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WhoIsYou
Jan 28, 2009
Are you using instant yeast? Sometimes it's called Bread Machine Yeast. If you have the packets of active dry yeast, you'll need to double the amount you use. What temperature water are you using? Use water that's somewhere between room temp and body temp. The recipe calls for a very low percentage of yeast. which is reflected in the long fermentation time. Did you wait overnight? Using that much whole wheat flour will give you a heavier, denser loaf than all white flour, but you should still see and smell the yeast as the dough is rising.

Unless you're using fresh compressed yeast, it shouldn't be hurt by the salt.

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WhoIsYou
Jan 28, 2009
Anyone who plans to make bread regularly without using a sourdough starter would do well to pick up a bag of SAF-Instant Red. You can mix it right in to the dry ingredients, and you don't have to use as much as the packets or jar.

WhoIsYou
Jan 28, 2009
Yeast cells take a couple hours to reproduce once. They also need oxygen, so if you aren't doing a long preferment and regularly incorporating air, it doesn't come into play. The amount you start with will determine how fast the dough ferments. You can get better flavor from your bread with a longer ferment in the mid-70s. Using a smaller amount lets you get more flavor before too much carbon dioxide is released. Also, measuring the yeast will give a more consistent loaf of bread.

WhoIsYou
Jan 28, 2009

Molten Llama posted:

Hold me. I'm scared.

I just made a new bread recipe and it came together (seemingly) properly at a full cup less flour than the minimum the author calls for.

On the one hand I've made enough similar bread to know it's the right consistency, and I'm only at the first rise anyway. On the other hand I'm worried I just used some very expensive ingredients to make a bowlful of garbage. So much cardamom. :ohdear:

Go with how the dough looks and feels. It sounds like you're measuring by volume instead of weight. You may just be measuring differently than the recipe author. If you scoop and sweep, you'll be getting a lot more flour in each cup than someone who uses a spoon to fill the cup. Also, things like humidity and type of flour will alter the amount of water you need to get the right hydration.

Black Baby Goku posted:

This might be a silly question, but is there anything such as a carb-free bread? My friend Trevor told me about something about a carb-free bread and since I'm on a 0 carb diet (ketosis ftw) I can't actually enjoy bread as much as I want.

You'll never get bread the way you know and like it without it being mostly carbs. There are recipes for flatbreads using low-carb mixes like Carbquick or quickbread type things using nut flours and meringues. This site is a decent place to start if you really want to try it. But proper bread is one of the things you'll have to live without if you want to do ketosis.

WhoIsYou
Jan 28, 2009
It's the January doldrums so work is shut down for the week. I've decided to spend my time making fancy bread. Today I mixed up some challah and made a three tiered loaf. Also, some knotted rolls from the leftover dough.




WhoIsYou
Jan 28, 2009

therattle posted:

Wow, that looks absolutely amazing. How does it taste?

I used a standard challah recipe, so it's nice and soft with a fine crumb. Made some more today.

Small two strand braid:


Five strand braid:


Another three layer braid; six strand on bottom, four in the middle, with a three strand on top:

Got impatient and didn't let this one proof long enough and left the oven a bit too hot so it got a little dark.

Bread ring:


Six pointed braided star:

WhoIsYou
Jan 28, 2009
Last day of vacation and my rye sourdough starter was finally mature. Made my first attempt at some loaves of 80% whole rye bread. They just came out of the oven, so I won't get to taste them until tomorrow evening, but they smell incredible.



Also experimented with a chocolate ciabatta style dough. Added about 10% sugar and instead of water, I used milk steeped with cocoa nibs. It has a very light sweetness with a slight chocolate nuttiness from the nibs. Next time I'd try steeping the nibs a bit longer or using the milk for the poolish, too. I dusted some with a cocoa powder sugar mix.

WhoIsYou
Jan 28, 2009

coop52 posted:

I mixed the dough, kneaded it until it was smooth, and let it rise for an hour and a half or so. I shaped the dough and put it in a Pyrex dish (don't have a loaf pan or stone or anything) and put it in the oven on 180C for 20 minutes. My oven isn't a real oven; it's a microwave/convection oven combo. The top crust turned out really nice, but the bottom was still really runny, so I flipped it over and put it back in for another 10 minutes on 180C. I let it cool on a rack for 45 minutes before I cut it.


