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I got a Kenwood Major 10 years ago and it's still with me today and working fine, my mom also has a Kenwood from the 1970s. Though I think I made the wrong choice. It was between a Kenwood or an "Ankarsrum Assistent", though I think I will remedy this by looking for a vintage Swedish made Electrolux Assistent instead. They are really nice for breaddough kneading.
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Aug 21, 2019 08:17
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Anyone looking for a mixer should check this out it ends today but you might be able to get it cheap. https://www.shopgoodwill.com/Item/73992678
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Aug 21, 2019 12:10
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His Divine Shadow posted:I got a Kenwood Major 10 years ago and it's still with me today and working fine, my mom also has a Kenwood from the 1970s. Though I think I made the wrong choice. It was between a Kenwood or an "Ankarsrum Assistent", though I think I will remedy this by looking for a vintage Swedish made Electrolux Assistent instead. They are really nice for breaddough kneading. Ankarsrum, Electrolux, and a few other brands are all the same mixer, made by the same people. The original stand mixer ever made was an Ankarsrum. While you did unfortunately make the wrong decision, vintage Kenwoods are nice too.
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Aug 21, 2019 21:27
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I had been making and enjoying the No-Knead bread for several years, but I was itching to get into sourdough. So I’m not sure if there’s any interest but here is how my sourdough experiments have gone over the past few months. Step 1 was getting a starter going. I had tried once before, and had failed to get anything but a foul smelling jar of gunk that seriously smelled like nail polish remover. Not great. I chalked that up to the low temperatures of winter and decided to try again this spring. I used this article as the basis for my starter: 7 Easy Steps to Making An Incredible Sourdough Starter But after 7 days, it was still barely rising:  I couldn’t figure it out, so I decided to change the water to bottled. No difference. I thought maybe I needed organic flour, but I decided to check my bag of AP flour first. And that was when I realized I had grabbed the wrong red bag of flour every time.  Self-rising flour. Why do I even own this? But now at least I knew what the problem was. I started from scratch again, and this time I was seeing better rise and fall, but still at 7 days it wasn’t great. I decided to give it a few more days, and then suddenly it caught on and started working great. The smell changed from an acrid one to a very tasty bread-dough smell with a hint of tang, and we were off and running.  Now I had to learn about the different steps, which were mostly new to me. If it is new to you, here is a simplified version of this process: Step 1: The night before the bread-making, I created a levain, which is just a second jar of starter with a slightly different ratio of existing starter to flour and water. Step 2: Autolyse is just mixing the flour and water together and letting it sit for an hour. Step 3: Mixing together the levain, the autolyse and some salt creates the dough Step 4: Bulk fermentation is the process of letting the dough rise at room temperature. At regular intervals you fold the dough to help it build structure. Step 5: Shaping is where you...shape the dough into a bread shape and put it in a basket Step 6: Cold fermentation is where you stick the basket in the fridge overnight. And then you score it and bake! It’s actually pretty straightforward once you have done it a couple times. But it can be finicky. So after all those steps, I got my first loaf. It looked great!  But as it was cooling I read the article about how King Arthur recalled all that flour for e.coli. With a sinking feeling I checked the code on my bag, and sure enough:  It would probably be fine. It cooked long enough, that's for sure. But I decided it was not worth the risk to feed it to my kid. Before I gave this to some grateful birds, I checked out the crumb. Hmm. Not good crumb:  This is what they call “fool’s crumb”. Basically big holes and tunnels that happen in bread that is made from under-fermented or underworked dough. So I made some changes to the next round, and added a slap-and-fold to the beginning of my bulk. Basically, smacking the hell out of the dough before setting it to rest, to hopefully knock the big air tunnels out of it. I also changed the length of time on my levain and my rise, and my flour ratio, to attack it from multiple angles. I saw better results, but I still wanted more. Getting closer:   Finally, I changed my levain rise time, and changed the flour mix in the levain, I added spelt flour for some extra flavor. This time it really worked great.   Now we’re talking. Since that loaf I have been tweaking the recipe and times but nothing major, and have had continued success. Here is the recipe I have ended up with: Levain – 12 hr rise 50 g starter 40g AP flour 40g whole wheat flour 80g water Dough 748g bread flour 110g wheat flour 49g spelt flour 691g water 16g kosher salt (diamond) 184g levain 1. Autolyse 1 hr 2. Bulk ferment 7 hrs (1 slap and fold at the beginning, then fold every 30 minutes, 3 times and then let rest) 3. Shape into 2 loaves, place in banneton and then in sealed plastic bags 4. Cold ferment 16 hrs in fridge 5. Preheat dutch oven to 500 for 1 hr 6. Bake at 475 for 20 min with lid on 7. Bake at 450 for 30 min with lid off The final internal temp should be right around 210.  I have also made some great sourdough cookies and sourdough waffles with the leftover starter, I can share those recipes if anyone is interested. EDIT: Homemade sourdough, lightly toasted, with a little butter, some avocado, and caprese salad on top. Thank me later. Ishamael fucked around with this message at 03:27 on Aug 22, 2019 |
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Aug 22, 2019 03:25
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Ishamael posted:I had been making and enjoying the No-Knead bread for several years, but I was itching to get into sourdough. So I’m not sure if there’s any interest but here is how my sourdough experiments have gone over the past few months. That looks great. Well done, great photography, and I can't wait to make it for myself.
