besides her seems to consider any alternatives. There were a lot of hints in the writing that this is more or less the case. I dunno, I'm not expecting that much from the first episode besides establishing the who's and the what's for the series.

In that case why didn't she seem to know about the contagion factor of the criminal coefficient? Why didn't she know about the use of high-coefficient rated people on the police force? Why her partner hand her a couple of dangerous criminals to control with no apparent training on the subject? Why did they charge in without any actual plan? And that's not even scratching the surface.

Is expecting the first episode not to be riddled with logical absurdities and to establish a reasonable baseline for the world really too much to ask for? I mean, on top of that the script was piss-poor in how it handled any of its "themes" with about the subtlety of a sledge hammer (I mean really, there was no better way to introduce one of the obvious flaws of predictive crime stopping than having the target go off on a monologue about it?).

Anyway, whatever, you liked it, more power to you.

turn off the TV
Aug 4, 2010

moderately annoying

Good_Haro posted:

In that case why didn't she seem to know about the contagion factor of the criminal coefficient? Why didn't she know about the use of high-coefficient rated people on the police force? Why her partner hand her a couple of dangerous criminals to control with no apparent training on the subject? Why did they charge in without any actual plan? And that's not even scratching the surface.

There were a lot of times in the episode where she was like "well yeah, I do know this but.." and then someone else just explains it anyways for the benefit of the audience. That's basically bad exposition 101, but a shitload of anime seems to do this anyways. I have no idea how you can get into this medium and still be bothered by poor handling of infodumps this much.

But I dunno, whatever. Go watch Texhnolyze if you haven't because it seems like it's basically everything you're asking for.

Good_Haro
Mar 14, 2009

Noted shitposter.

Giggily posted:

There were a lot of times in the episode where she was like "well yeah, I do know this but.." and then someone else just explains it anyways for the benefit of the audience. That's basically bad exposition 101, but a shitload of anime seems to do this anyways. I have no idea how you can get into this medium and still be bothered by poor handling of infodumps this much.

But I dunno, whatever. Go watch Texhnolyze if you haven't because it seems like it's basically everything you're asking for.

I'm not really talking about the infodump excuse bullshit so much as how shocked Akane seems by the whole thing. Why would you even take this job if you knew that's what it entailed and objected to it so strongly?

I'm not asking for anything but the basic premise to not be riddled with holes.

Sarcophallus
Jun 12, 2011

by Lowtax

Good_Haro posted:

I'm not really talking about the infodump excuse bullshit so much as how shocked Akane seems by the whole thing. Why would you even take this job if you knew that's what it entailed and objected to it so strongly?

I'm not asking for anything but the basic premise to not be riddled with holes.

This was literally addressed in the series when she was told to forget everything she learned in school because the real world isn't anything like what she was taught.

She didn't know what the job entailed because it's not what she was taught.

Good_Haro
Mar 14, 2009

Noted shitposter.

Sarcophallus posted:

This was literally addressed in the series when she was told to forget everything she learned in school because the real world isn't anything like what she was taught.

She didn't know what the job entailed because it's not what she was taught.

How is that not retarded? Why would anyone do that?

Guyver
Dec 5, 2006

Sarcophallus posted:

This was literally addressed in the series when she was told to forget everything she learned in school because the real world isn't anything like what she was taught.
Have you seriously never watched a cop show/movie before?

Sarcophallus
Jun 12, 2011

by Lowtax

Guyver posted:

Have you seriously never watched a cop show/movie before?

Just because it's cliche doesn't mean I take offense to it.

And it's not as if it's unrealistic, either - at least anecdotally, anyone who's gone to college for engineering would've come into a, "All this poo poo I learned in college was worthless" moment. It's not exactly a huge suspension of disbelief that the things you learn to become a police officer aren't exactly what you get when you start the job.

coathat
May 21, 2007

Yeah that was about as generic and bad as you can possibly make a cyberpunk cop show.

Good_Haro
Mar 14, 2009

Noted shitposter.

Sarcophallus posted:

Just because it's cliche doesn't mean I take offense to it.

