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GD_American
Jul 21, 2004

LISTEN TO WHAT I HAVE TO SAY AS IT'S INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT!
1. The slut of our AIT class had to use the bathroom. She was gone for four hours. She comes back to class, bleary-eyed, with a perfect beet red tattoo of a BDU button dead set in the middle of her forehead. She swears up and down she wasn't sleeping. Off to the counselor!


2. OK, the "lower enlisted buys car he can't afford" story. Me and an E-6 in my unit did budget/credit classes in spare time (this was my last year in, cadre at a TRADOC unit, except we were a field platoon). We gave out our personal numbers. We told them before you look at cars, call us. We told them, we'll go with you on our day off to help you look at cars. Don't buy a drat car without getting some advice first. Please don't.

Monday morning, after PT, coming in at 9, a PFC from that E-6's section pulls up in a brand new Dodge Nitro. Black, RIMZ, aftermarket stereo. Everyone in the unit oohs and ahhs. After first formation, me and his E-6 walk him out to his car. I notice there's already 1500 miles on it. I ask him how much he's paying for it. He says he got a great deal. I ask him how much he's paying for it. He says 500 a month. I said "not how much a month, how much does it cost total." He doesn't know. I ask how many years is the loan. He doesn't know. The E-6 asks him what interest rate. He doesn't know. I ask him without looking, tell me how many miles are on it. He guesses 50. The E-6 asks him how much he's paying on insurance. He doesn't know.

He accuses us of hating, because he's showing my Miata and the E-6's SVT Cobra up. Says he got a great deal. The dealership even put too much money on the loan paperwork, so they cut him a check for the difference (1200 bucks) right there. "Cash back!" he smiles. We sigh. March him (literally, marched him across Barton Field) to 1SG's office. Send him home to get paperwork. A year old, 1500 mile Dodge Nitro, 72 months at 21.5 percent APR. They got him a 10-day no-name dogshit insurance policy to get him sold. He tries to tell 1SG about how he got cash back. 1SG looks at him and screams "YOU'RE PAYING TWENTY PERCENT INTEREST ON THAT TOO, YOU STUPID MOTHERFUCKER!". He washes his hands of it all. Tells me and the E-6 to see if anything can be done.

We go to the dealer, knowing full well they're not taking it back. The PFC tries to claim to the dealer he's got 3 days to change his mind. The dealer tells him that's not true. I tell him it's not true. His E-6 says that's not true. He still argues. His E-6 locks him up at parade rest right there in the dealership office.

It gets better. That was Monday. On Wednesday after work, we're having a barbecue to send off one of our guys who re-enlisted to go to 67th Sig, who was deploying. It's on family housing in Fort Gordon. The PFC comes with his family. I learn he (a 22 year old schmuck) has married a 30-something fat woman with two kids already. The kids are hellions. His wife is dull and collects ceramic something. He has a few beers, gets into a fight with her. He gets in his brand new-ish Nitro, which was parked on a grassy strip, and 20 feet from us in the backyard barbecue, peels out on the grass and guns it down the road.

WOOOWOWOWOWOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. Base police was literally 500 feet behind him, turning into family housing. Sees him peel out. Hits the lights, and gets him on a DUI- right in front of his entire platoon and chain. 30 people reach for their cellphones at the same time.

Thursday is the whole platoon in Class A's, writing out sworn statements en masse, and going into 1SG's office in singles or small groups to get screamed at. My turn is me by myself, and 1SG asks "You knew that motherfucker was dumb as a box of rocks, why didn't you stop him?"

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iyaayas01
Feb 19, 2010

Perry'd

Godholio posted:

Oh man that would've been a fun conversation if it was one of my guys. "Now, explain to me the thought process that ended with: I know! I'll call her a oval office! That'll improve the situation!" I think I would have no choice but to use the word repeatedly throughout the counseling, just to make it as awkward as humanly possible.

It happened a few months after I left the bomb dump, so I didn't get to have that conversation, but if I had I would've done the same thing.

Bathroom naps are the right of every Airman, though.

Mad Dragon
Feb 29, 2004

GD_American posted:

30 people reach for their cellphones at the same time.

Photo opportunity? :v:

The only dumb car story I have is the E-5 buying a Mitsubishi 3000GT VR-4 (this is when it was still a new ~$50k model) with his re-enlistment money. Eventually, he had to sell it, and he bought a Galant VR-4.

Val Helmethead
Apr 24, 2009

Pittsburgh is stored in the balls.

I had this fellow in my EMT-B class who looked like he got hit with a shovel to the face twice. Once with the sharp edge to cut a scar above his nose, the other with the flat end to smush all his features down. Let's call him Shovelface. The first day of class, we are all sitting down filling out paperwork when our instructor explains how we need to fill out a criminal history background (tell us anything you were ever arrested for - felonies only) and then sign an authorization for a criminal history check. Can't just give medical certifications to any old felon, right?

Well, Shovelface raises his hand high and asks, in front of the entire class, if it is okay that he is indited, but "not convicted, yet?". Instructor looks at him, eyes wide in a stare and just responds "We'll talk about it after class".

Well, it turns out this isn't my Fire Department's first experience with Shovelface. It turns out this guy really, really wants into emergency services. Several of our officers have trained him at various times for the Essentials of Fire Fighting, and multiple guys have trained with him before. Here are those stories:

- Shovelface and his class are doing ladder training in the middle of the hot 90+ degree summer. Our instructor, now an Lt. at our department, tells everyone they can open up their bunker gear to stay cool. Just wear boots, helmet, gloves and eye protection. Shovelface insists on wearing full bunker gear. Lt. again says to him that he will overheat on a day like that, and stresses that he should open up. Shovelface insists that he will "practice how he plays". Lt. asks point blank if Shovelface is in fact ignoring his instructions. Shovelface agrees that yes, he is. 45 minutes later Shovelface is getting an IV of fluid from the paramedics and being treated for heat stroke.

