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Gap In The Tooth
Aug 16, 2004
Two points to contemplate:

Firstly, one could write a legitimate, 100% original content VCE practice test for the CCNA or MCITP. But how much time would a person need to invest into this? And then how would they go about getting compensated for it? Unless it is a labour of love, they would need to sell it. How much would you pay for it? How many people are going to pay for it, knowing they could go to certain sites and download actual exam questions for free?**

Secondly, what guarantee is there that these 'practice tests which aren't dumps' even align with what they are saying in the exam? Going back a few pages, there was the example where a GRE tunnel was an answer to the ipv4-6 translation question. In the real world, this is true, however at CCNA level you aren't expected to know that GRE even exists. This can be hella confusing to the guy who has years of experience in networking but doesn't have the cert and needs to get it.

People who need the piece of paper just to get past HR aren't going to be after practice tests that prove they know their poo poo, they are going to want to sit real dumps so they know the marketing bullshit de jour or the exact level or knowledge they are supposed to demonstrate, because they can't skip CCNA and straight do CCNP. These people miss out on great opportunities because enterprise HR or automated software are scanning for acronyms.

The other side of the coin is people complain in the IT threads about FNGs and unsuitable interviewees because they do the dumps and get the paper and then come interview time can't explain the difference between default-information originate and redistribute static.


This whole IT cert business has its flaws so let's accept it and move on.



** Any goons who are studying networking at A+, N+ or CCNA level want me to go ahead and make some practice tests? Maybe even do a full-on training thing through SA Mart?

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Gap In The Tooth
Aug 16, 2004

Ganon posted:

This article from years ago says MS uses forensics and can tell if you studied from dumps


They say they can ban you for life with no proof other than this, but I've never heard of it happening. Tons of people use them and you'd think someone would post about it happening to them on techexams or something if it did.


A testing center at an IT academy I was affiliated with got a call from MS one day saying that their candidates were finishing tests too fast and their MS IT Academy status was in trouble of being revoked. The testing center administrator pulled the photocopies of result sheets from the previous six months and figured out that students were taking an expected amount of time (eg over an hour) to finish a 2-3 hour exam. The members of the public, however, were averaging something stupid like 20 minutes. She forwarded this to Microsoft and they dropped the whole thing.

Gap In The Tooth
Aug 16, 2004

Jedi425 posted:

Passed my CCNP Firewall today.

Man, Cisco loves their virtual firewall. And their thrice-damned GUI. I thought I was quit of that thing after CCNA Security.

Any books you would recommend for CCNA/P Security?

Gap In The Tooth
Aug 16, 2004
Yes on one level Citrix is like Remote Desktop.

The easiest layman explanation is to take what you know about RDP, and imagine Citrix as possibly being a wholesale replacement, or separate exe's of RDP for each application you want to launch, i.e. distributed applications.

It's certainly more complex than that once you have to implement/support it. And like all things printers take a massive poo poo on it.

Gap In The Tooth
Aug 16, 2004

Doug posted:

What's the point in studying an old test when in 3 years I'll be at minimum taking the new test possibly with even more material if it gets updated again.

Getting the CCNA is still valid, better to do it now than when it is harder. Even more so if you don't feel like you can't get poo poo done right now.

Unless you really really want to learn OSPFv3.

Gap In The Tooth
Aug 16, 2004

theperminator posted:

So I finally passed my 647 exam the other day, with a passing grade of 780.

It's now showing up in the MCP portal, someone here said they'd gotten the MCITP: Enterprise admin too and that it was automatically upgraded to the MCSA: 2008 certification

But when I look at the certification planner it's showing that I also have to pass the 646 exam to get this?

The 646 Exam is the Server Administrator exam. So essentially finishing off MCITP: Server Administrator.

My feeling is that you can't just jump to Enterprise Admin, you need to get certified as an SA first, then it will automatically bump you up once it acknowledges your 647.

Gap In The Tooth
Aug 16, 2004

I would say the CCNA is a basic and fundamental certification for anyone who takes their work in enterprise IT seriously, regardless of specialization.

Gap In The Tooth
Aug 16, 2004
Studying towards my CCNP, my study partner and I finally got around to moving from buggy as hell PacketTracer to GNS3.

My experience so far:

Gap In The Tooth
Aug 16, 2004
You can reasonably aim to sit the CCNA in 240hrs of study using the official Net Academy resources. This is the timeframe in which I used to teach it, four hours a day, for 12 weeks with weekends off. This includes 3 weeks of basic intro stuff which, if you understand the OSI model and TCP/IP, you can skip and move straight into the routing and switching and WAN stuff.

For current IT people maybe working helldesk who have networking basics or people with N+:
Given 2hrs a night and 4hrs on both weekend days, you'll get it done in about three months.

For noobs who are in work:
Go same schedule as above, but aim for four to six months

If you have all day to study then seriously go for six weeks.

In terms of what you should actually do in that time, you should focus on getting GNS3 set up and LAB HARD. Lab time beats theory study hands down.



Also don't bother getting the N+ first if you don't already have it.

Gap In The Tooth
Aug 16, 2004

Erkenntnis posted:

I've got GNS3 with IOS images already, I really wanted to get hands-on experience with the hardware as well - just to ensure that I'm learning everything and not merely cramming it. I've been "official" desktop support and repair at my university for almost five years, but I feel like none of it directly translates into jr network admin or engineer positions, which is what I want to do now that I've graduated.

e: oh, and thanks for the response.

Proest of tips, your 26xxXM models can run CallManager Express for IP phone fun or Voice track studies.

Always a tick in the plus column for using physical gear in a lab.

