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therattle
Jul 24, 2007

I'm a family man - I run a family business. This is my son and my partner, H.W.


Soiled Meat

mediaphage posted:

There's no way you're killing your yeast with salt. If I haven't done it, and I screw up a lot, then I don't think you have. How old is your yeast? Even if it isn't expired, it does seem like there's something wrong with the yeast itself.
Yes, you'd need a shitload of salt, or water that was too hot. In the absence of those my money is on dead yeast.

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Leper Residue
Sep 28, 2003

To where no dog has gone before.


Yeah, I did the yeast test and the water got some bubbles so I thought it was ok but honestly I have no idea how many it was supposed to have, it was very little.

Another failure, I'm going to try again on sunday after I get more yeast and replace all the drat flour I've used.

keyboard vomit
Jun 23, 2012



Are you using the individual packets of yeast? I used those a few times, and after switching to the stuff in the little jar I got much better rises.

As for the bubbly-ness, when I proof my yeast I usually have good amount of foamy bubbles over my water

mediaphage
Mar 22, 2007

Ricola-kun, tell me
about pizza cones!


Leper Residue posted:

Yeah, I did the yeast test and the water got some bubbles so I thought it was ok but honestly I have no idea how many it was supposed to have, it was very little.

Another failure, I'm going to try again on sunday after I get more yeast and replace all the drat flour I've used.

So if you proof the yeast in water you should get a noticeable amount of gas and odor. If it was just a few bubbles, I'd be confident that your yeast is old. If you're going to be baking a lot, I'd do as the above suggested and just pick up a jar you can keep in the fridge.

Leper Residue
Sep 28, 2003

To where no dog has gone before.


Bleh. Yeah I was using the packet stuff. The difference in price is like a dollar for three packets vs. 8 for a little jar. Guess I get what I pay for.

Thanks for the help and advice. I don't plan on giving up yet.

The Doctor
Jul 8, 2007

The angels have my snatch

Fallen Rib

Leper Residue posted:

Bleh. Yeah I was using the packet stuff. The difference in price is like a dollar for three packets vs. 8 for a little jar. Guess I get what I pay for.

Thanks for the help and advice. I don't plan on giving up yet.

You can get yeast much more cheaply than this...those little jars are overpriced. Try looking for the biggish vacuum-sealed packs they usually sell to restaurants. There's a restaurant supply store near where I work and I got a pack for around $5.00, I've been using it for months and I bake bread every week.

Also I tried 80% hydration baguettes again, this time with white bread flour. I made a lot of errors but they were a big success any way. I accidentally halfed the yeast for my poolish and the dough stuck to my parchment and fell before going into the oven, but it puffed up like it should have any way and has a crumb very similar to the one on the site, pics soon.

WhoIsYou
Jan 28, 2009


Anyone who plans to make bread regularly without using a sourdough starter would do well to pick up a bag of SAF-Instant Red. You can mix it right in to the dry ingredients, and you don't have to use as much as the packets or jar.

mediaphage
Mar 22, 2007

Ricola-kun, tell me
about pizza cones!


Leper Residue posted:

Bleh. Yeah I was using the packet stuff. The difference in price is like a dollar for three packets vs. 8 for a little jar. Guess I get what I pay for.

Thanks for the help and advice. I don't plan on giving up yet.

Well, so, it's not necessarily you get what you pay for; you're almost certainly paying more for the amount of yeast you get in the packets than you would for the equivalent amount of yeast in the jar.

The Doctor posted:

You can get yeast much more cheaply than this...those little jars are overpriced. Try looking for the biggish vacuum-sealed packs they usually sell to restaurants. There's a restaurant supply store near where I work and I got a pack for around $5.00, I've been using it for months and I bake bread every week.

Also I tried 80% hydration baguettes again, this time with white bread flour. I made a lot of errors but they were a big success any way. I accidentally halfed the yeast for my poolish and the dough stuck to my parchment and fell before going into the oven, but it puffed up like it should have any way and has a crumb very similar to the one on the site, pics soon.