- Shovelface has failed, and his taking the class again. Now he is bragging to his class about how in shape he is (he's a fat gently caress) and telling them the secret to how he stays in shape. He asks the instructor (another officer of my department) if he wants to know his secret. The instructor decides to humor him. Shovelface says that his secret is "dating two girls at once!". The instructor knew one of the two girls, and called her up:
:v: : So which one are you?
;-* : Huh, what do you mean?
:v: : I'm here talking to Shovelface and he says he has two girlfriends. I just wanted to know which one are you?
;-* : No, he said he wasn't with her anymore...
:v: : That's not what he's telling me!
The next time in class, Shovelface is complaining to the instructor about how he's having girl troubles.

- Shovelface is again bragging to his class about how in shape he is. Some of my fellow firefighters are in class with him. One of them says - "I'll bet your not as in shape as my friend here, he can do 50 pushups!" Shovelface immediately drops down and starts counting off pushups. Guy lets him do about 15 or so and then says "No, no you're doing them all wrong! You have to clap between each one!" Cue Shovelface clapping after each pushup. He only makes it to about 10 or so before quitting. Reason? He was "too tired from exercising last night, but he could definitely do that".

- Shovelface got put in "Double Secret Probation" with his department for posing in his turnout gear for "sexy" photo shoots that he uploaded to the internet.

- Shovelface then got kicked out of his department for explaining - on camera, to a news crew, at an active fire scene - that he wanted to be a police officer. Why? "So I can beat up people, and not get in trouble."

Oh, and to wrap things up, one day Shovelface doesn't show up for EMT class anymore. Why? Oh, because the reason he was "not convicted yet" was, in his words, "[local municipality] not recognizing the Castle Doctrine". Because he got arrested for pulling a gun on a guy at a gas station. A gun that wasn't his, and was unregistered. Long story short, he went from "not convicted yet" to "definitely convicted".

MancXVI
Feb 14, 2002

SquirrelyPSU posted:

I had a Chief that was so dumb that I can't even recall anecdotes because it causes my body to twitch uncontrollably with rage.

I think he was rated twice (MM and something else......CS maybe?) before he became an FC and somehow fluked into getting picked up for Chief while he was in C School before deploying. oh wait there goes the twitching again

I managed to talk some sense into my division officer and he got his rear end sent to the mess decks, where he eventually had a break down and got flown back to Everett mid deployment.
Something about that sounds familiar. Did he happen to use his government travel card to get shithoused at Tulalip?

kathmandu
Jul 11, 2004

GD_American posted:

off one of our guys who re-enlisted to go to 67th Sig,

Looks like you just won the thread.

polpot saved asia
Aug 28, 2011

kathmandu posted:

Looks like you just won the thread.

he won every thread ever. man gently caress ft Gordon.

GD_American
Jul 21, 2004

LISTEN TO WHAT I HAVE TO SAY AS IT'S INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT!

kathmandu posted:

Looks like you just won the thread.

He was warned (67th and 69th had Army-wide bad reputations), but I can empathize. He went right to our unit (442nd Sig) straight out of AIT, and had never been in a line unit and wanted to deploy. Our unit, assholes that they were, would only ok the 4187 if you re-upped to boost their numbers.

SquirrelyPSU
May 27, 2003


MancXVI posted:

Something about that sounds familiar. Did he happen to use his government travel card to get shithoused at Tulalip?

I always tried to find confirmation of this (the story that we all knew is that he ended up getting arrested after jumping into the fountain), so I just hold it as urban rumor.

calmasahinducow
Oct 31, 2004
i am a pirate of the high seas

GD_American posted:

He was warned (67th and 69th had Army-wide bad reputations), but I can empathize. He went right to our unit (442nd Sig) straight out of AIT, and had never been in a line unit and wanted to deploy. Our unit, assholes that they were, would only ok the 4187 if you re-upped to boost their numbers.

gently caress Ft. Gordon indeed. What did you do in 442nd?

The biggest idiot I met was this Pakistani dude in Basic. Dude was 26 years old and enlisted as an 88M Option 4. This dude was just hosed up in every single way you could imagine. He had a terrible stuttering problem, he couldn't march in step, he couldn't shoot, and he couldn't PT. Basically he failed every single thing you could fail at BCT. During BRM he shot a 0/40, and no he didn't shoot the wrong lane. He finally qualified after about 1200 rounds because it was getting dark and a drill sergeant got down in the next lane and shot his pop ups for him. He constantly tried to DOR but somehow the company commander wouldn't chapter him out despite multiple instances of being hosed up. During our graduation he was the only one that marched out of step. It looked loving retarded.

One of my favorite memories is during the last week of Basic, a drill sergeant smoking the poo poo out of him for not doing the 8 count push up correctly. So because he can't do the 8 count push up, the corrective training was doing more 8 count push ups...for about 2 hours. While the rest of us were at parade rest watching.

After BCT he graduated from AIT and went to Airborne where I ran into him while I was at OCS. He failed the PT test to get into Airborne and lost his slot to go to 173rd. I feel sorry for whoever has to deal with that stupid motherfucker now.