And it's not as if it's unrealistic, either - at least anecdotally, anyone who's gone to college for engineering would've come into a, "All this poo poo I learned in college was worthless" moment. It's not exactly a huge suspension of disbelief that the things you learn to become a police officer aren't exactly what you get when you start the job.

Not to speak for Guyver, but I think he was objecting to you taking that line so literally. Hiring someone without them not knowing any of the fundamental requirements and mechanics of their job seems like a pretty hosed up and counterproductive practice!

Sakurazuka
Jan 24, 2004

NANI?

Yeah, that was pretty stupid, also the girl's :shepface: face is still horrible and distracting.

Srice
Sep 11, 2011

The exposition with the guns was really stupid because the guns talk so drat much that anyone with half a brain would have figured it out, they didn't need to spend a few minutes beforehand talking about how they work!

The exchange was literally "Do you know how X works?" "Yes" "Ok, but let me explain it anyways (for the audience)". Out of all the lazy ways to give exposition, that is the laziest.

I know there's plenty of anime with awkward infodumps but there's also a lot of anime with writers that actually know what show, don't tell means!

But man, even if was temporary, being told to kill a woman who just got raped is on a level that makes the world of Judge Dredd look sane and reasonable.

The Black Stones
May 7, 2007

I POSTED WHAT NOW!?

Good_Haro posted:

So basically what I'm saying is it's poo poo.

Really? I mean, I enjoyed it but would agree that it's definitely not great. I just think that's there's way worse out there and right now at it's worst the show is just mediocre. poo poo? I think that's being a bit tough on it.

Prostilez
Feb 24, 2011

#DICKSUCKER
#SWAGGEDTILLIDYE
#BASEDLIVING
#OFWGKTADGAFLSLLBBFEFSH
#GAYTOTHEMAXIMUM
#THANKYOUBASEDGOD

The Black Stones posted:

Really? I mean, I enjoyed it but would agree that it's definitely not great. I just think that's there's way worse out there and right now at it's worst the show is just mediocre. poo poo? I think that's being a bit tough on it.

It's either the most groundbreaking thing or it's poo poo.

AzraelNewtype
Nov 9, 2004

「ブレストバーン!!」

The Black Stones posted:

Really? I mean, I enjoyed it but would agree that it's definitely not great. I just think that's there's way worse out there and right now at it's worst the show is just mediocre. poo poo? I think that's being a bit tough on it.

This reeks of Stockholm Syndrome. You've been so beaten down by bullshit anime with its brother love horse poo poo, its weird drool fetishes, or its sitting around eating cake and doing literally nothing, that when a show comes along with none of that you're happy. It doesn't matter whether the show has redeeming features of its own, it just doesn't do those things that put it straight into the refuse bin on premise alone.

A show with no redeeming features is poo poo, not mediocre. Not being the worst show ever made is not the same as having redeeming features.

The Black Stones
May 7, 2007

I POSTED WHAT NOW!?

AzraelNewtype posted:


A show with no redeeming features is poo poo, not mediocre. Not being the worst show ever made is not the same as having redeeming features.

That would be a great point if I completely agreed with the fact that it has no redeeming features, except I didn't and I don't. So yes, it seemed to me like she was being a bit hard on it but hey, she's perfectly free to feel that way, I really don't care about the show that much and certainly won't make any huge defence for it.

Guess I know where you stand on it though because I apparently have Stockholm syndrome just for not hating it!

Cough Drop The Beat
Jan 22, 2012

by Lowtax
Psycho-Pass is awful. Urobuchi strikes again. The dialog is tedious as hell and extremely dumb with endless exposition. Show us, don't tell us repeatedly. From the New World is a strong example of how to properly indicate to us, the viewers, about the world and its setup through actions, not words. It took me forever to get through the episode because I was bored to death by the trite exposition. I'm okay with exposition when it's interesting, funny, or otherwise entertaining, but this certainly wasn't.

