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Happy Thread
Jul 9, 2005


Plaster Town Cop

Kazinsal posted:

Just started watching this show for the first time. It's excellent so far, and I'm only on the second episode. How have I missed this for so long?

I'm really happy to see a new watcher. Please keep us updated, or post predictions

Don't worry too much about getting spoiled ITT; with this show, it's all about the journey, not the twists. Besides that, most of the surprises can't be summed up in words easily. This is not a show that relies on cheap reveals.

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codo27
Apr 21, 2008



2 episodes left to S4. Seems to be a pattern of S1&3 being really good and the ones directly following them being kind of letdowns, though 4 seems to be setting up to conclude nicely. I really like the show, a lot of charming characters (and a lot of ones I hate), sometimes too many people in play at times. Surprised people hold it up alongside (or above) the Sopranos though.

Barksdales were great villains, Marlo seemed to have the makings of being interesting but thus far his whole crew is just bland or annoying mostly.

The thing that really strikes me, I really like movies and music and such that have to do with american black culture. But this show has driven home in a way I've scarcely experienced just how ruthless and hopeless it really is. I keep thinkin back to the kid taking the stray bullet from that shootout. And now with the school angle and the program Colvin has going, seeing their home lives, even with the resistance they face from the kids it makes me wish I could do something myself to help in real life. Then you got Namond's mom. gently caress that bitch.

Rollie Fingers
Jul 28, 2002


Happy Thread posted:

I'm really happy to see a new watcher. Please keep us updated, or post predictions

Don't worry too much about getting spoiled ITT; with this show, it's all about the journey, not the twists. Besides that, most of the surprises can't be summed up in words easily. This is not a show that relies on cheap reveals.

FWIW, I first watched The Wire last year so I'm technically new to its universe as well. I just finished watching it again and surprisingly my impressions are pretty much the same as the first time around:

I loved seasons 1 - 3. Seasons 1 and 2 especially just hit me so hard. Season 4 has too much bloat (everything to do with Prez, Bubbles and Marlo's annoying terminators), and season 5... well they definitely ended the show at the right time. Just watch McNulty's FBI profile scene and leave the rest.

Duzzy Funlop
Jan 13, 2010


We real cool. We
Left school. We

Lurk late. We
Strike straight. We

Sing sin. We
Thin gin. We

Jazz June. We
Die soon.


Kazinsal posted:

Just started watching this show for the first time. It's excellent so far, and I'm only on the second episode. How have I missed this for so long?

Gooble, gobble etc.

Enjoy your ride!

Orange Devil
Sep 30, 2010

CUNT


codo27 posted:

2 episodes left to S4. Seems to be a pattern of S1&3 being really good and the ones directly following them being kind of letdowns, though 4 seems to be setting up to conclude nicely.

Actually you'll find that season 4 and 2 are the best seasons of the show, objectively and in that order.

christmas boots
Oct 15, 2012

To these sing-alongs of siren songs
To oohs to ahhs to big applause
With all of my anger I scream and shout
America, I love you but you're freaking me out


Biscuit Hider

Season 2 is such an underdog season but itís such an important one in the grand scheme of things

Syrian Lannister
Aug 25, 2007

Oh, did I kill him too?
I've been a very busy little man.




Sugartime Jones

It took me, probably three or four re-watches to appreciate seasons two and four.

Stare-Out
Mar 11, 2010

not all who wander are lost


Syrian Lannister posted:

It took me, probably three or four re-watches to appreciate seasons two and four.

Same, with two specifically. The shift was so hard to take but soon after I realized that it was all on me, expecting a show to just keep on the same thing, and the same thing only throughout seasons like other, lesser shows.

Sarern
Nov 4, 2008


Won't you take me to
Bomertown?
Won't you take me to
BONERTOWN?



I'm watching the show with my girlfriend (my second time, her first), and we just finished season 2 last weekend. I like season 2 a lot more now that I know where it's going, and she... did not like it nearly as much as season 1. However, she has been closely watching Stringer pulling away from Avon and is super hyped for season 3 after correctly guessing what one of the major conflicts would be. I had no idea that was going on my first time watching season 2, but it was much clearer the second time.

Athanatos
Jun 7, 2006

Est. 1967


Syrian Lannister posted:

It took me, probably three or four re-watches to appreciate seasons two and four.

2 sets up so much stuff so when you rewatch it or think back, it is so much better. First watch I was down on it, but once I hit the end: all the pieces matter.

General Battuta
Feb 7, 2011

This is how you communicate with a fellow intelligence: you hurt it, you keep on hurting it, until you can distinguish the posts from the screams.

