Drug legalization thread

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Drug legalization thread

showbiz_liz: Jun 2, 2008

http://www.wtvm.com/story/19770355/efforts-to-legalize-marijuana-in-three-states-are-no-joke

quote:

In November, voters in Colorado, Washington and Oregon will consider legalizing marijuana for recreational use.

Although similar initiatives have failed in the past, this time the groups fighting to legalize pot are well-organized, professional and backed by high-dollar donors willing to outspend the competition.

In Colorado, the Campaign to Regulate Marijuana Like Alcohol has produced several advertisements that hammer home the idea that marijuana is healthier than alcohol. The campaign's website points to medical studies that claim marijuana, unlike alcohol, has not been linked to cancer, brain damage, addiction or high healthcare costs.

In an online video ad campaign, CRMLA has young adults explaining to their parents they prefer marijuana to alcohol. In one of the ads, titled Dear Mom, a 20-something woman tells her mother marijuana is "better for my body, I don't get hungover and honestly I feel safer around marijuana users."

In Washington, the approach is different. Rather than comparing marijuana to alcohol, New Approach Washington is focusing on the pragmatics of legalization, arguing prohibition of marijuana does more harm than good, by wasting tax dollars on law enforcement while making criminal organizations rich.

That message is conveyed through a popular television commercial where a suburban mom-type says, "I don't like it personally, but it's time for a conversation about legalizing marijuana. It's a multi-million dollar industry in Washington state, and we get no benefit."

She goes on to describe the possible benefits of legalization through saved law enforcement dollars and extra tax revenue.

These efforts appear to be working. In Washington, 50 percent of voters say marijuana should be legal while 38 percent say it should not, according to an Elway Research poll. And in Colorado, a Denver Post poll showed 51 percent of Coloradans were in favor of legalization, while 41 percent opposed it.

But like any political measure, getting a message out is not free � that's where the money comes in.

CRMLA was given nearly $1.2 million from the Marijuana Policy Project, a lobbying group based in Washington, D.C., as well as more than $800,000 by Peter Lewis, the founder and chairman of Progressive Insurance. Lewis has been a vocal proponent of marijuana legalization for several years and donated millions to legalization efforts around the country.

MPP's million-dollar contribution helped to pay for CRMLA staff and the production of its advertisements.

"We want to help get a message out there and stimulate people," said Steve Fox, director of state campaigns for MPP. "People have been hearing a lot of propaganda for about 30 to 40 years."

In total, groups in Colorado fighting to get marijuana legalized have a war chest of $2.5 million. In contrast, the only visible group opposing the marijuana ballot, SMART Colorado, has been given less than $200,000 - most of it from Save Our Society, a Florida-based anti-drug group.

SMART Colorado did not respond to a request for comment.

In Washington, the effort to legalize marijuana is being fought with a bankroll of between $4 and $5 million, according to Alison Holcomb, campaign director for NAW and drug policy director for the state's ACLU.

NAW's major donors also include Peter Lewis as well as the Drug Policy Alliance, a New York-based nonprofit. But NAW also has several significant donors from within the state, including famed travel writer and public television producer Rick Steves, philanthropist Harriet Bullit and Seattle businessman Bill Clapp.

"There's a number of local donors who, exactly like the majority of Americans, are coming forward and saying that 'I'm ready to try something new, and that doesn't mean I'm a stoner,'" Holcomb said.

NAW used those funds to put $1 million into television advertising during August, and hope to put triple that amount into the weeks preceding the November vote.

With their big budgets, both campaigns are working hard to get the "nontraditional" voter on their side. In this case, the prized voters are women.

"Across the board, women tend to be less supportive of legalization and regulation than men," Holcomb said. "And we definitely want to talk to women, especially those in the age ranges of being moms."

Mason Tvert, the head of CRMLA, also pointed out female voters will be needed.

"We're not relying entirely on college-aged voters," he said. "We're looking at women ages 30 to 55."

Holcomb explained one of the biggest concerns of marijuana legalization is what impact it will have on children. A focus of their coming ad blitz would be to convince women legalization and regulation means improved safety for children, she said.