Gap In The Tooth
Aug 16, 2004

Charles Martel posted:

What does the roadmap look like for myself who's been working on a helpdesk for the past two years, has no certifications as of yet, and is interested in learning more about networking?

Skip N+ and go straight into either CCENT as Tasty Wheat says or if you are brave go for the straight CCNA.

A+ while full of handy knowledge won't give you any career momentum past a helpdesk, which you already have enough experience at.
N+ is again handy, but for the same reasons as the A+, look to skip it and get on a vendor networking track. The entry-level Cisco networking stuff is much better than the early Juniper stuff for people starting out.

Gap In The Tooth
Aug 16, 2004
Dynamics as a dev or as a sysadmin?

Gap In The Tooth
Aug 16, 2004
I worked in a MSP that did tailored Dynamics CRM and Great Plains solutions, and being a sysadmin/infrastructure engineer for these was not complicated, and I did it without Dynamics certs. The real money for these products is definitely in the dev side.

Even more money, once you get on board with a company that pumps these out, is to move to consulting and PMing for them. The downside is, being a coder for one sucks, as it is production line factory coding.

The plus to working in-house for an org with a Dynamics solution is that you can own the thing and get really highly technical. The downside is that it is pidgeon-holey, and you won't make that $120/hr off the bat.

Gap In The Tooth
Aug 16, 2004
I know I say this every so often in this thread but I'm not sorry, I'm going to say it with more conviction each time.

As a former CCNA tutor to adults, including former mechanics, arborists, and even convicts with no IT background, I would say the N+ is useless.

I would only ever consider wasting time with the N+ on high school kids and I'm talking 13 and 14 year olds who are into computers and would be bored doing what I did in Computer classes (which was learn Office and get an ICDL), or maybe as a university elective course for non-IT track courses, in the same way you see business students taking Popular Music 101 for an easy A.

The general advice in this thread is solid re the N+, that is if you are at all competent in using a desktop computer and are pursuing IT as a career, the CCENT/CCNA is where you want to start for networking. Sure, it does introduce you to a lot of networking concepts, but really you get told the same stuff when you start the Cisco track.

If you are apprehensive about how hard CCENT/CCNA will be and want to 'start easier' by taking the N+ first you are wasting your time. It gives you bad habits, the stuff you learn gets covered later in your cert path so you repeat things, and hey, this poo poo is a cycle. I had taken 8 Microsoft exams before the CCNA and never shat bricks so hard as when I clicked END EXAM. And now here I am years later scoffing at how EZ the CCNA is compared to the NP stuff I'm learning at the moment.

Climbs off high horse.

Gap In The Tooth
Aug 16, 2004
You shouldn't be staying at CCENT level long enough for that to become an issue.

Gap In The Tooth
Aug 16, 2004

Tab8715 posted:

I agree with that but my employer is paying for certifications. Granted it's not my field (Production Support) but it's certainly related and wouldn't look bad on my resume.

If they are paying for certs, and you have a choice, get a CCENT. If no choice then go for it.

Gap In The Tooth
Aug 16, 2004
It should say right there on his paper which exam he took.

Gap In The Tooth
Aug 16, 2004

Deal with it. I've worked as an IT trainer for 2 and a half years in two different stints. There are people who are good educators, and there are those just in it for a paycheck.

Gap In The Tooth
Aug 16, 2004
An MCSA is an MCSA. Go for 2008R2. It is mature and stable. MS has a horrible lag between product release and exam maturity/training material continuity.

If you are labbing on 2012 for 6 hours a day and can find all the rough spots and gaps in the 2012 material, then by all means go for a 2012. But I would go 2008R2 then take an upgrade test later.

Gap In The Tooth
Aug 16, 2004
That post about a $3500/wk course got me thinking.

How many people would be willing to pay how much for regular one-on-one time with a former CCNA/MCSA instructor via Skype either as supplementary to their studies or to do a complete distance learning thing?

I have been toying with the idea because I now work from home and have myself and my rack just sitting there doing nothing for vast periods of time.

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Gap In The Tooth
Aug 16, 2004
^ this

QPZIL posted:

Yeah, solid advice here. The best thing is really "ask yourself questions beyond the lab".

For instance, I'm studying now for the CCNP ROUTE exam, and one of the labs mentioned using multipoint frame-relay connections (antiquated though it may be). I realized there were a couple little issues I had with setting up MPFR and point-to-multipoint FR, so I started reading about it. And here it is like 5 hours later and I feel a lot better, not only about frame-relay, but even about the overarching topic I was studying (EIGRP stuff).

That being said though, I know frame-relay is phasing out slowly across the IT world. What's it being replaced with? VPNs? Fiber? Both? Just curious.

You can achieve the same thing (point-to-point or point-to-multipoint) connections using a variety of better methods these days. What you have to acknowledge is that FR comes from a time of dialup, TDM and ISDN fixed circuits. The modern networking environment is fluid and there is now a major gulf between layer 1/2 and everything else. So as you see Fibre to the Home/Premise, or Gigabit Passive Optical Networks, Google Fibre, VDSL2 and other connection options roll out, you will see that endpoints are more layer 3+ focused than layer 1/2 focused in the sense that the carrier medium doesn't matter as much anymore. Endpoints no longer require termination of a circuit like in the old days, and are more akin to the ethernet-style star model.

MPLS is essentially the same thing but is more interested in labeling stuff 'in flight' as it travels over IP networks as opposed to tagging layer 2 frames coming out of physical interfaces, so it's more like VLAN tagging that FR. No doubt someone can give a more detailed explanation as I've only worked with it in the lab. VRFs work to lay out routing paths and does magic with VPNs too. Some of this stuff used to be in the CCNP curriculum back before it became ROUTE.

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