What do you think went wrong?

You didn't give it a second fermentation. You need to let it rise twice - the first time develops the flavor, the second is for size and lightness. After you shape it, cover it with plastic and let it rise again until it's about %90 bigger than it started.

WhoIsYou
Jan 28, 2009

nwin posted:

Having some trouble with some sourdough and am looking for any insight.

I have the Oregon Trail starter and have made the following recipe twice:

http://www.themanlyhousekeeper.com/2011/06/24/bread-baker-rosemary-or-olive-sourdough/

(Don't blame me for the site...it was the first one I could find)

Now a few things I ran into with that (note that I didn't do the olive bread, I just made the rosemary).:

1)The dough is VERY sticky to work with. He says at one point to line bowls with paper towels...I did that and then when it came time to remove I was tearing paper towels off. The next time I used a cloth towel which worked a bit better, but I was still tearing dough off of it.

2) It doesn't rise that much during cooking. We're talking maybe 3 inches at most in the center?

3) The crust is quite thick. I like thick crusts, and this is on par with what I like, but maybe a tad thinner wouldn't be bad?

Now, for cooking, I've been following that recipe to a T as far as I can tell. The one thing I do to cook it is preheat the oven with a pizza stone in there and then put the dough on the stone.

What I'm really aiming for is the Rosemary Olive Oil Sourdough bread I get at Whole Foods. I use this bread for sandwiches so I need it to be thicker. I think the Whole Foods bread is probably 5 inches at center?

Any advice or other recipes would be much appreciated. Thanks!

If the dough is too wet, you can work in a little more flour to stiffen it up. When you put them in the bowl for the second fermentation they won't be as sticky. Also, since you've got olive oil in the dough, try coating the bowl with a bit of oil to keep it from sticking. Or, if you add enough flour your dough will be stiff enough to hold it's own shape on a baking pan or peel. A firmer dough will also be taller when you bake it instead of spreading out like a slack dough will.

For a thinner crust, you'll want to steam the oven when you first put the bread in. I like to use a squirt bottle to blast the sides and bottom of the oven with water. Get your bread set up on the peel, squirt the oven with water, quickly slash your dough, slide it onto your stone, then spray the oven again. If you want, you can spray again after a couple minutes. This will delay formation of the crust resulting in a bigger loaf with a thinner crust.

The recipe calls for 14 oz of starter but it doesn't say if it is a stiff levain or a liquid. If you're using a different kind, that could be why your dough is very sticky. How are you keeping and feeding your starter? Since this bread is solely leavened by the sourdough culture, you'll want to make sure it's at its peak fermenting power when you mix the dough. If you still want a little more rise to your dough, you can add 1/8 tsp. of commercial yeast per pound of flour without changing the sourdough characteristics of the bread.

WhoIsYou
Jan 28, 2009

The Doctor posted:

Meant to post these ages ago, here are the pics of my sadly failed croissants. I made them based on theweekendbakery recipe, not really sure where I went wrong. My theory is that I didn't roll the pastry out thin enough, it didn't rise enough, or I used the wrong kind of flour. I didn't have french 55 so I just used regular pastry flour. It was good, layered, flaky pastry but...it was just pastry. Not really croissant.





For croissants, you want to use a stronger flour. Regular bread flour or a mix of bread and AP works well. When you roll them out during the laminating process, aim for a thickness of 10 cm, and for shaping bring it down to 4-6 cm. For an unfilled croissant, the quality of the butter will make a huge difference. If you can, spring for a European style butter like Plugra. My favorite butter is the Servre et Belle Grand Cru, but it's ludicrously expensive.

WhoIsYou
Jan 28, 2009

snailshell posted:

Does anyone have any advice on how to knead super sticky doughs? I made challah last weekend and it turned out pretty poorly (dense, uneven areas of texture within the loaf, chewy in a bad way), probably because I didn't knead it enough. But what can you do to keep kneading when half the loaf comes off stuck to your hands or smeared on the counter when you do one knead? I didn't have a bench scraper, so I used a health insurance ID card instead :shobon:

When you're working with wet dough, you can start it by mixing either with a spatula or by hand in the bowl. Then turn it onto the counter and begin stretching and folding it as shown in this video. If you start with cold water and extend the bulk fermentation time to 2.5-3 hours, you can do the same stretch and fold a couple more times every hour or so to give the dough more strength. You'll definitely want to pick up a bowl scraper (<$1) or a bench scraper ($5-$10) to help work the dough.

