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therattle
Jul 24, 2007

I'm a family man - I run a family business. This is my son and my partner, H.W.


Soiled Meat

Hawkgirl posted:

Okay, neat. I'm trying to make this recipe a little chewier: http://www.kingarthurflour.com/reci...ch-bread-recipe so I suppose I'll have to decide between adding more milk, or more water. I was trying to find a recipe that just plain used bread flour, but I suppose that isn't done very often with white sandwich bread. I just kind of want the texture of good sourdough except I don't have any starter yet.

I find that no-knead comes much closer to sourdough than many kneaded breads (unless you are using very long ferments etc) .

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Spikes32
Jul 25, 2013


The Doctor posted:

Sounds weird! I have never experienced having my crust collapse. Post your recipe? Maybe it has something to do with being cooked in a dutch oven? I honestly have no idea but maybe what happens is that because you bake your bread with a lot of steam, it ends up under the crust, and then as you cool the loaf, the steam escapes, which leaves a hollow underneath, and simultaneously softens your crust, allowing it to collapse.

I don't really have a recipe :/ haha. I started off with http://mybizzykitchen.com/2010/03/01/best-bread-ever/ this recipe, basically never add the beer and just substitute in water instead. But I also don't really measure anything anymore, just throw in the ingredients and then add flour till its the right consistency after kneading in my kitchen aid, adding more or less yeast depending on how much time I have to let it rise.

Romeo Charlie
Sep 7, 2012

Hanson: It's Time

Grimey Drawer

Hawkgirl posted:

Okay, neat. I'm trying to make this recipe a little chewier: http://www.kingarthurflour.com/reci...ch-bread-recipe so I suppose I'll have to decide between adding more milk, or more water. I was trying to find a recipe that just plain used bread flour, but I suppose that isn't done very often with white sandwich bread. I just kind of want the texture of good sourdough except I don't have any starter yet.
If you want chewier bread then you'll really want to let it ferment after you've mixed the dough. A bread that you're wanting to make sounds like a Pane Di Casa bread. Here's the recipe;

100% White Flour
2% Salt
0.2% Yeast
1% Vegetable Oil (optional)
59% Water

Mix the dough until it's fully developed in the bowl. Once mixed you will need a container that has plenty of space for the dough to ferment in. The fermentation only takes a minimum of 8 hours to a maximum of 12 hours. Once fermentation is finish you can start cutting the dough into pieces and/or start molding the dough, depending how much you make. The best shape is a Vienna shape but you can be creative with this part. Final proofing time is about 1 hour. Temperature for baking would be 410F for 30 minutes.

Kilazar
Mar 23, 2010


Would someone with Archives be able to PM me the OP of the no Kneed thread? I forgot to write this all down last time I used it, and would like to make some easy bread this week

SlayVus
Jul 10, 2009


Grimey Drawer

Kilazar posted:

Would someone with Archives be able to PM me the OP of the no Kneed thread? I forgot to write this all down last time I used it, and would like to make some easy bread this week

Sent.

Kilazar
Mar 23, 2010



Thank you very much!

therattle
Jul 24, 2007

I'm a family man - I run a family business. This is my son and my partner, H.W.


Soiled Meat

Kilazar posted:

Would someone with Archives be able to PM me the OP of the no Kneed thread? I forgot to write this all down last time I used it, and would like to make some easy bread this week

I'm pretty sure it's on the first post of this thread.

kirtar
Sep 11, 2011


therattle posted:

I'm pretty sure it's on the first post of this thread.

It doesn't matter if the link is there if it's archived. Without the archives upgrade you wouldn't have access to it.

Bob Morales
Aug 18, 2006

This post is good to go


Romeo Charlie posted:

My grandmother would disagree with you. She's been keeping her bread in the refrigerator for as long as I've known (20+ years). Never noticed any difference in taste once the slices of bread has come to room temperature.
You get spots in the bread where moisture collects. I have a huge argument with my mother about this every time I eat bread at her house, she says you can't tell but I can.

therattle
Jul 24, 2007

I'm a family man - I run a family business. This is my son and my partner, H.W.


Soiled Meat

Kilazar posted:

Would someone with Archives be able to PM me the OP of the no Kneed thread? I forgot to write this all down last time I used it, and would like to make some easy bread this week

Here's an email I wrote recently which might help.

