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redreader posted:Hm, but I haven't fed it since like, friday night. Shouldn't matter unless it's top to bottom mold.
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# ? Feb 16, 2021 02:21 |
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# ? Mar 28, 2024 10:43 |
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redreader posted:Hm, but I haven't fed it since like, friday night. We only have sourdough because people kept forgetting about that drat grain paste and kept moving on with the project, anyway. Forgetting about the culture is just one step in a long line of other people forgetting about it. It may be a little chilly, but it's always been a little chilly somewhere and people still made bread, even after neglecting the starter. Keep at it. Eventually it'll get there.
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# ? Feb 16, 2021 04:18 |
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again, the internet has propped up a bunch of terrible information about sourdough. as mentioned, they're generally a lot more robust than people give them credit for. i mean, you can buy powdered sourdough starter from stores...it's not like it's been fed recently. if it's not full of mould, you can basically always eventually revive one. with that said: you can cheat a sourdough starter and get pretty much identical flavour from the get-go by starting your starter with a pinch of commercial yeast and the whey from a high-quality yogurt, especially greek (since you tend to have a tighter structure and the whey is easier to pull off). by the next day you'll usually have something that gets you a sour flavour. plus, since you've inoculated it in the beginning, you generally never have to worry about that weird in-between period that sometimes results in spoilage.
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# ? Feb 16, 2021 04:25 |
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My starter didn’t catch until like day 11, which included probably around a week of feeding every 12 hours. And funny enough, it finally took off once I fell into a “eh gently caress this poo poo” mentality and started neglecting it and only feeding once every day or two. So I say yeah, keep it up and don’t worry about neglecting it for a day or two here and there.
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# ? Feb 16, 2021 04:47 |
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redreader posted:I think I've given up on my sourdough starter. Forgot to feed it around day 8 and it hadn't bubbled much since day 3 when people told me 'it'll die down'. I put in a date at day 9 too, fed it until day 12 or so then abandoned it. The most essential factor in my opinion is the temperature. You want about 28-32° C ideally to get the most yeast and lactic acid activity in your starter. I always refresh my starter in the oven with the lights on and a wooden spatula in the door. My oven creates a temperature of 29-30° C this way, depending on the size of gap I leave in the door. If you haven't tried this yet and your oven can do this (i.e. it has a non-LED light) I would highly recommend doing it. Don't give up on sourdough, it's so much better and more satisfying than anything you can buy. Once you get the hang of it it just clicks and maintaining the starter becomes very easy. You maybe should also post a picture of your starter, maybe we can spot something immediately that looks wrong.
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# ? Feb 16, 2021 08:16 |
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With sourdough it's almost always the temperature. I'd never try to make a starter in winter. Just have another go in May or June imo.
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# ? Feb 16, 2021 11:21 |
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Stringent posted:With sourdough it's almost always the temperature. I'd never try to make a starter in winter. Just have another go in May or June imo. Come on, just above you is a post how to ensure the correct temperature with equipment almost everyone in this thread should have... If my recommendation doesn't work for redreader there are different other ways to do it. E.g. warm water bottles in a closed box. Waiting for warmer weather is definitely not necessary. Furthermore ensuring correct temperature for refreshing the starter or making a leaven is always important, not just when starting out.
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# ? Feb 16, 2021 12:40 |
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Yeah I mean if the OP wants to go through it they're welcome do, but if it was me I'd just wait three months or so.Malefitz posted:Furthermore ensuring correct temperature for refreshing the starter or making a leaven is always important, not just when starting out. I agree, that's why I mostly just use dry yeast in the winter and switch to sour dough when it gets warmer.
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# ? Feb 16, 2021 12:48 |
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I don’t know what “go through it” really means. It’s just turning an oven light on. I live in a drafty 100 year old brick house in Boston and I’m able to bake sourdough bread. I even got my starter going in the winter. If you want to be certain you can also go with the tiny amount of yeast and yogurt method that was posted. You won’t have to wait 10 days and in a few weeks it will be exactly the same as every other starter.
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# ? Feb 16, 2021 13:30 |
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Re: overlight. Both my ovens turn off the light after some time. The one has a 30C setting that I tried growing the levain in but eventually I just gave everything time. And I am still not sure if this will work but I put the starter in the fridge and we'll see Thursday how it went.