Yeast multiplies logarithmically, so even halving the yeast only delays the final levels by one generation or so, so it's really not that big of a deal.

WhoIsYou posted:

Anyone who plans to make bread regularly without using a sourdough starter would do well to pick up a bag of SAF-Instant Red. You can mix it right in to the dry ingredients, and you don't have to use as much as the packets or jar.



You don't use a ton of yeast in the jar, which can also be mixed into the ingredients, soooo?

Not that I'm against saving money, of course, just that my jar of instant yeast is super easy to pic up at the store.

The Doctor
Jul 8, 2007

The angels have my snatch

Fallen Rib

WhoIsYou posted:

Anyone who plans to make bread regularly without using a sourdough starter would do well to pick up a bag of SAF-Instant Red. You can mix it right in to the dry ingredients, and you don't have to use as much as the packets or jar.



This is the brand I use and I don't think it's hard to find. The place I get it from is essentially just a grocery store that also sells restaurant supplies. It is invaluable to me because it's a huge amount of yeast for vastly less cost and I can walk there from work in minutes. I can see how it might not be viable for someone who had to travel far out of their way but even then you could just get a few and you'd have yeast for...a long time.

Angstronaut
Apr 26, 2005

is there no shame?


How long will a bag of that SAF-Instant last until it goes bad/doesn't work?

TychoCelchuuu
Jan 2, 2012

This space for Rent.

Forever in the freezer I think.

Angstronaut
Apr 26, 2005

is there no shame?


TychoCelchuuu posted:

Forever in the freezer I think.

Oh cool, didn't know you could freeze the stuff. Thanks! I thought about buying some but I was afraid I'd waste most of it if I didn't use it often enough.

geetee
Feb 2, 2004

>;[

TychoCelchuuu posted:

Forever in the freezer I think.

Pretty much. I'm still working on a 3 year old bag from Costco.

Nebula
Dec 30, 2004



I can get 1LB bags of Fleischmann's Instant Yeast at my local grocery store and I just keep it in an airtight jar in my freezer. The bag looks like this:


I also have a container of SAF Gold for any sugary yeasted items I want to make, but I had to order that online.

rigeek
Jun 12, 2006


Just looking on the Restaurant Depot website.

A 2lb bag of Red Star Active Dry Yeast is $5.24 - I picked up that bag about 2 years ago and I'm just now running out of yeast.

The 1lb bag of SAF Instant pictured above is $2.98 - so that little supermarket jar for $8 is a huge ripoff.

Doh004
Apr 22, 2007

Mmmmm Donuts...

I mean, "ripoff" is a bit harsh. For people who aren't going to go through a little jar of yeast that quickly and don't care to have to store a big bag of yeast all the time it's not that bad. We're talking about not a lot of money over a long period of time.

If you're going to do a lot of baking where you'd use up that yeast frequently then sure it makes a lot more sense.

The Doctor
Jul 8, 2007

The angels have my snatch

Fallen Rib

The Doctor posted:

I will have to buy that book.

Just in case anyone wondered what my whole wheat results were:



And here are the results for the white:



It came out very well but not as well as it could have. Some changes/errors I made:

1. I accidentally halved the yeast in the poolish so I increased counter time from one hour to two to compensate before refrigerating for 17 hours. I don't know what, if any, difference this made.

2. I was pressed for time on the day-of so I reduced my resting periods from 45 minutes to 30 minutes.

3. It stuck to my parchment so it fell badly before it went into the oven. In the future I would just shift the parchment from the cutting board to the pizza stone and not attempt to remove it, or flour the parchment heavily ahead of time. Despite falling, it still became huge.

4. I halved the salt. It was way too salty the first time, the recipe calls for 12g, I used 6g or 7g. It tasted much better to me.

5. I buttered the crust after baking. I would not do this in the future. I did it because I thought I might have overcooked it (I didn't) and I didn't want it to be impossible to eat. It gave the outside a much softer, chewier texture whereas it could have been a really good bite like a baguette should have.