A common argument among pro-legalization proponents is regulating marijuana would mean fewer kids were able to get it because they would need an I.D. for purchase, just like alcohol.

Although the money has been pouring in for both campaigns, the effort to get to this point did not happen overnight.

CRMLA's Tvert began a push toward legalization in 2005 on college campuses and eventually moved into ballot boxes. Successful efforts have included the elimination of arrests for small amounts of marijuana in the city of Denver and a state-wide law to allow medical marijuana.

The slowly but surely evolution of marijuana legislation is what has helped change people's attitudes towards the drug, Tvert said.

"Whether it's medical or non-medical, as there's more legislation coming up and more general assemblies around the country, there's more public dialogue," Tvert said.

He added when people hear the issues and the facts, they tend to agree it's irrational to keep marijuana illegal and treat people as criminals for using a substance less harmful than alcohol.

"So ultimately, we are seeing support for ending marijuana prohibition increase dramatically over the last decade, 15 years, and it's a result of people hearing more facts than ever before," Tvert said.

In Oregon, the effort to legalize marijuana has not had the financial backing seen in Colorado and Washington. The Associated Press reported the campaign behind the Oregon Tax Act has a mere $1,800 in its bank account after raising only $32,000.

A suspected reason for the lack of support there is the blemished financial background of the main petitioner, Paul Stanford. He has been sued by marijuana donors in the past who alleged he stole money.

Despite the lack of funding, a July poll showed Oregon voters evenly divided, with 43 percent in favor of legalization, 46 percent opposed to it, and 11 percent not sure.

Here's the language:
http://www.legalize2012.com/colorado.marijuana.legalization.language.html

So, what the hell is going to happen if this measure actually passes? The DEA already raids medical marijuana dispensaries; this would make marijuana 'legal' in Colorado not just for Colorado citizens, but for anyone who happens to be in Colorado. I can't imagine the federal government just allowing this to happen without a significant fuss. And, of course, they won't say what they'd do:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/03/how-will-feds-react-if-co_n_1935489.html

quote:

Paul Roach, spokesperson for the DEA, said the DEA does not have a position on the amendment. If it passes, Roach said the DEA will continue to enforce federal drug laws. �We don�t see that changing,� he said.

Local spokesperson for the Department of Justice, Jeff Dorschner, said �We don�t know what will happen if it passes. There are a variety of options, none of which I can discuss.�

Personally, I expect that if this thing passes, it will EVENTUALLY lead to the end of federal enforcement, but not before some serious growing pains, probably involving a Supreme Court case. But I live on the other side of the country- can anyone who lives in Colorado or one of the other two states chime in and talk about what the situation is there? Does this look like it will actually pass?

# ¿ Oct 11, 2012 01:00

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# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 18:54

showbiz_liz: Jun 2, 2008

cheapandugly posted:

The dispensaries and green doctors are fighting it so they can keep their profits on giving anyone with a loving backache a medical authorization.

This seems so ridiculous to me, at least on the part of the dispensaries. They already have the distribution channels set up, and legalization would only increase the market. Sure there'd be more competition too, but they are situated in such a way that they could be pretty dominant. But that would be too much ~work~ I guess

# ¿ Oct 11, 2012 04:25

showbiz_liz: Jun 2, 2008

gvibes posted:

Still not sure why this would be Supreme Court issue. This is clearly an area in which both state and federal laws coexist. There is no requirement that I know of that states can't not have laws against things that are illegal at the federal level.

Yeah, but if Colorado says it's legal and the feds say it isn't, then it's not really legal. The DEA doesn't HAVE to raid people, but that doesn't mean they won't.

# ¿ Oct 12, 2012 18:45

showbiz_liz: Jun 2, 2008

Knightmare posted:

In other news, unemployment hits a new high in Colorado and Washington when all companies in those states decide to randomly drug test their employees this week.

More like unemployment hits a new high in Colorado and Washington when every unemployed stoner in America buys a Greyhound ticket tomorrow morning

# ¿ Nov 7, 2012 07:06

showbiz_liz: Jun 2, 2008

Necc0 posted:

Obama says marijuana not 'top priority'

Looks like his response is about what we expected.

