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Jeb! Repetition
Dec 24, 2012

Ask me about Briar Rose and Chicken Chaser.


baquerd posted:

I think a little of this is pretty normal, particularly for lower hydration doughs. If it were to start grinding, smoking, or halting, that would be a big concern.

Okay, thanks.

By the way this is what I made (with molasses) and it turned out great https://www.kingarthurflour.com/rec...at-bread-recipe

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Suspect Bucket
Jan 14, 2012

SHRIMPDOR WAS A MAN
I mean, HE WAS A SHRIMP MAN
er, maybe also A DRAGON
or possibly
A MINOR LEAGUE BASEBALL TEAM
BUT HE WAS STILL
SHRIMPDOR


Fun experiment time, made some dough with what might be KA white whole wheat, might be a mix, or might be anything else. Someone (mom) keeps mixing flour without telling me. So the pizza dough for tonight is getting a regular rise punch rise knead bake, the other half is getting a rise punch 24 hours in the fridge rise, knead then bake for a calzone. Reports as they come.

Murgos
Oct 21, 2010


I salute you, nerdy bread man!

Jeb! Repetition
Dec 24, 2012

Ask me about Briar Rose and Chicken Chaser.


Is there a video of the poke test?

Happiness Commando
Feb 1, 2002
$$ joy at gunpoint $$



nwin posted:

Speaking of...good pretzel recipe anyone?
Alton Brown's but make them with lye instead of baking soda

you ate my cat
Jul 1, 2007



I'm looking for some thoughts on bagels. I've been experimenting with making my own, and while I'm much closer to what I'm picturing, I still feel like the insides are much too soft. When I cut open a bagel from one of the local bagel shops, the interior has a fairly tight crumb, is doughy, and is nice and firm. If I press on it, it resists nicely. When I cut open one of mine, the inside has a lovely open crumb that I'd like in my regular bread, and it's quite soft. While this is nice, I'm not sure if this is what I'm really going for in bagels.

I'm following Peter Reinhart's recipe from The Bread Baker's Apprentice. I'm using KA bread flour, and I've experimented with bumping the gluten content to around 17% with vital wheat gluten, which I thought came out much more nicely. I also notice that mine are swelling much more than I would expect during the boil phase and again during the oven spring. I'm shaping them with the stretch and wrap method, and I'm borrowing a trick from Cooks Illustrated where you twist the log of dough to increase the exterior tension.

So what I have are a few questions:
- Are mine too soft, or do I just not know what a 'true' bagel is like inside?
- Has anyone had experience with off flavors caused by boiling with baking soda? I can't tell where a slight off note is coming from.
- Any good shaping tips or pitfalls I might be running into?
- What's your favorite unusual bagel topping? I'm looking for new things to try.

Submarine Sandpaper
May 27, 2007

ASK ME ABOUT HOW I GHOULISHLY CELEBRATE THE DEATH OF CHILDREN TO TEACH THEIR PARENTS "A LESSON"


I'd point to your fermentation time if you're getting open crumb at ~55% hydration. How's your color post bake and for the overnight are you using DMP?

- Very fresh bagels, in my experience, are quite soft with a lot of the chew coming from the crust (comparatively). Check if the crumb behaves how you expect 8 hours and a day after baking. How much and how are you kneeding? Where are you at as a good fresh bagel is hard to find i.e. Einstein is popular here but imho poo poo.
- I use Lye now but you may want to bake your baking soda or throw in some molasses (not sure how effective this actually is)
- practice
- parbake then pizza toppings

Mr. Squishy
Mar 22, 2010

A country where you can always get richer.

Has anyone made a Russian black bread? I was looking up recipes and was surprised at the variety of things that go in them.

Stringent
Dec 22, 2004

The internet is the universal sewer.


Mr. Squishy posted:

Has anyone made a Russian black bread? I was looking up recipes and was surprised at the variety of things that go in them.

I've made the King Arthur recipe, it was good. Looked like this:

Suspect Bucket
Jan 14, 2012

SHRIMPDOR WAS A MAN
I mean, HE WAS A SHRIMP MAN
er, maybe also A DRAGON
or possibly
A MINOR LEAGUE BASEBALL TEAM
BUT HE WAS STILL
SHRIMPDOR


Bagels are mysteries best left to the shamans residing in the New York area.

you ate my cat
Jul 1, 2007



Submarine Sandpaper posted:

I'd point to your fermentation time if you're getting open crumb at ~55% hydration. How's your color post bake and for the overnight are you using DMP?