500g strong (bread) flour (often 50% white, 50% wholemeal or spelt – spelt and wholemeal reduce the rise to make a denser but more flavourful bread – moister too)
1/4 tsp instant yeast (from sachet or small bag from Dove's Farm)
1 tsp salt (you could probably get away with 1/2 tsp)
330ml water (warm a bit if the weather is cold. use a bit more when using wholemeal flour. Use just enough to make the dough come together, as it loosens as it ferments).
If I want to add seeds (sunflower, sesame and/or flax/linseed) then I do it in this initial mix. You can also add a bit of sugar, oil, butter, honey, malt extract, etc - whatever takes your fancy!

Mix dry ingredients. Add water and mix. Cover with oiled cling film and leave in a warm (not hot) place for ±12-16 hours. it doesn't need to be too precise. It can go longer if the temp is cool.

I then fold the dough a few times in the bowl before placing the dough onto a floured surface. Dust top with flour (so it is grippable all over), shape (by going around the dough and pulling from the bottom round to the top to create surface tension on the bottom, then turning over so the seam is on the bottom), and leave to warm and rise for at least 1 hour before baking. When you prod the dough with your finger it should return to form slowly. if it springs back it still needs to proof a bit longer.

You can use a Dutch oven/ casserole, large spring-form baking tin, or silicon baking sheet on baking tray. I flour the bottom well to prevent sticking, and oil and flour the sides (where applicable). Other people have no problem getting their bread out of Corning or Le Creuset containers; I have. If using a casserole-type container heat it beforehand

I slash the top with a very sharp serrated knife before baking. I usually include a bowl of water in the oven (with the oven on normal, not fan, to keep moisture in) – this makes a crispy crust. It goes in at 230C for 35-40 minutes. When the base is tapped and sounds hollow, it is done. Allow to cool for at least 30 mins before cutting.

It sounds complicated but if you start with the basic recipe (mix ingredients, wait, shape, throw in oven, eat) it is really easy – and one can then elaborate from there.

When I buy supermarket-type bread now it tastes like cardboard.

Thumposaurus
Jul 24, 2007



Random stuff from work last night

Croissant dough

Laminating in process

After final turn 1 poke=first turn, 2 pokes=second turn, 3 pokes=third turn.

Finished laminated croissant dough


Bagels

Sourdough English muffins

Croissants

NightConqueror
Oct 5, 2006
im in ur base killin ur mans

Thumposaurus posted:


Bagels

Sourdough English muffins

Croissants

Heck yeah, 10/10 would eat.

Most of my at-home baking focuses around lean, hearth breads. I haven't really branched out into highly enriched doughs so much, but those crossants make me want to.

iajanus
Aug 17, 2004

#GOAT


Thumposaurus posted:




Bagels

Sourdough English muffins

Croissants

Unbelievably jealous. Drooling all over the keyboard. Very impressive.

Hawkgirl
Jun 20, 2003

Jesus Died for Your Songs

therattle posted:

I find that no-knead comes much closer to sourdough than many kneaded breads (unless you are using very long ferments etc) .

I saw your reply first so I whipped up a batch on Sunday and baked it today. Yep, that's what I was looking for. It's really delicious. Thanks!

amishjosh
Jul 16, 2004
Yeah

Thumposaurus posted:

Random stuff from work last night


Bagels

Sourdough English muffins

Croissants

Holy poo poo that looks good.

therattle
Jul 24, 2007

I'm a family man - I run a family business. This is my son and my partner, H.W.


Soiled Meat

Hawkgirl posted:

I saw your reply first so I whipped up a batch on Sunday and baked it today. Yep, that's what I was looking for. It's really delicious. Thanks!

Hurrah! That gladdens me.

Is there a way of having a good sourdough starter that isn't too sour, but doesn't require daily feeding?

FishBulb
Mar 29, 2003

Marge, I'd like to be alone with the sandwich for a moment.

Are you going to eat it?

...yes...


I used to keep mine in the fridge and feed it like once a week.

Marta Velasquez
Mar 9, 2013

Good thing I was feeling suicidal this morning...


Fallen Rib

My fiancée mentioned at work that I make bread at home. This concept blows people's minds. Now, I have to make six loaves because everyone wants one.

I've make a dough and cut it into two smaller loaves before. I like their size for this, so I'd like to triple the recipe. Are there any "gotchas" to making a larger dough?

For reference, I plan on making the ciabatta version of this recipe. I also add about a teaspoon of dried rosemary normally, so I'll use a tablespoon or so this time.

therattle
Jul 24, 2007

I'm a family man - I run a family business. This is my son and my partner, H.W.