For a challah specifically, you want a fairly firm dough. You should be able to knead it easily on the counter without having it stick. Next time work in more flour. Use a strong bread flour or high-gluten flour and knead for at least ten minutes.

WhoIsYou
Jan 28, 2009

Zeithos posted:

Unfortunately my second attempt with fresh yeast didn't go well either. Neither batch rose really at all, and if I let it sit for longer you could smell the yeast over-proofing. I did the exact same loaf with instant right after dumping failure no. 2 and it was perfect. I'm still somewhat convinced the fresh yeast wasn't good, even though I saw them opening a new block to sell me some.

Even if they opened it for you, that block could have been in the cooler for weeks. Good fresh yeast should be dry(ish), firm, and crumbly. If it's rubbery or wet or has any darker spots, it's old and won't be very powerful. A good ratio for different yeast types is 10:5-4:3.33 fresh:active dry:instant. Also, with fresh yeast you must keep the yeast and salt separate. Otherwise the salt will kill your yeast. I usually put the yeast in the bottom of the bowl and add the salt last on top of the rest of the dry ingredients.

Is there any particular reason you want to use fresh yeast?

Doh004 posted:

He said if using dry yeast, you don't have to activate it in water and sugar ahead of time? Why is that different from what other people have suggested?

If you're using active dry yeast, you'll need to dissolve it in warm water. Instant yeast can be added directly to the dry. This is because the instant yeast granules are smaller and will dissolve sufficiently as the dough is mixed.

WhoIsYou
Jan 28, 2009

Einwand posted:

So a few weeks ago I decided I wanted to make rye-bread following this recipe, and it turned out pretty nice. What I'm wondering is, can I safely replace a fair portion of the bread flour with rye flour in this recipe? The rye flavour was really weak, and I'd like to get a much stronger rye flavour from it.

vv I'll try adding more caraway seeds this time and see how it turns out.

You could replace the bread flour in the sponge with rye and still get a good, light loaf. Any more than that and you'll get a denser bread since rye doesn't have gluten to hold up the dough. Also, don't use light rye flour. It's pretty neutral and won't give you much of a rye flavor. Whole rye will go a lot farther, but like whole wheat, your loaf won't rise as tall. If you can find it, medium rye flour is a good compromise between flavor and lightness.

WhoIsYou
Jan 28, 2009

bacalou posted:

Alright, so... I've been trying to get a good loaf of french bread made for the last week or so, but everything I do in this new house is failing me. I'm using this recipe: http://foodwishes.blogspot.com/2013/10/perfect-french-baguette-at-home-only.html but every time I try, the outer crust burns before the interior cooks through. I'm left with doughy, burnt bread and a deep sadness. My oven only goes to 500, not 550 like in the recipe, but I'm hoping I can find a way to make edible bread here before Thanksgiving. I'm cooking on a parchment-lined baking pan with a water bath and mister like it says, adding a little cornmeal to the bottom to prevent sticking. The dough is outrageously sticky and just sort of absorbs the flour I dust my counter with when punching down, sticking to the surface. Should I tape some parchment to the working area and punch down on that? Any advice on how to make a decent loaf of french bread would be seriously helpful, and save my rear end come holiday.

Turn your oven temp down. Unless you're making very skinny baguettes, 550 is going to be too hot. Try 450 for thicker baguettes and a bit lower if you want to make boules. After the final shaping proof the bread on parchment on the back of a sheet pan. When you're ready to bake, slide it off the pan and onto your preheated stone/tile/pan. Halfway through the bake remove the parchment and turn the bread for more even baking.

WhoIsYou
Jan 28, 2009
White bread flour is simply any high protein flour with the bran and germ removed. In the US any bread flour not specifically marked 'Whole Wheat' is white bread flour.

