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therattle
Jul 24, 2007

I'm a family man - I run a family business. This is my son and my partner, H.W.


Soiled Meat

Not a Step posted:

I bought some really cheap saltillo (basically just clay) tiles at Home Depot a few weeks ago for bread baking, and they've worked out pretty well. They were something like $1.50 each and two nicely fill my oven. They're not as nice as a real cloche oven but they've greatly improved my baking. Anyone still cooking on a baking sheet really should hit up the local building supplies store and grab some (unglazed!) ceramic tiles, its a huge leap in baking quality for cheap. Just make sure to thoroughly wash and then season the tiles with olive oil (basically just rub oil into the tile until it stops absorbing it, then bake it for a few hours) before you use them.

Are there any good rule of thumbs out there for how deeply and how many times you should slash your bread?

You should not use olive oil; get something with a higher smoke point.

As for slashing, hard to say other than trial and error. About 5mm deep. Number and placement, up to you.

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JackComa
Feb 9, 2012

Lifestyle choices


Ridiculous question time!

So I've recently seen in an airport a store selling a kit with recipe book + a frame of some sort, apparently it's used to make bread.

I have zero experience doing it but since seeing that thing, I've had urges... and from all the fun you guys seem to be having, I want in too!

So the question is, should I get the kit as a starter move, or should I skip it entirely and go DIY? I have no equipment, just a regular apartment-sized oven and some pans.

axolotl farmer
May 17, 2007

I had me a vision
there wasn't any television



Nap Ghost

Things you need to make bread:

-Bowl
-Sheet pan
-Oven

Pookah
Aug 21, 2008

Caw



axolotl farmer posted:

I put the bowl inside the oven and close the hatch. If you got an electric oven, turn on the light. Just remember this:

One click counter-clockwise: light turn on!

One click clockwise: welp,



Oh dear, that looks like it was super fun to clean up.

My oven has a really annoying feature - the knob for raising the temperature is just a free-turning one with no "clicking" type stages. It is also perfectly placed to catch in a teatowel used by a left-handed person to adjust things in the oven. So perfectly placed in fact, that I have on several occasions accidentally turned the temperature up to 250 degrees celcius without noticing until smoke started coming out of the oven.

axolotl farmer
May 17, 2007

I had me a vision
there wasn't any television



Nap Ghost

Pookah posted:

Oh dear, that looks like it was super fun to clean up.

Actually, once the oven cooled down, all the little pieces of plastic snapped off cleanly. Cheap bowl from ikea.

Thanks ikea, thikea.

Flipperwaldt
Nov 11, 2011

Won't somebody think of the starving hamsters in China?



JackComa posted:

apartment-sized oven
Neat! Better than the other way round, I guess.

I very much like the cheap anti-stick Bullar loaf tins from IKEA I bought a few years ago, for loaf-shaped bread. But you really don't need that (or much of anything) to make bread. My grandmother didn't even use a bowl to mix things in, she just made a volcano of flour on the table and mixed in the liquids gradually.

You can probably buy a lot of ingredients to experiment with for the price of that starter kit. That will teach you a lot more a lot quicker than reading some book. The internet has recipes aplenty.

mediaphage
Mar 22, 2007

Ricola-kun, tell me
about pizza cones!


Pookah posted:

Oh dear, that looks like it was super fun to clean up.

My oven has a really annoying feature - the knob for raising the temperature is just a free-turning one with no "clicking" type stages. It is also perfectly placed to catch in a teatowel used by a left-handed person to adjust things in the oven. So perfectly placed in fact, that I have on several occasions accidentally turned the temperature up to 250 degrees celcius without noticing until smoke started coming out of the oven.

None of my ovens with analog dials had clickers. No offense, but if this has happened "on several occasions", maybe you need to stop putting your towel there.

Pookah
Aug 21, 2008

Caw



mediaphage posted:

None of my ovens with analog dials had clickers. No offense, but if this has happened "on several occasions", maybe you need to stop putting your towel there.

I don't ever leave it there.

It happens because the dial is on the left side of the cooker, so that when I reach into it with my left hand wrapped in a towel, the loose-turning temperature knob occasionally catches in it. It's one of the irritations of being a leftie; devices are generally designed with the assumption you will be using them right-handed.