Soiled Meat

FishBulb posted:

I used to keep mine in the fridge and feed it like once a week.

Thanks. I've tried that and it's been quite sour. Any tips? How do you build it prior to baking?

ChetReckless
Sep 16, 2009

That is precisely the thing to do, Avatar.


Seeing those pictures makes me want to try to make bagels for the first time. I was planning on using Peter Reinhart's recipe from Bread Baker's Apprentice. Anyone have any advice for a first timer?

I try to avoid buying bagels because I want to eat healthier breakfasts but there really isn't anything quite like a good, chewy bagel. Maybe I can justify them everyone once in a while if I at least put the effort in to making them myself.

amishjosh
Jul 16, 2004
Yeah

ChetReckless posted:

Seeing those pictures makes me want to try to make bagels for the first time. I was planning on using Peter Reinhart's recipe from Bread Baker's Apprentice. Anyone have any advice for a first timer?

I try to avoid buying bagels because I want to eat healthier breakfasts but there really isn't anything quite like a good, chewy bagel. Maybe I can justify them everyone once in a while if I at least put the effort in to making them myself.

I made them for the first time a month or so ago using the recipe from Bread Bakers Apprentice. Initially working all the flour into the dough was a bit of a pain, but once it got incorporated it was reasonably easy to work with. Honey got added since I didn't have any of the malt syrup or whatever it was that it had in the recipe. I did mine with the 1minute/flip/1minute in the boiling water with baking soda, and I think next time I do it I'm gonna go ahead and do it for 2 minutes a side and get it chewier.

Oh, and I did the thumb punch through the dough to form the hole, the one I tried to roll and form the bagel didn't really turn out bagel shaped(but it still tasted good)

Thumposaurus
Jul 24, 2007



Bagel dough is pretty stiff stuff it'll give your machine or arms a work out.
I do the hole poke too and spin them around on my two index fingers like I'm spinning a gun around 2 at a time. I'm usually making them 48 at a time so I gotta be as efficient as possible.
Other tips don't crowd the pot while they are boiling, as soon as you get them out and onto your tray/topped with whatever your gonna top them with get them in the oven asap. I've found the longer they sit in between the two they can deflate or get this weird wrinkled texture.

HClChicken
Aug 15, 2005

Highly trained by the US military at expedient semen processing.


Thumposaurus posted:



Finished laminated croissant dough

Been meaning to make croissants and I pulled up the Julia Child recipe. How difficult was it to make it and can you give any user tips?

Thumposaurus
Jul 24, 2007



I do this batch of dough multiple times a week so it's easy for me.
But tips for the first timer. Let the dough develop enough in the mixer or if kneading by hand. It takes on a satiny look and will clean the bowl as it is moved around by the hook.

Let the dough rest in the fridge overnight, develops flavor and helps to relax the glutens.
You want your dough and your butter to be roughly the same temperature, we use plugra brand butter at work, it seems like the "European" style butters work better for laminated doughs.

I take the blocks of not quite warm not quite cold butter and beat them with a rolling pin to flatten out into a block about 1/2" thick. Then you roll your dough out into a sheet a little bigger than double the size of your butter block. Seal the butter in the dough.
Roll it out and do the first turn fold it like a letter in thirds brushing off any excess flour and spritzing lightly with a water bottle.
Wrap and chill after each turn, my marble there is refrigerated so I don't have to chill it between turns.

After 3 turns roll it out to your final thickness and cut it into triangles, we always rest the triangles overnight as well it just makes the final pulling and rolling of the croissants so much easier.
Then you just let the trinagles warm up slightly and pull the bottom points out a bit and pull the middle point up a bunch and roll it up putting as little pressure as possible on the dough you don't want to smoosh your layers.
Then cover loosely with greased plastic wrap and proof about 3 hours or until doubled, eggwash, bake, and consume.

Oh and save your scraps you can stack them up keeping the layers going the same directions and re-roll it and use it like you would use puff pastry.

That was a lot of words.

FishBulb
Mar 29, 2003

Marge, I'd like to be alone with the sandwich for a moment.

Are you going to eat it?

...yes...


therattle posted:

Thanks. I've tried that and it's been quite sour. Any tips? How do you build it prior to baking?

I'm not sure if I have tips to unsour it sadly, I always found it to be not quite as sour as I'd like it really My general policy was to dump the mason jar into a large bowl, add a feeding, wait for it to work a bit and warm up (cold starter doesn't do much) and the use what I need for a recipe and return the rest of the bowl to the mason jar.

