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mediaphage
Mar 22, 2007

Ricola-kun, tell me
about pizza cones!


The Doctor posted:

Can there be a rule or something where we stop apologetically calling ourselves poor? I don't know man, it's ok to not have money, and you can even be proud that you do everything by hand. I certainly do not use a mixer.

I think he was talking about bread machines, which make terrible bread anyway.

Also hand kneading is a glorious way to work out stress, and you can take as long as you want because it's basically impossible to overknead.

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Dreadwroth
Dec 12, 2009



mediaphage posted:

I think he was talking about bread machines, which make terrible bread anyway.

Also hand kneading is a glorious way to work out stress, and you can take as long as you want because it's basically impossible to overknead.

Yeah I was referring to all this talk of Kitchenaids, but it was mainly tongue-in-cheek. It's good, we're all bread friends here.

Clockwork Cupcake
Oct 31, 2010



Otm Shank posted:

So I really want to bake this bread:

Chocolate Orange Bread
http://smittenkitchen.com/blog/2006...side-of-atkins/

1/2 cup warm water, about 110 degrees
2 1/2 teaspoons (1 envelope) active dry yeast
2 3/4 cups unbleached all-purpose flour (remember to reserve some, adding it only if you need)
1/4 cup unsweetened cocoa, about 1 ounce
3 tablespoons sugar
1 teaspoon salt
1 teaspoon finely grated orange zest
1/2 teaspoon ground cinnamon
2 tablespoons unsalted butter
1/4 cup milk
1 egg

but a lot of the comments on the recipe complain about a weird acidic taste. Do you think bumping the sugar up to 1/2 a cup would fix this without messing up the loaf? Or have a better recipe?

I don't know anything about the chocolate-orange variant but I made the plain white batter bread from here and it was delicious. The loaf vanished before it could fully cool.

Rurutia
Jun 11, 2009


The Doctor posted:

My weekly challah exploded!



If you're wondering why that bread looks ripped in half...it's ripped in half. It likes to do that coming out of the pan sometimes. Just when you think you've used too much oil...

Any way I added extra salt and this is easily the best bread I've ever made. It's light and airy yet moist. It also has a stretched, stranded quality that probably has some fancy name in the baking world. Basically this is the kind of food that makes people obese.

Do you have a recipe for this? For some reason, I seem incapable of making really really soft, airy, fluffy bread. I even bought wheat gluten, and that didn't help. It's one of my ultimate cooking goals to be able to make bread that I'd be willing to make everyday and eat the entire loaf and get really really fat off of.

The Doctor
Jul 8, 2007

The angels have my snatch

Fallen Rib

Rurutia posted:

Do you have a recipe for this? For some reason, I seem incapable of making really really soft, airy, fluffy bread. I even bought wheat gluten, and that didn't help. It's one of my ultimate cooking goals to be able to make bread that I'd be willing to make everyday and eat the entire loaf and get really really fat off of.

It's extremely simple!

For two biggish loaves:

2 1/2 cups warm water
2 tbsps sugar
1 tbsp dry active yeast
2 eggs (size doesn't much matter, I opt for bigger)
2 tbsps oil
1 tsp salt
8 cups whole wheat flour (I'm sure white works just as well)

Dissolve the sugar into the water, add the yeast and proof for like ten minutes or something, it will start to bubble. Add your eggs, oil, and salt to the yeast mixture, incorporate fully. To this, add four cups of your flour, slowly creating a batter, scraping the mix down off the sides of the bowl (I start out using a fork) until you have a kind of lumpy paste. You can let this hang out for a half an hour or so or you can immediately start adding the rest of the flour bit by bit.

Once it starts getting firmer you can switch to mixing with your hands or a flat spoon or something. Once all the flour is in the bowl it's usually kind of a pain to keep incorporating it all so I dump the whole thing (loose flour and all) onto the counter and start pressing the flour into it. It tends to be a little wet so I add a little flour here and there but really it's ok if it's a little sticky, as long as it's a dough as opposed to a batter. Then I basically just knead for a few minutes until it's nommed all the loose flour and is a little more elastic.

At this point I toss it on top of a disposable plastic grocery bag on the counter and lay another bag on top of it without attempting to wrap it. Leave for an hour or an hour and a half, come back (it should be huge), punch it down, knead it, then shape it however you like, I separate into two loaves so it's not held down by it's own weight (is this a thing? it feels like a thing), add to a well greased pan or greased surface and let it rise for another hour, then pre-heat the oven to 350 and once it's heated, toss it in for 35 minutes (not less!). It's important for the oven to be fully heated because it tends not to rise as much on the second go but it will explode again once it gets into the hot oven.

Hope this helps!

Charmmi
Dec 8, 2008

:trophystare:


I am going to make that right now.