PookBear
Nov 1, 2008

If you have been in the military for less than six months your command should be able to fire you. Just bounce you out.

DrCuntmuffins
Nov 10, 2011

by Y Kant Ozma Post

Reverand maynard posted:

If you have been in the military for less than six months your command should be able to fire you. Just bounce you out.

agreed. there are too many shitbags in the armed services that never should have made it past basic

gleep gloop
Aug 16, 2005

GROSS SHIT

Reverand maynard posted:

If you have been in the military for less than six months your command should be able to fire you. Just bounce you out.

Isn't a discharge while you're still IET (in training) characterized differently, or at least handled differently? I mean besides you being trapped at Fort Sill or wherever for years. I know you can only get a failure to adapt discharge when you have less than X months of service. Isn't that true with conscientiousness objector and something else?

Gerry:
Gerry I feel bad about making fun of sometimes. He meant well, he really did. Part of him was everything the Army could ever ask for. He honestly believes in everything this country and his military stood for. He believed all the propaganda, he believed everyone who out-ranked him spoke with the word of god. His greatest goal in life was to make Sergeant Major. He never answered back. You gave him an order, and god drat it he did it, no questions asked. If you told him to find you the Arc of the Covenant and not come back until he has it, he'd either die looking for it or come back with it. This was also Gerry's greatest failing.

Gerry had no loving social skills what so ever. When I say awkward, the kid was loving awkward. His eyes were way too close together, his glasses way too thick, he was too hairy, too fat, too smelly, his voice was too high, and he stuttered too bad to be taken seriously. Except for the nearly touching eyes the kid looked like a loving squirrel. He was a complete and total push-over, the only way he would ever stand up for himself is if you tried to compromise the army values with him.


Gerry showed up to our unit at Bragg in the two week window that myself and like 20 other brand new idiot privates all did. I got roomed with him in reception so I got to know him a bit. He was so drat weird and creepy I promised I would never hang out with him ever. Then he went and bought a car. This I give him credit for, he bought a car the best way an E2 can. He got a brand new base model Corolla. He put a large down payment on it, got a fair interest rate, and that was it. No system, no rims, no trim package, nope. He bought...a car. And that was it. Myself and the two guys I became close friends different have vehicles. So we all became friends with Gerry.

Gerry was a pretty loving bad driver. I think the world around him moved too fast for his mind to process. We eventually worked out that the passenger was basically his navigation system/co-pilot.
"That's a stop sign Gerry."
"Oh gently caress!"

"The light's green Gerry."
"Oh gently caress!"

"We want this right Gerry, NOT INTO THAT CAR GERRY!"
"Oh ok- OH gently caress!"

One day we realized that Gerry was a loving computer. He would do exactly what you told him to do, regardless of what he observed. We started loving with him by waiting for him to be the first car at a red light. We would make sure the coast was clear and yell "Green light Gerry! GO!" and with a high pitched "OH gently caress!" he'd go. He fell for this every single time.

One day the absolute most perfect situation possible happened. On post Gerry was the first car stopped at a red light. I was in the passenger seat, and an MP was the car behind him. I made sure no cars were coming and told him to go. He loving did it. The cop behind us immediately hit the lights and pulled Gerry over. I was laughing harder than I ever have before, I couldn't believe this idiot really did it. The cop walks up to the window:
:cop: Son, I know you saw that drat light.
:downs: Well uh I uh...I...I did...officer.
:cop: So why in the hell did you go through it?
:downs: Well er uhh...officer...er uhh I uhh...he said it was green.
:cop: Well son? That true.
:haw: Well...officer yes. I yelled that the light was green.
:cop:...Well son, the driver is in charge of the vehicle. Give me your license and insurance card.

Gerry got a ticket for it that day, and spent that saturday morning in class As at the post driver safety course. He told me I had to pay the ticket back. I never did.

buttplug
Aug 28, 2004
There was this guy at my command not too long ago that had a thing for hookers.

Not big deal, right? Well, dipshit decides to tell the command he's going on leave. He puts his chit in, it gets approved, and off he goes.

A couple days later while he's on leave, his wife calls up asking for his phone number at his TDY location because she hadn't heard from him in a couple days. The person on the other end of the phone goes "he's not TDY, he's on leave in the Philippines".

Moron thought it was a good idea to tell his wife he was going TDY and tell the command he was going on leave so he could go down to the PI to bang out hookers. Apparently he had done this several times before it caught up with him...

buttplug fucked around with this message at 12:20 on Dec 2, 2012

Snowdens Secret
Dec 29, 2008
Someone got you a obnoxiously racist av.
We had a dude take out a something like $4K personal loan from NFCU for a new computer and then blow it all on a single stripper over the course of a weekend

I imagine everyone in the military has a story fundamentally like this, though

Snowdens Secret
Dec 29, 2008
Someone got you a obnoxiously racist av.
Had a dude who luckily had just transferred off of our boat get caught for statutory rape etc. Apparently he was inviting 15 year old boys over to his house and getting them drunk, then fellating them. When his house got searched they found 60+ firearms, about half of which were supposedly illegal in the state of CT. When the news ran the story they made a point of showing his truck in front of his house with the big Confederate flag filling the back window.

