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learnincurve posted:AP/plain flour is really low gluten guys, [insert mixup of horrified and sad face emoji here] unless you like your bread unnecessarily chewier and flatter then bread flour is the one you should be using. What a bizarre statement. It's within 2% (of the total content, obviously the relative variance is higher), and varies so much that AP flour in some countries has the equivalent protein content of bread flours in other countries. It's not "really low gluten" at all.
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May 20, 2020 14:27
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Also, people like reinhart say they use flour in the 11-12% purposefully (for a huge range of breads) rather than the higher protein bread flours
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May 20, 2020 15:08
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mediaphage posted:Tbh I see this online and I think ice cubes are a terrible idea. All you’re doing is taking the heat down that much more (I am aware of the enthalpy of vaporization but I see no point in making it worse). The boiling water and spray I started doing from BBA gets me some baller baguettes, though. I have my oven set a little higher to start to account for it, and my oven is also filled with stone to hold temp.
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May 20, 2020 15:10
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The wife is making the 'better no-knead' bread from Serious Eats. She's done the overnight bench proof and now the dough is in the fridge in a cambro and has been for a few days. She's planning on baking today. There is a considerable amount of water in the cambro - both around the surface of the dough and condensed up the side of the container. Does that sound right? She says it smells very boozy, but that's been my experience with long fridge ferments.
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May 20, 2020 15:36
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angor posted:The wife is making the 'better no-knead' bread from Serious Eats. She's done the overnight bench proof and now the dough is in the fridge in a cambro and has been for a few days. She's planning on baking today. There is a considerable amount of water in the cambro - both around the surface of the dough and condensed up the side of the container. Does that sound right? She says it smells very boozy, but that's been my experience with long fridge ferments. its been a while since I have done that bread but I did do it a bunch and didnt ever get any water. somebody else weigh in if this is a bad idea, but I would just dump the water before you pull the dough out for shaping
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May 20, 2020 16:28
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Nephzinho posted:I have my oven set a little higher to start to account for it, and my oven is also filled with stone to hold temp. Yeah i think you underestimate how much that cools the oven still. If it works for you, fine, I just think it’s bad advice generally
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May 20, 2020 16:44
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mediaphage posted:Yeah i think you underestimate how much that cools the oven still. If it works for you, fine, I just think it’s bad advice generally Fair. It took me a lot of fine tuning to get it figured out for me and its still something I'm tweaking regularly after something like a decade of making baguettes.
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May 20, 2020 16:50
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My levain rose like crazy and was super quick, but now this dough is going sooooo slowly 
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May 20, 2020 18:33
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mediaphage posted:What a bizarre statement. It's within 2% (of the total content, obviously the relative variance is higher), and varies so much that AP flour in some countries has the equivalent protein content of bread flours in other countries. It's not "really low gluten" at all. Yeah I've noticed good Internet recipes call out the actual gluten requirements and I'm guessing it's because of that variance. You'll get pretty big swings on gluten content per flour category even in the same country. I actually just went on a Google binge to see if there's even a US FDA statement on gluten percentages for different labels of flour and could only find a requirement for declaring "gluten-free" (20 ppm). King Arthur AP flour is 11.7% gluten which would be a bread flour from other places. Their bread flour is 12.7% gluten, which is just 1% more. For additional brain breakage, try to contrast gluten content and protein content.
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May 20, 2020 19:29
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Rocko Bonaparte posted:Yeah I've noticed good Internet recipes call out the actual gluten requirements and I'm guessing it's because of that variance. You'll get pretty big swings on gluten content per flour category even in the same country. Yeah. I would want to use pastry flour for bread, as most will be noticeable by that point, but I don't get enough of a difference between AP and bread to bother stocking both kinds (not that it matters much as I mill a lot of mine these days).