Sadly I don't currently have a mother going though. I might try start one again eventually, just got added to the list of things I gave up when I had another kid.

The Doctor
Jul 8, 2007

The angels have my snatch

Fallen Rib

Yeah, I don't know what the deal is with my starter but it barely tastes sour at all any more. I've been keeping it in the fridge and I don't even bother feeding it once a week. I take it out occasionally, scrape off the nasty, feed it, leave it on the counter overnight, feed it again and put it back in the fridge.

therattle
Jul 24, 2007

I'm a family man - I run a family business. This is my son and my partner, H.W.


Soiled Meat

The Doctor posted:

Yeah, I don't know what the deal is with my starter but it barely tastes sour at all any more. I've been keeping it in the fridge and I don't even bother feeding it once a week. I take it out occasionally, scrape off the nasty, feed it, leave it on the counter overnight, feed it again and put it back in the fridge.

I've just taken mine out of the fridge after at least a couple of months; fed it earlier and it seems to be bubbling away happily. I think I'll build it for a bake on Sunday. Feed tomorrow morning, maybe tomorrow evening, and set a no-knead on Sunday morn for an evening bake.

twoot
Oct 29, 2012



Today I found that my ~2month old rye sourdough starter that I've been keeping in the fridge grew a white mould and it stunk like bad cheese. I just tossed it.

I'll start another at some point. We really just don't get through enough bread at the moment.

The Doctor
Jul 8, 2007

The angels have my snatch

Fallen Rib

Yeah, it seems to be really difficult to kill these things once they really get going. I've made a ton of bread out of this starter and I don't really worry about it in there.

Let us know how your bread comes out, therattle!

e: but that white mould and cheese smell sounds nasty. Mine just gets a purple layer on top and smells like booze. I scrape it off and there's a perfect starter underneath.

therattle
Jul 24, 2007

I'm a family man - I run a family business. This is my son and my partner, H.W.


Soiled Meat

The Doctor posted:

Yeah, it seems to be really difficult to kill these things once they really get going. I've made a ton of bread out of this starter and I don't really worry about it in there.

Let us know how your bread comes out, therattle!

e: but that white mould and cheese smell sounds nasty. Mine just gets a purple layer on top and smells like booze. I scrape it off and there's a perfect starter underneath.

Mine had a layer of dark hooch and smelled pretty vinegary. I drained off the liquid and scraped off the white dimpled top, and underneath seemed good. I'll let you know!

FishBulb
Mar 29, 2003

Marge, I'd like to be alone with the sandwich for a moment.

Are you going to eat it?

...yes...


What's wrong with your guys mother tops? After draining the liquid I've never scraped anything.

Am I going to die?

The Doctor
Jul 8, 2007

The angels have my snatch

Fallen Rib

Weird stuff on top is a normal part of leaving the starter for a long time (most people say you're not really supposed to). I scrape off the gross stuff because...it's gross. I don't really know what it is except that the liquid is hooch and for some reason it turns the top of my starter purple.

Someone come in the thread and talk some science here. I just scrape it because I don't want a purple boozey starter.

Marta Velasquez
Mar 9, 2013

Good thing I was feeling suicidal this morning...


Fallen Rib

I would eat a purple boozey bread. It's sounds great for a grilled cheese sandwich.

twoot
Oct 29, 2012



The Doctor posted:

Someone come in the thread and talk some science here. I just scrape it because I don't want a purple boozey starter.

Yeast doesn't ferment at 100% efficiency. It will also produce small amounts of short chain hydrocarbons like methanol, ketones, esters, ect. My starter smelled like nail polish remover (acetone) and had the clear liquid layer on top. This is because the small hydrocarbons diffuse to the surface and evaporate. The same thing would happen in bread if it had a high enough water content and was left sitting for long enough.

I always mixed the stuff back into the starter whenever I fed it. I suppose that there might be a degree of toxicity towards the yeast but I don't know if it has ever been tested.

The Doctor
Jul 8, 2007

The angels have my snatch

Fallen Rib

Thanks! Now it makes more sense. Yeah, my boyfriend has stirred it back in before and we didn't have any problems, I just prefer not to given the ick factor, but if it's really benign maybe I won't bother in the future.

Shbobdb
Dec 16, 2010

by Smythe


Two questions:

1) Has anyone tried adding roux to bread? I really think a nice dark roux could kick some bread up a notch. Obviously, all the protein is shot to hell so there would need to be some vital wheat gluten or something to fluff it up. More realistically, just not too much roux. Anybody tried this? Any good?

