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Shnooks
Mar 24, 2007

I'M BEING BORN D:


Eeyo posted:

Other possibilities could be the dough is too dry or it's not rising enough. I'm a lazy so my dough doesn't really pass the "windowpane" test but it still comes out non-bricklike.

I'd say try starting it with less flour (maybe 5 cups) and only add more in when it sticks while kneading. Regular AP flour can definitely work in bread. Is it like Gold Medal flour or King Arthur's stuff?

Also it says to use warm water but I'd suggest just using barely lukewarm water. You can kill yeast with heat, but it will probably be ok to start them a little colder than suggested.

I don't know what it is off the top of my head but it isn't King Arthur. Should I be using KAF?

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Cymbal Monkey
Apr 16, 2009

Lift Your Little Paws Like Antennas to Heaven!


Shnooks posted:

I've made the King Arthur Flour Hearth Bread recipe 3 times now and each time my bread comes out like a brick. After my 2nd loaf I watched some videos of how to actually knead bread dough and how to do the window test. For my 3rd loaf I kneaded the dough for close to 20 minutes, maybe more, and barely got a decent window test.

So what gives? Could it be my flour potentially? I'm using regular AP flour.

Alternately, try proofing it. I know the recipe doesn't call for it, but that can give you a lighter loaf. And make sure you've got steam in the oven, otherwise a crust will form too quickly and trap the crumb.

Shnooks
Mar 24, 2007

I'M BEING BORN D:


I have steam in the oven, but I'll try proofing it. I was sifting the flour but maybe it came out to more than was needed.

artificial
Apr 10, 2005







I hadn't baked anything for a few years, but got the bug again recently. I bought the River Cottage Bread Book (which I love) and made some white roll type things. I'm really pleased with how they came out. I made a sponge last night, then all the other steps today. Can't wait to make more! And do some experimenting.

mich
Feb 28, 2003
I may be racist but I'm the good kind of racist! You better put down those chopsticks, you HITLER!


Wedding day bread for a friend. Just a basic sourdough boule.

The Midniter
Jul 9, 2001



mich posted:

Wedding day bread for a friend. Just a basic sourdough boule.



That is gorgeous and I'd pay like $10 at the supermarket for something like that. Great job!!

Cymbal Monkey
Apr 16, 2009

Lift Your Little Paws Like Antennas to Heaven!


mich posted:

Wedding day bread for a friend. Just a basic sourdough boule.



Spectacular! Love the slashes around the side.

Shnooks
Mar 24, 2007

I'M BEING BORN D:


Ok, I picked up some bread flour and want to try a simple poolish bread, but the KAF one calls for some fancy European flour that has less gluten content (11% to the bread flour's 12%), and I'm not sure how much of a difference that will make. I don't know enough about baking bread right now to really gently caress around. Can anyone recommend me their go to poolish bread?

Cymbal Monkey
Apr 16, 2009

Lift Your Little Paws Like Antennas to Heaven!


A 1% difference in gluten is basically irrelevant for practical purposes. Go nuts. If you're worried, toss a spoonful of AP in to dilute it.

Shnooks
Mar 24, 2007

I'M BEING BORN D:


Cymbal Monkey posted:

A 1% difference in gluten is basically irrelevant for practical purposes. Go nuts. If you're worried, toss a spoonful of AP in to dilute it.

Sweet! I'll see what I come up with then. I think I'll try this recipe because why not

Shnooks fucked around with this message at Jun 2, 2015 around 23:40

Cymbal Monkey
Apr 16, 2009

Lift Your Little Paws Like Antennas to Heaven!


Shnooks posted:

Sweet! I'll see what I come up with then. I think I'll try this recipe because why not

Let us know how you get on!

SymmetryrtemmyS
Jul 13, 2013

I got super tired of seeing your avatar throwing those fuckin' glasses around in the astrology thread so I fixed it to a .jpg

mich posted:

Wedding day bread for a friend. Just a basic sourdough boule.



I love the heart-shaped slash. That's an absolutely beautiful loaf.