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# ? Feb 16, 2021 13:51 |
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you’ll culture a different set of microbes with a lower temp (and these will change as your kitchen warms up) but you don’t need to do anything in winter imo except wait (you can even, given long enough, develop starters in the fridge). but worse comes to worst your microwave or oven will be pretty warm for a while if you want just by putting a bowl of boiling water in it (if the light suggestion doesn’t work out).
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# ? Feb 16, 2021 13:59 |
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neighbour came over and plowed my our driveway with his snowblower when i took a break so i baked them some cinnamon rolls. tangzhong, baybee.
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# ? Feb 17, 2021 02:29 |
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For sure my starter had mould in it (should I have scraped the mould off and used that as the base for a feeding? or is mould a big issue?) so I threw it away yesterday. It had gone for like 4 days without feeding and it was pretty cold. I think I will do this when it's warmer, the house gets really warm in a couple of months and I just used the rest of my all-purpose for no-knead bread again. Put in a big king arthur order for lots of stuff including potato flakes, a pullman pan, TONS of all-purpose, and a bunch of other cool poo poo.
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# ? Feb 17, 2021 07:57 |
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redreader posted:For sure my starter had mould in it (should I have scraped the mould off and used that as the base for a feeding? or is mould a big issue?) so I threw it away yesterday. It had gone for like 4 days without feeding and it was pretty cold. I think I will do this when it's warmer, the house gets really warm in a couple of months and I just used the rest of my all-purpose for no-knead bread again. Put in a big king arthur order for lots of stuff including potato flakes, a pullman pan, TONS of all-purpose, and a bunch of other cool poo poo. Yeah mould is the death sentence for a starter. Sorry it didn't work out for you. Once you have a healthy starter mould will have a hard time settling in. I had a glas of old starter I didn't do anything with and it got mouldy after more than 4 weeks. But once mould starts to grow you need to throw it away.
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# ? Feb 17, 2021 08:45 |
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tonight’s lean pullman
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# ? Feb 18, 2021 02:39 |
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Starter can survive mold if you're able to scrape it off and have some untouched underneath. But if you were on the struggle bus with this thing from the jump, yeah, maybe better to wait.
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# ? Feb 18, 2021 02:44 |
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Chad Sexington posted:Starter can survive mold if you're able to scrape it off and have some untouched underneath. But if you were on the struggle bus with this thing from the jump, yeah, maybe better to wait. one issue with doing that, though, is that mould can leave behind some pretty gnarly compounds, and there’s no telling. plus, untouched will be difficult to determine given how mould propagates and the fact that starter is basically soup. obviously it’s unlikely to be much of an issue, especially in the case of something you’ll be constantly diluting, but it’s really not worth keeping mouldy starter.
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# ? Feb 18, 2021 03:29 |
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So I made the sourdough toutons for breakfast this morning as I was making my loaf anyway. Turned out great, though ate them as muffins with eggs and bacon. When you have chickens every day you don't eat eggs is a problem. The loaf I was making, nothing exciting just a plain loaf.
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# ? Feb 18, 2021 12:59 |
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Aramoro posted:So I made the sourdough toutons for breakfast this morning as I was making my loaf anyway. excellent breads.