We had a delayed deployment for over a week (too broke to go to sea, too dumb to fake it) and the day we pulled out, the top half of the local paper front page was Mr Dixie Blowjob up there, who as I said had luckily transferred, so even though it said he was Navy it didn't list our command. However, the bottom half of the front page was one of our guys. Some dumb TM striker had taken advantage of the delay to go see his (very underage) girlfriend. Apparently her mom caught them in the bed so he panicked, punched the mom in the face (classy) and jumped out the window. Somehow in his confused escape he also rammed a cop car, giving the paper a great picture. His biggest mistake was that he thought if he could just get back to base, he'd be safe, because federal property and all. So he was sitting in his barracks for all of maybe 10 minutes before the MPs swung by to haul him off to the hoosegow.

Red87
Jun 3, 2008

The UNE will prevail.

GD_American posted:

He was warned (67th and 69th had Army-wide bad reputations)

I'm in 69th Signal BN in Graf. Its a pretty weird unit, but nothing bad about it. Just really small, and civilians outnumber us in the unit like 5 to 1.

GD_American
Jul 21, 2004

LISTEN TO WHAT I HAVE TO SAY AS IT'S INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT!

Red87 posted:

I'm in 69th Signal BN in Graf. Its a pretty weird unit, but nothing bad about it. Just really small, and civilians outnumber us in the unit like 5 to 1.

:doh: meant 63rd.


I actually tried to get into 69th when I was set to leave Germany, but with 1ID and 121 Sig's drawdown I was the millionth guy to try.

Nillerz
Jun 24, 2008

Nillerz posted:

Why don't I eat veggies? I don't look at them as *food*, in the classical sense.
AM I POSTING ABOUT HOW WOMEN ARE STUPID, WEAK AND WORTHLESS? REMIND ME THAT I AM AN INFANTILE MANCHILD WHO REFUSES TO EAT VEGETABLES
My team leader leaves tomorrow.

I hope the plane crashes.

This man never should have made it past MEPS.

gleep gloop
Aug 16, 2005

GROSS SHIT

Nillerz posted:

My team leader leaves tomorrow.

I hope the plane crashes.

This man never should have made it past MEPS.

You're the dude in Kuwait right? Hey if you're there when the PA guard retards show up look for a tall, skinny, awkward female E7 named Lars. Tell her Leanne says hi and he has eyes everywhere. Then run away.

Yes I know you probably won't see her or remember, or care, but it's a hilarious mental image for me, humor me.

GD_American
Jul 21, 2004

LISTEN TO WHAT I HAVE TO SAY AS IT'S INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT!
How about you fuckers try to top some 3-star, national security-endangering stupidity?

quote:

In October of 1979, construction for an F‑117 Nighthawk support facility at Tonopah began inside Area 52. Tonopah was so far removed from the already far removed and restricted sites at Area 51 and the Nevada Test Site that no one outside a need-to-know had ever even heard of it. The facility at Area 51 served as a model for the facility being built at Area 52. Similarly styled runways and taxiways were built, as well as a maintenance hangar, using crews already cleared for work on Nevada Test Site contracts. Sixteen mobile homes were carted in, and several permanent support buildings were constructed. Sandia didn't want to draw attention to the project, so the Air Force officers assigned to the base were ordered to grow their hair long and to grow beards. Sporting a hippie look, as opposed to a military look, was less likely to draw unwanted attention to a highly classified project cropping up in the outer reaches of the Nevada Test Site. That way, the men could do necessary business in the town of Tonopah.

The two facilities, Area 51 and Area 52, worked in tandem to get the F‑117 battle-ready. When a mock attack at the guard gate at Area 51 occurred, in 1982, test flights of the F‑117 - which only ever happened at night - were already in full swing. For some weeks, a debate raged as to how an act of idiocy by a small group of Wackenhut Security guards nearly outed a billion-dollar aircraft as well as two top secret military test facilities that had remained secret for thirty years. An estimated ten thousand personnel had managed to keep the F‑117 program in the dark. There was a collective mopping of the brow and succinct orders to move on, and then, two years later, the program was nearly outed again when an Air Force general broke protocol and decided to take a ride in one of Area 51's prized MiG fighter jets.

The death of Lieutenant General Robert M. Bond on April 26, 1984, in Area 25 of the Nevada Test Site was an avoidable tragedy. With 267 combat missions under his belt, 44 in Korea and 213 in Vietnam, Robert M. Bond was a highly decorated Air Force pilot revered by many. At the time of his accident, he was vice commander of Air Force Systems Command at Andrews Air Force Base, in Maryland, which made him a VIP when it came to the F‑117 program going on at Area 51. In March of 1984, General Bond arrived at the secret facility to see how things were progressing. The general's visit should have been no different than those made by the scores of generals whose footsteps Bond was following in, visits that began back in 1955 with men like General James "Jimmy" Doolittle and General Curtis LeMay. The dignitaries were always treated in high style; they would eat, drink, and bear witness to top secret history being made. Following in this tradition, General Bond's first visit went without incident.

But in addition to being impressed by the F‑117 Nighthawk, General Bond was equally fascinated by the MiG program, which was still going on at Area 51. In the fifteen years since the CIA had gotten its hands on Munir Redfa's MiG‑21, the Agency and the Air Force had acquired a fleet of Soviet-made aircraft including an MiG‑15, an MiG‑17, and, most recently, the supersonic MiG‑23. Barnes says, "We called it the Flogger. It was a very fast plane, almost Mach 3. But it was squirrelly. Hard to fly. It could kill you if you weren't well trained."