Shnooks
Mar 24, 2007

I'M BEING BORN D:


Cymbal Monkey posted:

Let us know how you get on!

I finally got around to baking it last night and it went really well! It's not the fanciest thing in the world because I had to work with what I have, but it tastes really well and is the perfect texture. One thing I might have done in the future is just kneaded out some of the giant air bubbles but it's not a bad loaf.

I did make some changes - the recipe calls for doing the folding and proofing 4 times. I was going to be up until midnight baking bread if I did that, so I did it 3 times and then the final proof. When I got to the final proof it really only took 20 minutes until it felt ready. I don't have a sharp razor blade so my slashes look terrible, but nothing split open so it can't be that bad.

Working with a really wet dough is interesting without a dough scraper. I think that will be my next purchase.

It turned into uniloaf


Busted open. We need to get a serrated blade.

bony tony
Aug 9, 2013

an electric ghost painted in the colours of a dead moment




That looks super tasty.

A serrated blade also works really well for slashing your bread.

PatMarshall
Apr 6, 2009



I made some olive bread, pretty happy with how it came out.

Squashy Nipples
Aug 18, 2007



That looks delicious! I love olive bread.


What is the best way to get sesame seeds to stick to loaf of bread?

Thumposaurus
Jul 24, 2007



Squashy Nipples posted:

That looks delicious! I love olive bread.


What is the best way to get sesame seeds to stick to loaf of bread?

Egg wash, or just egg whites if you don't want the extra browning an egg wash will bring.

Cymbal Monkey
Apr 16, 2009

Lift Your Little Paws Like Antennas to Heaven!


I've just launched my first attempt at brioche, going in the oven later this evening. I'm quite excited. Also, the sourdough organisms in Oregon are far better than the ones in south west England, my new culture is growing like mad.

Shnooks
Mar 24, 2007

I'M BEING BORN D:


I wanted to try a brioche but I have a feeling all that butter is going to just make my kitchen an ice skating rink.

Cymbal Monkey
Apr 16, 2009

Lift Your Little Paws Like Antennas to Heaven!


Shnooks posted:

I wanted to try a brioche but I have a feeling all that butter is going to just make my kitchen an ice skating rink.

I'm doing the 85% butter brioche in The Bread Baker's Apprentice, there was indeed a lot of butter.

Shnooks
Mar 24, 2007

I'M BEING BORN D:


I'm going to attempt to make some pai bao this weekend using the tangzhong method. I have another recipe I'm following that doesnt require a bread mixer, though, probably a Hokkaido Milk Bread recipe which is essentially the same thing.

Shnooks fucked around with this message at Jun 20, 2015 around 22:44

Cymbal Monkey
Apr 16, 2009

Lift Your Little Paws Like Antennas to Heaven!


Shnooks posted:

I'm going to attempt to make some pai bao this weekend using the tangzhong method. I have another recipe I'm following that doesnt require a bread mixer, though, probably a Hokkaido Milk Bread recipe which is essentially the same thing.

That looks really interesting, I've never heard anything about tangzhong. Do let me know how it goes, sounds like it could be interesting incorporated into something like a ciabatta.

Shnooks
Mar 24, 2007

I'M BEING BORN D:


Cymbal Monkey posted:

That looks really interesting, I've never heard anything about tangzhong. Do let me know how it goes, sounds like it could be interesting incorporated into something like a ciabatta.

Of course. I tried it once before with her recipe for apple custard buns and it was kind of a flop, but that was before I knew anything about bread.

Cymbal Monkey
Apr 16, 2009

Lift Your Little Paws Like Antennas to Heaven!


Operation Brioche was as success! It's almost like a croissant, it's 85% butter. Heaven.

Happy Hat
Aug 11, 2008

He just wants someone to shake his corks, is that too much to ask??


Now make french toast with it...

Cymbal Monkey
Apr 16, 2009

Lift Your Little Paws Like Antennas to Heaven!


Happy Hat posted:

Now make french toast with it...

Why would I ruin such beautiful pastry like that?

Ishamael
Feb 18, 2004

You don't have to love me, but you will respect me.