It's really hard to go from the climax of season 1, after everything's been set up and you've become invested in all the characters, back to the beginning of the process. Brains don't like to learn, we want our comfortable things we know we enjoy.

Absolutely worth it though.

Darko
Dec 23, 2004



4 is objectively the best. 2 gets you ready for it.

Thats how you realize its not a "normal" show and a group of interconnected mythological tragedies where you follow different protagonists.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


I loved season 2 right from the first time I saw it, but it's absolutely understandable why it turned so many people off on a first viewing. Season 4 though, that season is a goddamn masterpiece, the only single season of television I'd put above it is Season 3 of Twin Peaks, and that doesn't count because it's really an 18 hour movie.

Ginette Reno
Nov 18, 2006

Hey Sid Do you believe in UFOs, astral projections, mental telepathy, ESP, clairvoyance, spirit photography, telekinetic movement, full trance mediums, the Loch Ness monster, and the theory of Atlantis?

Fun Shoe

A lot of people rate 4 as the best and I do like but I dunno. On my recent re-watch I felt like I enjoyed 3 the most. There's a lot going on in that season and it all owns.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


One nice thing about "rating" seasons of The Wire is that whichever one ends up as the "worst" (season 5) it's still head and shoulders above most all other television out there.

Groundskeeper Silly
Sep 1, 2005

My philosophy...
The first rule is:
You look good.


Jerusalem posted:

One nice thing about "rating" seasons of The Wire is that whichever one ends up as the "worst" (season 5) it's still head and shoulders above most all other television out there.

What was the point of the serial killer plotline? Almost every other major plotline seemed both realistic (enough) and provided insight into some system or structure or group of people. Was it just to show that the newspaper's bosses were eager to print sensational stories, even if they were a little fishy? Surely there were ways to do that that were had some basis in reality.

christmas boots
Oct 15, 2012

To these sing-alongs of siren songs
To oohs to ahhs to big applause
With all of my anger I scream and shout
America, I love you but you're freaking me out


Biscuit Hider

Groundskeeper Silly posted:

What was the point of the serial killer plotline? Almost every other major plotline seemed both realistic (enough) and provided insight into some system or structure or group of people. Was it just to show that the newspaper's bosses were eager to print sensational stories, even if they were a little fishy? Surely there were ways to do that that were had some basis in reality.

David Simon had an axe to grind and he was a little too close to the subject matter. In particular Scott Templeton is sort of cobbled together from a bunch of other reporters that blatantly made up quotes and scenes and even won Pulitzers before being caught.

The serial killer stuff might be a bit out there but the idea that the publishers care more about selling the paper and the prestige than they do about the veracity is not wrong.

God Hole
Mar 2, 2016


Groundskeeper Silly posted:

What was the point of the serial killer plotline? Almost every other major plotline seemed both realistic (enough) and provided insight into some system or structure or group of people. Was it just to show that the newspaper's bosses were eager to print sensational stories, even if they were a little fishy? Surely there were ways to do that that were had some basis in reality.

in retrospect the serial killer plotline is very apt. it shows that police departments have to invent enemies from eclectic and unrelated phenomena in order to justify their existence and extract ridiculous amounts of money from corrupt administrations.

if it's not serial killers, it's junkies, "superpredators", the presence of broken windows, or even a virus!

https://abc7chicago.com/covid-relief-cpd-budget-lightfoot-chicago-police/10350078/

notthegoatseguy
Sep 6, 2005
I'm a petty asshole



christmas boots posted:

David Simon had an axe to grind and he was a little too close to the subject matter. In particular Scott Templeton is sort of cobbled together from a bunch of other reporters that blatantly made up quotes and scenes and even won Pulitzers before being caught.

That one scene where they literally name 3-4 of them was a bit on the nose. Like we get it, this dude is a Stephen Glass stand-in. You don't need to reference it by name.

Rollie Fingers
Jul 28, 2002


I just found the idea of an honest and principled journalist for a mainstream American newspaper too far fetched. What was Gus doing when the written press were fabricating stories about Saddam's weapons of mass destruction and cheerleading for war based on literal made up evidence? I mean it was only five years earlier.

The whole Baltimore Sun storyline felt like it belonged in the 70s rather than Iraq War America.

Ainsley McTree
Feb 19, 2004




Rollie Fingers posted:

I just found the idea of an honest and principled journalist for a mainstream American newspaper too far fetched. What was Gus doing when the written press were fabricating stories about Saddam's weapons of mass destruction and cheerleading for war based on literal made up evidence? I mean it was only five years earlier.

The whole Baltimore Sun storyline felt like it belonged in the 70s rather than Iraq War America.