I did a major double-take at this: "More of Barbara Walters' exclusive first joint, post-election interview with President Obama and first lady Michelle Obama airs tonight"

More of Barbara Walters' exclusive first joint! Watch the distinguished journalist as she flies to Colorado and tries to discover what all the fuss is about! The results may surprise you...

# ¿ Dec 14, 2012 16:35

showbiz_liz: Jun 2, 2008

ChlamydiaJones posted:

I really don't know how this is going to work out. Acknowledging tourism seems like and interstate commerce problem.

I don't see how this counts as interstate commerce. Sounds like regular ol' one-state commerce to me.

I do wonder if Colorado can legally put weed-related things in tourism ads, though...

# ¿ Feb 20, 2013 19:55

showbiz_liz: Jun 2, 2008

eSports Chaebol posted:

On the other hand, the scenario you describe is the most plausible way for the Feds to eventually say, "Welp, nothing we can do about it" while being able to claim to be anti-pot the whole time, which is by far the most realistic scenario for legalization.

Gotta agree with this. Doing absolutely nothing about this issue is the safest strategy for any Democratic administration.

Also: Ha ha, joint committee, ho ho

# ¿ Mar 8, 2013 21:46

showbiz_liz: Jun 2, 2008

Xandu posted:

He misstated it, but it means that of a group of people born in the same period (I believe year in this case), half will eventually end up trying pot.

Yeah, I assume he didn't just say "half of America has tried pot" because it could be that 75% of Gosh-Darned Kids Today have tried it, but only 25% of Sensible Adults have tried it.

# ¿ Mar 27, 2013 15:16

showbiz_liz: Jun 2, 2008

http://www.npr.org/2013/04/20/178175575/shots-fired-at-colorado-pot-gathering

So somebody shot two people at a massive 4/20 rally in Denver, and of course...

quote:

A citizen advocacy group that opposes marijuana legalization, Smart Colorado, warned in a statement that public 4/20 celebrations "send a clear message to the rest of the nation and the world about what Colorado looks like."

"Does the behavior of the participants in these events reflect well on our state?" asked the head of Smart Colorado, Henny Lasley.

Makes sense to me! In related news, Boston prepares to ban marathons in the wake of the bombings.

# ¿ Apr 22, 2013 01:10

showbiz_liz: Jun 2, 2008

States already have the right to do some stuff but not other stuff. Anyone who isn't a hardcore secessionist believes in limiting state's rights to a certain degree, and anyone who doesn't want to eliminate the very concept of states believes in allowing state's rights to a certain degree. This argument is dumb.

# ¿ Apr 24, 2013 20:49

showbiz_liz: Jun 2, 2008

Install Gentoo posted:

He has not been hostile a single time, however you and others have been to him.

Except for him calling people assholes repeatedly?

# ¿ Jun 1, 2013 22:47

showbiz_liz: Jun 2, 2008

KingEup posted:

The people who 'would at least occasionally smoke weed if it were legal' are unlikely to be selecting their next holdiay destination based on the lawful availability of it.

Who are these people who haven't tried weed because it's 'all too hard/too much of a hassle' who would suddenly be prepared to invest effort into travelling thousands of miles to get it?

Do you know how many Americans travelled to Cuba during prohibition so that they could drink legally? Despite the fact that illegal alcohol was readily available in America? Because the stuff in Cuba was higher quality and you didn't have to go to a dank basement to drink it in secret? This is really not all that perplexing.

# ¿ Jun 16, 2013 01:57

showbiz_liz: Jun 2, 2008

Xelkelvos posted:

Also, on the subject of pollen, Bees. I could see a side business of at least smaller growers investing in bees to supplement income through "hemp honey" or whatever and helping pollination.

Bees don't pollinate marijuana.

# ¿ Sep 14, 2013 05:03

showbiz_liz: Jun 2, 2008

KingEup posted:

Would that she held the same contempt for a man whose racism and abuse of power has ruined the lives of thousands of people. Would that she label his behavior an indefensible affront to civil democratic society.