As per Urobuchi's usual, it has gratuitous rape and graphic violence for no reason except to be dark and edgy. It even has the rape victim arrested in a very nonsensical melodramatic sequence by the Minority Report clone concept of predestined criminals by making it so the "Criminal Coefficient" is contagious. Really. The character designs are really generic pretty boys, except for the female lead who oddly looks like her face is deformed. This show is garbage.

Chief director Katsuyuki Motohiro's comments on the series explain why Psycho-Pass is so bad perfectly. Pretty funny. http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2012-10-11/psycho-pass-chief-director/word-moe-is-banned-among-staff

"He explained that they intended to counter the current anime trends." Well, they certainly didn't do that because they made a bad show!

"When asked if he would like to delve into live-action now that he worked with Motohiro, Urobuchi said that anime lets him make characters without considering how an actor might perform it. He noted that his father had done stage plays, so he would appreciate the importance of actors if he were to go into live-action." This is amazing because Urobuchi is saying he has no idea how to write human characters. Too hilarious and completely accurate!

Cough Drop The Beat fucked around with this message at 22:09 on Oct 11, 2012

AzraelNewtype
Nov 9, 2004

「ブレストバーン!!」

The Black Stones posted:

Guess I know where you stand on it though because I apparently have Stockholm syndrome just for not hating it!

No, I think you have Stockholm Syndrome for the way you chose to defend it. The other people who for some bizarre reason agree that it wasn't that bad but didn't try to justify it with "c'mon guys, there's totally worse stuff out there," aren't at all the same.

SALT CURES HAM
Jan 4, 2011
I haven't watched it yet, but it sounds like it's pretty typical Urobuchi, i.e. if I liked Madoka, Fate/zero and his VNs I'll probably dig this too. Does that sound about right?

The Black Stones
May 7, 2007

I POSTED WHAT NOW!?

AzraelNewtype posted:

No, I think you have Stockholm Syndrome for the way you chose to defend it. The other people who for some bizarre reason agree that it wasn't that bad but didn't try to justify it with "c'mon guys, there's totally worse stuff out there," aren't at all the same.

I wasn't even trying all that hard to defend it, sorry if it looked like I was. I wasn't indicating that because brother loving anime and boob shows exists that this has to be mediocre by sheer virtue. It's just that compared to shows like say, Muv Luv: Total Eclipse, which has just been loving terrible in pretty much every respect (animation, story, characters, ect) I'm just not seeing the total lack of anything redeemable compared to these other shows? It's one episode in and while it was clunky there's some things there that maybe could turn out good? Sure, could turn out to be poo poo, but I'm not seeing it from the first episode alone like so many apparently are.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

AzraelNewtype posted:

who for some bizarre reason agree that it wasn't that bad
Having different tastes and opinions than AzraelNewtype, LORD OF ALL ANIME: bizarre

MadRhetoric
Feb 18, 2011

I POSSESS QUESTIONABLE TASTE IN TOUHOU GAMES
Well that was quick. I was guessing it'd take three episodes before Goons started savaging each other over the show like rabid dogs.

tearshed
Mar 26, 2010

Leave it to me!
Well I dropped madoka after one episode because I thought it was gonna be ~magical girls~ crap, but picked it up later after everyone said it turned out alright.

Have some faith in the 3 episode test!

My Gimmick Name
Sep 11, 2004



Modaka had a pretty drab start, in so much I could hardly remember the first episode.

So far this has been a pretty grounded look at the future of the American justice system, so I'm in for a few more episodes.

Carnival47
Jul 21, 2004
I also recall the first episode of Fate/Zero being a one hour monologue explaining the Grail War. I'll pretend this episode was just a really long trailer or something.

jonjonaug
Mar 26, 2010

by Lowtax

WickedIcon posted:

I haven't watched it yet, but it sounds like it's pretty typical Urobuchi, i.e. if I liked Madoka, Fate/zero and his VNs I'll probably dig this too. Does that sound about right?

Just finished watching this myself and not quite.

I'd say if you enjoyed Kikokugai and/or Saya no Uta or all of Fate/Zero, there's a good chance you'll enjoy this. If you only liked Madoka Magica or just the Waver/Rider parts of Fate/Zero and disliked the rest of it (or only enjoyed it ironically), you might find this hard to enjoy. If you disliked all of those you might as well get out now, because there probably won't be anything for you here.