Yeah, gus definitely comes across as a bit of a righteous self-insert and the season suffers a little for it (same for the irredeemably out of touch bosses, although the more radicalized i become against mainstream american media, the less of a caricature they seem to be, but they're still pretty poo poo characters).

That said, for as noble and holy as Gus comes across, the show goes out of its way to point out that even he doesn't really care about any of the violence going on in Baltimore's "zip codes that don't matter." IIRC there's a scene where he (gonna put this major spoiler in tags for the person who posted recently about how they just started watching the show) spikes the article about Omar's death in favor of...I don't even remember what, actually. So this larger than life legend of the streets isn't even important enough to register as a footnote in the city's paper of record, even to the guy that we're supposed to think is one of the good ones.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


Crossposting from the Mad Men thread of all places:

The biggest problem with season 5 to my mind is that Simon didn't have anywhere near the distance he needed to tell a story about the Baltimore Sun, and Ed Burns wasn't around to rein in his worst excesses like Simon was for him in Season 4 and the school storyline.

Simon later noted that he was trying to make a point about how the newspaper and its employees were so caught up in their own self-importance (Gus in particular beneath the surface level "super journalist/editor" bullshit) that even when they had successes they completely failed to note actual major, giant media stories happening right under their noses. Except Simon did a really, really bad job of telling that story, especially since every other "Boss" in the other seasons gets a chance to demonstrate why they are the way they are, the forces that conspired to put them into these positions, the value they actually have in some capacities etc.... but in Season 5, the Baltimore Sun Editors are just incredibly 1-dimensional rear end in a top hat idiots who don't know anything and have dumb concerns and they smell bad too!

The serial killer storyline is completely over-the-top, but then so is Hamsterdam even if it is based on some real life ideas/situations, and I think the bigger issue remains that Simon and Burns complement each other really well and without one or the other there you run the risk of things getting a little too unbalanced. Burns pulled off Season 4 masterfully but that was with Simon there working alongside him, who knows what might have been without a mitigating force as a writer there... but Simon was able to basically do season 5 unimpeded while Burns was setting things up for Generation Kill, and season 5 suffers for it. The season still has some absolutely incredible moments and storylines running through it though, it's just for the first time really there is some badly done stuff prominently in place alongside with all the good stuff.

Ainsley McTree
Feb 19, 2004




Jerusalem posted:

but in Season 5, the Baltimore Sun Editors are just incredibly 1-dimensional rear end in a top hat idiots who don't know anything and have dumb concerns and they smell bad too!

also one of them was basically named Rich Whiteman

actually James Whiting but pretty close

Yates
Jan 29, 2010

People might look at you a bit funny, but it's okay. MVPs are allowed to be a bit different


First watch season 3 was the best, subsequent viewings season 2 was the best. Probably 3,4,1,2,5 the first time and 2,4,3,1,5 the subsequent viewings. Season 4 is amazing it just hurts too much.

ruddiger
Jun 3, 2004



Chris Partlow was a serial killer and the city barely shrugged its shoulders. Add in white victims and weird sex poo poo and all of a sudden itís a political emergency because voters might hold the people in power accountable for something.

The Grim Sleeper operated in Los Angeles for DECADES because of similar situations.

Orange Devil
Sep 30, 2010

CUNT


Jerusalem posted:

Simon later noted that he was trying to make a point about how the newspaper and its employees were so caught up in their own self-importance (Gus in particular beneath the surface level "super journalist/editor" bullshit) that even when they had successes they completely failed to note actual major, giant media stories happening right under their noses. Except Simon did a really, really bad job of telling that story, especially since every other "Boss" in the other seasons gets a chance to demonstrate why they are the way they are, the forces that conspired to put them into these positions, the value they actually have in some capacities etc.... but in Season 5, the Baltimore Sun Editors are just incredibly 1-dimensional rear end in a top hat idiots who don't know anything and have dumb concerns and they smell bad too!

I agree with this on a narrative structure level.

However, looking at real life, the newspaper bosses were probably rich failsons whose backstory of "why they are the way they are" and "the forces that conspired to put them into these positions" is utterly unsympathetic (because failsons and meritocracy is a lie) and "the value they actually have in some capacities" is nill, unless we count having connections and brownnosing as capacities.

Vichan
Oct 1, 2014

I'LL PUNISH YOU ACCORDING TO YOUR CRIME

Rollie Fingers posted:

He leaves the force after "unfair" accusations that he's racist (for shooting dead the first black guy he saw running)

To be fair he was brandishing a gun himself.

General Battuta
Feb 7, 2011

This is how you communicate with a fellow intelligence: you hurt it, you keep on hurting it, until you can distinguish the posts from the screams.

