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I think what he's saying is that Abrams may make a movie like Star Trek was where every scene is him saying to the audience "See? See? I loved these movies as a kid and now I'm referencing them! But wait, theres a twist to surprise you based on your previous knowledge of these characters! Ahura kisses Spock, not Kirk! Get it?" It could get in the way of just making a kick rear end space opera ala Star Wars. On the other hand, the "love letter" that was brought up is Super 8, which I didn't feel had any of those problems. So who knows.
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Nov 6, 2013 22:22
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Has there been any official statements about how the new movies will deal with all the EU stuff that's been officially cannon for like 15 years? I'm totally fine with them completely ignoring all that, just wondering if I should be expecting a Thrawn appearance or not.
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Dec 18, 2013 22:21
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I think it would be interesting for Thrawn to show up in some capacity in the new movies. I don't really care if its at all related to the books, but the Thrawn character is a really cool idea. At least I hope they go with the premise that there are remnants of The Empire out there that still control gigantic gently caress-off Star Destroyers and they can basically act as independent warlords.
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Dec 30, 2013 17:59
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Red posted:I think SMG is talking about AT-ATs for the sake of the theme he had explained within the single film. You don't see AT-ATs elsewhere in TESB. It seems like he often includes some specific detail in his reading that turns out to be wrong, but when that's pointed out he's always got a way of explaining why it wasn't really all that relevant to his point anyway. I know its at least happened one other time. See: the Lucky Number Slevin thread from a while back Basebf555 fucked around with this message at 20:13 on Jan 8, 2014 |
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Jan 8, 2014 20:11
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:You've actually missed the point. I was saying that the ATATs are not a recurring enemy in the plot - unlike the Death Star, the plot does not center around the grave threat posed by ATATs, and how the rebels must unite to stop them. I just think its a problem that will inevitably come up when you try to write complex readings of films you actually haven't watched recently. If I was going to bring ATATs into a discussion about the themes of Star Wars, I'd make sure I re-watched the movies first so that I had a good working knowledge of where and how ATATs are used in the films. I find it hard to believe that you have an encyclopedic knowledge of when this ship or that gun is used in Star Wars(because nobody should), yet you didn't hesitate to tell us how important a detail it is that ATATs only ever appear once. That turned out to not be correct, but you can't just say you remembered wrong, no it was actually not relevant to your point all along. I'm just saying I'm noticing a pattern here.
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Jan 8, 2014 21:05
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Well to be honest I do still remember that Slevin thread and really thought he was a dick in there, so I was quick to jump on this one. If remembering that thread from a few months ago is creepy then I guess I'm guilty.
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Jan 8, 2014 21:27
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Lord Krangdar posted:But in that thread the shot sequence he referenced that supposedly wasn't in the movie actually was in the movie (I found it and posted it). Really? Maybe I ducked out of that thread early then. If that's the case then I wholeheartedly apologize to SMG.
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Jan 8, 2014 22:07
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I wonder what would have happened if Luke had his epiphany and laid down his lightsaber in the middle of the Vader duel in ESB. Would Vader have been able to see the light right then and there? If not, I'd have to say Yoda was correct in trying to hold Luke back because he knew there was no scenario where he could defeat Vader, via love or otherwise. Maybe Yoda knew exactly what Luke would have to do, but he knew neither he nor Vader were ready to accept the truth yet.
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Jan 16, 2014 20:37
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Cheesus posted:Without Luke going to Cloud City, Leia, Chewbacca, and 3PO would have been captives of the Empire. Aaaah poo poo, I can't believe I forgot about the biggest twist in movie history! Yea if Luke doesn't go to Cloud City there he might not have ever found out about Vader's past and things in RotJ would have been much different. As you say, it must have been the "will of the force".
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Jan 16, 2014 20:47
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ShineDog posted:I think the low point of both the prequels and the special editions has to be that loving song and dance routine in ROTJ. A serious case of the whats, right there. I remember at that time it was a big deal that this completely CGI character could sing and dance and everything and it didn't look like complete poo poo(at that time). I don't know that Lucas put any more thought into it than that, I think he was really just playing with the new technology there. There's a lot of things in the special editions that are absolutely unnecessary to the story, because I think Lucas was pretty happy with the story, he just felt like the movie he filmed didn't look like the one in his head.