Wow, who thought that this was a good idea?

# ¿ Oct 31, 2013 15:41

showbiz_liz: Jun 2, 2008

KingEup posted:

Look at the opening line of this article:

Off to a great start... and then suddenly (next paragraph and out of the loving blue):

Say what?

This is actually not a bad article, it basically says "hey arresting small-time dealers and users is pointless and counterproductive and also we should probably be giving people more opportunities in life so they don't have to turn to dealing crack to make ends meet." It's just phrased in terms that can be easily understood by idiots who worship at the altar of ~business sense~

# ¿ Nov 11, 2013 17:11

showbiz_liz: Jun 2, 2008

Pryor on Fire posted:

So uh, you're still committing a federal crime if smoke legal marijuana and purchase a gun, right? Federal law and the NCIS 4473 question 11 e, specifically, supersede all this? Is that perjury or something else to lie on it?

There sure are a lot of pot smoking gun buyers out here in Colorado. Like hundreds of thousands easily. How plausible is it for the ATF or Attorney General or whoever to start going after people in both these groups?

Aren't you also committing a federal crime if you smoke 'legal' marijuana WITHOUT purchasing a gun?

# ¿ Nov 18, 2013 05:22

showbiz_liz: Jun 2, 2008

redshirt posted:

I'm surprised private clubs wouldn't be allowed. I'm thinking of the example of American Legion halls or Lions Clubs and the like which are members only, and get to skip a bunch of rules public bars have to follow - I'm thinking of cigarette smoking indoors, specifically.

I'd think MJ clubs will happen eventually. I certainly would not want to be the first one to try, though.

There's also stuff like hookah bars, which are legal in many areas where smoking indoors is banned.

But what would be really interesting would be for this sort of thing to become legal: http://www.gq.com/food-travel/recipes/201207/weed-and-stoner-food-recipes-robertas-brooklyn

# ¿ Nov 19, 2013 21:54

showbiz_liz: Jun 2, 2008

Baroti posted:

In case anyone hasn't seen it yet NY just introduced a legalization bill.

http://www.nysenate.gov/press-release/sen-krueger-introduces-bill-regulate-and-tax-marijuana-new-york-state

http://politicker.com/2013/12/pols-begin-push-to-legalize-marijuana-in-new-york-state/

quote:

Riding high on optimism,

Ugh.

# ¿ Dec 12, 2013 22:09

showbiz_liz: Jun 2, 2008

TenementFunster posted:

edit: hahaha I just looked up garden city on Wikipedia - it's 0.1sq miles with ~ 350 residents and completely surrounded by the city of Greeley. bold move, guys.

Not only that: "Garden City was founded in 1935 as a base for saloons and liquor stores serving residents of nearby Greeley, which was then a dry city." Keep that tradition goin', guys!

# ¿ Dec 28, 2013 19:20

showbiz_liz: Jun 2, 2008

NathanScottPhillips posted:

Marijuana is so much closer to tobacco in the way it's used and it's psychoactive effects than it is to alcohol. I've said it before but a good cigar will knock me on my rear end faster than a bong full of the dankest weed.

Wow, what? You must be some kind of mutant then because this is not the case for like... anyone else I've ever spoken to.

NathanScottPhillips posted:

All smoke stinks, no need to discriminate between a joint and a commercial cigarette full of industrial chemicals.

Tobacco is a plant too ya know

# ¿ Dec 30, 2013 17:28

showbiz_liz: Jun 2, 2008

NathanScottPhillips posted:

I made a point in that post but you specifically deleted it. Are you just trying to be argumentative or...?

I just think it doesn't really help the cause when people say things like "weed is just like tobacco only not made of evil chemicals," when weed is really nothing like tobacco and tobacco isn't made of chemicals.

# ¿ Dec 30, 2013 18:05

showbiz_liz: Jun 2, 2008

Powercrazy posted:

I don't think anyone disagrees with that, but as it is, you can't even have dedicated smoking places. As in a place with the explicit purpose of hanging out with friends and smoking in a public place.