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# ? Feb 18, 2021 13:21 |
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So I tried making the dinner rolls again. They're in the oven now. This time went a lot smoother, and I think it's because I've been bringing the hydration level of my starter down since last time. this is the recipe I'm using. I know it says no knead, but if I don't knead in some way, they're just shaggy loose lumps of dough that don't hold any sort of shape. So instead, I did the folding technique shown here, twice(fold, pat down flat-ish, fold again), and then shape the rolls as shown in the vid. It seemed to work out ok, and we'll see how the rolls turn out once they're done baking, but I'm wondering if two folds was enough, or if I should do more? Or should I do something entirely different? After the 2nd rise, the rolls were still a bit flat, but they're in the oven now, so I guess we'll see how they turn out once they're done. EDIT: Trip report. I forgot to note above, I had a small pot of water boiling away in the oven while the rolls baked. Here's a couple quick pics: So, pros: The rolls came out with a super loving crispy crust, while the bread was soft and chewy. Taste was really good, nice sourdough tang. Definitely better than last time I tried making them. They came out about the size of the palm of my hand, which is fine. Cons: It's a bit hard to see in the one pic, but there's basically no expansion of the bread inside the cut I made just before baking. I did notice some cracking and expansion along the edges where the dough met the parchment paper. I'm not sure why that is or how to fix it, or even if it *should* be fixed. They also had a very golden, matte, soft finish on the crust, but I kind of envy those super-brown, shiny crusts you guys always seem to get. Also, they turned out a bit taller than last time, but are still overall flattened out. Is there a way to make them taller and rounder? Do I just need to fold more? Where can I go to start improving this recipe from here? neogeo0823 fucked around with this message at 00:39 on Feb 19, 2021 |
# ? Feb 18, 2021 23:52 |
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a couple of things come to mind. if they consistently fail, add a pinch of yeast. it'll be fine. when you say you had a pot of water boiling away, how big? you really want to have an empty pan in the oven that's preheated, dump in some already-boiling water into the pan when you add your bread, shut the door, and repeat it a minute or two later. you don't want to have a bunch of water boiling away in there; it should all be converted to steam in a minute or two. if you have it boiling the whole time, all you're doing is sucking heat out of your oven to boil the water. also, how long are you proofing them between shaping and baking? if you have a slow starter you may need to give it longer, though the glossy nature of your crumb makes me think you wouldn't necessarily want to ferment them much more.
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# ? Feb 19, 2021 04:20 |
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mediaphage posted:a couple of things come to mind. if they consistently fail, add a pinch of yeast. it'll be fine. I put a medium sized stainless steel pot into the oven when I preheated it, boiled about a cup and a half of water and added it to the pot right when the bread went in. I didn't add more, and there was still a bit of water in the pot when the rolls came out. I can add less water next time. As far as the second proof, 2 hours as per the recipe. Our apartment is cold, so I set the oven to it's lowest temperature, let it go till it get to around 90F measured with a probe thermometer, then put the rolls in there and let them sit. If the oven got to 70F, I turned on the heat again until the temperature started to rise and then immediately shut it off. I did that twice during proofing, and the oven stayed between 70F and 90F the whole time. The starter has been out of the fridge and getting fed daily. The rolls definitely have the sourdough funk, in a good way, but yeah, I wouldn't want to let them go much deeper into that flavor, either.
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# ? Feb 19, 2021 05:22 |
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neogeo0823 posted:So I tried making the dinner rolls again. They're in the oven now. This time went a lot smoother, and I think it's because I've been bringing the hydration level of my starter down since last time. this is the recipe I'm using. I know it says no knead, but if I don't knead in some way, they're just shaggy loose lumps of dough that don't hold any sort of shape. So instead, I did the folding technique shown here, twice(fold, pat down flat-ish, fold again), and then shape the rolls as shown in the vid. It seemed to work out ok, and we'll see how the rolls turn out once they're done baking, but I'm wondering if two folds was enough, or if I should do more? Or should I do something entirely different? After the 2nd rise, the rolls were still a bit flat, but they're in the oven now, so I guess we'll see how they turn out once they're done. A problem like that could be to do with the shaping of the roll sometimes. I see you followed the perfect loaf guide, which is good. I'd maybe just try it again, also make sure your dough hasn't over-fermented in the bulk fermentation phase.
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# ? Feb 19, 2021 11:39 |
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mediaphage posted:you really want to have an empty pan in the oven that's preheated, dump in some already-boiling water into the pan when you add your bread, shut the door, and repeat it a minute or two later. you don't want to have a bunch of water boiling away in there; it should all be converted to steam in a minute or two. I agree putting in a pot of boiling water is counter productive, you need something inside that's already preheated and then pour water on it. This is what I use for steam generation now. A metal form filled with steel BBs. I let it preheat in the oven and use a syringe to spray 60ml of water on it. The high surface area of the hot BBs instantly vaporizes all the water. Of course a metal pan also works and can be used for other stuff, too. I would be worried for deformations or cracks caused by the rapid change of temperature though.
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# ? Feb 19, 2021 13:00 |
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So I want to get into baking bread, I've tried in the past and been poo poo at it, but I had some success with tortillas recently and I think I'm ready to try again. (Turns out you actually do need to knead for the amount of time they tell you!) I was planning on using a poolish, my big question is regarding baking the thing. My dutch oven is TINY especially in the vertical sense. Would I be better off baking on a sheet or making very small loaves? There's only two of us, so small loaves aren't a huge problem, as I'm pretty sure I can keep the extra dough in the fridge so long as I do it at the right stage.