Overall, this bread is delicious. The inside is very airy (but could be even moreso), with a chewy texture and a sweet taste.

The Doctor
Jul 8, 2007

The angels have my snatch

Fallen Rib

DOUBLE POST.

I'm addicted to these 80% hydration baguettes. Well, my boyfriend is addicted to eating them and I am addicted to making them. I am about to shape another attempt in a few minutes, this time I followed the recipe exactly (including all timing) except for the salt content.

Doh004
Apr 22, 2007

Mmmmm Donuts...

The Doctor posted:

DOUBLE POST.

I'm addicted to these 80% hydration baguettes. Well, my boyfriend is addicted to eating them and I am addicted to making them. I am about to shape another attempt in a few minutes, this time I followed the recipe exactly (including all timing) except for the salt content.

Hey, I just looked through your history in this thread but I couldn't find the recipe for your 80% baguettes. Aside from googling, could you post your method/recipe or point me in the right direction?

The Doctor
Jul 8, 2007

The angels have my snatch

Fallen Rib

Doh004 posted:

Hey, I just looked through your history in this thread but I couldn't find the recipe for your 80% baguettes. Aside from googling, could you post your method/recipe or point me in the right direction?

http://www.weekendbakery.com/posts/...ation-baguette/ Right here! They have other recipes too, I'm going to look into their sourdough after this batch of baguettes.

Doh004
Apr 22, 2007

Mmmmm Donuts...

The Doctor posted:

http://www.weekendbakery.com/posts/...ation-baguette/ Right here! They have other recipes too, I'm going to look into their sourdough after this batch of baguettes.

Awesome. They seem like a lot of work so I'll have to make sure I have ample time to do it on the weekend. Thanks

The Doctor
Jul 8, 2007

The angels have my snatch

Fallen Rib

Another 80% attempt!





It's worth noting that one baked separately from the others and having it's own space made a biiig difference in the final product. The others that were closer together had much softer, less browned exteriors and did not become as airy as this. Evidently what happens in the oven is as important as what happens on the counter (and in the fridge).

Angstronaut
Apr 26, 2005

is there no shame?


That 80% looks absolutely delicious.

Made some rolls last night! Buttery, buttery rolls.

Had one for breakfast this morning. There's only one left, I want to save it so my SO can have it when he comes back from work but... I don't know how long I can hold out.


recipe: http://www.kingarthurflour.com/reci...ter-buns-recipe

therattle
Jul 24, 2007

I'm a family man - I run a family business. This is my son and my partner, H.W.


Soiled Meat

Angstronaut posted:

That 80% looks absolutely delicious.

Made some rolls last night! Buttery, buttery rolls.

Had one for breakfast this morning. There's only one left, I want to save it so my SO can have it when he comes back from work but... I don't know how long I can hold out.


recipe: http://www.kingarthurflour.com/reci...ter-buns-recipe
Good lord, those look delicious. Picture-perfect appearance too.

Leper Residue
Sep 28, 2003

To where no dog has gone before.


So I bought new flour and some yeast and sure enough my dough rose. It was really sticky in the morning, and would not retain any sort of shape though, and on the second rise it just flattened out.

It baked well enough, but it tastes like nothing, maybe a hint of yeast.

Edit: And I think I'm going to break a tooth on this crust.

jomiel
Feb 19, 2008

nya

Started a delayed-fermentation buttermilk bread dough last night from Peter Reinhart's Artisan Breads Every Day! Depending on the rise, might bake half tonight and half in a couple of days.

Rurutia
Jun 11, 2009


I'm going home to my kitchen tomorrow. Guess what the first thing I'm doing is?

(80% hydration/butter rolls/challah)

(in that order)

Sokani
Jul 20, 2006

Bison


Made some bread, used the Doctor's Recipe





I'm brand new to bread baking and this came out great. Fluffy, soft, and delicious. Time to make a sandwitch!

The Doctor
Jul 8, 2007

The angels have my snatch

Fallen Rib

Angstronaut posted:

That 80% looks absolutely delicious.

Made some rolls last night! Buttery, buttery rolls.