Cymbal Monkey posted:

Why would I ruin such beautiful pastry like that?

You monster.

mindphlux
Jan 8, 2004

by R. Guyovich


I can't loving make bread. I tried yesterday and deflated it completely and misshaped the entire baugette when trying to get it off my peel and onto my stone. it's like literally the most frustrating thing ever. I 100% of the time end up with some lovely dense crumb that screams homemade "bread". I've read so many books on breadmaking cover to cover, improvised proof boxes with perfect temperature and humidity, everything. always dense crumb, ugly dusty brown exterior, and hours of work ending in complete frustration. I came close to dumping out my poolish, but I fed it today, maybe I'll try again later this week.

all I want is some bread that rivals what I'd get at a michelin starred restaurant, is that too much to ask?

argh /rant

Cymbal Monkey
Apr 16, 2009

Lift Your Little Paws Like Antennas to Heaven!


mindphlux posted:

I can't loving make bread. I tried yesterday and deflated it completely and misshaped the entire baugette when trying to get it off my peel and onto my stone. it's like literally the most frustrating thing ever. I 100% of the time end up with some lovely dense crumb that screams homemade "bread". I've read so many books on breadmaking cover to cover, improvised proof boxes with perfect temperature and humidity, everything. always dense crumb, ugly dusty brown exterior, and hours of work ending in complete frustration. I came close to dumping out my poolish, but I fed it today, maybe I'll try again later this week.

all I want is some bread that rivals what I'd get at a michelin starred restaurant, is that too much to ask?

argh /rant

Don't try baugettes, I find them to be far, far more trouble than they're worth (this applies to virtually all French things). The first success I really had with large-hole bread was a ciabatta. you shape those basically by tucking the sides under, it's really easy and I found the Bread Baker's Apprentice recipe with a biga worked really well.

Cymbal Monkey fucked around with this message at Jun 22, 2015 around 23:58

Rurutia
Jun 11, 2009


mindphlux posted:

I can't loving make bread. I tried yesterday and deflated it completely and misshaped the entire baugette when trying to get it off my peel and onto my stone. it's like literally the most frustrating thing ever. I 100% of the time end up with some lovely dense crumb that screams homemade "bread". I've read so many books on breadmaking cover to cover, improvised proof boxes with perfect temperature and humidity, everything. always dense crumb, ugly dusty brown exterior, and hours of work ending in complete frustration. I came close to dumping out my poolish, but I fed it today, maybe I'll try again later this week.

all I want is some bread that rivals what I'd get at a michelin starred restaurant, is that too much to ask?

argh /rant

I honestly think it's because the home made bread recipes are all too low in hydration for ease. The only bread I've made that is up to my personal standards was the 80% hydration bread. (And this the japanese milk bread which is eugh so good.)

Shnooks
Mar 24, 2007

I'M BEING BORN D:


Speaking of milk bread, I tried out the tangzhong and while the bread came out well the recipe I used blows. I used the Hokkaido Milk Bread recipe from The Fresh Loaf and I dunno I couldn't get the yeast to dissolve. It was all over the bread, which made it kind of bubbly on top and nowhere near as smooth as his. Probably next time I'll warm up the milk prior to putting it in the bread and let the yeast nom away for a bit before dumping it in.

Regardless it tasted delicious and I woke up from a deep sleep last night with a need to eat a piece of it.

Rurutia posted:

I honestly think it's because the home made bread recipes are all too low in hydration for ease. The only bread I've made that is up to my personal standards was the 80% hydration bread. (And this the japanese milk bread which is eugh so good.)

The 80% hydration bread I tried was a bitch to work with but it truly was the best bread I've ever made.