On a visit to Area 51 the following month, General Bond requested to fly the MiG‑23. "There was some debate about whether the general should be allowed to fly," Barnes explains. "Every hour in a Soviet airplane was precious. We did not have spare parts. We could not afford unnecessary wear and tear. Usually a pilot would train for at least two weeks before flying a MiG. Instead, General Bond got a briefing while sitting inside the plane with an instructor pilot saying, ‘Do this, do that.'" In other words, instead of undergoing two weeks of training, General Bond pulled rank. Just a few hours later, General Bond was seated in the cockpit of the MiG, flying high over Groom Lake. All appeared to be going well, but just as he crossed over into the Nevada Test Site, Bond radioed the tower on an emergency channel. "I'm out of control," General Bond said in distress. The MiG was going approximately Mach 2.5. "I've got to get out, I'm out of control" were the general's last words. The MiG had gone into a spin and was on its way down. Bond ejected from the airplane but was apparently killed when his helmet strap broke his neck. The general and the airplane crashed into Area 25 at Jackass Flats, where the land was still highly contaminated from the secret NERVA [nuclear rocket] tests that had gone on there.



How a general's fatal joyride in a secret enemy jet almost revealed Area 51eneral Bond's death opened the possible exposure of five secret programs and facilities, including the MiG program, the F‑117 program, Area 51, Area 52, and the nuclear reactor explosions at Jackass Flats. Unlike the deaths of CIA pilots flying out of Area 51, which could be concealed as generic training accidents, the death of a general required detailed explanation. If the press asked too many questions, it could trigger a federal investigation. One program had to come out of the dark to keep the others hidden. The Pentagon made the decision to out the MiG. Quietly, Fred Hoffman, a military writer with the Associated Press, was "leaked" information that Bond had in fact died at the controls of a Soviet MiG-23. The emphasis was put on how the Pentagon was able to obtain Soviet- bloc aircraft and weaponry from allies in Eastern Europe, the Middle East, and Asia. "The government has always been reluctant to discuss such acquisitions for fear of embarrassing the friendly donors, but the spotlight was turned anew on the subject after a three-star Air Force general was killed April 26 in a Nevada plane crash that was quickly cloaked in secrecy," Hoffman wrote, adding "sources who spoke on condition they remain anonymous have indicated the MiG‑23, the most advanced Soviet warplane ever to fall permanently into U.S. hands, was supplied to this country by Egypt."

With this partial cover, the secrets of Area 51, Area 52, Area 25, and the F‑117 were safe. It would be another four years before the public had any idea the F‑117 Nighthawk existed. In November of 1988, a grainy image of the arrowhead-shaped, futuristic-looking craft was released to an awestruck public despite the fact that variations of the F-117 had been flying at Area 51 and Area 52 for eleven years.

Editor's note: The site of the MiG-23 crash was memorialized with a small black granite marker, flush with the surrounding desert and deep within U.S. government property. Its inscription reads: "BOBBY BOND APRIL 26, 1984. HE WAS A MAN OF GREAT STRENGTH A WARM AND FAITHFUL FRIEND, WHO GAVE HIS LIFE FOR THE COUNTRY HE LOVED"

http://jalopnik.com/5807385/how-a-generals-fatal-joyride-in-a-secret-enemy-jet-almost-revealed-area-51

gleep gloop
Aug 16, 2005

GROSS SHIT

GD_American posted:

How about you fuckers try to top some 3-star, national security-endangering stupidity?


http://jalopnik.com/5807385/how-a-generals-fatal-joyride-in-a-secret-enemy-jet-almost-revealed-area-51

You're loving kidding me. Do we know what the chain of command was like for these programs? Were they mostly military run or CIA/NSA/whatever? I can't believe a general was able to bully his way into a MiG like that.

GD_American
Jul 21, 2004

LISTEN TO WHAT I HAVE TO SAY AS IT'S INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT!
iyaayas is our unofficial USAF historian I'd love to hear his take on it

Godholio
Aug 28, 2002

Does a bear split in the woods near Zheleznogorsk?

HATE CURES TRANNYS posted:

You're loving kidding me. Do we know what the chain of command was like for these programs? Were they mostly military run or CIA/NSA/whatever? I can't believe a general was able to bully his way into a MiG like that.

Most people aren't going to say no to a 3-star when it doesn't involve blatant violations of law that they can blow a whistle at. What are they going to do when he ends their career? Instead of a cushy contractor job with Lockheed/Boeing in the same field, they're working in the MPF and stuck there until HYT/retirement, with no recourse. Blow the whistle and find yourself in deep poo poo for outing the program. Whistleblower protection doesn't apply to that.

Plus if any pilot is going to be able to hop into a situation like that, it's going to be one with a rap sheet like his.

DrCuntmuffins
Nov 10, 2011

by Y Kant Ozma Post
nothin wrong with workin at the 'mpf

whoops wrong thread, here I leave you with this:

EBB
Feb 15, 2005

That man is a genius. Not that you still wouldn't get your poo poo tore up for doing it.

GD_American
Jul 21, 2004

LISTEN TO WHAT I HAVE TO SAY AS IT'S INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT!

DrCuntmuffins posted:

nothin wrong with workin at the 'mpf

whoops wrong thread, here I leave you with this:



Is that...senior NCO rank tabs? Is he ROTC or student 1st sergeant or something?

EBB
Feb 15, 2005

Probably, he has funny looking ribbons.

hannibal
Jul 27, 2001

[img-planes]

HATE CURES TRANNYS posted:

You're loving kidding me. Do we know what the chain of command was like for these programs? Were they mostly military run or CIA/NSA/whatever? I can't believe a general was able to bully his way into a MiG like that.

The old Air Force Systems Command (now part of Air Force Materiel Command, AFMC) was in charge of Air Force development programs like the F-117 (like AFMC is now for the F-22). So this 3-star was in the chain of command of all those programs for the Air Force. No one there really could tell him no, especially in the 80's.