Revener
Aug 25, 2007

by angerbeet


axolotl farmer posted:

Thanks ikea, thikea.

What is bread? Science just doesn't know.

Flipperwaldt posted:

My grandmother didn't even use a bowl to mix things in, she just made a volcano of flour on the table and mixed in the liquids gradually.

This is how my family does it too, and it always struck me as terribly wasteful since there'd be flour everywhere afterword.


So I want to try my hand at sweet bread, but the last time I tried it I didn't get much rise, any pointers/recipes?

hyper from Pixie Sticks
Sep 28, 2004



Revener posted:

So I want to try my hand at sweet bread....any pointers?
Don't confuse it with sweetbreads.

mediaphage
Mar 22, 2007

Ricola-kun, tell me
about pizza cones!


Pookah posted:

I don't ever leave it there.

It happens because the dial is on the left side of the cooker, so that when I reach into it with my left hand wrapped in a towel, the loose-turning temperature knob occasionally catches in it. It's one of the irritations of being a leftie; devices are generally designed with the assumption you will be using them right-handed.

I'm down with this left-handed martyrism you're throwing, but as a certified southpaw I really never have any trouble.

Except for loving scissors sometimes. Also I flip the blade on the veggie peeler so my bf always complains when he goes to peel something.

Flipperwaldt
Nov 11, 2011

Won't somebody think of the starving hamsters in China?



Revener posted:

This is how my family does it too, and it always struck me as terribly wasteful since there'd be flour everywhere afterword.
You use the right amount of flour from the get go and you mop it all up with the ball of dough. If you've got an entire kitchen table at your disposal, there's really no excuse for there to be flour anywhere else (like the floor or whatever).

Maybe your family is messy people? Or maybe it's the fact that my grandmother had had almost fifty years of practice when I saw her do it like that.

It isn't inherently wasteful.

That said, I use a bowl, like every normal person.

mediaphage
Mar 22, 2007

Ricola-kun, tell me
about pizza cones!


Flipperwaldt posted:

You use the right amount of flour from the get go and you mop it all up with the ball of dough. If you've got an entire kitchen table at your disposal, there's really no excuse for there to be flour anywhere else (like the floor or whatever).

Maybe your family is messy people? Or maybe it's the fact that my grandmother had had almost fifty years of practice when I saw her do it like that.

It isn't inherently wasteful.

That said, I use a bowl, like every normal person.

Also even if you use too much, I've never had to scrape up more than a handful of flour afterwards, at most. At that level, flour's pretty cheap.

His Divine Shadow
Aug 7, 2000

I'm not a fascist. I'm a priest. Fascists dress up in black and tell people what to do.


axolotl farmer posted:

I put the bowl inside the oven and close the hatch. If you got an electric oven, turn on the light. Just remember this:

One click counter-clockwise: light turn on!

One click clockwise: welp,



I keep the light off, I just boil some water in the electric kettle and pour it into a pan and put that in as well, heat and moistness are created so the dough doesn't dry out either.

JackComa
Feb 9, 2012

Lifestyle choices


Flipperwaldt posted:

Neat! Better than the other way round, I guess.

I very much like the cheap anti-stick Bullar loaf tins from IKEA I bought a few years ago, for loaf-shaped bread. But you really don't need that (or much of anything) to make bread. My grandmother didn't even use a bowl to mix things in, she just made a volcano of flour on the table and mixed in the liquids gradually.

You can probably buy a lot of ingredients to experiment with for the price of that starter kit. That will teach you a lot more a lot quicker than reading some book. The internet has recipes aplenty.

I'm gonna face the unknown this weekend then, and will try to get some pics so you can see the resulting disaster

Kolodny
Jul 10, 2010



Challah challah get $

I had time earlier this week to put together my first challah, based on the recipe here. (incidentally, also my first kneaded bread). I'm pretty happy with how it turned out! As widely reported, it makes absolutely fantastic french toast

Happy Hat
Aug 11, 2008

He just wants someone to shake his corks, is that too much to ask??


Yesterday I discovered that using a 40:40:10:10 - tipo 00:garlic/horseradish mashed potatoes:rye:corn flour makes for an amazing pizza dough.