Vichan
Oct 1, 2014

I'LL PUNISH YOU ACCORDING TO YOUR CRIME


Don't get me wrong, there was nothing right about that shooting and I agree with Rollie Fingers in general.

CBJSprague24
Dec 5, 2010

Again, Torts took him to a very high mountain and showed him Nationwide and all its splendor.

"All this I will give you," he said, "if you will lay down and block for me." -Jackets 15:16




After a Reno 911 and Letterkenny-induced hiatus of a year or so, I finally finished Season 3 and Jesus Christ, what an ending.

I figured the Barksdale saga had to end at some point, but I didn't expect it to end so soon and for Avon and Stringer to betray each other. There was something satisfying about Avon reading the warrant which revealed Stringer snitched on him. Given that that's ended, I've got a bad feeling the show is going to shift to being politics-heavy and I'm already tired of Climber Carcetti.

There are so many subtle placements in this show which make you go , the biggest toward the end of the season being Rawls in a gay bar as Brother Mouzone's (spoilered because it'd have been way more fun being surprised he came back rather than catching it as a spoiler accidentally, much as it was accidentally seeing why Rawls was in the spoilered location) heavy walks out after trying to find intel on Omar.

I think one of the biggest takeaways I have about this show is something I compare to Better Call Saul; lots of intertwining subplots in one show. The difference between the two is BCS probably should be two shows (Lawyer Show and Cartel Corner, with occasional crossover episodes, as much as I hate them in general); The Wire does a fantastic job of jumping around and covering everything in one.

Concurred
Apr 23, 2003

My team got swept out of the playoffs, and all I got was this avatar and red text



Orange Devil posted:

Actually you'll find that season 4 and 2 are the best seasons of the show, objectively and in that order.

4, 2, 3, 1, 5

Ainsley McTree
Feb 19, 2004




Concurred posted:

4, 2, 3, 1, 5

I reverse 4 and 2 depending on which one I happen to be watching at the time but I think this is it for me too yeah.

Also probably how Iíd rate the theme songs

MrBling
Aug 21, 2003

Oozing machismo

CBJSprague24 posted:

After a Reno 911 and Letterkenny-induced hiatus of a year or so, I finally finished Season 3 and Jesus Christ, what an ending.

I figured the Barksdale saga had to end at some point, but I didn't expect it to end so soon and for Avon and Stringer to betray each other. There was something satisfying about Avon reading the warrant which revealed Stringer snitched on him. Given that that's ended, I've got a bad feeling the show is going to shift to being politics-heavy and I'm already tired of Climber Carcetti.


On the other hand, in season 4 you get to see Reg E. Cathey being just incredibly great as Carcetti's campaign adviser.

Hasselblad
Dec 13, 2017
NRA shill who thinks homeless people would love to live in migrant border camps. Help me realize I am a bigoted piece of shit.


Balls. Wire no longer prime eligible.

algebra testes
Mar 5, 2011




Lipstick Apathy

The Little Things isn't very good, but Chris Bauer is good in it, shout out to my man, don't go under the bridge!

General Battuta
Feb 7, 2011

This is how you communicate with a fellow intelligence: you hurt it, you keep on hurting it, until you can distinguish the posts from the screams.

algebra testes posted:

The Little Things isn't very good, but Chris Bauer is good in it, shout out to my man, don't go under the bridge!

He's great as Deke Slayton in FOR ALL MANKIND too.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


General Battuta posted:

He's great as Deke Slayton in FOR ALL MANKIND too.

Yeah, plus it looks like he has lost a ton of weight (in a good way) even if he's one of those guys who looks perpetually 45.

christmas boots
Oct 15, 2012

To these sing-alongs of siren songs
To oohs to ahhs to big applause
With all of my anger I scream and shout
America, I love you but you're freaking me out


Biscuit Hider

Jerusalem posted:

Yeah, plus it looks like he has lost a ton of weight (in a good way) even if he's one of those guys who looks perpetually 45.

He was actually wearing a fat suit for The Wire.

MrBling
Aug 21, 2003

Oozing machismo

Tangentially related to The Wire (ie. Michael Kostroff was in it, and David Simon made it) I watched The Plot Against America over the last couple of days.
It was really good! And also really bleak.

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Vichan
Oct 1, 2014

I'LL PUNISH YOU ACCORDING TO YOUR CRIME

MrBling posted:

Tangentially related to The Wire (ie. Michael Kostroff was in it, and David Simon made it) I watched The Plot Against America over the last couple of days.
It was really good! And also really bleak.

Loved the show as well, absolutely loathed the ending.

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