Are hookah bars not strictly legal, or is there a legal exception of some kind for them?

# ¿ Dec 31, 2013 23:45

showbiz_liz: Jun 2, 2008

Powercrazy posted:

NY State is slowly coming around, it will most likely go the Medical->Retail route unfortunately, so I don't expect anything happening soon.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/05/us/new-york-medical-marijuana/

Apparently it will be "limited and cumbersome," woo! It is being done via executive order since apparently it would be quite difficult to get any sort of bill through the legislature, so it makes sense that it's starting small. If you're already single-handedly making a federal crime 'legal' in your state with no one else to blame for potential failures, you probably won't want to make it a free-for-all right away.

quote:

Under [Governor] Cuomo's directive, the state health department would take charge by setting up the guidelines and picking hospitals that would take part. These hospitals would then have panels of people who decide, on a person-by-person basis, which patients qualify for medical marijuana.

It has yet to be determined where the medical marijuana -- or the elements of it that might be dispensed -- will come from, including who might produce it.

# ¿ Jan 6, 2014 17:12

showbiz_liz: Jun 2, 2008

WampaLord posted:

This. This so hard. Once CO releases a budget that shows all the money weed brought them, every state with a budget problem will be racing to legalize it.

On the other hand, every crime committed by anyone in Colorado with weed in their system will be blown into an Epidemic of Reefer Violence on cable news. That's what I'm worried about.

# ¿ Jan 6, 2014 18:32

showbiz_liz: Jun 2, 2008

TenTonHammer posted:

Let me ask this, as the "bad guy" so to speak. My employer asked me the other day, in terms of states passing this, and since I do the drug testing as the safety coordinator for the company, what if an employee goes out of state to a state that allows this, uses it, then comes to work within the 30 or so days that its in his system? Just curious in terms of random testing.

Well, that's pretty much up to your employer, isn't it?

# ¿ Jan 6, 2014 20:40

showbiz_liz: Jun 2, 2008

Powercrazy posted:

While I'm glad that CO has legalized weed, I'm not sure what kind of impact it's going to have the prison population. Especially since the current legal market can't match the volume of the black market. There are already retail stores out of weed, and while i'm sure a lot of the demand is because of novelty, eventually people are going to call their old dealer up and get most of their weed that way.

Even if that happened, no one could be busted for possession.

# ¿ Jan 6, 2014 21:50

showbiz_liz: Jun 2, 2008

Yiggy posted:

The person in line near me that seemed the most up-to-date on his info seemed convinced that suppliers will never feel any pressure to lower prices

They will once a competitor realizes they can undercut everyone else in town by charging less, but probably that will have to wait until everyone is reasonably sure that the DEA isn't gonna arrest every legal weed store in Colorado or whatever.

Edit: I guess you can't arrest a store but whatever

showbiz_liz fucked around with this message at 17:52 on Jan 8, 2014

# ¿ Jan 8, 2014 17:38

showbiz_liz: Jun 2, 2008

TheRamblingSoul posted:

The money train keeps on a-rollin'...

Source

Is there some sort of law requiring every article about marijuana to contain at least one stupid pun? "A lot of green" my rear end.

# ¿ Jan 9, 2014 18:05

showbiz_liz: Jun 2, 2008

"The body can process alcohol, and in many studies, a few drinks have been proven to have health benefits. Marijuana, on the other hand, is simply a toxin."

1. What
2. Alcohol is processed by the liver specifically because it is a toxin
3. What

# ¿ Jan 10, 2014 00:08

showbiz_liz: Jun 2, 2008

Parlett316 posted:

That's interesting, will you get probated if you can't prove you live in Colorado?

Even if you don't live in Colorado, you can buy in Colorado. But on the other hand, it's still technically illegal...

# ¿ Jan 10, 2014 18:42

showbiz_liz: Jun 2, 2008

KingEup posted:

The NYTimes:

Of loving course this series of articles is called High Time. OF COURSE.

Edit: "On Monday at 4:20 p.m. Eastern Time, Andrew Rosenthal, the editorial page editor, will be taking questions about marijuana legalization at facebook.com/nytimes."