The corn flour was used for rolling and dusting! Hydration around 65%

The crusts were the thinnest I've ever made (and I make mine thin). The hardest part was keeping them from tearing! Wife stated that I might want to write down the recipe (she thinks that I write stuff down, but that would be counterintuitive).

A 60:40 flour:mash makes for an amazing bread too (you asked rattle).

Happy Hat
Aug 11, 2008

He just wants someone to shake his corks, is that too much to ask??


The reason for my discovery was that I didn't have enough tipo 00, and I was all out of durum too.. I need to go shopping!

Heatwizard
Nov 5, 2009



Reading through this thread made me give baking a shot.





Tastes pretty good, though I think I forgot the salt. I think I know someone with sourdough starter, I'd love to give that a shot.

TychoCelchuuu
Jan 2, 2012

This space for Rent.

If it tastes pretty good you probably didn't forget the salt. I enjoy bland foods but bread without salt is... lackluster.

The Doctor
Jul 8, 2007

The angels have my snatch

Fallen Rib

I made 80% hydration baguettes again (I bought a digital kitchen scale) and they came out vastly better than last time.

The one problem I continue to have is that I use a heavy whole wheat flour and it's just not the same as that super fine light white bread stuff and it just doesn't get as airy. It was much airier than my normal recipes and it got a great crust though, the taste of the pre-fermented biga/poolish is also really noticeable and is really tasty. I will say it tastes very salty to me though, I usually use maybe half the salt this recipe calls for and double or 2.5x the flour.

mediaphage
Mar 22, 2007

Ricola-kun, tell me
about pizza cones!


The Doctor posted:

I made 80% hydration baguettes again (I bought a digital kitchen scale) and they came out vastly better than last time.

The one problem I continue to have is that I use a heavy whole wheat flour and it's just not the same as that super fine light white bread stuff and it just doesn't get as airy. It was much airier than my normal recipes and it got a great crust though, the taste of the pre-fermented biga/poolish is also really noticeable and is really tasty. I will say it tastes very salty to me though, I usually use maybe half the salt this recipe calls for and double or 2.5x the flour.

Yeah for what it's worth, it probably just won't be, especially if you basically swap out white for WW. I haven't read it yet, but Peter Reinhart, who did the GWC favorite Bread Baker's Apprentice, also came out with a book on WW only recipes you may wish to look at.

The Doctor
Jul 8, 2007

The angels have my snatch

Fallen Rib

I will have to buy that book.

Just in case anyone wondered what my whole wheat results were:



therattle
Jul 24, 2007

I'm a family man - I run a family business. This is my son and my partner, H.W.


Soiled Meat

The Doctor posted:

I will have to buy that book.

Just in case anyone wondered what my whole wheat results were:




That looks terrific. Taste good?

The Doctor
Jul 8, 2007

The angels have my snatch

Fallen Rib

It was very good! Like I said before, my only complaint was that it was on the salty side for my taste,
would half next time.

E: also I'm stubborn and I bought some finer white bread flour to try it again.

The Doctor fucked around with this message at Dec 3, 2012 around 22:34

Xarb
Nov 26, 2000

Not happy.

That looks amazing.

What makes it so light and hole-y in the inside?

My staple bread is the no-knead bread from the no-knead thread which I love but it always comes out really dense.

I think that is part of the style but I do need to refine my 2nd rise time.

I tried to make a challah that was posted earlier in the thread hoping for some light-fluffyness but that didn't really turn out either.

therattle
Jul 24, 2007

I'm a family man - I run a family business. This is my son and my partner, H.W.


Soiled Meat

Xarb posted:

That looks amazing.

What makes it so light and hole-y in the inside?

My staple bread is the no-knead bread from the no-knead thread which I love but it always comes out really dense.

I think that is part of the style but I do need to refine my 2nd rise time.

I tried to make a challah that was posted earlier in the thread hoping for some light-fluffyness but that didn't really turn out either.
Generally, higher hydration makes for lighter bread, plus adequate leavening agent of course. The downside is that the higher the hydration the harder the dough is to work with, but experiment with adding a bit more water. Glad you're enjoying the no-knead, sorry it's dense. I don't find it so, so yeah, proper rising times and more water should help.