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Aug 22, 2019 05:22
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SymmetryrtemmyS posted:Ankarsrum, Electrolux, and a few other brands are all the same mixer, made by the same people. The original stand mixer ever made was an Ankarsrum. I was thinking of getting an old one made in the 50s or 80s and renovating it, I think they were called Electrolux back then. My Kenwood was bought new in 2008.
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Aug 22, 2019 06:26
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His Divine Shadow posted:I was thinking of getting an old one made in the 50s or 80s and renovating it, I think they were called Electrolux back then. My Kenwood was bought new in 2008. Oh, I like that idea a lot. Sorry if I misread your post. That would be really cool to see, and if you go through with it I'd love to read your post.
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Aug 22, 2019 06:50
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SymmetryrtemmyS posted:That looks great. Well done, great photography, and I can't wait to make it for myself. Thanks! I have had a lot of fun figuring it out. Plus, it's bread so even the mistakes are delicious.
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Aug 22, 2019 15:04
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SymmetryrtemmyS posted:Oh, I like that idea a lot. Sorry if I misread your post. That would be really cool to see, and if you go through with it I'd love to read your post. I bought a 1980s model last night for 20 euros, a fixer upper with a broken belt, but otherwise looks fine. Will open it up and go through the electronics as well as a complete disassembly and cleanup. Dough roller is worn but new ones are available. 
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Aug 23, 2019 06:42
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First couple of sourdough loaves in a while  e: this is the KAF extra tangy sourdough, so it's been the better part of 30 hours so far. Totally Reasonable fucked around with this message at 00:52 on Sep 1, 2019 |
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Sep 1, 2019 00:49
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crumb
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Sep 1, 2019 01:40
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Is that a 30 hour single batch, no starter? I've got time to start dough tomorrow if so.
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Sep 1, 2019 14:45
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toplitzin posted:Is that a 30 hour single batch, no starter? Essentially what happens when you make an entire batch for 30 hours is that your entire dough is a levain, which results in more tender, more fluffy crumb due to the enzymatic activity. I would recommend adding salt right at the beginning, or maybe setting aside an autolyse of no more than 15-20% of your total flour weight at 100%, noting that the latter procedure will result in an even softer crumb.
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Sep 1, 2019 17:42
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I made burger buns for a cookout today. They had hardly any oven spring, but that was OK because I'd been told "nothing so big we'd have to take apart the burger to eat." It was the Wheat Oat Flax Canada Day Buns recipe from King Arthur., and it came out absolutely delicious and held up well to the burgers. They were just, like, 3/4 of inch tall. I didn't expect them to be very tall; based on the recipe, just... taller than what I got.   I think I must have under-kneaded it; I've got some forearm issues and had to stop when it hurts. It seemed to be kneaded enough, but perhaps not. Or maybe not proofed enough on that second rise. I might try doing this as a no-knead bread as I've had better luck with oven spring with those.
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Sep 3, 2019 03:02
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effika posted:I made burger buns for a cookout today. They had hardly any oven spring, but that was OK because I'd been told "nothing so big we'd have to take apart the burger to eat." It seems both underproofed (you can tell from the tightness of the crumb, which seems to want to draw together on the second picture there) and like you didn't form it as tightly as you should have. Make sure to develop enough gluten to get a decent windowpane, and make sure to give the dough ball plenty of tension.