- Very fresh bagels, in my experience, are quite soft with a lot of the chew coming from the crust (comparatively). Check if the crumb behaves how you expect 8 hours and a day after baking. How much and how are you kneeding? Where are you at as a good fresh bagel is hard to find i.e. Einstein is popular here but imho poo poo.
- I use Lye now but you may want to bake your baking soda or throw in some molasses (not sure how effective this actually is)
- practice
- parbake then pizza toppings

I'm not super happy with the color, to be honest. I feel like it takes them longer to pick up a nice brown than I would like, and they generally end up paler overall. There's also a slight yellow tinge, which I attribute to the boiling - the water is a dark yellow/brown color after boiling a dozen. DMP = diastatic malt powder? I somehow misordered from King Arthur and got malt syrup instead and have been using that.

To the fermentation time, the recipe has a 2 hour sponge, a 20ish minute rest before forming, and then another rest before putting them in the fridge overnight. He calls for a float test before fridging them which I have been skipping as my bagels typically float immediately. I'm honestly not sure what purpose this is serving - if they're proofing overnight anyway, I'm not clear on what I'm going for before putting them in. I have been machine kneading for ~6 minutes and then by hand as needed, usually a minute or two.

I'm in the DC area, and have tried most (all?) of the local bagel shops at one time or another. I'll eat an Einsteins bagel, but they're so different from everything else I can get down here that I would prefer to get something else.

Submarine Sandpaper
May 27, 2007

ASK ME ABOUT HOW I GHOULISHLY CELEBRATE THE DEATH OF CHILDREN TO TEACH THEIR PARENTS "A LESSON"


Get the DMP and bake your soda or use lye. You'll get better color with both. Sounds like your crumb is actually good, I look for https://www.google.com/search?q=bar...w=2560&bih=1334

They opened one up only 40 mins away so that's a weekend trip. ty thread

pantsfree
Oct 22, 2012


I recently moved house and stopped baking for a few weeks. My starter spent most of the time in the fridge and got a couple of feeds when I remembered it existed.

Now Iím settled and want to bake again, but despite daily feeding for a week, dumping and replacing 50/50 rye/water, and it being nice and warm, itís still really really sluggish to ferment. Previously it would almost overflow its jar within 6-8 hours, now thereís some activity, but not much, and it doesnít seem to really be changing dramatically in smell/appearance.

Is there anything I can or should do, or do I just keep feeding it until it bounces back?

Thumposaurus
Jul 24, 2007



Just keep feeding it. It'll come back.
My starter is going on 10 years old and I forget about it in the fridge all the time. A day or two of feeding and it's back to normal again.

Shame Boner
Jun 1, 2004



Thanks pantsfree for the reminder that it's been four or five weeks since I've fed my starter. The last time I had neglected my starter for about as long, I spent a week letting it build strength up, then baked two of my best loaves yet. This page needs more pictures; apologies for the converging lines, I was in a hurry since I had company over:



Both loaves were batard and I got the chance to use the rattan proofing basket my wife got me for my birthday. The other loaf was proofed in an oval-shaped bowl lined with a kitchen towel. After using both proofing vessels side by side, I really prefer the basket; the dough seemed to have more moisture drawn out and had a superior crust. In case anyone is curious, this is the same ~75% hydration recipe I've been grinding for experience with ~82% bob's artisan bread flour, 12% whole wheat, 6% dark rye.

Murgos
Oct 21, 2010


I know just enough to identify that the rough dome shape of large bubbles in the crumb of the right hand loaf indicates some kind of process flaw. I think.

Can anyone help clue me in as to what causes that?

Submarine Sandpaper
May 27, 2007

ASK ME ABOUT HOW I GHOULISHLY CELEBRATE THE DEATH OF CHILDREN TO TEACH THEIR PARENTS "A LESSON"


usually those holes represent under-fermentation but the walls are looking good, the crust has blisters, and the crumb well evenly dispersed so one of: an unlucky cross section, a not so perfect final shaping, the dough stuck to the proofing container when being transferred (probably the kitchen towel loaf) messing up the CO2's distribution, or a too shallow of a score. I'd lean towards the kitchen towel causing it because that's why I don't use them anymore for fridge proofed high hydration dough.