The Doctor
Jul 8, 2007

The angels have my snatch

Fallen Rib

Xarb posted:

That looks amazing.

What makes it so light and hole-y in the inside?

My staple bread is the no-knead bread from the no-knead thread which I love but it always comes out really dense.

I think that is part of the style but I do need to refine my 2nd rise time.

I tried to make a challah that was posted earlier in the thread hoping for some light-fluffyness but that didn't really turn out either.

Ironically, this loaf is actually much less airy than it should be because of the heavy flour, it's this airy because it's high hydration, and I believe using a pre-ferment might have something to do with it? Basically you make half the recipe the night before and it ferments and gets very bubbly in the fridge. It also doesn't get kneaded because it's so wet, it borders on being a batter and simply gets stretched and folded.

http://www.weekendbakery.com/posts/...ation-baguette/ Have a look at the air holes in the cross section on this page!

Xarb
Nov 26, 2000

Not happy.

Ah higher hydration makes sense, I should have guessed that as my lightest bread was some turkish bread I made a few weeks back and that was very sticky.

therattle posted:

Glad you're enjoying the no-knead, sorry it's dense. I don't find it so, so yeah, proper rising times and more water should help.
No knead(heh) to apologise, I didn't mean it in a bad way although I can see how my wording would lend to that impression. I actually like the density of it which is why I have kept going back to the recipe. I just want to expand my bread-making repertoire to other lighter/fluffier breads.

The Doctor posted:

Ironically, this loaf is actually much less airy than it should be because of the heavy flour, it's this airy because it's high hydration, and I believe using a pre-ferment might have something to do with it? Basically you make half the recipe the night before and it ferments and gets very bubbly in the fridge. It also doesn't get kneaded because it's so wet, it borders on being a batter and simply gets stretched and folded.

http://www.weekendbakery.com/posts/...ation-baguette/ Have a look at the air holes in the cross section on this page!
Craziness. I've been meaning to try Baguettes for ages. I think this will inspire me to do it sooner rather than later.

Paco de Suave
Sep 13, 2004
photographs of the best time you had
window smudged by the speed




I too was inspired to make some bread after reading this thread. I made the King Arthur easiest whatever bread and it came out pretty well -

Leper Residue
Sep 28, 2003

To where no dog has gone before.


So the last two nights I've tried to make bread using the NY Times recipe and my dough just won't rise.

The first night, I just threw the flour, salt and yeast in a bowl and then the water and mixed it. The second, I tried mixing the yeast with the water first.

I used two cups whole wheat flour and one cup regular flour. What obvious thing am I doing wrong? Is it the wheat flour?

Edit: I used half a teaspoon of yeast the second night.

Leper Residue fucked around with this message at Dec 5, 2012 around 19:30

Happy Hat
Aug 11, 2008

He just wants someone to shake his corks, is that too much to ask??


Leper Residue posted:

So the last two nights I've tried to make bread using the NY Times recipe and my dough just won't rise.

The first night, I just threw the flour, salt and yeast in a bowl and then the water and mixed it. The second, I tried mixing the yeast with the water first.

I used two cups whole wheat flour and one cup regular flour. What obvious thing am I doing wrong? Is it the wheat flour?

Edit: I used half a teaspoon of yeast the second night.

Maybe you killed the yeast with salt?

Featured Creature
May 10, 2004
Tomatoes

Happy Hat posted:

Maybe you killed the yeast with salt?

I am guessing this is what happened. Either that or your yeast is old/dead. Wake it up in some warm water, and see if it is bubbling on its own after 5-10 minutes to make sure its good. Then add that to the flour first, then add your salt.

WhoIsYou
Jan 28, 2009


Are you using instant yeast? Sometimes it's called Bread Machine Yeast. If you have the packets of active dry yeast, you'll need to double the amount you use. What temperature water are you using? Use water that's somewhere between room temp and body temp. The recipe calls for a very low percentage of yeast. which is reflected in the long fermentation time. Did you wait overnight? Using that much whole wheat flour will give you a heavier, denser loaf than all white flour, but you should still see and smell the yeast as the dough is rising.