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Jan 17, 2014 15:42
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ShineDog posted:Clone wars makes largely likable characters out of all the Jedi that get casually gunned down in episode three, so that was a fun evening. Yea they took all the Jedi that have one or two appearances in the prequels and actually did something with them. It really does change the impact of the Order 66 scene because you recognize almost all of them.
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Jan 29, 2014 15:48
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Nothing with the Star Wars name on it will ever be a commercial failure because the same people that bitch and complain about how terrible it is will still go see it, probably multiple times.
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Feb 21, 2014 21:19
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You can't really separate the two. Anakin's story is the story of the fall of the Republic, and the fall of the Republic is the story of the Jedi's failure to properly teach/mentor their prophesized chosen one(demonstrating that they too had lost touch with the true meaning of the Force). The Republic doesn't fall without the fall of Anakin, and Anakin would have turned out much differently if the Jedi had been able to identify the Sith in their midst earlier. The movies are the story of all of this, its all interconnected, which I think adds to the tragedy of it all.
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Feb 27, 2014 21:21
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Since the hexalogy is cyclical, there already is an Episode 7. It's called The Phantom Menace. How exactly are you reading the ending of Return of the Jedi as a failure? I see it as Vader bringing balance to the force by killing the Emperor(and himself), and Luke succeeds in turning away from the dark side because he refused to kill his father. I could understand what you're saying if Luke had executed Vader and the Emperor and just changed the name of the Empire to the Republic, but he turned away from all that, which I saw as a victory.
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Mar 18, 2014 21:40
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But why do we assume that Luke doesn't go on to found a totally new Jedi Order with different ideals based on what he's learned from Vader? The movie ends before Luke has a chance to plan his next move doesn't it? I guess when he says "I am a Jedi, like my father before me" that suggests maybe he missed the point.
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Mar 19, 2014 14:37
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THE BAR posted:I thought that the point behind Prometheus was to break canon as much as possible, while trying to sell it as a traditional prequel to the previous Alien films? Playing on people's expectations? It didn't really "break canon" in terms of the Alien franchise, it just didn't really have much of a direct connection to it at all. I think SuperMechagodzilla is more talking about the themes and what the Shaw character represents, all of which I know he can articulate much better than I can. In fact I'm sure he will shortly.
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Mar 21, 2014 14:25
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Discussing Carrie Fisher's history with drugs isn't the same thing as just saying she's a fat-rear end goblin that has no business appearing on-screen. Who cares what she looks like now? She'll be playing a character roughly her own age and won't have to wear anything revealing or have any kind of sex appeal. Nobody expects Leia to still be hot after 30 years, all that matters is if Fisher can still handle a rigorous shooting schedule with her known issues.
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Apr 8, 2014 20:52
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Yea I never thought about it but giving Luke the name Skywalker had to be bait for Vader. Kenobi is pretty old and washed up by the time we see him in ANH, but there were twenty or so years where he would have been just hiding out waiting for Vader to show up so he could have another shot at him. I can't think of any other reason why they wouldn't have changed Luke's name.
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Apr 17, 2014 17:42
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This has been a slow train comin for like 15 years, ever since the prequels were announced. If you were way into the EU in 1998 or whatever that was probably the time to come to terms with the fact that there was a non-zero chance that movies would continue to be made and the EU would have to be discarded. These people needed to be thinking of all of that stuff as just one way things could go after the OT, not canon. All of this just feels so inevitable, I can't believe they couldn't see it coming. And I suppose its because I like comic book characters, but I love the idea of having different versions of the same story out there. Its hard for me to grasp why that really is a problem for anybody.