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# ? Feb 20, 2021 06:50 |
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Guildenstern Mother posted:So I want to get into baking bread, I've tried in the past and been poo poo at it, but I had some success with tortillas recently and I think I'm ready to try again. (Turns out you actually do need to knead for the amount of time they tell you!) I was planning on using a poolish, my big question is regarding baking the thing. My dutch oven is TINY especially in the vertical sense. Would I be better off baking on a sheet or making very small loaves? There's only two of us, so small loaves aren't a huge problem, as I'm pretty sure I can keep the extra dough in the fridge so long as I do it at the right stage.
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# ? Feb 20, 2021 06:54 |
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Gotcha, thank you! All the tutorials I've been watching are really big on the dutch oven thing and my oven's kind of lovely, but I probably have a long way to go before I can start blaming the oven for my bread failures.
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# ? Feb 20, 2021 07:31 |
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If you list the equipment you have, we can maybe guide you in the right direction. I haven’t been without a mixer for years, but if I were, I would totally autolyse like a madman.
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# ? Feb 20, 2021 14:40 |
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My latest bread looked fine from the outside, but contained a gigantic hole in the middle. Not sure what I did wrong, probably somehow produced a bubble when forming the boule.
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# ? Feb 20, 2021 15:15 |
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bolind posted:If you list the equipment you have, we can maybe guide you in the right direction. A very laid back, patient madman and even then, I have a mixer and like a slow ferment bread much more than a kneaded one.
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# ? Feb 20, 2021 17:23 |
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Barbelith posted:My latest bread looked fine from the outside, but contained a gigantic hole in the middle. Not sure what I did wrong, probably somehow produced a bubble when forming the boule. I'd say you need more pressure when forming the final loaf. Forming rye dough is difficult because it doesn't have the gluten structure wheat dough has. You need to use lots of flour and be quick so it doesn't get soaked. I had a hole like this once too and it happened when I didn't shape the very densely before the final proof (on purpose). Also how much time do you let bulk ferment and final proof? Oh and how much water do you use?
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# ? Feb 20, 2021 19:43 |
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I’ve been making sandwich loaves and they all have you proof the dough in a bowl before shaping it into a loaf (in a pan) and letting it proof some more before baking. Is there any reason why I couldn’t save time(*) by shaping it into a loaf and putting it into the pan immediately after making the dough? (*) I know I wouldn’t save any time cause it still needs to rise to the same volume but let’s say it takes 1 hour to proof in the bowl and then 1 more hour to proof in the pan. Being able to set the timer for 2 hours and having 2 hours to do other stuff feels better/easier than going in after 1 hour to shape it and then wash the bowl and countertops and then coming back 1 hour later to preheat the oven. E: And if it’s actually needed to proof it first in a bowl, is there any reason why I can’t just proof it in the stand mixer bowl so I have one less thing to wash later? It’s hard to get plastic foil over it to seal but my plates cover it up just fine. E2: Is “bulk fermentation” when you proof it in a bowl and final proofing when I shape it into the loaf and put it in the pan? E3: Been doing this classic white sandwich bread scaled roughly to 500g flour and whole number %s for the other ingredients cause asking for 482g of flour or 284g of water is odd (eg just changed it to 500g flour and 290g water (58%)). Is there a similar white sandwich bread recipe that doesn’t use honey or that milk powder (or milk)? These are just two things I don’t really have on hand cause I don’t eat/drink them. Boris Galerkin fucked around with this message at 20:10 on Feb 20, 2021 |
# ? Feb 20, 2021 20:00 |
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Malefitz posted:I'd say you need more pressure when forming the final loaf. Forming rye dough is difficult because it doesn't have the gluten structure wheat dough has. You need to use lots of flour and be quick so it doesn't get soaked. Hm, I deliberately didn't use a lot of pressure when forming the loaf, because the recipe said to be careful not to let too much of the gas escape. I used 1 kg of flour (200 g rye, and about 400 spelt and whole grain spelt each), with 650 g water and 60 g levain. 3 hours at room temp (stretched and folded each hour) and 14 hours in the fridge, then 3 hours final proofing at room temp.
