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Fitzy77
Dec 26, 2008



Does anyone have a reliable recipe for gluten-free bread? My girlfriend found out over the summer that she has to go gluten free from now on, and Udi's bread is the best premade bread we've found; at $7 a loaf.

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PiratePing
Jan 3, 2007
Why is a pirate called a pirate? Because they arrr!

Got the Bread Baker's Apprentice for Christmas, sourdough'd

SymmetryrtemmyS
Jul 13, 2013

I got super tired of seeing your avatar throwing those fuckin' glasses around in the astrology thread so I fixed it to a .jpg

PiratePing posted:

Got the Bread Baker's Apprentice for Christmas, sourdough'd



Sweet! That's probably the best book to start seriously baking bread with. Next, you'll want to pick up Beranbaum's Bread.

Got any crumb shots?

PiratePing
Jan 3, 2007
Why is a pirate called a pirate? Because they arrr!

I wish I did but the smell attracted housemates and then it all went really fast. The crumb was pretty much like standard sandwich bread, crust was nice and crispy but a bit thin.


My town has two 18th century windmills that still operate on the weekends, I'm going to splurge on some flour soon

SymmetryrtemmyS
Jul 13, 2013

I got super tired of seeing your avatar throwing those fuckin' glasses around in the astrology thread so I fixed it to a .jpg

PiratePing posted:

I wish I did but the smell attracted housemates and then it all went really fast. The crumb was pretty much like standard sandwich bread, crust was nice and crispy but a bit thin.


My town has two 18th century windmills that still operate on the weekends, I'm going to splurge on some flour soon

Next time, I'd slash quite a bit deeper - you only gave it surface slashes, which isn't going to give you great oven spring.

Please tell me you made them wait until it was cool! There are very few sins worse than cutting into hot bread.

I am so jealous of your mills. Do you know if they do small batches of your own grains? If so, you should buy some nice wheat/rye/semolina/etc and get that milled up. Fresh flour erry day. This is especially crucial for whole wheat flour, as the oils in the bran go rancid within a few weeks/months (depending on oil level, acidity, storage conditions, and other factors). I've been saving up for a flour mill for that reason - as you may know, I bake a lot of bread, and fresh flour is absolutely wonderful to work with.

What do they charge for 5 lb of soft white?

PiratePing
Jan 3, 2007
Why is a pirate called a pirate? Because they arrr!

SymmetryrtemmyS posted:

Next time, I'd slash quite a bit deeper - you only gave it surface slashes, which isn't going to give you great oven spring.

Please tell me you made them wait until it was cool! There are very few sins worse than cutting into hot bread.

I am so jealous of your mills. Do you know if they do small batches of your own grains? If so, you should buy some nice wheat/rye/semolina/etc and get that milled up. Fresh flour erry day. This is especially crucial for whole wheat flour, as the oils in the bran go rancid within a few weeks/months (depending on oil level, acidity, storage conditions, and other factors). I've been saving up for a flour mill for that reason - as you may know, I bake a lot of bread, and fresh flour is absolutely wonderful to work with.

What do they charge for 5 lb of soft white?

Heck yeah I made them wait, whipped up some garlic butter while they circled it like hungry heyenas.

I don't know whether they'll let people bring their own grains but I'm sure some kind of deal can be struck. According to the website you have to call in advance if you want to be sure they'll have a certain kind so if they already work to order it shouldn't be too much trouble. They sell 2.5 kg for 4 euro and 5 kg for 7.50 euro, that's about 6lb for 5 and 11lb for 10 dollars. They also have bread improver, worth picking up?

Upon further research there are like 6 windmills within biking distance. One also sells hemp seed flour and tulip bulbs. :cryingclog:

PiratePing fucked around with this message at Jan 16, 2014 around 14:14

SymmetryrtemmyS
Jul 13, 2013

I got super tired of seeing your avatar throwing those fuckin' glasses around in the astrology thread so I fixed it to a .jpg

PiratePing posted:

Heck yeah I made them wait, whipped up some garlic butter while they circled it like hungry heyenas.

I don't know whether they'll let people bring their own grains but I'm sure some kind of deal can be struck. According to the website you have to call in advance if you want to be sure they'll have a certain kind so if they already work to order it shouldn't be too much trouble. They sell 2.5 kg for 4 euro and 5 kg for 7.50 euro, that's about 6lb for 5 and 11lb for 10 dollars. They also have bread improver, worth picking up?

Upon further research there are like 6 windmills within biking distance. One also sells hemp seed flour and tulip bulbs. :cryingclog:

That is amazing. I am so jealous.