For creating a starter, any flour will work. An organic whole grain will get you started faster, but even value brand all purpose flour will do. Micro-organisms in the flour will start the fermentation, but a ripe sour starter will be dominated by yeast and bacteria from the surrounding environment. When your started is mature and you're ready to start making bread with it, you want to use a high quality flour. King Arthur is a great widely available wheat flour. There's no reason to use vital wheat gluten when you're creating a sour starter.

WhoIsYou
Jan 28, 2009
Try decreasing the hydration a bit. A stiffer dough will give a bit more separation between strands.

WhoIsYou
Jan 28, 2009

Le0 posted:

How do you achieve surface tension? Also I never know how much is too much knock back. Do you like only fold it once or two times or more?

Also a stupid question that is bothering me. How the hell does they make gluten free bread rise ???

King Arthur Flour has a series of videos on YouTube about making bread. This one demonstrates a good way to preshape your loaves to get the surface you want. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dt6pbWYbqPE

Gluten free bread can be leavened with yeast. Though I've never seen a bulk fermentation on gluten fee bread, only a final proofing.

WhoIsYou
Jan 28, 2009

El Rodento posted:

I got the recipe here. I went with the baking soda option instead of investing in food-grade lye, and word-to-the-wise: the baking soda solution boils over pretty easily so I'd recommend dropping the temperature once you hit boil. On my range Medium to Medium-High was enough to maintain the boil without frothing over.

Do yourself a favor and get some lye. Nothing else gives that color and flavor. I get mine from Essential Depot. Pick up some latex gloves, too.

WhoIsYou
Jan 28, 2009

Loanarn posted:

I guess what I'm asking is if you somehow lost every piece of baking equipment and all your ingredients what would be on your must have list?

Must have ingredients would simply be a high quality bread flour; good, clean water; kosher salt; a nice low-middle quality olive oil, and instant yeast. When there's so little going into a loaf, cheaping out on something like the flour will come through in the finished product. King Arthur flour is a solid national brand to start with. If you want to step it up from there, you could look for artisan millers sourcing heirloom wheat varieties. The other major component, water, is also important. If your tap water is hard or heavily chlorinated, invest in a filter or buy filtered water from the grocery for your bread making.

For hardware I'd want metal mixing bowl(s), bench scraper, bowl scraper, scale, flax linen cloths, a lame, baking sheets, and a cooling rack.

WhoIsYou
Jan 28, 2009

Le0 posted:

I've been making the same simple bread for some time now and I'd like something else.
Could anyone recommend something? Also can someone post the no knead recipe I'd like to try this one.

If you have a sheet pan with raised edges, give focaccia a try.

Poolish Focaccia
Poolish:
141 g Water
141 g Bread Flour
Pinch Dry Yeast

Final Dough:
282 g Poolish
85 g Water
42 g Olive Oil
1 1/4 t Dry Yeast
7 g Salt
170 g Bead Flour

Mix the poolish 12 hours before making the final dough.
Using a stand mixer, mix all the ingredients with a dough hook on low speed until the ingredients are thoroughly combined. Increase to medium speed and mix 5-7 minutes. The dough will clean the bowl but still be wet enough to stick at the bottom.
Ferment for 2 hours.
Coat your tray with oil. When you think you've poured enough oil on the tray, add a few more tablespoons.
Dump the dough onto the tray and spread it out with your hands until it mostly fills the tray.
Cover it with plastic and let rise for 2 more hours.
Once it's proofed, it should just about fill the pan. At this point you want to gently dimple the dough with your fingertips.
Fococcia is a great bread to add toppings to, so do that now. Sun dried tomatoes, olives, sel gris, more oil, anything works.
Bake it in a 450 degree oven for 25-30 minutes, until it's golden brown.

WhoIsYou
Jan 28, 2009

KuroMayuri posted:

I then shape the dough, dust with flour, and proof in a banneton covered with a linen couche (aka tea towel). Sometimes I do this at room temperature for around two hours, sometimes in the fridge overnight covered in a large plastic bag.

...

I turn the loaf out of the banneton, score with a lame (aka razor blade), and spray with water, then transfer to the oven, covered in La Cloche or the roasting tins. After 30 minutes I uncover the loaf, turn down to 200C fan (roughly 425 deg F), and bake for another 15 minutes. I then take out of the oven and check the internal temperature with a Thermapen, which is generally over 95C (200 deg F).