PatMarshall
Apr 6, 2009



mindphlux posted:

I can't loving make bread. I tried yesterday and deflated it completely and misshaped the entire baugette when trying to get it off my peel and onto my stone. it's like literally the most frustrating thing ever. I 100% of the time end up with some lovely dense crumb that screams homemade "bread". I've read so many books on breadmaking cover to cover, improvised proof boxes with perfect temperature and humidity, everything. always dense crumb, ugly dusty brown exterior, and hours of work ending in complete frustration. I came close to dumping out my poolish, but I fed it today, maybe I'll try again later this week.

all I want is some bread that rivals what I'd get at a michelin starred restaurant, is that too much to ask?

argh /rant

In addition to higher hydration, you might also try baking in a Dutch oven, I've been getting nicer results that way than I ever have baking without (that said I don't have a stone, but I find it difficult to get adequate steam in a home oven).

mindphlux
Jan 8, 2004

by R. Guyovich


Rurutia posted:

I honestly think it's because the home made bread recipes are all too low in hydration for ease. The only bread I've made that is up to my personal standards was the 80% hydration bread. (And this the japanese milk bread which is eugh so good.)

I just don't understand how you work with bread that is 80% hydration. I made a recipe for 65% hydration bread, and it was so sticky it was impossible to shape or knead. it just stuck to my cutting board and fingers and everything and I got really frustrated and added flour until I could handle it without it being a complete nightmare.

I'm almost wondering if less hydration is the key - like a 50% hydration might allow the dough to rise more and hold its own, and develop an airy gluteny structure without collapsing?

mindphlux
Jan 8, 2004

by R. Guyovich


that said, I just realized I did add a shitload of flour over my recipe, despite me thinking I was making a dough with good hydration. maybe that was part of my problem. but really, how do you make bread out of a goopy mess? how do you keep it sticking to whatever its proofing on, assuming you can even shape it? I tried both parchment paper and a shitload of semolina on the back of a sheet pan, and both basically didn't work very well. stick city.

mindphlux
Jan 8, 2004

by R. Guyovich


like look at this motherfucker : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OI-WstoakmQ

his poo poo isn't sticking to anything. yet it looks almost looser than the dough I ended up with after adding all my flour. wtf. I was using king authur flour, measurements all by weight according to the apprentice bread baker, which I've read cover to cover. I'm a good cook I swear

edit : he even has a wedding ring on. are you loving kidding me? HOW IS HIS poo poo NOT STICKING

mindphlux fucked around with this message at Jun 23, 2015 around 02:51

Premature
Dec 9, 2014

Shut your eyes, I don't want to get glitter in them.


Buglord

I have similar problems, usually with the dough sticking to the bench/board I'm kneading on. If I try to flour the bench the dough just eats it and sticks after about 5 turns anyway.
I can get better results if I use the kitchenaid but I like to knead from time to time, it can be relaxing. Until it sticks to EVERYTHING.

mich
Feb 28, 2003
I may be racist but I'm the good kind of racist! You better put down those chopsticks, you HITLER!


High hydration doughs start a really gloopy mess but you should be able to achieve some structure once you develop the gluten in the dough. Whether you are hand mixing or using a mixer, I really recommend doing a series of stretch and folds at 30 minute intervals for 2-3 hours during primary fermentation. That will really help develop structure in your dough. The bread I make most often is fermented at room temperature for 2-3 hours with the stretch and folds before going into the fridge for the rest of primary fermentation. (Stretch and fold: :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1timJlCT3PM)

Parchment paper definitely is the way to go to start, just slide the whole thing paper and all onto your stone/steel/whatever.

I also really recommend doing a boule to start so you can more easily cover it with a stainless steel bowl or such during the first part of baking in order to keep more steam in contact with the bread at first.

Submarine Sandpaper
May 27, 2007

ASK ME ABOUT HOW I GHOULISHLY CELEBRATE THE DEATH OF CHILDREN TO TEACH THEIR PARENTS "A LESSON"


That dude was getting ready for shaping so initial kneading would have already been complete. By the volume I'd assume that he used some type of mixer to kneed, rather than by hand. You mentioned 6x hydration giving you issue, which really shouldn't with even a little bit of flour on your hand (although he was dipping in water?) I'm guessing you are not working with the dough enough before you can assume you can handle it without sticking. He was also just folding the dough which can be done with a lightish touch. I used to always have my pizza doughs stick but now I just throw on the mixer walk away to make a drink or something, I have had no issues since.