As far as bread improver, find out what ingredients are in it. It's probably a combination of a few acids, flour, wheat germ, vital wheat gluten, maybe lecithin and/or maltodextrin. If you see anything in there that you don't trust, come back and ask the thread. Considering the source, though, I'd assume it's a good product.

It's up to you whether or not you want to take shortcuts to better baking. I personally use some sort of adjunct or chemical in just about every one of my loaves, because it makes better bread - but the trick is knowing what chemicals do what, and how much you want by weight for what effect. For that, there are papers and cookbooks and textbooks and blog posts and forum posts. That said, whatever amount of dough improver they recommend adding will do something, and probably something positive, so it's at least worth a try.

Baron Fuzzlewhack
Sep 22, 2010

ALIVE ENOUGH TO DIE


Gave it a shot today, shat out this monstrosity (with dramatic lighting!):



That was my attempt at doing a no-knead bread based on the recipe in the archived thread. I don't have a scale so I had to do it by volume. I used roughly 2 1/4 cups flour to 1 1/2 cups water. Let it sit for 14-15 hours. I still had a goopy mess that was impossible to fold properly at that point, but I rolled with it anyway.

It tasted fine, if a bit too salty, but obviously didn't rise enough, and the crumb came out pretty doughy. I may have used 1/8 teaspoon yeast rather than 1/4 which probably didn't help.

So I rolled up my sleeves and started kneading a new loaf to give that a shot instead! It came out much nicer:



Complete with bread-vagina:


And crumb shot:



I couldn't tell you how much flour I used because I tried the 3:2 flour:water ratio again, found it too goopy once again, so just started throwing in flour until it was possible to handle/knead without it sticking much. I also used less salt than I had in the no-knead up above, and instead of throwing the active dry yeast into the dry ingredients, I tried my hand at activating it in some warm water with a bit of honey. I doubt it changed much, but this loaf came out pretty, fluffy, and moist as hell, if a bit bland.

All-in-all a fun way to spend a day off from work. Definitely going to keep experimenting.

Nabokoffin
Feb 2, 2003

The way of the world is to bloom and to flower and die but in the affairs of men there is no waning and the noon of his expression signals the onset of night.

That looks pretty good! bread definitely takes some experimenting to get the hang of.

I think I made 20 loaves before I started to start developing my technique. There is always more to know about it though!

Get a scale though if you wan't to stick with it.

I put 1000 grams of flour into a bowl on the scale, 750 grams of water, 1 tbs of yeast and 1 tbs of kosher salt(I'm at high altitude so this is what works for me, you might need more).

I let sit for an hour or so then kind of knead my no knead bread by picking it up and stretching it out and folding repeatedly. This gives me better gluten structure than real no knead bread.

This can sit in the fridge for a week covered and can pull dough off. It makes about 3 medium size loves.


What did you bake it on? what temp? did you make steam in the oven?

Nabokoffin fucked around with this message at Jan 17, 2014 around 02:30

Baron Fuzzlewhack
Sep 22, 2010

ALIVE ENOUGH TO DIE


copen posted:

This can sit in the fridge for a week covered and can pull dough off. It makes about 3 medium size loves.

That sounds neat. I'm not sure I could go through quite that much bread in a week, but maybe if I made it tastier I'd chew through it faster, too! Or toss some at my friends/neighbors.

copen posted:

What did you bake it on? what temp? did you make steam in the oven?

I baked both on a metal cookie sheet for lack of anything better, with a dish of water tucked beside in the hopes it would actually give me proper steam.

For the first loaf, I followed the instructions in the archived thread pretty closely and baked it at 450F for around 20 minutes, then took it off the sheet and left it on the oven rack at 375F for another 20 minutes.

The second loaf I left at 450F the entire time, baked for maybe 30 minutes on the sheet, took it out to check it, then threw it back in for another 20-30 minutes on the oven rack itself.

I probably shouldn't have changed every variable I could if I was going to properly experiment, but I really wanted a swelling loaf to show off at the end of the day.

Nabokoffin
Feb 2, 2003

The way of the world is to bloom and to flower and die but in the affairs of men there is no waning and the noon of his expression signals the onset of night.

I like a hot oven, more than artisan bread in 5 minutes a day says anyways.

Keep the loaves kind of small and go really hot like 450 or higher is good I think.

Do you own any cast iron?

Stale french bread makes the best french toast. That's why french toast is a thing anyways, so french people back in the day could get use out of their stale bread.

Also you can make croutons, stuffing and breadcrumbs with it.

edit: that is just an easy recipe for me to remember as a 75% hydration loaf, it can be halved.