Good Things
Backgrounds and CGI look gorgeous. The cityscape reinforces the cyberpunk dystopia feeling very well.
Voice acting is good. Akira Ishida really seems to be enjoying this.
This is old-school Urobuchi in full force, it reminded me a lot more of Kikokugai than anything else he's written in the past seven or so years. This can also be a bad thing, if you're not a fan of very hammy, over the top action things.

Bad Things
Urobuchi has a tendency to frontload all of his exposition somewhere into the first two chapters of whatever he's doing. Usually he provides a cool hook to keep you around for that, but the opening action sequence didn't do a very good job of that (compare Kikokugai's opening fight scene followed by detailed explanations of cyber kung-fu and androids, Saya no Uta's best opening scene ever in anything followed by doctor appointments explaining things Fuminori should have already known, and Madoka's opening scene and the first witch barrier followed by most of episode 2 being explanations about things). Still, this wasn't anywhere near as exposition-y as the first chapter/episode of Fate/Zero, and that turned out just fine. If we're still into heavy exposition by the end of episode 3 or 4, I'll be worried though.

jonjonaug fucked around with this message at 00:03 on Oct 12, 2012

Good_Haro
Mar 14, 2009

Noted shitposter.

The Black Stones posted:

Really? I mean, I enjoyed it but would agree that it's definitely not great. I just think that's there's way worse out there and right now at it's worst the show is just mediocre. poo poo? I think that's being a bit tough on it.

Look, in my opinion, it's poo poo. I don't think I'm being too hard on it. In fact I feel like that might be letting it off too easy. Look, by the time I finished the episode, I was actually angry at how bad it was. The only elements I came away from it with a positive reaction were the background art and some of the voice acting--everything else was offensively terrible on a lot of levels.

If you didn't think it was that bad, great, you've got another show to watch and enjoy, do that. I don't really understand why negative opinions are held to such an excessively high standard. No one goes after the people who liked it, demanding an explanation or complaining that they're being too "generous."

I didn't like it and I think I articulated my distaste for it, if not particularly eloquently I think I was reasonably thorough to justify why I used such an "extreme" descriptor.

OnimaruXLR
Sep 15, 2007
Lurklurklurklurklurk
I have to say this first episode did a much better job of representing that "Gen Urobuchi is a monster" joke than either Madoka or F;Z did in their entirety: poo poo was pretty grim all over, and none of it seemed to be the fault of the characters involved, other than maybe the crazy criminal guy.

Which is part of why police-girl comes across as such a drat incongruous character. She's supposed to be the viewer surrogate, sure, but she seems a little too ignorant about how things work to be believable. A bit of "here's the sunny side of this society" would've made her easier to swallow. As it stands, this is taking the "out of their depth rookie" cliche to some craaazy extremes.

I dunno. Was better than the most of the new poo poo this season. We'll see if it can't get it's act together.

paragon1
Nov 22, 2010

FULL COMMUNISM NOW
From the way the protagonist was acting, you'd think she'd been in training for a building inspectors job or something, and was assigned to her current job by accident. Just a deer caught in the headlights all the way through.

Is it too much to ask for Miss "Graduated at the Top of Her Class" to be competent and confident at the job she's been training for? Apparently so.


MadRhetoric posted:

Well that was quick. I was guessing it'd take three episodes before Goons started savaging each other over the show like rabid dogs.

It's Urobuchi, there's nothing we can do.

Paracelsus
Apr 6, 2009

bless this post ~kya

Good_Haro posted:

Look, by the time I finished the episode, I was actually angry at how bad it was.

I really don't get how it could produce that intense of an emotional reaction. Yes, it was a little heavy on "As you know, Bob" exposition, but there's an actual concept it's going after, it did a decent job of setting up some issues surrounding the concept, and the production values are good. I'm not a huge fan of the way the female lead is drawn, and her superior felt a bit cookie-cutter, but those aren't really huge issues. It's just nice that there's a series with a good budget, ideas beyond "boobs, explosions, and exploding boobs" behind it, and is likely to have the discipline to not go off the loving rails like Guilty Crown.