By hand I'm not sure, I really hate kneading by hand. The above post will work, but you may also just need to keep working and working it until you have similar results. After kneading try to only work with your fingertips.

Submarine Sandpaper fucked around with this message at Jun 23, 2015 around 04:37

therattle
Jul 24, 2007

I'm a family man - I run a family business. This is my son and my partner, H.W.


Soiled Meat

I use a mixer so by the time it's kneaded it's lost the stickiness. In fact, that's one of my tests for sufficient kneading. For shaping I shape in a silicon or similar non-stick sheet with a bit if flour, and I then put it in a circular silicon baking sheet I've cut to size for the cloche dome. Once it's ready I slide it from the board it's resting on into the cloche base, still on the circular sheet.

This works very well for no-knead.

I am starting sourdough again but having little success in getting excellent bread. I need to get my starter healthy again, and check out Forkish.

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Happy Hat
Aug 11, 2008

He just wants someone to shake his corks, is that too much to ask??


mindphlux posted:

I can't loving make bread. I tried yesterday and deflated it completely and misshaped the entire baugette when trying to get it off my peel and onto my stone. it's like literally the most frustrating thing ever. I 100% of the time end up with some lovely dense crumb that screams homemade "bread". I've read so many books on breadmaking cover to cover, improvised proof boxes with perfect temperature and humidity, everything. always dense crumb, ugly dusty brown exterior, and hours of work ending in complete frustration. I came close to dumping out my poolish, but I fed it today, maybe I'll try again later this week.

all I want is some bread that rivals what I'd get at a michelin starred restaurant, is that too much to ask?

argh /rant

Ok...

Do the following...

Don't have a loving poolish... don't do all the fancy stuff - we need to take you back to the basics, and then develop from there...

So very, very basic bread...

What you're going to need are the following:
1. White flour (wheat), not any of the fancy stuff - just white wheat flour which is boring and dull - the kind that is bad for health - high in gluten (not king arthur or princess fairytinkleshoes or whatever the gently caress you have, just the most basic white flour).
2. Durum flour, plain old durum, nothing fancy
3. Brown ale (or any other ale)
4. Yeast (I assume that you have dry yeast, but if you have it fresh then it is better)
5. Sugar (white processed sugar - from sugar beets or from cane - doesn't matter)
6. Salt (not kosher - just fine table salt will do)

Ok - basic recipe.

Dump yeast and 30g sugar into a bowl - stir until it liquifies.
Dump 750g white flour and 250g durum in there
Dump 650g ale in there
Dump 30g salt in there

Set the stand mixer on lowest setting, and let it mix for 10 minutes.
Put a lid on the bowl - let it rise for 1 1/2 hours
Form boule on a piece of parchment (this will give you three-four of those - they should be the size of a good sized mammary) cover with a bowl of a fitting size - let it rice for 1 1/2 hours (it will now be a great big tit)

Heat your oven to 230*c

take your peel *under* the parchment and transfer the boule to the stone

Close oven - then reopen, dump 10cc of boiling (well - just boiling or somewhere in that general vicinity) in the bottom of the oven - not hitting your stone - close oven quickly.

Leave the oven for 20 minutes - if the bread is golden brown, then give it 5 minutes more.

If this doesn't produce a bread you enjoy, then you're beyond pedological approach, and should focus on something else than bread.

If it does - then your basic process is in order and you can begin to experiment.

e.g. - when you transferred your baguette to the peel - what was the baguette resting on? Flour hopefully - but what kind? White flour probably.. You should have used durum, as that wouldn't have been soaked as easily, and started sticking.

e.g. you allowed your baguette to rest on your peel - why did you do that - what is the material of your peel? Wouldn't you like a nice dry surface to transport on, rather than something that has been soaking up moisture, or where the baguette had a chance of sticking for after sitting for 20-40 minutes?

e.g. when shaping your bread - do you do so with floured hands? why? Why aren't your hands soaking wet - that will prevent the dough sticking better than floured hands, and then you can let it rest on top of a bed of flour afterwards...

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