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Apr 25, 2014 20:20
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reignofevil posted:I think that if this is your honest attempt at reading my posts it is no wonder that we find such differing opinions on things! What he's trying to say is that in your seemingly tireless effort to define and re-define your stated opinion, you end up contradicting yourself and making broad statements that you present as fact but are just as much a matter of opinion as anything else. And you also end up saying a lot without really talking about the actual films. For example, in one of your earlier posts you present "entertainment" as being defined as "time spent feeling pleasure". Why you feel the need to have some super-specific definition of entertainment I have no idea, and then the definition you come up doesn't even come close to encompassing everything the word "entertainment" actually signifies. And you're also the one who seems to be complaining about people being too pedantic! So the point is that you're spending a whole lot of time and effort without actually putting forth any real ideas about these movies.
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May 1, 2014 21:11
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reignofevil posted:I can see how you could reach this position. I may be conflating the two wrongly. No, we all understand that your position is the prequels were not competently made. Unless you're going to add something of substance to that position I can't think of any reason to give a poo poo.
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May 1, 2014 21:16
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Jerk McJerkface posted:I'm going on a limb and saying the reason we have CGI robots fighting CGI fish people is because George Lucas thought it looked cool, and he was trying to make his movie family friendly in his own way by not having two huge armies of real people murdering each other. Don't forget he's a lazy film maker and would rather sit in an office and look at his renders than try to manage and shoot a gigantic outdoor foot battle. Its almost like it was a.... Phantom Menace. But seriously, I think you're making a good point about the economics of these movies. We'll never know specifics, but its very possible a lot of decisions were made purely with marketing and merchandising in mind, and for me that takes away from the enjoyment of reading a film. By the time the prequels were being made Star Wars was much more of a brand than a film series.
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May 8, 2014 20:37
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I don't really see how Lucas is even relevant to this. There were a shitload of people working on these films, just because Lucas had final say on things doesn't mean everyone involved was mindlessly throwing CGI heads into backgrounds just to see if George might think it looks cool. Artists put thought into their art, that's the default position you should go with unless evidence shows otherwise.
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May 9, 2014 16:32
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Maybe its not so much giving yourself over to the Force as accepting your place in it, which Anakin was able to do in the end. Sith try to bend the Force to serve their own selfish purposes, and I suppose many Jedi, no matter how righteous, haven't come to terms with their role as a conduit for it.
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May 15, 2014 15:06
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Slugworth posted:Well sure, if their parents hate them. My nephews saw the original trilogy like 10 times before the prequels. They totally like the prequels, but seem more fixated on the originals. All is as it should be. Yea I mean if you are just taking your kids to see the new Star Wars movie so they'll shut up about it then they probably are into it enough to have seen the originals. And if you are dragging them along because of your own nostalgia then you've probably forced them to watch the originals at some point. I doubt this will be the first Star Wars experience for many kids.
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May 16, 2014 16:18
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Its pretty amazing how long people go in life with the idea that their definition of "lovely" or "an enjoyable experience" is shared by everybody. Duh, when I say The Phantom Menace is lovely I mean it wasn't an enjoyable experience! What's the problem? Why are you still confused, I stated very clearly that it WASN'T AN ENJOYABLE EXPERIENCE. What more do I have to say!
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May 20, 2014 17:52
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When you think about it there really aren't a whole lot of established planets in the canon if we're throwing out the EU. There's the big ones from the movies like Tatooine, Endor, Yavin, Dagobah, and Coruscant, but that's kind of it. The wookie planet is another but if they are going for planets already established in the six previous movies the options are kind of limited.
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May 22, 2014 21:09
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Kurtofan posted:The Clone Wars is still canon, and they visit a lot of planets in this series. Good point, there's probably 10-15 new planets established in Clone Wars, although I'm sure most of those also originated in the EU. As long as their are going to pull only what they want from the EU and nothing more then I'm sure it'll be fine.
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May 22, 2014 21:18
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Clone Wars somehow makes Dooku even more cool and badass than live action Christopher Lee. In general it has a lot of really good villains, and most of them are original to the series. Hondo is hilarious.
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May 23, 2014 18:21
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The first really terrible new Star Wars movie will still make a ton of money. In fact maybe the second one too. It will take several terrible movies for the fans to wise up and stop going. This is all hypothetical of course, I'm pretty optimistic they will be at least decent.