2) Trying to find an answer for #1, I found out about the water roux method. What are people's results with that? It seems like autolyse on steroids. Worth doing for fluffier bread? ~*~MY GIRLFRIEND~*~ loves fluffy bread.

Romeo Charlie
Sep 7, 2012

Hanson: It's Time

Grimey Drawer

Shbobdb posted:

Two questions:

1) Has anyone tried adding roux to bread? I really think a nice dark roux could kick some bread up a notch. Obviously, all the protein is shot to hell so there would need to be some vital wheat gluten or something to fluff it up. More realistically, just not too much roux. Anybody tried this? Any good?

2) Trying to find an answer for #1, I found out about the water roux method. What are people's results with that? It seems like autolyse on steroids. Worth doing for fluffier bread? ~*~MY GIRLFRIEND~*~ loves fluffy bread.

1) Roux will work like any other type of fats in bread production. It is suggested that you only use 1-2% of the flour weight of your dough. If you use more than that then you will need to increase the yeast in your dough as high amounts of fat in the dough causes a coating effect on the dough, effectively making it harder for the yeast to feed and produce CO2.

2) I don't use roux at work, we use vegetable oil for our sweet doughs, but yes you should get a fluffier dough with Roux.

yoshesque
Dec 19, 2010



Shbobdb posted:

Two questions:

1) Has anyone tried adding roux to bread? I really think a nice dark roux could kick some bread up a notch. Obviously, all the protein is shot to hell so there would need to be some vital wheat gluten or something to fluff it up. More realistically, just not too much roux. Anybody tried this? Any good?

2) Trying to find an answer for #1, I found out about the water roux method. What are people's results with that? It seems like autolyse on steroids. Worth doing for fluffier bread? ~*~MY GIRLFRIEND~*~ loves fluffy bread.

I can vouch for the water roux method, it makes amazing bread, and hardly any extra effort. The recipe I use is this one.

KingColliwog
May 15, 2003

Let's go droogs

yay bread. I recently started making bread (no knead) and god my life is about 10x more awesome now. I doubt I'll be buying bread in the near future since I can have bakery quality bread for something like 10 minutes of effort.

Anyway, my basic reciepe is
500g flour
350g water
10g salt
some random amount of active dry yeast (I use a teaspoon and pick some with the tip. prolly around 1/4 1/2 teaspoon)

Dump all of taht in a bowl, mix it with the "stick" part of a wooden spoon. Put some flour on top, cover with cling wrap, let rise anywhere from 12 to 24 hours depending on when it's convenient to bake it the next day.

fold it a bunch (4-5 full "set" of folding) put it on a towel that I sprinkled some corn meal on/cover with said towel.

Proof for around 2 hours
cook at 450 in a dutch oven for 30 minutes with the lid on, 15 minutes with the lid ajar.

Since then I've made a few variation (adding a handful of semi-sweet chocolate chunks and a handful of unsweetened coconut was particularly delicous if not super healthy)

But my favorite change is simply using beer instead of water. Am I the only one doing that? It turns out the amount of liquid I need is perfect for a can or bottle of beer. It's such an easy way to add some flavor and I feel like the texture is better but that might just be in my head.

---

One question though, I'm trying to make my bread healthy so I'm using integral wheat bread flour. Right now I'm around 50/50 white/integral flour because if I go any higher than that the bread comes out too dense, less chewy and not all that nice to eat. Is there anything that will help get better texture with whole wheat flours?

And one last question. How do you guys keep your bread? I've been letting it sit cut face on the board for a day or two before chunking it in a ziploc bag and that seems to work for me but people seem to think using plastic bags is a sin. Am I insane or something?

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NightConqueror
Oct 5, 2006
im in ur base killin ur mans

KingColliwog posted:

One question though, I'm trying to make my bread healthy so I'm using integral wheat bread flour. Right now I'm around 50/50 white/integral flour because if I go any higher than that the bread comes out too dense, less chewy and not all that nice to eat. Is there anything that will help get better texture with whole wheat flours?

Whole wheat flour absorbs a great deal more water than regular white flour. For example, when making a 100% whole wheat hearth bread, the hydration of the dough in well-near 90%. If you did this with white flour it would be like cake batter, but with whole wheat it is much closer to a somewhat sticky dough. Try increasing your water by about 50 grams or so to accomodate the whole wheat.

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