Had one for breakfast this morning. There's only one left, I want to save it so my SO can have it when he comes back from work but... I don't know how long I can hold out.


recipe: http://www.kingarthurflour.com/reci...ter-buns-recipe

Yeah these look amazing. Great job, I would not be allowed to have something like this in my house, it would be devoured in moments.

Sokani, that looks awesome! Nice braiding, it's so puffy and pretty.

you ate my cat
Jul 1, 2007



I was so excited--I got a new oven, because my last one held a temperature so poorly that everything got messed up. I spent a couple hours making some challah, braiding it, caring for it. I set the timer on the oven for an hour for the final rise. It beeps, I stop it, I put the bread in, and I set it for 20 mins to go check it.

I get there, the bread is huge. Like way more than normal oven spring. Nothing smells like bread, and there's no color on it. I check the thermometer I have in there, and it's like 100*.

I somehow managed to stop the bake process when I set the timer. I put two beautiful loaves of bread into a lukewarm oven, and they've just been sitting there raising or some poo poo.

I turned the heat back on, because that'll make it way easier to get off the pan. But I know I'm not going to enjoy it.

The Doctor
Jul 8, 2007

The angels have my snatch

Fallen Rib

you ate my cat posted:

I was so excited--I got a new oven, because my last one held a temperature so poorly that everything got messed up. I spent a couple hours making some challah, braiding it, caring for it. I set the timer on the oven for an hour for the final rise. It beeps, I stop it, I put the bread in, and I set it for 20 mins to go check it.

I get there, the bread is huge. Like way more than normal oven spring. Nothing smells like bread, and there's no color on it. I check the thermometer I have in there, and it's like 100*.

I somehow managed to stop the bake process when I set the timer. I put two beautiful loaves of bread into a lukewarm oven, and they've just been sitting there raising or some poo poo.

I turned the heat back on, because that'll make it way easier to get off the pan. But I know I'm not going to enjoy it.



So...your bread is huge? Don't worry about it, just turn the heat back on and bake it until it's browned as usual.

ToxicSlurpee
Nov 5, 2003




Pillbug

Here's a recipe I've been using that has become pretty popular among people I know. I take it to gatherings and Thanksgiving dinners and bake my best friend a loaf like every other week or so, aside from baking it for myself because holy poo poo is it good.

As an aside, after learning how to bake, I have trouble eating store-bought bread now. Fresh baked, hand-made bread is seriously like the best thing ever.

Anyway, this is a slight modification of a recipe I got off of the internet like four years ago. I lost the original and don't remember where I got it from (oops) but this is what I use now.

3 - 4 cups of whole wheat flour
(note: stone ground, coarse flour makes for heavier bread, while finer stuff makes for a less heavy bread. White flour can be used but, sorry...I think white flour sucks. Weet 4 lyfe)
1 cup ground flax seed meal (Bob's Red Mill sells it if you can't find it anywhere)
1 tbs yeast
1 tbs oil
1/8 cup sugar
(I use 3/4 olive oil and 1/4 sesame seed oil because loving yum)
1/2 to 1 tsp salt
(I use sea salt)
(one time I accidentally put a whole tsp in and it turned out fine so sometimes I use extra salt on purpose)
2 cups water

OK, the production process is pretty standard. Prime the yeast in the water. I let it sit for like 15 minutes. Then mix 1 cup of flour and everything else in until it's evenly mixed. Add flour by the half cup until you have kneadable bread dough. The total should usually be somewhere between 3 and 4 cups but I've had it go as high as 5. Then, dump some flour on your counter, flour up your hands, and knead it for 15 minutes. Personally, I don't like bread machines. Never used one. Hand kneading is the way to go.

Anyway, I bake this in a bread pan though I imagine you could shape it and do other stuff with it. I just usually grease me up a nice bread pan, cram the dough in, and make myself a nice, lovely loaf-shaped loaf. Never shaped it into rolls or whatever but the dough has a consistency that I imagine would work for that. Let it rise for 50 minutes to an hour, then bake it at 350 degrees (Fahrenheit, I don't know what that is in C) for 40 to 45 minutes. When it's done, it will sound hollow when you tap it.