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May 20, 2020 20:01
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Fried off the rest of the doughnuts today as doughnut holes
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May 20, 2020 20:45
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His Divine Shadow posted:I've never found specific bread flour in stores here. I commonly use what is labeled "half coarse wheat flour" which is my idea of an AP flour. A few comments on this. I am not American but my understanding is that AP refers to all-purpose, so it can be used for both pastries and cakes, and bread. It thus has quite a fine texture and a moderate protein level, around 11%. The half-coarse wheat flour would, as the name suggests, be too coarse for finer items like pastries and cakes; but would be good for bread: so it is not AP equivalent The special wheat flour you refer to has a finer texture than the half-coarse, and would be used for cakes etc. As for it not being possible to get lower-protein flour this far north (I am guessing Finland?) there was a great BBC Food Programme episode on Scandinavian baking, and it went through the different types of flours and breads. In the warmer south they could grow wheat; farther north, rye; farther north, barley; furthest north, oats. The further north one went, the lower the gluten/protein content. I would not be surprised if the flour that you are buying was not from wheat grown in Finland, but somewhere further south. mediaphage posted:Fried off the rest of the doughnuts today as doughnut holes Please be my neighbour.
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May 20, 2020 20:56
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therattle posted:
well if you ever get the urge to move to Canada, I’m sure we’d have a time (I did make a neighbours quarantine snack pack with doughnuts, caramels, bagels, and stack cake to give away recently). Y’all are prolly tired of my doughnut/hole adventures but man lookit this crumb! 
mediaphage fucked around with this message at 22:30 on May 20, 2020 |
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May 20, 2020 22:28
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https://www.theperfectloaf.com/pain-de-mie/ Making this recipe, my starter and levain were super active and happy, but I'm on hour 6 of bulk fermentation and while it smells yeasty, there's zero indication of anything going on. It is a little cool in my kitchen so I'm gonna let it go longer, but if poo poo isn't doing anything, is it too late to pretend it was the world's longest autolyse and cut some instant yeast through the dough?
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May 20, 2020 22:46
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Casu Marzu posted:https://www.theperfectloaf.com/pain-de-mie/ You might try putting in your oven over a bowl of boiling water to add warmth and humidity. But if nothing happens, yeah, you can totally just slop it into a mixer and knead in a little yeast sugar water or whatever.
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May 20, 2020 22:51
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Rocko Bonaparte posted:I'm looking up hoagies, french bread, and italian bread; none of them are particularly any one "thing" on their own. I'm currently settling on a fairly wet (+60% baker's hydration) dough that has a little bit of fat in it. I keep seeing a trend with that and kaiser rolls. Is there a general category for that kind of dough? I don't think I would necessarily call it an enriched dough, but it isn't lean either. A lot of recipes for these breads call for all-purpose flour, not bread flour; even King Arthur's site has stuff us AP flour, so it's clear the recipes aren't naive. However, I will probably use bread flour to get some of the toughness I've come to expect, and use a milk/egg white wash to develop the crust. Did you have any success with the hoagie rolls? I’m looking to try and make proper cheesesteak bread, so sub and hoagie rolls are ideal.
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May 20, 2020 23:11
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mediaphage posted:well if you ever get the urge to move to Canada, I’m sure we’d have a time (I did make a neighbours quarantine snack pack with doughnuts, caramels, bagels, and stack cake to give away recently). Well, my brother lives in Toronto... Where did you learn so much about baking, BTW? You're a bloody savant.
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May 20, 2020 23:26
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therattle posted:Well, my brother lives in Toronto... I’m totally down to train into the city for an eat-up. And aw that’s kind. Honestly I like fermentation anything since I have a micro background and after doing a semester in France North American baking was pretty terrible (at the time, it has improved by an order of magnitude since then), at least where I was living then. So if you wanted something delicious, well, time to diy. Lately I’ve been really into doing as much as I can on my own. Milling whole grains has been somewhat revelatory, the flavour of the flour is really great.