The Doctor
Jul 8, 2007

The angels have my snatch

Fallen Rib

Charmmi posted:

I am going to make that right now.

Let us know how it turns out!

Starhawk
Mar 28, 2003

I am leaking dangerous cargo.

Here's a Youtube tutorial on how to make French bread!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sL8AlCVtK3c

This is terrible. Don't do anything this guy says to do.

Charmmi
Dec 8, 2008

:trophystare:


The Doctor posted:

Let us know how it turns out!

The fluffiest softest bread I've ever laid eyes on. It poofed up almost double the height of the pan. This recipe is a keeper.

The Doctor
Jul 8, 2007

The angels have my snatch

Fallen Rib

Charmmi posted:

The fluffiest softest bread I've ever laid eyes on. It poofed up almost double the height of the pan. This recipe is a keeper.

Woohoo! Yes, I love this recipe and it magically goes into the oven looking normal and then proceeds to explode. I think the eggs are a big help.

Rurutia
Jun 11, 2009


Ahhh, that's amazing! I'm so sad now that I have to wait til Christmas to have access to my baking tools. Just a couple questions:

The Doctor You gave the recipe in volume, do you have it in weight, or do you know what the hydration % is supposed to be? Secondly, you punch down and re-knead before the second rise - have you tried just doing a french fold to keep as much of the air as possible?

Charmmi Did you use a mixer or did you hand knead? Just wondering if using a mixer would gently caress it up.

edit Going to make this someday too. http://www.weekendbakery.com/posts/...ation-baguette/

Rurutia fucked around with this message at Oct 30, 2012 around 14:05

Charmmi
Dec 8, 2008

:trophystare:


I used a mixer. My large cutting board that I usually knead on was nowhere to be found. The dough starts out very tacky and will eat up a lot of loose flour.

scuz
Aug 29, 2003

You can't be angry ALL the time!


Rurutia posted:

Ahhh, that's amazing! I'm so sad now that I have to wait til Christmas to have access to my baking tools. Just a couple questions:

The Doctor You gave the recipe in volume, do you have it in weight, or do you know what the hydration % is supposed to be? Secondly, you punch down and re-knead before the second rise - have you tried just doing a french fold to keep as much of the air as possible?

Charmmi Did you use a mixer or did you hand knead? Just wondering if using a mixer would gently caress it up.

edit Going to make this someday too. http://www.weekendbakery.com/posts/...ation-baguette/

That link is awesome, thanks for sharing it. I've been stuck with dense loaves and every once in a while I'd like a crusty baguette to come out out of my oven

Kathandrion
Jul 10, 2009

by Y Kant Ozma Post


I've made the recipe from that link several times and it might be the best bread I've ever tasted (and I love bread). I struggle with shaping (baguettes are hard!), but I feel like I had no idea what a baguette was supposed to taste like until I made and tasted that bread.

Whatever you do, eat it while it is fresh! lovely supermarket baguettes will keep for a couple days, but that one will literally be a rock in 8 hours (you can heat it back up in the oven at 350ish for a couple minutes to get a few more hours of life out of it).

That recipe is the reason that I now own a couche and a lame.

Edit:

Found some pictures of my very first try at it:




Kathandrion fucked around with this message at Oct 30, 2012 around 16:35

The Doctor
Jul 8, 2007

The angels have my snatch

Fallen Rib

Rurutia posted:

Ahhh, that's amazing! I'm so sad now that I have to wait til Christmas to have access to my baking tools. Just a couple questions:

The Doctor You gave the recipe in volume, do you have it in weight, or do you know what the hydration % is supposed to be? Secondly, you punch down and re-knead before the second rise - have you tried just doing a french fold to keep as much of the air as possible?

Charmmi Did you use a mixer or did you hand knead? Just wondering if using a mixer would gently caress it up.

edit Going to make this someday too. http://www.weekendbakery.com/posts/...ation-baguette/

No, I don't have it in weight. It's my own adaptation of a recipe I found a while ago and I don't use a kitchen scale. I also wouldn't have any idea about hydration %. I'm sure the folding technique would be fine as well, but punching it down and then shaping has been very successful.

mediaphage
Mar 22, 2007

Ricola-kun, tell me
about pizza cones!


Reinhart's challah has 5.5% oil, 18% eggs, 7% egg yolks and ~45% water by weight. Salt is at 1.4%, sugar at 5.5%, and flour, of course, is 100%.

therattle
Jul 24, 2007

I'm a family man - I run a family business. This is my son and my partner, H.W.


Soiled Meat

Kathandrion posted:

I've made the recipe from that link several times and it might be the best bread I've ever tasted (and I love bread). I struggle with shaping (baguettes are hard!), but I feel like I had no idea what a baguette was supposed to taste like until I made and tasted that bread.