At least it was a single seater so he just killed himself.

hannibal
Jul 27, 2001

[img-planes]

GD_American posted:

Is that...senior NCO rank tabs? Is he ROTC or student 1st sergeant or something?

Chief Master Sergeant (as a First Sergeant) rank pins
Looks like a Missile Badge on his left pocket unless it's some rotc/cap thing
service dress nametag on his shirt? (the silver one only goes on the jacket, the one for the shirt is skinnier and blue)

So my guess is CAP.

Godholio
Aug 28, 2002

Does a bear split in the woods near Zheleznogorsk?
That's not an actual pocket rocket, I can't tell what the design is but it's different. And the hat pin isn't JROTC, nor are the rank pins, so voting CAP.

Edit: At the Dhafra BX CMSgt w/diamond were the only stripes on the rack that had more than one set at any given time.

DrCuntmuffins
Nov 10, 2011

by Y Kant Ozma Post
civil air patrol - aka high schoolers with ribbons for dumb poo poo and make-believe military


which reminds me of this dude from my tech school class

I can't remember his name, so, let's call him Johnny.
Johnny was a fat gently caress, a standard Air Force rear end in a top hat who had a sense of entitlement about everything. To make it even better, this guy was in the Civil Air Patrol before he enlisted, meaning he got E-3 on enlistment, rather than when graduating basic training. Let me make it clear - this guy thought he was HOT poo poo in tech school.

My first encounter with this woolly mammoth was on a crisp fall day in Mississippi. We were marching to the school house (the first time I was going there), and I was put as a road guard for the marching flight, along with A1C Johnny. He was relaying me rules and regulations for stopping the inexistent traffic that moves along at a steady pace of 25mp/h on backroads, releasing spittle as he talked, and showing off an aire of confidence and valour for his numerous ribbons (he had about 15 ribbons on his uniform this fateful morning).

After a brisk 15 minute walk to the school house, myself, along with everyone else in my career field were told to go back to our squadron dorms, we weren't getting in the class today. A1C Johnny decided that he wanted to be in class, and approached the TSgt that was doling out the bad news. He made sure to state he was a member of the Civil Air Patrol and had 23(or something) ribbons and achievements, and this NCO should listen up and get him through school - NOW.

I watched as the TSgt went from incredulous, to mad, to angry, to drill sergeant. This man reamed A1C Dumbfuck for a good 15 minutes, while the rest of us just watched from around the corner of the building.

A1C Dumbfuck came back with all of his ribbons taken off and generally being a sukling fucktard, and he told us he wasn't allowed to wear the ribbons "THAT I EARNED".

This man proceeded to get kicked out of the military after failing two classes in a row, and had an Article 15 for wearing his CAP ribbons to the schoolhouse whenever he got a new teacher. From what I heard, this manchild told every new instructor he had about his ribbons, and why he deserved to wear them.

Godholio
Aug 28, 2002

Does a bear split in the woods near Zheleznogorsk?

DrCuntmuffins posted:

civil air patrol - aka high schoolers with ribbons for dumb poo poo and make-believe military

That's jrotc. CAP actually does some cool poo poo (but does cross into the jrotc side of things at the same time).

Edit: Yeah very few ribbons actually cross over. Mostly only if they're earned in support of a unit that gets recognized with a ribbon, or some kind of lifesaving event.

DrCuntmuffins
Nov 10, 2011

by Y Kant Ozma Post
well there's junior CAP which does basically nothing

from what i understand the missile badge is actually a rocketry badge and its earned by playing with model rockets

Godholio
Aug 28, 2002

Does a bear split in the woods near Zheleznogorsk?
Frankly if you can successfully launch one, get the chute/streamer to open, AND actually recover the loving thing without dodging traffic/angry landowners, you deserve a ribbon.

iyaayas01
Feb 19, 2010

Perry'd

GD_American posted:

iyaayas is our unofficial USAF historian I'd love to hear his take on it

What you posted is accurate generally, but it gets a lot of the details wrong; given that it is from Annie Jacobson's book I am not surprised that it got most of the details wrong (there is so much wrong with her book I don't even know where to begin.) If you are interested in the Red Eagles (the USAF/USN/USMC pilots who flew MiGs as aggressors), Red Eagles: America's Secret MiGs by Steve Davies is really worth a read. It also goes into some of the AFSC MiG exploitation programs as well, and it also touches on Bond's mishap, and Davies is pretty much the guy when it comes to the history of the program...he got serious access and interviews from almost all the major players.

As for what is wrong in the bit you posted, for starters the MiG program wasn't at "Area 51" (Groom Lake.) The MiGs did operate out of there occasionally and used it as a divert field, but the primary base for them was at Tonopah. The USAF actually did a bit of a bait and switch where they had planned from the start to base the MiGs and F-117s simultaneously at Tonopah; they crafted a cover story for the MiGs at Tonopah, then as the MiGs gradually became more grey world instead of pure black (more and more pilots had been exposed to the point where the MiGs were basically an open secret among tactical pilots in the military by the mid to late '80s, and Aviation Week and Space Technology did a story on the MiGs in the '80s as well, before Bond's crash) the MiG cover story/the MiGs themselves became the cover story for the F-117s at Tonopah (one example of this is that the majority of the F-117 facility build-up at Tonopah was funded by F-117 money, but it was done under the aegis of the Red Eagles program). So it was basically a cover story within a cover story.