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May 20, 2020 23:40
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Scrub-Niggurath posted:Did you have any success with the hoagie rolls? I’m looking to try and make proper cheesesteak bread, so sub and hoagie rolls are ideal. I haven't done them yet. I planned to do a bunch of baking this weekend, but the weather forecast is all over the place. The one problem with relying on an outdoor, wood-fired oven is the drat weather.
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May 21, 2020 00:16
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I made sourdough rolls! I wish I had left them in the oven for five more minutes, but they were yummy with dinner and even better today, toasted as egg sandwiches. 
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May 21, 2020 01:52
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Hoagie roll OP, I have this recipe I found in one of my old note books The kitchen I was working in we had a lot of waygu scraps from trimming up beef and the chef wanted to make cheese steak sandwiches for staff meal. I used this recipe and they were pretty perfect for that. 6 c bread flour 3 1/3 c water 3 Tb sugar 1 1/2 Tb yeast 1 1/2 Tb salt 4 1/2 Tb oil I'm pretty sure I scaled it up from a smaller recipe if you need to adjust the amount it makes it shouldn't be a problem.
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May 21, 2020 02:15
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Casu Marzu posted:https://www.theperfectloaf.com/pain-de-mie/ I haven't made this particular recipe but I do regularly make the doughnuts from that site, and if this bread is anything like the doughnuts, you really do need to give these sorts of doughs a warm environment for bulk. It's likely your yeast is doing its thing, but the cooler environment is making the bulk take longer. The section on bulk fermentation do mention all these things, so maybe just let it proof in the oven like mediaphage suggested.
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May 21, 2020 02:18
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Thumposaurus posted:Hoagie roll OP, Thats real wet. Are the six cups packed?
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May 21, 2020 02:32
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therattle posted:As for it not being possible to get lower-protein flour this far north (I am guessing Finland?) there was a great BBC Food Programme episode on Scandinavian baking, and it went through the different types of flours and breads. In the warmer south they could grow wheat; farther north, rye; farther north, barley; furthest north, oats. The further north one went, the lower the gluten/protein content. I would not be surprised if the flour that you are buying was not from wheat grown in Finland, but somewhere further south. We definitely grow wheat in Finland, I got wheat fields nearby. It's something of a big deal in Finland that we produce 80% of our own food and basically all our own grains. All the packages I listed specify Finland as the country of origin for the grain. I don't think that brand would dare try otherwise. I've also had the opposite understanding, i.e. that the further north you go, the more protein your wheat gets and the further south the less. That was the explanation I remember as to why the high protein flours in the US were grown in the north and the low protein flours are grown in the south of the US.
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May 21, 2020 04:47
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mediaphage posted:Sure, as your dough ferments (especially when using a wild starter), you give extra time for the microbial amylases and proteases to break down the sugars and proteins in your dough. This results in good flavour, but worse structure. This makes me feel a lot better that there is an actual explanation.
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May 21, 2020 06:00
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Submarine Sandpaper posted:Thats real wet. Are the six cups packed? Seems I fat fingered typing it in that should be a 2 not a 3 
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May 21, 2020 12:30
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His Divine Shadow posted:We definitely grow wheat in Finland, I got wheat fields nearby. It's something of a big deal in Finland that we produce 80% of our own food and basically all our own grains. All the packages I listed specify Finland as the country of origin for the grain. I don't think that brand would dare try otherwise. That’s interesting. I can’t find anything about gluten levels relating to latitude after a cursory search.
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May 21, 2020 14:30
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therattle posted:That’s interesting. I can’t find anything about gluten levels relating to latitude after a cursory search. look for stressing. that's unsubstantiated http://landresources.montana.edu/soilfertility/documents/PDF/pub/NWhtProtEB0206.pdf easiest read I could find on stressing quick Submarine Sandpaper fucked around with this message at 14:54 on May 21, 2020 |
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May 21, 2020 14:46
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What's a good recipe for hot dog/sausage buns?
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May 21, 2020 14:51
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The Midniter posted:What's a good recipe for hot dog/sausage buns? Not a bun in the sense we’re used to in the US but if you want to go full German you can make rolls pretty easy. Brötchen is the name for them. They’re kind of thick and firm but not hard. Perfect for carrying a sausage around in one hand while you drink a beer with the other.