Good_Haro
Mar 14, 2009

Noted shitposter.

Paracelsus posted:

there's an actual concept it's going after, it did a decent job of setting up some issues surrounding the concept

See, this is where I would strongly disagree, and why it angered me. The concept is interesting, but the execution of it is so full of holes it's practically incoherent (if you care to know the details, read my previous posts) and I found the poor quality of the script to be just plain insulting.

But again, that's just my opinion!

Federal Preserves
Jun 30, 2011

Or is it right?
After reading the thread and watching the first episode for myself, I gotta say that the setting and concept are definitely at least worth a three-episode test, but the characters are totally uninteresting and seemingly copy-pasted from other material. This is the only gripe that I could find though, in all honesty, looking at just the first episode.

If you're a fan of character driven work, I don't think this is your cup o' tea. On the flipside, I'm willing to give the main character's complete lack of field skill some leniency because it allows room for growth, and from her mentioning she wrote a thesis on crime-coefficient contagiousness, I'm assuming she's just your typical bookworm idealist whose ethics and morality will clash with the grim reality of things, which will come down to your typical conflict between security vs. liberty.

So it should be fun to see how Urobuchi runs with that (straight into the ground, perhaps).

Cough Drop The Beat
Jan 22, 2012

by Lowtax

Paracelsus posted:

Yes, it was a little heavy on "As you know, Bob" exposition, but there's an actual concept it's going after, it did a decent job of setting up some issues surrounding the concept

I agree the initial premise is decent enough, but that's where it ends. None of the questions or issues the first episode posed were particularly compelling and they seemed to be setting up "destiny" as the soap opera-style theme. Much of it seemed very sloppy and haphazard with the pointless edgy violence and rape attempting to distract viewers from the logic problems. The execution is terrible, mostly stemming from the silliness of the magical AI guns and the random nonsensical aspects of the system surrounding them. Too much of it required ridiculous suspension of disbelief. I can't forget the sophmoric dialog which made me roll my eyes too many times.

It's common for Urobuchi to think up concepts with potential and then fumble the execution, so I expected this.

Cough Drop The Beat fucked around with this message at 05:41 on Oct 12, 2012

SALT CURES HAM
Jan 4, 2011

jonjonaug posted:

Just finished watching this myself and not quite.

I'd say if you enjoyed Kikokugai and/or Saya no Uta or all of Fate/Zero, there's a good chance you'll enjoy this. If you only liked Madoka Magica or just the Waver/Rider parts of Fate/Zero and disliked the rest of it (or only enjoyed it ironically), you might find this hard to enjoy. If you disliked all of those you might as well get out now, because there probably won't be anything for you here.

Well, I loved Kikokugai (look at the first post I made in this thread ffs) and the erection Fate/zero gave me knew no bounds, so yeah, I'll probably dig this then. Thanks! :)

e: Just watched the first episode. This is a little rough, but honestly it's got a poo poo-ton of potential.

Does anyone else get major Dredd vibes from this? Not Judge Dredd as a whole, but specifically the movie from this year. Tsunemori and Kogami basically strike me as being bizarro Anderson and Dredd, and a lot of the visuals and music were pretty much lifted straight from that movie.

Also jesus gently caress, is the massive hateboner everyone has for Urobuchi serious or is it just anime pseudo-hipsterism since most of what he's done is so universally beloved? He honestly hasn't done a single thing that I haven't loving loved, and the only thing where I can actually articulate a reason why anyone would dislike it is Fate/zero, which I thought was a little exposition-heavy and slow at times.

SALT CURES HAM fucked around with this message at 07:05 on Oct 12, 2012

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SpazmasterX
Jul 13, 2006

Wrong about everything XIV related
~fartz~
Watched the first episode. It wasn't bad, but wasn't great either. The violence quotient is pretty hilarious. I'm certainly more interested in this then I ever was in Madoka.

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