Shame Boner
Jun 1, 2004



Thanks for the critique. That was definitely the kitchen towel loaf in the cross-section. I realized when I posted that I never took a cross section of the basket loaf. I recall scoring those loaves deeper than normal but at a shallower angle (practically flat). I'm also just bad at shaping and maybe part of that it's because I'm cutting my teeth on a high hydration recipe and I need to play with the moisture or try an easier-to-handle one. The dough almost always sticks like crazy on my wood cutting board.

At any rate I was happy to see a more open crumb than I usually do and the crust was delicious as usual. What causes the transverse "tears" on the crust of the overhead (basket proofed) loaf? I gather that it didn't have enough room to expand at some critical point, but is there a usual suspect?

Submarine Sandpaper
May 27, 2007

ASK ME ABOUT HOW I GHOULISHLY CELEBRATE THE DEATH OF CHILDREN TO TEACH THEIR PARENTS "A LESSON"


Yeah those tiny rips are due to a lack of scoring. It's surprising how much you can cut a batard.

Stringent
Dec 22, 2004

The internet is the universal sewer.


I've very nearly got my adaptation of King Arthur's Russian black bread recipe to sourdough dialed in. Didn't get this one mixed as as uniformly as I should have, but the flavor and texture were quite good.


Jeb! Repetition
Dec 24, 2012

Ask me about Briar Rose and Chicken Chaser.


Stringent posted:

I've very nearly got my adaptation of King Arthur's Russian black bread recipe to sourdough dialed in. Didn't get this one mixed as as uniformly as I should have, but the flavor and texture were quite good.




Gotdam

Murgos
Oct 21, 2010


Stringent posted:

I've very nearly got my adaptation of King Arthur's Russian black bread recipe to sourdough dialed in. Didn't get this one mixed as as uniformly as I should have, but the flavor and texture were quite good.




All right, now I know what I am doing next weekend.

Stringent
Dec 22, 2004

The internet is the universal sewer.


Overproofed due to timing issues, but still perfectly edible.


yoshesque
Dec 19, 2010



Been getting into sourdough recently. I think I've still got problems with my technique because I get not-so-great oven spring and my slashes don't really open up much, which to me means I'm not shaping the dough correctly. I've had the most luck with lower hydration doughs (~65%) but I want to get jiggy with the jiggly.


Sourdough pain naturel (65%)


San Francisco Sourdough (65%)



Tartine style bread (69%)



Walnut and cranberry sourdough (86%)

I can't complain, because it's still good bread. It's just not pornographic bread.

Stringent
Dec 22, 2004

The internet is the universal sewer.


Are you cooking in a dutch oven?

yoshesque
Dec 19, 2010



I found transferring the dough to the dutch oven to be quite difficult, and the oven spring was roughly the same as I was getting with my current setup, which is a tray with boiling water to create steam in the oven, then baking on a preheated cast iron pan. Although it turns out that I was baking with the grill up until yesterday, which explains why my tops were browning so quickly I'm still learning my oven though, I'll give the DO method another go tonight, I've got more boules retarding in the fridge.

Stringent
Dec 22, 2004

The internet is the universal sewer.


I've got a combo cooker so the method would be a little different for a straight dutch oven, but it should transfer OK. The way I'd do a transfer is to turn the dutch oven upside down and place it on your banneton. Then you can flip the whole thing over and just pull out the banneton. If the dough isn't separating cleanly from the banneton just use more rice flour next time. On my combo I follow the same procedure but into the fry pan portion.

Might be a bit tricky the first few times, but it's probably still easier than handling the dough directly.

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Shame Boner
Jun 1, 2004



Does anyone else have problems with the bottom crust getting a little overdone? I've used a dutch oven but started using a combo cooker exclusively with the same result, consistently. I bake with the rack in the dead center of the oven and wonder if raising the rack a little or putting a cookie sheet on a separate rack immediately below will help.

I can't test a fix now because I'm nursing my starter back to health after forgetting it in the fridge for some 6 - 8 weeks, then taking it out to warm up and feed, only to forget it for another couple days on the counter

Edit: and speaking of the Lodge combo cooker, they're on sale at Amazon for $27. Average is about $35.

Shame Boner fucked around with this message at Jun 22, 2018 around 18:51

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