Whatever you do, eat it while it is fresh! lovely supermarket baguettes will keep for a couple days, but that one will literally be a rock in 8 hours (you can heat it back up in the oven at 350ish for a couple minutes to get a few more hours of life out of it).

That recipe is the reason that I now own a couche and a lame.

Edit:

Found some pictures of my very first try at it:




That looks amazing. As soon as bread goes from being really fresh I toast it. How is that when toasted?

toplitzin
Jun 13, 2003


Doctor, whenever I've made challah, my recipe is pretty close to yours, except I use honey instead of sugar.

I think if you try it you'll find the results quite delicious.

The dough really lets the flavor of the honey you use shine through. I've used regular clover honey, wild thistle honey, orange blossom honey, chestnut honey, and by far the favorite, lavender honey.

keyboard vomit
Jun 23, 2012



I made bread for the first time tonight, just a basic wheat type recipe. The end result was a dense loaf, like cornbread but wheat, instead of a light fluffy thing. What's the reason for this? Bad yeast, or something else?

The Doctor
Jul 8, 2007

The angels have my snatch

Fallen Rib

toplitzin posted:

Doctor, whenever I've made challah, my recipe is pretty close to yours, except I use honey instead of sugar.

I think if you try it you'll find the results quite delicious.

The dough really lets the flavor of the honey you use shine through. I've used regular clover honey, wild thistle honey, orange blossom honey, chestnut honey, and by far the favorite, lavender honey.

I will do this at some point in the near future, for sure.

TychoCelchuuu
Jan 2, 2012

This space for Rent.

Enter Char posted:

I made bread for the first time tonight, just a basic wheat type recipe. The end result was a dense loaf, like cornbread but wheat, instead of a light fluffy thing. What's the reason for this? Bad yeast, or something else?
Did it rise at all?

keyboard vomit
Jun 23, 2012



TychoCelchuuu posted:

Did it rise at all?

A bit, but the end result was still a pretty dense loaf.

Kathandrion
Jul 10, 2009

by Y Kant Ozma Post


therattle posted:

That looks amazing. As soon as bread goes from being really fresh I toast it. How is that when toasted?

It's good. Once past the first day you can get some life out of it if you warm it up or toast it, or of course you can just make panzanella or croutons out of it.

Charmmi
Dec 8, 2008

:trophystare:


I snapped a quick pick of the innards of the challah I made with The Doctor's recipe. So fluffy!!!



And that chunk missing is because my cat ate my loving bread. gently caress you cat you have your own goddamn food and how did you eat through a layer of heavy duty foil to get at my loving bread. I mean gently caress, dude.

This is how I found it when I got home just now.


Fuckin cat.

TychoCelchuuu
Jan 2, 2012

This space for Rent.

Enter Char posted:

A bit, but the end result was still a pretty dense loaf.
I'm no bread expert but if it rose a bit then your yeast was probably doing something; maybe you either needed to let it rise longer or knead it more so that it forms enough gluten chains to trap the gas released by the yeast.

therattle
Jul 24, 2007

I'm a family man - I run a family business. This is my son and my partner, H.W.


Soiled Meat

Enter Char posted:

A bit, but the end result was still a pretty dense loaf.
What flour did you use? Can you tell us your recipe and method?

That challah looks amazing. I've never heard of a bread-eating cat!

The Doctor
Jul 8, 2007

The angels have my snatch

Fallen Rib

Charmmi posted:

I snapped a quick pick of the innards of the challah I made with The Doctor's recipe. So fluffy!!!



And that chunk missing is because my cat ate my loving bread. gently caress you cat you have your own goddamn food and how did you eat through a layer of heavy duty foil to get at my loving bread. I mean gently caress, dude.

This is how I found it when I got home just now.


Fuckin cat.

Awesome! That's basically what my bread always looks like, except whole wheat. I can't believe your cat ate your bread...

keyboard vomit
Jun 23, 2012



therattle posted:

What flour did you use? Can you tell us your recipe and method?

That challah looks amazing. I've never heard of a bread-eating cat!

I can't find the recipe I used, but it seems similar to the challah posted here. The recipe I used had a bit less water proportionately. I used wheat flour. Process was mix, knead let rise, knead again and shape.

I also did not proof my yeast, which I guess is worth doing.

therattle
Jul 24, 2007

I'm a family man - I run a family business. This is my son and my partner, H.W.


Soiled Meat

Enter Char posted:

I can't find the recipe I used, but it seems similar to the challah posted here. The recipe I used had a bit less water proportionately. I used wheat flour. Process was mix, knead let rise, knead again and shape.

I also did not proof my yeast, which I guess is worth doing.
Did you use white wheat flour or wholemeal? How long did you knead for? Did you knead by hand or machine?

keyboard vomit
Jun 23, 2012



therattle posted:

Did you use white wheat flour or wholemeal? How long did you knead for? Did you knead by hand or machine?