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Sep 3, 2019 04:35
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Those buns look neat. How rich are they? Or, to put the question more directly, how do you think they'd be without the egg yolk? I'd be interested in making a vegan version but I wouldn't want them to turn out dry or anything.
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Sep 3, 2019 11:18
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SymmetryrtemmyS posted:It seems both underproofed (you can tell from the tightness of the crumb, which seems to want to draw together on the second picture there) and like you didn't form it as tightly as you should have. Make sure to develop enough gluten to get a decent windowpane, and make sure to give the dough ball plenty of tension. Thanks for confirming my instincts; those should be easy to work on with this dough next time. TychoCelchuuu posted:Those buns look neat. How rich are they? Or, to put the question more directly, how do you think they'd be without the egg yolk? I'd be interested in making a vegan version but I wouldn't want them to turn out dry or anything. I think they'd be fine without the egg yolk, just not as soft.
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Sep 3, 2019 13:04
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First ever time making poolish, I've just finished mixing it in a big plastic tub and left it in the kitchen. I've covered it with a dry tea towel, is that okay? Or do I need to clingfilm wrap it, or cover it with a damp tea towel? I was reading the book and it doesn't mention it needing to be sealed. Oh, and what size dutch oven should I be using to bake this bread in?
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Sep 7, 2019 19:25
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Qubee posted:First ever time making poolish, I've just finished mixing it in a big plastic tub and left it in the kitchen. I've covered it with a dry tea towel, is that okay? Or do I need to clingfilm wrap it, or cover it with a damp tea towel? I was reading the book and it doesn't mention it needing to be sealed. Oh, and what size dutch oven should I be using to bake this bread in? When I leave my no knead dough to rise I use a damp tea towel
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Sep 7, 2019 19:51
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I dunno whether you want a moist atmosphere or just regular dry kitchen atmosphere. Worried having a damp tea towel over it might cause bad things to happen instead of good things.
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Sep 7, 2019 20:00
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You don't want the outermost layer to dry out. If your place is humid enough probably won't matter but otherwise use damp or plastic
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Sep 7, 2019 20:02
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Made a poolish white bread last night. Recipe said to let the poolish sit for 13 hours, I sorta ended up getting super busy and leaving it out for 18. I was really skeptical, but went ahead and made the dough anyway. It was a nightmare to work with, as it was a super hydrated dough. Did three folds, let it sit overnight in the fridge, baked them today. They turned out loving amazing, best bread I've ever made. Super chewy, nutty flavour. The first dough was my tester, the oven was too high for it (or I removed the dutch oven lid for too long) so it has a very "crisp" (read: burnt) crust. The second dough turned out much better, not as burnt on the outside, because I ignored the recipe and didn't put the temperature as high. Only issue I had was how difficult the dough was to work, and it totally caked onto my banneton despite liberally dusting the banneton with flour. Any tips on removing caked-on dough from a banneton? And are super hydrated doughs meant to form really tight, elastic balls when you fold / form them, or do they always maintain a sort of gooey elasticy-ness?
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Sep 9, 2019 14:03
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The goo you experienced was likely due to the over fermented preferment.
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Sep 9, 2019 14:50
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Figured as much, put it onto a wooden chopping board and it just glooped all over the place, almost fell off onto the floor until I caught it with the bread scraper.
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Sep 9, 2019 15:42
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What kind of flour are you using in the banneton?
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Sep 9, 2019 21:53
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Qubee posted:Figured as much, put it onto a wooden chopping board and it just glooped all over the place, almost fell off onto the floor until I caught it with the bread scraper. That's the result of enzymes breaking down the starches in the flour. That's what happens when you allow it to ferment too long. You can still usually pull a loaf out of it, but you almost need to "pour" it into the container. Usually I form it as best I can, put it seam side down into the banneton, and dump it into the cooking pan seam side up. Then give it a few scissor cuts to score, bake it and hope for the best. Flavor is always really good, but the texture suffers. edit: when working with high hydration dough, it helps to think of the outer layer as more of a membrane than a skin. It's very thin, and it'll hold a shape but it's also very flexible and easily torn. SymmetryrtemmyS fucked around with this message at 03:00 on Sep 11, 2019 |
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Sep 9, 2019 22:09
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In FWSY, how come there is next to no kneading? It mainly uses folds, and they're super quick. I'm liking it a lot, cause I used to find kneading very bothersome. But folding is a quick few minutes, and you do it a few times, and bam, done. Does the author compensate for no kneading by leaving breads to bulk proof for longer, so the bread naturally forms it's own gluten structure? PS: managed to clean the banneton. Had to soak it in water, then spent about 30 mins picking out all the dough with a wooden skewer. Then I put it in the oven for an hour at 30c to dry it out. Going to liberally dust with flour next time. Wouldn't recommend loving up like I did, it's an absolute pain in the rear end to clean. Qubee fucked around with this message at 15:11 on Sep 12, 2019 |
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Sep 12, 2019 15:00
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I tried using a banneton for some of the FWSY doughs and I ran into the same problem even with liberal dusting. I just ended up using a colander and parchment paper for the doughs that are too wet.