Others have touched on the chain, but both the Red Eagles and F-117 were straight USAF; it wasn't like the U-2 where the CIA was involved at the start. The F-117 started off with AFSC (R&D command) and then TAC (tactical combat command) got involved as it approached IOC. The Red Eagles were a TAC initiative, where the MiGs were flown as aggressors; this was in contrast to the other MiG programs, which were run by AFSC (usually in conjunction with DIA) and were exploitation directed (they flew the aircraft to discover weaknesses, how it performed technically against U.S. radar/electronics, etc.) The Red Eagles had the bulk of the MiGs, as they were doing more flying (multiple sorties every day to support Red Flag and Weapons School sorties, as opposed to the more occasional AFSC exploitation sorties.) Most of the AFSC sorties took place out of Edwards, and the programs were more or less separate, but there was cross-flow between the two, both with information/expertise/data (especially for the maintainers) and sometimes aircraft/pilots.

As for General Bond's incident, he kind of pulled rank, but it isn't really as bad as it sounds. IIRC this wasn't that unheard of, as another couple of other senior officers did it...the thought process was that they needed to get the experience of the aircraft to be able to effectively advocate for it/fully appreciate the need for it (especially when it came to funding)/etc. The typical profile for this kind of flight was what the Red Eagles called an "orientation" flight...it was what the Red Eagles would fly on their first couple of sorties flying a type of MiG: an experienced check pilot would go up in a chase T-38 while the student pilot (or senior officer) would put the MiG through some basic maneuver. Given General Bond's position as AFSC Vice, as I alluded to above he would've been a) read in on the Red Eagles, and b) actually had something to do with the MiG programs in general. Additionally, the way Jacobson writes it makes it sound like he was out there to see the F-117 and just happened to see the MiGs and was like "ooh, shiny MiGs, I want to fly one." That wasn't it at all; his visit was primarily intended to touch base with the Red Eagles, so the plan always was for him to get some flying time with the MiGs.

My understanding is that his mishap took place on the second of two orientation flights (if I had my copy of Red Eagles with me I could confirm this), which called for a high speed run. The only real fault here is that Bond got a little carried away with the speed and exceeded the speed he was supposed to be at and departed controlled flight...if I had my copy of Red Eagles I could tell you the specifics but there was some kind of a friction lock on the throttle of the MiG-23 where once you pushed past a certain speed the lock engaged so you couldn't quickly pull back on the throttle, because the rapid deceleration from those high speeds could could cause the engine to break loose from its mounts (which would be bad, obviously). So once you were past a certain speed you were kind of along for the ride for a certain period of time because you had to slowly decelerate. IIRC Bond got going too fast and got in over his head/task saturated to the point where he forgot about/didn't realize the friction lock was engaged and wasn't able to slow down, then departed controlled flight and was forced to eject while still supersonic. As I kind of alluded to above it's pretty unfair to make it sound like the USAF had to out the MiG's because of this crash because by the time Bond crashed the Red Eagles were an open secret anyway, and making it sound like they did so to keep the F-117 secret is a bit of a superfluous statement because by that point the Red Eagles were explicitly intended as part of the F-117s cover story. I mean, by this point the Soviets knew we were flying MiGs at Tonopah...what they didn't know (and what wasn't revealed because of Bond's crash) was what we were doing with those MiGs, which was the Red Eagle aggressor program. That particular detail (which was the most significant piece of the puzzle) would remain more or less secret until the program was declassified in '06.

Bottom line is that while Bond screwed up, making it sound like he was some "yeehaw kick the tires light the fires" cowboy that singlehandedly put 5 different top secret programs at risk is more than a bit of an exaggeration...which isn't really surprising coming from Jacobson, since her entire book is basically one long half-truth strung together with gossip and innuendo (can you tell that I really really don't like her book?) I mean, for gently caress's sake, the big "reveal" at the end of her book is that the aliens at Roswell were Soviet midgets genetically engineered to look like aliens by former Nazi scientists for Stalin that Stalin intentionally crash-landed in a flying saucer of Soviet design in an attempt to spook the U.S. and that this would somehow impact the Cold War because...? Note: I am not exaggerating or making up any of that last bit, that is all legitimately in her book...just one of the many reasons I think her book is garbage.

Caveat: I'm in the middle of a PCS so I don't have access to Red Eagles or any of my other books, so I'm going off of memory here, but I'm pretty sure that all of that is more or less correct.

e: Broke up one of the wall of text paragraphs, and man, the more I read Jacobson's article the more annoyed I get. I take back what I said at the top about her getting it generally right...other than the fact that Bobby Bond was a three star general who crashed a MiG-23 somewhere in Nevada, pretty much none of what she wrote is correct. Just to footstomp one little detail that I kind of only alluded to above, "Area 52" (Tonopah) wasn't like this mirror image of Area 51 that was constructed specifically to house the F-117 like Jacobson says. The Red Eagles were there for a couple of years before the F-117 program was even a thing (back when it was still Have Blue) and then the Red Eagles were established as the F-117 program was getting off the ground; like I said above the Red Eagles were part of the cover for the F-117 program.

Godholio posted:

Frankly if you can successfully launch one, get the chute/streamer to open, AND actually recover the loving thing without dodging traffic/angry landowners, you deserve a ribbon.