Whole wheat flour, hand kneaded for 2 minutes each kneading.

mediaphage
Mar 22, 2007

Ricola-kun, tell me
about pizza cones!


For what it's worth, I'm not sure how challah-y that challah is. Traditionally, challah is way more eggy - like enough yolk to turn it golden. It's a bit stiffer, too.

That said this bread is probably more appropriate to eat on a regular basis since challah can be pretty rich.

GigaFool
Oct 22, 2001



mediaphage posted:

Traditionally, challah is way more eggy - like enough yolk to turn it golden.

To be fair, most 'golden' challah in the supermarket is colored artificially. The golden exterior is easy enough to get at home with an egg wash right before baking.

vvv- Doctor's recipe is a bit light, but I hope you don't mean 8/10 per loaf. I don't really want to debate the 'rules of challah' but I've never seen or used a recipe that heavy, and I grew up in a Jewish family.

GigaFool fucked around with this message at Oct 31, 2012 around 16:19

mich
Feb 28, 2003



I think mp means the crumb itself has a bit of a golden hue. When I've made challah I've used recipes that have like 8-10 eggs/egg yolk and the color is noticeable. Doctor's recipe is more similar to a regular sandwich loaf.

The Doctor
Jul 8, 2007

The angels have my snatch

Fallen Rib

mediaphage posted:

For what it's worth, I'm not sure how challah-y that challah is. Traditionally, challah is way more eggy - like enough yolk to turn it golden. It's a bit stiffer, too.

That said this bread is probably more appropriate to eat on a regular basis since challah can be pretty rich.

Indeed, it is just an all-purpose loaf that happens to contain eggs.

axolotl farmer
May 17, 2007

I had me a vision
there wasn't any television



Nap Ghost

Happy Hat posted:


Yeast is alive, and needs to be active.. If you're using dry yeast, then activate it - add a splash of lukewarm water to the yeast, and then add a tablespoon of sugar - mix it, and look at it untill it starts bubbling happily away (unless you can't be bothered to wait that long - which is about 10 minutes!!!) then just mix it thoroughly and let it liquify.


Modern dry yeast really doesn't need proofing, just mix it with the flour. I have never had a dough made with dry yeast fail to rise, and I always just add it in the mix without proofing.

Last year, I was in my family's falling down summer house and brought stuff to bake bread. Then I realized that I had forgot to bring yeast of any kind. Looked through the mostly empty pantry and found a package of dry yeast that expired in 1999, which means it was made in 1997 or so.

Mixed it with the flour, and the rising was really no different from bread made with fresh pressed yeast.

The Doctor
Jul 8, 2007

The angels have my snatch

Fallen Rib

axolotl farmer posted:

Modern dry yeast really doesn't need proofing, just mix it with the flour. I have never had a dough made with dry yeast fail to rise, and I always just add it in the mix without proofing.

I also often just toss it in, but the last couple times I have proofed it I have had an improved rise.

therattle
Jul 24, 2007

I'm a family man - I run a family business. This is my son and my partner, H.W.


Soiled Meat

Enter Char posted:

Whole wheat flour, hand kneaded for 2 minutes each kneading.
Two minutes isn't nearly enough. Hand kneading takes about 8-10 minutes. After some time you will really feel the dough suddenly change from a formless mass of stickiness to a coherent dough with a definite structure. The texture also changes from sticky to much smoother. Wholewheat flour will always give a denser loaf than white (a small amount like 20% of which is often added to lighten the loaf), but I think under kneading is your problem.

mich
Feb 28, 2003



GigaFool posted:

To be fair, most 'golden' challah in the supermarket is colored artificially. The golden exterior is easy enough to get at home with an egg wash right before baking.

vvv- Doctor's recipe is a bit light, but I hope you don't mean 8/10 per loaf. I don't really want to debate the 'rules of challah' but I've never seen or used a recipe that heavy, and I grew up in a Jewish family.

I've done 2 eggs + 2 yolks for one large loaf and 4-5 whole eggs or 8-10 egg yolks for two loaves.

aldantefax
Oct 10, 2007

ALWAYS BE MECHFISHIN'

I would like to share that I recently received the book Tartine Bread as an unexpected birthday gift, and it is pretty fantastic. The pictures are beautiful. It feels like a much more lay version of the Breadbaker's Apprentice, which is also fantastic, and I also own that too!

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Butch Cassidy
Jul 28, 2010


therattle posted:


Everyone screws up a bit sometimes

This was the result of a bout of insomnia I tried to battle with gin and then decided I might as well bake a loaf of bread if I couldn't sleep:



Also, don't dump the whey if you make cheese. It is great as liquid in bread dough.

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