Nabokoffin fucked around with this message at Jan 17, 2014 around 03:01

Baron Fuzzlewhack
Sep 22, 2010

ALIVE ENOUGH TO DIE


I have a cast iron pan I received for the holidays that is begging to be used. It wouldn't be much different from the metal sheet given it's flat and open (i.e. not a covered pot), but would it make much of a difference if I threw the dough on the preheated iron to bake?

Also, at 60%+ hydration, doesn't the dough come out extremely runny and difficult as hell to work with, or am I doing something wrong/not being patient enough? That issue is why I decided to just toss flour at the kneaded loaf until it was workable. It had started as a 3:2 flour:water ratio but I know it probably turned out to be closer to 5:2 once I was done with it.

Nabokoffin
Feb 2, 2003

The way of the world is to bloom and to flower and die but in the affairs of men there is no waning and the noon of his expression signals the onset of night.

Yes a preheated cast iron pan is great. It has a lot of heat built up in it which can be delivered to your bread as soon as you put it in there.
This will help with oven spring and getting the bottom browned.
This can be kind of tough on your seasoning though, but sacrifice some bacon to it and it shall be happy once again.
or just heat up and put a thin coat of oil on it

75% is pretty tough to work with, it is necessary for fridge storage though or it will get too dried out.

My kneading technique is more like pick up the dough, wait for one end to droop down, quickly pick it up and fold it in half.

I am not sure I recommend trying this starting out though.

Baron Fuzzlewhack
Sep 22, 2010

ALIVE ENOUGH TO DIE


Fair enough. I'll probably stick to regular kneaded bread for now while I try to find a method/ratio that works for me, and I'll give the no-knead a try again later down the line.

Thanks for the pointers and suggestions!

Le0
Mar 18, 2009

Rotten investigator!


Great job Baron Fuzzlewhack, your bread looks nice.

I'm also a bread apprentice and I was wondering something. My loaves, when compared to the one of Baron Fuzzlewhack, seem to be way less airy. Is it because I knock back too much or knead too much? I'm using the OP recipe by the way.

SymmetryrtemmyS
Jul 13, 2013

I got super tired of seeing your avatar throwing those fuckin' glasses around in the astrology thread so I fixed it to a .jpg

Le0 posted:

Great job Baron Fuzzlewhack, your bread looks nice.

I'm also a bread apprentice and I was wondering something. My loaves, when compared to the one of Baron Fuzzlewhack, seem to be way less airy. Is it because I knock back too much or knead too much? I'm using the OP recipe by the way.

For an airy, loose crumb, I recommend higher moisture and using a long rise and the stretch and fold method (wherein you do envelope folds on both axes after spreading your dough out to a large sheet), repeated every 45 minutes for 3-4 proves.

therattle
Jul 24, 2007

I'm a family man - I run a family business. This is my son and my partner, H.W.


Soiled Meat

Baron Fuzzlewhack posted:

I have a cast iron pan I received for the holidays that is begging to be used. It wouldn't be much different from the metal sheet given it's flat and open (i.e. not a covered pot), but would it make much of a difference if I threw the dough on the preheated iron to bake?

Also, at 60%+ hydration, doesn't the dough come out extremely runny and difficult as hell to work with, or am I doing something wrong/not being patient enough? That issue is why I decided to just toss flour at the kneaded loaf until it was workable. It had started as a 3:2 flour:water ratio but I know it probably turned out to be closer to 5:2 once I was done with it.

You're not at 60% hydration. A cup of flour weighs roughly 125-150 g. 3 cups yields 375-450gm flour. 2 cups of water is 500g/ml. You are actually at more than 100%. GET SCALES! Otherwise, just add water gradually until you have just enough to form a dough with all the flour incorporated.

SymmetryrtemmyS
Jul 13, 2013

I got super tired of seeing your avatar throwing those fuckin' glasses around in the astrology thread so I fixed it to a .jpg

therattle posted:

GET SCALES!

This is the single most useful piece of advice in this entire thread. I'm serious. Weighing your ingredients will give you an incredible advantage.

Now, if you absolutely will/can not buy a scale, you must at least measure your dry ingredients accurately. To do so, sift them (you can use a mesh strainer if you want - you're just trying to loosen up the space between flour bits) onto a surface or into a bowl, and take scoops then level off your cup measure. Do not pack the flour, either in the measure or in the bulk pile, since that would negate what we're trying to do here. Properly measured, you can obtain a reasonable accuracy for flour...but it's a giant pain in the rear end compared to just dumping some stuff on a scale.