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May 23, 2014 21:13
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Lobok posted:The non-trilogy movies are the real key to longevity, too. Not just in terms of number of movies, but because the consistent storyline and particular actors are the biggest strengths but also the biggest liabilities of any franchise. If people get tired of Depp then what do you do about PotC? Can you recast? If people don't like your superhero movie then do you have to reboot? If the last story went off the rails, can you pull them back? I don't think Star Wars really is susceptible to these things like most other franchises. There's nobody like Depp that is absolutely necessary, and there's really no need for them to worry about the story "going off the rails". As far as most Star Wars fans are concerned the story went off the rails with the prequels and it won't stop them from seeing these new ones. I'd almost call it like a type of faith at this point. I'm not sure any amount of evidence will stop people from making any movie with the Star Wars name attached a financial success.
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May 23, 2014 21:55
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Yea I'd bet a shitload of money that Ford wouldn't have agreed to be in this unless Han would be killed off.
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Jun 27, 2014 21:25
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They absolutely should design a knee brace that has a Star Wars look to it and just write it into the story. Han's leg was crippled at some point in the past 30 years, big deal.
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Jul 1, 2014 16:21
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Neo Rasa posted:I really do hope a bunch of things that go nowhere are put in. I'm in love with the idea of infuriating fans by having Thrawn walk by in a scene and having nothing come of it ever. Also doesn't Mara Jade have bright red hair? I'm just trying to think of EU characters that have obvious looks that could walk through a scene and do absolutely nothing.
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Jul 24, 2014 16:29
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Sentinel Red posted:Let me get this right: in a series where the last set of films had terribly issues with poorly crammed in, fan service bullshit, people are moaning now because JJ won't bother to squeeze in a barely mobile geriatric purely for fan service? Yea I'm definitely of the opinion that the old cast being such a major focus could be a good thing or a very bad thing, and we won't know which until we actually see the movie.
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Jul 24, 2014 17:46
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Han's dialogue should be nothing but Indiana Jones references.
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Jul 24, 2014 18:46
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LesterGroans posted:Kingdom of the Crystal Skull and 42. Yea I've seen Crystal Skull twice now since the original theatre run and his performance is fine. The movie has other problems, they just don't have anything to do with him. I think some people are reacting to the fact that he looks and moves like a 70 year old man, but there's no way around that because he is.
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Aug 13, 2014 21:04
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Opinions about the prequels have become really weird over the years. Sometimes when someone is talking poo poo about the prequels its hard to know whether they're just saying that because its the "correct" opinion to have about them. Often if you press someone for more specific criticism you get a dismissive "Come on dude, we both know their poo poo movies" type answer. As a Star Wars fan its been a very interesting experience these past years having gone to see Phantom Menace in the theatre like everybody else, and then watching as people all came to their own realizations about what they thought about it over the course of a pretty extended amount of time. Its just so rare for the release of any movie to be that highly anticipated, so it really became impossible to form a true opinion too soon after seeing it. People really needed time to absorb the experience and decide if they actually enjoyed themselves or not.
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Aug 21, 2014 21:02
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:It's not inaccurate to say that fans want a totally different film, but it's most accurate to say they want a film that cannot exist. It's a fantasy of perfect fulfillment - something that recaptures a childhood they never had, that exists only in memory. I think the "nonexistent thing" that youre talking about is nostalgia. As a kid I watched the Star Wars films over and over again in my basement until my parents yelled down for me to go outside and get some fresh air. These movies meant a lot to me as a kid, and that feeling is still there anytime I watch them. There's just no way to purposefully reproduce that kind of nostalgia, and we shouldn't expect any film to do it. As you say, its an unfair expectation that the prequels were burdened with.
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Aug 21, 2014 21:29
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euphronius posted:You would have the same feelings for the prequels if you watched them at age 6 in the basement though. Who's to say? The point is you can never go back to that time in your life when these nostalgic feelings were created and to expect new films to recreate them is unreasonable.
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Aug 21, 2014 23:41
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