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# ? Feb 20, 2021 20:20 |
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Boris Galerkin posted:I’ve been making sandwich loaves and they all have you proof the dough in a bowl before shaping it into a loaf (in a pan) and letting it proof some more before baking. Is there any reason why I couldn’t save time(*) by shaping it into a loaf and putting it into the pan immediately after making the dough? The English terminology seems to be bulk fermentation and final proofing, yes. I learned that if you shift the time to a longer bulk fermentation and shorter final proofing you get a more irregular crumb with big bubbles, so a more rustic look. A shorter bulk fermentation and longer final proof on the other hand gives you a more uniform bubbled bread, so it will look "cleaner". I suspect if you just do the final proofing already shaped the dough might lose its shape over the relatively long proofing time. It might not be that much of an issue though. You would get the very irregular crumb though. And yes you can let it proof in the mixer bowl, I also do that.
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# ? Feb 20, 2021 20:20 |
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Barbelith posted:Hm, I deliberately didn't use a lot of pressure when forming the loaf, because the recipe said to be careful not to let too much of the gas escape. Oh so it's only 20% rye, got it. Then the shaping shouldn't be that much of an issue. I guess you can use a bit more pressure when forming the loaf and you should be good. You can cup your hand and just hit/press the dough a bit after each fold. You won't ruin it that easily, there is quite the margin between having a gaping hole in your bread and having a ruined crumb. Chances are if you overdo it, i.e. let "too much air escape", you will just get a bit more uniform crumb but taste won't change...it might even raise more!
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# ? Feb 20, 2021 20:28 |
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15% Khorasan loaf
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# ? Feb 20, 2021 23:57 |
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Boris Galerkin posted:I’ve been making sandwich loaves and they all have you proof the dough in a bowl before shaping it into a loaf (in a pan) and letting it proof some more before baking. Is there any reason why I couldn’t save time(*) by shaping it into a loaf and putting it into the pan immediately after making the dough? I think if you went straight from mixing to a final proofing you would use less time (as in the time from mixing to fully risen bread would be shorter). Shaping prior to proofing can knock out a lot of the gas so you're basically starting over again in terms of gas bubbles/leavening when you do the bulk fermentation->shape->proof. Or at least the way I do it it's like that. And there's no good reason to not use your stand mixer bowl, that's totally fine IMO. You can cover it with a damp towel or a well-fitting plate/lid. A damp towel will of course cool the dough though so be wary of that. I'm not 100% sure on the reason for a separate bulk fermentation, but it may be that the yeast is more active after the bulk fermentation, so by doing a second rising period you're getting the dough at a maximally active state and will get a better oven spring. I remember reading this a while ago, but I of course can't google it since I can't summon the right combination of words to get it. About all I found was some random web 1.0 site with a reference to an old book and a plot showing this effect where yeast produce a lot of gas during the first hour, then supposedly run out of easily digestible sugars and slow down gas production, then resume again after a brief pause. But I can't find an actually good reference so that may be bullshit.
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# ? Feb 21, 2021 04:37 |
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What is the threads go to shokupan/milk bread recipe? I've never used a tangzhong before and want to give it a shot.
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# ? Feb 21, 2021 04:37 |
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dominator posted:What is the threads go to shokupan/milk bread recipe? I've never used a tangzhong before and want to give it a shot. I recently made this one and it was simple and tasted delicious and fluffy. https://www.kingarthurbaking.com/recipes/japanese-milk-bread-recipe Although, I’d probably just replace the water with milk in the tangzhong if I were to make it again. I dunno, I made another recipe that used only milk and flour for the tangzhong and I thought it cooked faster/easier. I think someone said I could just skip the milk powder as well since there’s already milk.
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# ? Feb 21, 2021 05:21 |
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# ? Mar 28, 2024 10:43 |
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dominator posted:What is the threads go to shokupan/milk bread recipe? I've never used a tangzhong before and want to give it a shot. I've been meaning to try this recipe from Woks of Life: https://thewoksoflife.com/milk-bread-2/ They don't use tangzhong at all, which intrigues me. But I haven't tried it yet, so no guarantees. Any tips on freezing bread? I usually make two sourdough loaves at the same time for convenience, and would like to freeze one of them. Slice it before feezing? Paper bag, plastic bag?
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# ? Feb 21, 2021 10:28 |