If you are looking for a nice kitchen scale, this one's made for bakers and is a good scale besides that. The reason it's made for bakers is because it can measure by baker's math, which really makes this a no brain required operation; you set flour to 100%, then tare with an empty bowl and add water until it reaches X% and likewise for other ingredients. The reason you want to do this is because baker's math is a really convenient and nice way to record and share your bread formulae. For instance, 100%/70%/1%/2% of flour/water/salt/yeast will make a really average wet dough. When you start looking at more complex recipes, then it really comes in handy.

Important factors in a good scale: tare function, large weigh plate for large bowls, large, easily read screen that can be seen underneath a wide bowl (backlighting helps), and easily cleanable plate. You want at least 2-3g precision, ideally 1g. Being able to calibrate it is nice, but hardly necessary. The KD8000 is the model I chose, and I have zero complaints other than the plastic display cover is hilariously flimsy. Luckily, it's not even remotely necessary, and to make up for that they made the hold time (the time between when you remove an item from the scale and it goes back to zero) really long, and adjustable.

The point of this overly long post is GET A SCALE.

Happy Hat
Aug 11, 2008

He just wants someone to shake his corks, is that too much to ask??


Making tarte flambee

Or flammkuchen...

Why?

Because I am drinking a nice GC Riesling VT

Edit: Now drinking a GC Pinot Gris..

Happy Hat fucked around with this message at Jan 18, 2014 around 17:23

Steve Yun
Aug 7, 2003

I
ANALYZE
CARTOONS


Soiled Meat

Critique me



No knead sourdough, first proof 12 hours at 80F, second proof in metal bowl with no-stick baking spray and a little flour for about 2 hours, dusted with semolina, then inverted into preheated Dutch oven. Attempted to lame with a straight razor but it dragged. Sprinkled water because I didn't have a spray bottle. Baked 25 mins at 500F, then took the lid off and baked 15 mins at 450F.

Nabokoffin
Feb 2, 2003

The way of the world is to bloom and to flower and die but in the affairs of men there is no waning and the noon of his expression signals the onset of night.

unff, I still can't get crumb like that. beautiful.

edit: looks like the top cracked a bit from not a deep enough cut, so maybe you could of gotten more upward rise from it. still nothing to be ashamed about that bread.

Steve Yun
Aug 7, 2003

I
ANALYZE
CARTOONS


Soiled Meat

It's just that I GIS for boule and I see all these photos of gravity-defying double D cup silicone-enhanced boobs and mine just look like ordinary boobs. I want fake boobs!

Steve Yun fucked around with this message at Jan 18, 2014 around 20:08

Nabokoffin
Feb 2, 2003

The way of the world is to bloom and to flower and die but in the affairs of men there is no waning and the noon of his expression signals the onset of night.

haha, the secret is in the cut

Steve Yun
Aug 7, 2003

I
ANALYZE
CARTOONS


Soiled Meat

Hmm, a straight razor drags in my dough like a boot in wet mud. Is my dough too wet/soft or will a curved lame make that big of a difference?

Nabokoffin
Feb 2, 2003

The way of the world is to bloom and to flower and die but in the affairs of men there is no waning and the noon of his expression signals the onset of night.

curved lame might be the ticket. I find even with a really sharp implement I have to move it through the dough very quickly to keep it from sticking. I pinch ever so gently where I want to cut and put the blade through my fingers and pull very fast. Please don't hurt yourself.

Harsh Tokerman
Oct 25, 2004


Dipping your lame/serrated knife/regular knife in water can keep it from sticking while you slash the dough, too.

therattle
Jul 24, 2007

I'm a family man - I run a family business. This is my son and my partner, H.W.


Soiled Meat

Steve Yun posted:

Hmm, a straight razor drags in my dough like a boot in wet mud. Is my dough too wet/soft or will a curved lame make that big of a difference?

I find a sharp serrated knife (like my bread knife) works well with a lightly floured dough top. Better than a curved lame or razor blade.

bacalou
Mar 21, 2013




A pair of wet kitchen shears work fine, just need to tap down the tips they make in the middle.

breakfall87
Apr 22, 2004
ABunch7587's little bitch

I am a professional baker, and honestly, I find a curved lame the most difficult to use. I either use a naked razor blade or this badass tool:

http://www.webstaurantstore.com/vic...r/35340990.html


It used to be standard issue to Panera's bakers before they decided to cut costs. I've used mine for over a year and it still works awesome.

His Divine Shadow
Aug 7, 2000

I'm not a fascist. I'm a priest. Fascists dress up in black and tell people what to do.