Thanks to anyone who reads through all that! Any tips on how to get a better oven spring, or taller loaf in other ways, will get even more thanks :)

What's your process for shaping? If you don't get a nice, even surface on the top of the dough, it will tend to spread. Also, you could try not scoring the loaves. I make a similar sourdough loaf with slightly higher hydration (74%) and get a taller loaf if I don't score it.

It sounds like you're spraying the loaves directly with water. If you are baking in a La Cloche, you shouldn't need to steam at all, since the vessel with trap the steam escaping from the bread. Instead, use your spray bottle to mist the sides of your oven to create steam. Do it once before you load the bread in, again as soon as the bread is in, then once more after a couple minutes. Too much steam will cause your loaves to flatten out since crust formation is delayed too long.

WhoIsYou
Jan 28, 2009
Flour goes in Cambros, don't forget a matching lid. Yeast (instant, I hope) goes in delis, ask for a couple from the deli counter next time you buy some cold cuts. White flour goes in the pantry. Whole grain flour gets stored in the fridge or freezer, depending on how fast you use it. Yeast can stay in the fridge, too.

WhoIsYou
Jan 28, 2009
His oven might be slow to heat up. If the ceramic vessel takes to long to heat up, the middle could overproof. The yeast would push to dough past the gluten's ability to hold it and cause some deflation. The hotter edges set first, before it rises too much.

The cold oven start in that recipe is odd. Have you tried preheating your oven with this recipe?

WhoIsYou
Jan 28, 2009

guppy posted:

I've made crusty rolls by just making bread and then dividing it into smaller pieces and baking it for less time. How do I make softer dinner rolls? Bake lower and longer? Add fat?

Adding fat and sugar to the dough will help soften it. Pain au Lait makes great rolls, and isn't as rich or expensive as a brioche dough. To soften the crust even more, brush the rolls with butter and sprinkle coarse salt over them.

WhoIsYou
Jan 28, 2009

bolind posted:

Anyone has a lead on silicone bread "tins" that can withstand more than 230C (250+ preferably) without giving off 27-syllable compounds that'll make my sperm cells glow bright green and only swim in useless circles?

Sounds like Demarle's Silform are what you want. They're molds made out of a silicon mesh that works great with breads. They're pricey, but pretty much the best thing for this.

WhoIsYou
Jan 28, 2009

Livingston posted:

Hi again! I am having an issue with my sourdough starter. It seems very active, but now it starts smelling like pungent nasty wine at about feeding time.

I usually feed once a day, and my process is pouring out about 2/3 (leaving about 4 ounces), and putting in 4 ounces of water and 4 ounces of flour. Am I doing something wrong here? Thanks!

If you use equal parts starter and flour you'll need to feed at least twice a day. For once daily feeding try 1.5 oz starter instead of 4.

WhoIsYou
Jan 28, 2009
If you're using a lye bath, no need to boil it. Dissolve the lye in lukewarm water and dip into that. You're precooking the crust chemically, rather than with heat.

WhoIsYou
Jan 28, 2009
You really want to let it cool first. You want the crumb to fully set, and you won't be able to taste the full range of flavors until the loaf has cooled to near room temperature. Sourdough breads are usually best after a few hours. And if you make a high percentage rye bread, it needs a full 24 hours to fully set.

The bowls of water, water spray bottles, soaked towels, etc. provide steam ate the beginning of the bake. The steam delays the formation of the crust, giving the loaf a greater oven spring and a thinner, crisper crust. Professional ovens are built to inject steam when the bread is loaded, so home bakers use water to mimic those ovens.

For a soft bread, you need a little sugar and a little fat to soften the crust and make a finer crumb. Something like a white pan loaf or a pain de mie.

WhoIsYou
Jan 28, 2009
Heritage Radio Network is doing an eight part mini-series in anticipation of the release of Modernist Bread. Too bad the books are even more expensive than Modernist Cuisine.

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WhoIsYou
Jan 28, 2009
If you're on a budget, you can use the plastic/wicker bread baskets that restaurants use for their bread service. Something like these. A generous dusting of rice flour and they work just fine.

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