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May 21, 2020 15:06
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therattle posted:That’s interesting. I can’t find anything about gluten levels relating to latitude after a cursory search. It might just be bullshit. Maybe it's just they grew different varieties in the south and north.
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May 21, 2020 15:38
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The Midniter posted:What's a good recipe for hot dog/sausage buns? My standard enriched dough is 65% hydration, 2.5% salt. Add an egg and 30g of milk powder per 5-600g of flour. Leaven with yeast, starter, or whatever other preferment you want. As regards protein content, I imagine that variety has more to do with it than location - but there will naturally be variances between the same variety grown in two different locations (that’s nothing new, though). Like, winter wheats are softer than spring wheats, so it’s possible that more northerly latitudes find it easier to grow that kind. I don’t know, though; that’s just a guess.
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May 21, 2020 17:17
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I have come to realize that the real purpose of my starter is to make King Arthur rosemary-sourdough crackers. Occasionally I make a loaf of bread, as a treat. Today I'm doing a Romano/smoked paprika variant of the crackers; will report back.
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May 21, 2020 20:39
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The Bread Thread: Occasionally I make a loaf of bread, as a treat.
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May 22, 2020 06:28
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Coming back to this finally:Scrub-Niggurath posted:Did you have any success with the hoagie rolls? I’m looking to try and make proper cheesesteak bread, so sub and hoagie rolls are ideal. Weather permitting, I'm thinking of doing kaiser rolls tomorrow, but I'm gunning for a general-purpose sandwich recipe here. I don't know how practical that is because I think the hydration on the long rolls tends to be higher. I don't have any particular notes on technique here. A mish-mash between: * John Kirkwood's rolls * King Arthur Flour Kaiser Rolls No egg in dough. Enrichment is only from some using more butter... and bonus soy lecithin. Everything I've seen from a crumb created with the egg doesn't seem to be what I want. Crumb is too small and loose. I want some teeth battle with this. * 560g bread flour * 320g water * 30g sugar * 50g melted butter * 6g salt * 6g soy lecithin Brushing with milk/egg white mix. Cutting with an X shape. Topping with sesame seeds. Rolls will not be touching each other. Rolls will go directly on bricks. Will spray steam when added to oven. Baking at 400F for total of 15 minutes, but turning partways.
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May 22, 2020 07:16
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 My fail loaf produced something surprisingly decent after mixing in a couple grams of commercial yeast and letting it proof overnight in the fridge. I think I got a bit hasty because I didn't want to be baking at 10pm last night and it probably could have used another hour on its second rise. It's a bit dense and didn't fill out the pan completely on the top.
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May 22, 2020 14:42
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Decided to try random scoring. Made with the super simple King Arthur flour no-knead sourdough recipe except did the long fridge proof in the banneton  
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May 22, 2020 19:40
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Casu Marzu posted:
How long is that loaf? It looks pretty long.
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May 22, 2020 19:56
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Mr. Squishy posted:How long is that loaf? It looks pretty long. 13x4x4 pullman pan
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May 22, 2020 20:41
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After seeing sourdough cinnamon buns in this thread I wanted to try making them. I struggled a bit. Attempt #2 . Only sourdough starter, no added yeast. Bulk fermented for 4ish hours, then shaped and refrigerated the rolls to bake the next day. Not a success. Didn’t take pictures of the first attempt. Used the same method but I got at least some rise out of them.  #3 - started adding „insurance“ yeast and it did good things  #4 - more like it   Want to go back to sourdough only and the longer rise time. The sourdough tang is great with the brown sugar and cinnamon and I feel it’s way less with the added yeast. Not sure how to get the starter where it needs to be for this. edit: sorry for the huge pictures, added some timg tags Serendipitaet fucked around with this message at 10:57 on May 23, 2020 |
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May 22, 2020 23:52
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