# ¿ Jul 27, 2014 16:40

showbiz_liz: Jun 2, 2008

Dr.Caligari posted:

I always trust my mechanic too. That's what they are trained for and wouldn't ever possibly over or under-fix a problem. They are professionals after all

Yeah, so I'll just google some poo poo and try to fix my car, I'm guaranteed to do a better job than those so-called "professional" "mechanics"

Being wary and open to skepticism is different than just reflexively dismissing everything that experts say. The impulse to do so is why we have all these fuckfaces not vaccinating their kids, denying global warming, etc.

# ¿ Aug 18, 2014 03:10

showbiz_liz: Jun 2, 2008

snorch posted:

I am sort of curious what they do with someone who comes to the ER for weed reasons. Do they just take a pulse, go "yep it weed" and bill you?

A while ago I had a panic attack while smoking alone and I genuinely thought I was choking, so I called an ambulance. The guys who responded told me they were 99% sure there was nothing physically wrong with me, but said they'd take me in if I asked them to. I'd just gotten some new insurance and I still felt like my airway was obstructed (it probably wasn't, spoiler alert), so I decided to go in.

Basically, the answer to your question is yes. You'll be checked for anything else it could be (they humored me by examining my airway thoroughly), monitored until you chill out, and then released.

I wasn't given any medication at the hospital. (I also wasn't asked if I or my family had a history of anxiety or panic disorders, which we very much do.)

# ¿ Nov 3, 2014 20:42

showbiz_liz: Jun 2, 2008

Tab8715 posted:

I'm a little surprised given how liberal NYC is, what does he have to lose?

New York State isn't NYC, and there's a lot of weird resentment at the state level about the two being conflated.

# ¿ Nov 14, 2014 19:42

showbiz_liz: Jun 2, 2008

AYC posted:

I've learned from this thread that marijuana must be completely legal with no restrictions whatsoever and you're Michelle Leonhart if you disagree.

I mean I get D&D's a circlejerk, but you think people'd get sick of patting each other on the back over and over.

Continuing to have the same opinion about something after having given it some thought: super annoying. People should arbitrarily change their political stances just to mix it up.

# ¿ Dec 8, 2014 14:27

showbiz_liz: Jun 2, 2008

GhostofJohnMuir posted:

Making a sandwich is incredibly easy and people still flock to Subway.

Precisely.

# ¿ Apr 13, 2015 21:21

showbiz_liz: Jun 2, 2008

MaxxBot posted:

The fact that the recreational vote was so close gives me a lot of hope.

I would never in a million years have guessed it would be that close. Wow.

# ¿ Jun 7, 2015 19:54

showbiz_liz: Jun 2, 2008

KingEup posted:

The High Priest of cannabis prohibition has spoken!

"losers"

# ¿ Jun 16, 2015 17:32

showbiz_liz: Jun 2, 2008

TapTheForwardAssist posted:

My conspiracy theory: the monopoly guys know a non-oligarch version is likely to win in 2016, so by running it in 2015 they won't have any real competition, and with enough true believers and enough cash they may be able to shove it through. If I were Ohioan, I wouldn't volunteer on their campaign (let them spend their own money) but I would vote for it and encourage others to do. It still makes one more free state, adds momentum to the cause, and we can fight the monopoly later, especially once it's federally legal and unions of many other growers can muscle in and buy influence (or sue for trade restriction) to expand the number of grow sites.

Some Ohioans I know were talking about the referendum on Facebook and they were all saying "I feel like I don't know enough about this to decide either way how to vote." What you posted here seems like a pretty reasonable stance - would you say you still feel this way about it?

# ¿ Oct 7, 2015 16:52

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# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 18:54

showbiz_liz: Jun 2, 2008

How are u posted:

One step at a time, man. Legal weed is already changing people's broader opinions. It is the hole in the dike.

I absolutely think this is true. I mean, it's the reason people always decried weed as a 'gateway drug' in the first place - because once you become familiar with it, it really puts the lie to a lot of the other things you've been led to believe about drugs in general.

# ¿ Oct 22, 2015 17:33

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