:lol:

This is kind of the truth.

iyaayas01 fucked around with this message at 09:05 on Dec 4, 2012

Martello
Apr 29, 2012

by XyloJW

Snowdens Secret posted:

We had a dude take out a something like $4K personal loan from NFCU for a new computer and then blow it all on a single stripper over the course of a weekend

I imagine everyone in the military has a story fundamentally like this, though

Definitely. Mine is about a fellow Infantry 2LT at IOBC with me in 2007-08. This kid was your perfect pencil-necked geek, about 5'6" and 135 lb if he was lucky. His name, which I'll refrain from revealing, basically was "littledick" so we'll call him Littledick. He would fall out of ruck marches within 100 meters of stepping off, no poo poo. He wore thick glasses, had an awful loving high-n-tight, and talked in a nasally, nerdy voice. But he hated video games and called me a "nerd" because I was playing Call of Duty 4 at the time. Anyway, so Littledick takes a trip to New Orleans for one of our 4-day weekends, and goes to some high-class strip club in the French Quarter. He gets in a VIP room with some supposedly gorgeous stripper (other guys with good taste who were there confirmed) and spent literally his entire paycheck for that two-week period on her. I think at that point in our time in service it was about 1600-1800 bucks. As if all that wasn't bad enough, he was completely unrepentant about it and bragged about all the complimentary things she said to him. This is how our conversation went.

:mil101: Littledick, how in the gently caress did you spend 1800 bones on a motherfucking stripper?
:v:: Dude, she was hot as hell!
:mil101: Who gives a gently caress, she's a stripper! She didn't even suck your dick or anything!
:v: I don't care, this woman was gorgeous. She liked me, too.
:mil101: No, no she didn't Littledick, they say that poo poo so stupid fucks like you will spend entire O-1 paychecks on them how are you so dumb.
:v: Yes she did! She told me that I was handsome and that she wanted to run away with me and get married and that my last name was definitely not accurate heh heh.
:mil101: Littledick oh my god you are so loving stupid...
:v: *stupid loving grin*

iyaayas01 posted:

I mean, for gently caress's sake, the big "reveal" at the end of her book is that the aliens at Roswell were Soviet midgets genetically engineered to look like aliens by former Nazi scientists for Stalin that Stalin intentionally crash-landed in a flying saucer of Soviet design in an attempt to spook the U.S. and that this would somehow impact the Cold War because...? Note: I am not exaggerating or making up any of that last bit, that is all legitimately in her book...just one of the many reasons I think her book is garbage.

:staredog:

Booblord Zagats
Oct 30, 2011


Pork Pro

Godholio posted:

That's jrotc. CAP actually does some cool poo poo (but does cross into the jrotc side of things at the same time).

Edit: Yeah very few ribbons actually cross over. Mostly only if they're earned in support of a unit that gets recognized with a ribbon, or some kind of lifesaving event.

My older brother got a 30K scholarship from CAP for hitting Cadet Colonel and running a half dozen search and rescue operations from the communications trailers. I got a blow job in the back of the JROTC room once and smoked about a bunch of weed at their air rifle range during highschool.

Really thats also the best summation of how different we really are

overdesigned
Apr 10, 2003

We are compassion...
Lipstick Apathy
'W' wasn't so much an idiot as he was a lovely person. Well okay he was kind of an idiot, too.

At nav school he was immediately disliked by the rest of our class and he didn't take it well. On several occasions the usual Marine Corps style "yo you suck and are loving terrible" poo poo talking/fuckery escalated to physical violence. He actually grabbed one of the smaller guys in the class and held his drafting dividers up against his throat and threatened to kill him at one point--which would have been a little scary if they weren't, like, a little metal stick with a half-inch pin on the end of them. The dude he was threatening didn't even try to escape, just laughed.

Then he got implicated stealing the cash out of the honor-system soda mess.

Somewhere along the line we found out he'd put his clothes into the washing machine and forget about them overnight and when they were all musty/mildewy/loving stank, he'd just throw them in a dryer with an extra dryer sheet and call it good enough.

Then he got caught cheating on our homeworks; he would 'stay late' and fish mine out of the stack in the back of the room and copy all my answers down (but he'd change them all by one degree). I sure enjoyed getting Spanish-Inqusititioned by the CWO5 director of the school over that debacle.

Somehow despite all this poo poo he graduates and gets to Cherry Point, where he immediately buys a truck that's way too nice for a Lance Corporal to own. We found out that he had gotten his parents to co-sign on it. How did we find out? W stopped making his payments! After a few months of ths and ignoring phone calls from his parents, they get sick and call the squadron CO. Mandatory financial counseling ensues and we find that he'd been buying every new release DVD that the PX stocked as well as hundreds a week on a lovely stripper from one of the places outside the front gate.

Who he then invited to the Marine Corps Ball.

Then, after like a year and a half of training and considerable government expense, he withdrew his volunteer-to-fly letter and got thrown to the winds of HQMC for a new MOS. He's a combat engineer now. A sergeant, last I checked. Still wears his nav wings on his uniform, too. My only solace is that he's rapidly approaching the 10 year up-or-out date for E-5's.

If he somehow got promoted to SSgt I will take it as concrete evidence that there is in fact no God.

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Pudgygiant
Apr 8, 2004

Garnet and black? More like gold and blue or whatever the fuck colors these are
I was the idiot. Absolute last day in Iraq, the only loving responsibility was to show up for accountability formations twice a day, and I missed the morning one because I was watching college football in the DFAC. Then that afternoon, while I was pulling "CQ" by sitting in a metal folding chair at the gate to the transient tents, I missed the last goddamn accountability formation of our deployment because I was taking a poo poo. My punishment for that was "Oh, you don't know when movement is? Have fun standing outside with your bags packed until we leave". That was a fun day.

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