This stuff is actually pretty easy to make and is just plain amazing.

Pro tip: try garlic salt instead of regular salt.

Devoyniche
Dec 21, 2008


Does anyone have a concrete list of how to convert to and from instant yeast for fresh/cake or active dry yeast? I bought one of those 1 lb bags of instant yeast, but I know a lot of recipes I usually use call for active dry and I have a family recipe that calls for cake yeast (one of my great-grandmothers was apparently the owner of a bakery around the turn of the century and my grandmother wants me to make her bread for Christmas). I read in one of Peter Reinhart's books that there is a conversion, but I had only checked the book out from the library and had to return it.

Soup in a Bag
Dec 4, 2009


Reinhart's The Bread Baker's Apprentice has this formula:

100% fresh yeast = 40-50% active dry yeast = 33% instant yeast

mediaphage
Mar 22, 2007

Ricola-kun, tell me
about pizza cones!


Am I the only one who never measures yeast? I just...pour a bunch in. It's all log growth that you can just figure out when something looks, you know, done.

therattle
Jul 24, 2007

I'm a family man - I run a family business. This is my son and my partner, H.W.


Soiled Meat

mediaphage posted:

Am I the only one who never measures yeast? I just...pour a bunch in. It's all log growth that you can just figure out when something looks, you know, done.
If I'm following a recipe I generally measure. When I'm improvising I, well, improvise. For my usual no-knead I use 1/4 tsp. if there is a flour or ingredient that retards rising I'll add more, up to 1/2tsp in total. If making a kneaded bread i just toss in about 1tsp but am not too bothered about exactitude.

Rurutia
Jun 11, 2009


mediaphage posted:

Am I the only one who never measures yeast? I just...pour a bunch in. It's all log growth that you can just figure out when something looks, you know, done.

It's the only ingredient I don't weigh. I still use a tablespoon spoon because I need to dirty a spoon anyways, but it's usually pretty rough.

Unrelated, my boyfriend threw out my entire quart of yeast that was in the freezer for good knows what reason. But I've been wanting to calculate relative "hydration" of that challah ingredient breakdown you posted and alter it for 80% hydration and see how it goes.

Rurutia fucked around with this message at Dec 15, 2012 around 16:25

mediaphage
Mar 22, 2007

Ricola-kun, tell me
about pizza cones!


therattle posted:

If I'm following a recipe I generally measure. When I'm improvising I, well, improvise. For my usual no-knead I use 1/4 tsp. if there is a flour or ingredient that retards rising I'll add more, up to 1/2tsp in total. If making a kneaded bread i just toss in about 1tsp but am not too bothered about exactitude.

The reason I don't bother is because after a few generations, how much you use at the start is utterly insignificant. I honestly do not think it matters past a certain point, though I guess I should run some tests.

WhoIsYou
Jan 28, 2009


Yeast cells take a couple hours to reproduce once. They also need oxygen, so if you aren't doing a long preferment and regularly incorporating air, it doesn't come into play. The amount you start with will determine how fast the dough ferments. You can get better flavor from your bread with a longer ferment in the mid-70s. Using a smaller amount lets you get more flavor before too much carbon dioxide is released. Also, measuring the yeast will give a more consistent loaf of bread.

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overdesigned
Apr 10, 2003

We are compassion...


Lipstick Apathy

mediaphage posted:

The reason I don't bother is because after a few generations, how much you use at the start is utterly insignificant. I honestly do not think it matters past a certain point, though I guess I should run some tests.


I'd never really thought of it that way--assuming it's evenly distributed, that makes sense to me.

Also I made some bread today, using this recipe:



I scaled it to the 4 cups of AP flour I had remaining in my pantry and made two (unevenly sized) loaves.



Crust is great, crumb is a bit dense and chewy, but considering it's a no-knead that didn't sit in my fridge for days, I think it's good. I like chewy anyway.

Overall I'm happy. Yay bread.

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