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Sep 12, 2019 15:31
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I've found cornmeal to be a better barrier between FWSY dough and my banneton, plus it gives the outside an interesting bit of texture after the bake
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Sep 12, 2019 15:33
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Huxley posted:I've found cornmeal to be a better barrier between FWSY dough and my banneton, plus it gives the outside an interesting bit of texture after the bake Cornmeal is great. It's what dominos uses to dust the base of their pizzas with. Definitely giving this a go.
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Sep 12, 2019 15:39
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Qubee posted:Cornmeal is great. It's what dominos uses to dust the base of their pizzas with. Definitely giving this a go. Realizing lots of pizza places did this is what inspired me to try it in the first place, actually.
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Sep 12, 2019 15:44
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Qubee posted:In FWSY, how come there is next to no kneading? It mainly uses folds, and they're super quick. I'm liking it a lot, cause I used to find kneading very bothersome. But folding is a quick few minutes, and you do it a few times, and bam, done. Does the author compensate for no kneading by leaving breads to bulk proof for longer, so the bread naturally forms it's own gluten structure? sorta yes, but fermentation time is fermentation time. autolyse does wonders for gluten development. fermentation enhances it. I tend to either kneed until almost developed then a fold at 50 and 100 minutes or the half hour folds for a few hours (if I have time). Same results. The latter, according to chad roberts, is better for certain wheat strands like spelt.
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Sep 12, 2019 15:53
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Qubee posted:In FWSY, how come there is next to no kneading? It mainly uses folds, and they're super quick. I'm liking it a lot, cause I used to find kneading very bothersome. But folding is a quick few minutes, and you do it a few times, and bam, done. Does the author compensate for no kneading by leaving breads to bulk proof for longer, so the bread naturally forms it's own gluten structure? less yeast and more time means less work and more flavor. easy decision, really, unless you want fresh hamburger buns today in which case you bump up the yeast and lower the time and knead more
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Sep 12, 2019 19:01
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Re:bannetons use rice flour to dust them with it'll make them virtually non-stick.
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Sep 12, 2019 21:07
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I made his Saturday white bread recipe, a recipe I thought would be easy because he says so, it was low hydration and required no preferment. It was much easier to fold and handle in the bowl, but I had the same glooping issues. It came out of the banneton (sorta) alright, and then I went to ball it up on a floured worktop to get good surface tension, and it just kept glooping all over the place. I didn't even bulk proof for 5 hours (I did 4 because my kitchen was super warm, and then a one hour rise in the banneton). Got to the point where I was sick of attempting to even get it to a ball, so I just globbed it into the dutch oven. It turned out great and round, tasted great too. Liberally sprinkled wholegrain on the worktop which helped a little, but it absorbed so fast I was scared to add more in case it became too dry. I think I'm just going to slowly attempt to professionally follow his shaping instructions, but if it doesn't work, I just say gently caress it and throw it in. My girlfriend was on point with the exaggerated yums and "this is so delicious", cause she knew how pissed off I'd gotten over it. But thankfully, it wasn't bad enough where she had to act too hard. Will definitely try the rice flour trick, as I can't keep washing out bannetons after using them to prevent the dough turning to cement. Qubee fucked around with this message at 07:53 on Sep 13, 2019 |
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Sep 13, 2019 07:41
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Qubee posted:I made his Saturday white bread recipe, a recipe I thought would be easy because he says so, it was low hydration and required no preferment. It was much easier to fold and handle in the bowl, but I had the same glooping issues. It came out of the banneton (sorta) alright, and then I went to ball it up on a floured worktop to get good surface tension, and it just kept glooping all over the place. I didn't even bulk proof for 5 hours (I did 4 because my kitchen was super warm, and then a one hour rise in the banneton). Got to the point where I was sick of attempting to even get it to a ball, so I just globbed it into the dutch oven. It turned out great and round, tasted great too. Liberally sprinkled wholegrain on the worktop which helped a little, but it absorbed so fast I was scared to add more in case it became too dry. what is the exact series of steps you're following? you should only be using the banneton for the final proof (after shaping), and you shouldn't be shaping it at all after you dump it out (banneton -> floured work surface -> preheated dutch oven, as gently as possible at each transition).