Unless you're using fresh compressed yeast, it shouldn't be hurt by the salt.

Leper Residue
Sep 28, 2003

To where no dog has gone before.


I was using active dry yeast, with cold tap water. It sat around 15 hours, with nothing.

I'll try again tonight with room temperature water, more yeast and regular flour. I'll test the yeast first too before I waste more flour.

Also, should I use iodized salt or kosher? I don't think we even have any iodized in the place.

Happy Hat
Aug 11, 2008

He just wants someone to shake his corks, is that too much to ask??


Leper Residue posted:

I was using active dry yeast, with cold tap water. It sat around 15 hours, with nothing.

I'll try again tonight with room temperature water, more yeast and regular flour. I'll test the yeast first too before I waste more flour.

Also, should I use iodized salt or kosher? I don't think we even have any iodized in the place.

Just use salt-flavored salt!

After 15 hours something should have happened regardless of the amounts of yeast!

Mach420
Jun 22, 2002
Bandit at 6 'o clock - Pull my finger

Leper Residue posted:

I was using active dry yeast, with cold tap water. It sat around 15 hours, with nothing.

I'll try again tonight with room temperature water, more yeast and regular flour. I'll test the yeast first too before I waste more flour.

Also, should I use iodized salt or kosher? I don't think we even have any iodized in the place.

Keep in mind that Kosher salt is less dense than table salt, so you may want to add more kosher if the recipe calls for table. Also, kosher doesn't dissolve as easily into doughs because of the larger crystals, so regular table salt may actually be better unless you mix it into some water first.

I think that it's 1.5 units kosher : 1 unit table salt.

Thots and Prayers
Jul 13, 2006

A is the for the atrocious abominated acts that YOu committed. A is also for ass-i-nine, eight, seven, and six.

B, b, b - b is for your belligerent, bitchy, bottomless state of affairs, but why?

C is for the cantankerous condition of our character, you have no cut-out.

Grimey Drawer

Just wanted to drop by and say thanks! I started making my own bread right after the thread started. An ex left behind a stone bread pan so I've been using that and it's pretty nice, lucky break.

At first I made mine from whatever random flour I had around the house to now a whole wheat bread flour I get from my local coop. I live in a Big City so I welcome a lot of out of town guests and I always make a loaf for them. They really appreciate the gesture and the cost:benefit ratio is absurdly wonderful. Working with dough is relaxing and fun to share - people will gladly dive in if you tell them what to do.

So hey, it brings me joy - both in prep and eating. The skill strengthens friendships and relationships and saves me money at the same time! Thanks, bread thread!

(just a recent loaf going for the last rise)

Thots and Prayers fucked around with this message at Dec 6, 2012 around 05:15

therattle
Jul 24, 2007

I'm a family man - I run a family business. This is my son and my partner, H.W.


Soiled Meat

Zahgaegun posted:

Just wanted to drop by and say thanks! I started making my own bread right after the thread started. An ex left behind a stone bread pan so I've been using that and it's pretty nice, lucky break.

At first I made mine from whatever random flour I had around the house to now a whole wheat bread flour I get from my local coop. I live in a Big City so I welcome a lot of out of town guests and I always make a loaf for them. They really appreciate the gesture and the cost:benefit ratio is absurdly wonderful. Working with dough is relaxing and fun to share - people will gladly dive in if you tell them what to do.

So hey, it brings me joy - both in prep and eating. The skill strengthens friendships and relationships and saves me money at the same time! Thanks, bread thread!

(just a recent loaf going for the last rise)

This post makes me smile. The pleasure is mine!

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mediaphage
Mar 22, 2007

Ricola-kun, tell me
about pizza cones!


Leper Residue posted:

I was using active dry yeast, with cold tap water. It sat around 15 hours, with nothing.

I'll try again tonight with room temperature water, more yeast and regular flour. I'll test the yeast first too before I waste more flour.

Also, should I use iodized salt or kosher? I don't think we even have any iodized in the place.
There's no way you're killing your yeast with salt. If I haven't done it, and I screw up a lot, then I don't think you have. How old is your yeast? Even if it isn't expired, it does seem like there's something wrong with the yeast itself.

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