I thought my straight razor performed best of them all but it's not really a cooking instrument so it was just a one off test. But putting a normal blade on a chop stick gave me a nice lame, I found that spraying it with oil made it a lot easier. Also made some bread tonight, tried both a naked razor blade and the chop stick lame, which I felt worked better:

bacalou
Mar 21, 2013




That is some fantastic-looking bread! I'm having trouble wrapping my brain around the scale, even though the razor gives decent context. Everything looks so massive and delicious. Just put them behind a window under a french flag and the illusion will be complete.

His Divine Shadow
Aug 7, 2000

I'm not a fascist. I'm a priest. Fascists dress up in black and tell people what to do.


Thanks, I did make the baguettes way too massive, I could have gotten 5 instead of 3 out of that amount of dough I think. Or if I had a bigger ovven, way longer ones.

subpar anachronism
Jan 15, 2005

I think I'll try drinkin' tonight.


His Divine Shadow posted:

I thought my straight razor performed best of them all but it's not really a cooking instrument so it was just a one off test. But putting a normal blade on a chop stick gave me a nice lame, I found that spraying it with oil made it a lot easier. Also made some bread tonight, tried both a naked razor blade and the chop stick lame, which I felt worked better:



This is beautiful bread! What recipe are you using?

His Divine Shadow
Aug 7, 2000

I'm not a fascist. I'm a priest. Fascists dress up in black and tell people what to do.


I mostly just winged it, which I tend to do when bread baking. I went for 64% hydration with this batch and I used a combination of regular flour (mainly this), graham and durum flour. No fancy ingredients just flour, salt, water and yeast.

This batch was made from (only got this in metric, sorry):
1kg flour
640g water
3 teaspoons of salt
A random amount of yeast, I just sprinkled it into the flour with the salt.

Kneaded it in my mixer for 9 minutes and let it rise in the bowl for an hour. I often keep dough in the oven with a bowl of boiling water. Then I punched the dough down, flattened it out and cut it into pieces which I then shaped into the baguettes and other small breads. I covered the pieces in flour towards the end of the shaping but not before because I didn't want to add too much flour into the dough and it was easily to handle without extra flour. Then I let it rise another hour under cover.

I sprinkled more flour on after I removed the covers, then I scored various shapes in the bread using my lame and into the oven at 230C for 15 minutes. I tossed in a glass of water on my pizza stone just before to add steam and once again halfway through. I need to buy a spray bottle for this step. I understand you can then spritz the bread directly too.

c355n4
Jan 3, 2007









Made some soft pretzel rolls. Now I need some beer and sausage.

MrYenko
Jun 17, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...


c355n4 posted:







Made some soft pretzel rolls. Now I need some beer and sausage.

I'll bring the beer and sausage. Holy gently caress those look good.

mindphlux
Jan 8, 2004

by R. Guyovich


His Divine Shadow posted:

I mostly just winged it, which I tend to do when bread baking. I went for 64% hydration with this batch and I used a combination of regular flour (mainly this), graham and durum flour. No fancy ingredients just flour, salt, water and yeast.

This batch was made from (only got this in metric, sorry):
1kg flour
640g water
3 teaspoons of salt
A random amount of yeast, I just sprinkled it into the flour with the salt.

Kneaded it in my mixer for 9 minutes and let it rise in the bowl for an hour. I often keep dough in the oven with a bowl of boiling water. Then I punched the dough down, flattened it out and cut it into pieces which I then shaped into the baguettes and other small breads. I covered the pieces in flour towards the end of the shaping but not before because I didn't want to add too much flour into the dough and it was easily to handle without extra flour. Then I let it rise another hour under cover.

I sprinkled more flour on after I removed the covers, then I scored various shapes in the bread using my lame and into the oven at 230C for 15 minutes. I tossed in a glass of water on my pizza stone just before to add steam and once again halfway through. I need to buy a spray bottle for this step. I understand you can then spritz the bread directly too.

a. how do you throw a glass of water on your pizza stone without it shattering
b. how do you transfer your shaped pieces to the stone without degassing
c. how much of a rise is there after you shape them

Thumposaurus
Jul 24, 2007



Roasted garlic sourdough fougasse made last night.

Le0
Mar 18, 2009

Rotten investigator!


Guys, today my bread making didn't go as planned.
I was doin a simple bread based on the recipe in the OP with a few modifications. I made it exactly the same as I usually do but for the second raise it did not go as high as usual.

This resulted in a way flatter bread than usual and also drier. What could cause this?

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PiratePing
Jan 3, 2007
Why is a pirate called a pirate? Because they arrr!

Thumposaurus posted:

Roasted garlic sourdough fougasse made last night.



That looks delicious, please tell me the recipe so I can garlic-bomb the house.

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