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Sep 13, 2019 14:12
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Sometimes it doesn't work Sometimes it does 
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Sep 13, 2019 14:32
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That dough is definitely not supposed to be gloopy. With two folds it'll still be sticky in the mixing bowl and once you turn it out onto a floured surface and give it another inward fold, it should handle the same as a typical dough. To reiterate, my process is 1. Autolyse 20-30 minutes 2. Pinch in salt/yeast 3. Two to three folds over the next 90 minutes, then let sit until total time is 4-6 hours, depending. If you are "gloopy" at this step, you are overhydrated, your dough will spread out in the container, but after each fold it should be able to hold onto itself a fair bit. 4. Gently roll out of your mixing bowl onto a floured countertop, gently fold back into a ball, much like your folds in the mixing bowl. Bring the (now floured) bottom up and over so you have a fully floured ball. 5. Shape it and dump it creases-down in a (floured/rice floured/corn mealed) banneton 6. Preheat dutch oven 7. Flip dough out of banneton onto a sheet of parchment paper, lift the whole thing into your dutch oven and bake
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Sep 13, 2019 14:41
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Mr. Glass posted:what is the exact series of steps you're following? you should only be using the banneton for the final proof (after shaping), and you shouldn't be shaping it at all after you dump it out (banneton -> floured work surface -> preheated dutch oven, as gently as possible at each transition). Flour and water, autolyse for 30 mins. Salt and yeast in, pincer method and scooping to reset, then more pincer til I feel it's mixed. I leave it for ten mins, then do my first fold. Leave it for another ten, do the second fold. I did a third fold for good measure, then left it in the bowl to bulk proof. This step was firm and not gloopy. Once I let it sit for four and a bit hours, I scooped it onto a liberally floured worktop and it started to flubber it's way to my floor, but I managed to catch it. I then played a game of cat and mouse with a ball of dough, which embarrassingly enough was getting the better of me. I did my best to form it into a tight ball and then dropped it gently into a well-floured banneton, seam side down. Once that rose for an hour, I attempted to transfer it to the dutch oven (I'll be using the parchment paper tip next time) and it was just a runny mess. I couldn't grab hold of the thing, even when I tried (and failed) to use my palms instead of my fingertips. I'm using strong bread flour too, and AFAIK all flour in the UK is unbleached. So I'm not sure whether I'm folding wrong (which I don't think is the case, because I see the thing tighten up bit by bit in the bowl), or if I'm just unlucky, or if this is exactly how it's meant to behave and I just need to embrace the way of the dough.
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Sep 13, 2019 14:53
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Qubee posted:Flour and water, autolyse for 30 mins. Salt and yeast in, pincer method and scooping to reset, then more pincer til I feel it's mixed. I leave it for ten mins, then do my first fold. Leave it for another ten, do the second fold. I did a third fold for good measure, then left it in the bowl to bulk proof. This step was firm and not gloopy. Once I let it sit for four and a bit hours, I scooped it onto a liberally floured worktop and it started to flubber it's way to my floor, but I managed to catch it. I then played a game of cat and mouse with a ball of dough, which embarrassingly enough was getting the better of me. I did my best to form it into a tight ball and then dropped it gently into a well-floured banneton, seam side down. Once that rose for an hour, I attempted to transfer it to the dutch oven (I'll be using the parchment paper tip next time) and it was just a runny mess. I couldn't grab hold of the thing, even when I tried (and failed) to use my palms instead of my fingertips. ok, it should definitely be holding its shape after the final proof, so i think you're letting it go for too long in the bulk ferment stage; the absolute amount of time isn't important here, it's how much the yeast has processed, and that can be affected by temperature & humidity (generally, warmer == faster ferment). how warm is your apartment/house? as an immediate recommendation i would try checking the next batch after 3 hours of fermentation. once it has reached 2.5x-3x volume, it's ready to go, regardless of how long it has been sitting, and any additional time is just moving you closer to the gloop.
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Sep 13, 2019 15:43
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