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Van Dis
Jun 19, 2004


General Battuta posted:

People aren't gay to add to a theme or character. They're just gay. They're tall or short, they're thin or fat, they're straight or gay or bi or whatever, it's just a trait people have.

I certainly agree, and I think including Rawls in the bar scene is an example of the writers being overeager to spell out what is already easily inferred from his previous characterization.

I also think that in the service of good storytelling doing things with characters should mean things. That's one of the reasons shows like The Wire and Sopranos and Breaking Bad are still so heavily discussed, and by contrast why Game of Thrones is now only heavily discussed for its failure to do meaningful things with its characters. Not everything has to be laden with significance and it is to all our benefit that in 2020 characters can be gay or trans or whatever without burdening them with thematic significance. But it makes sense to ask thematic questions and look for significance and generally be attentive and inquisitive when a major supporting character appears in a scene that he has absolutely no connection to. And while I can understand the "it doesn't mean anything" argument, I think it should and does, and comes off sloppy for it, which is itself an unfortunate trend in the later seasons.

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General Battuta
Feb 7, 2011

This is how you communicate with a fellow intelligence: you hurt it, you keep on hurting it, until you can distinguish the posts from the screams.

It’s not intrinsically better writing to have a character’s traits left to subtext. Concealing Prop Joe’s hair color wouldn’t be dramatically preferable to showing it. Rawls is gay on screen and that’s good because too often gay characters are given plausible textual deniability to avoid pissing off homophobes.

If you want to dig into it thematically, consider that Rawls’ sexual orientation changes absolutely nothing about his behavior as a cop. He’s got a hidden side that might in theory make him sympathetic to the ‘other’ but in practice he’s still a fully incorporated armature of the war on drugs. Either he’s a true believer or very very good at playing his role without any qualms or moral hesitation. Or he’s really good at leaving his work at work, unlike McNulty or Kima.

Van Dis
Jun 19, 2004


I agree with the edited version of your post more than the original, but I still think Rawls' bar appearance is clumsy writing.

Athanatos
Jun 7, 2006

Laser Rocket Arm


Syrian Lannister posted:

Avon giving money to Cutty I think falls back to the respect he had for him, both in Jessup, and when he walked away from the game in season 3.

I absolutely love that scene:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaA0nmn8_fk

Cutty being honest with Avon and himself.

Slim Charles nervous look back and forth, unsure what is about to happen.

The look of absolute shock when Avon just says "Alright, we good"

Avon's leadership, Slim's loyalty and Cutty's bravery.

Konstantin
Jun 20, 2005
And the Lord said, "Look, they are one people, and they have all one language; and this is only the beginning of what they will do; nothing that they propose to do will now be impossible for them.

I remember there was a deleted scene in Season 5 where it's implied Steintorf gives Rawls a blowjob in order to make sure he stays quiet about the serial killer being a hoax. I think the scene should have been deleted, but it does show the writers clearly saw Rawls's orientation as an important part of his character.

escape artist
Sep 24, 2005

Slow train coming


Konstantin posted:

I remember there was a deleted scene in Season 5 where it's implied Steintorf gives Rawls a blowjob in order to make sure he stays quiet about the serial killer being a hoax. I think the scene should have been deleted, but it does show the writers clearly saw Rawls's orientation as an important part of his character.

I have never heard of anything like this and it sounds too preposterous too be true. Source?

Athanatos posted:

I absolutely love that scene:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaA0nmn8_fk

Cutty being honest with Avon and himself.

Slim Charles nervous look back and forth, unsure what is about to happen.

The look of absolute shock when Avon just says "Alright, we good"

Avon's leadership, Slim's loyalty and Cutty's bravery.

"B, he was a man in his time, you know?"
"He a man TODAY. He a man."

escape artist fucked around with this message at 18:38 on Sep 15, 2020

Ainsley McTree
Feb 19, 2004




Nap Ghost

BiggerBoat posted:

Avon also chuckled when Cutty hit him with the figure he had in mind that he was real nervous about even bringing up.

I love that scene so much. Avon is so disinterested and Cutty is just sweating bullets, when at the end of the day the amount he's asking for is so inconsequential to Avon that he didn't even need to bother with a sales pitch.

Konstantin
Jun 20, 2005
And the Lord said, "Look, they are one people, and they have all one language; and this is only the beginning of what they will do; nothing that they propose to do will now be impossible for them.

escape artist posted:

I have never heard of anything like this and it sounds too preposterous too be true. Source?



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFXj2zpAL1U

Ainsley McTree
Feb 19, 2004




Nap Ghost


did they do it in the hallway

escape artist
Sep 24, 2005

Slow train coming



what the gently caress?

Athanatos
Jun 7, 2006

Laser Rocket Arm


It's from the season 5 gag reel that was edited into that clip:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRlw9hKDU-Q#t=132s

ilmucche
Mar 16, 2016

The magnificent story of Dwayt al-Shrood.



So I've blitzed through about 40ish pages.of this thread after 100 to try and catch up and there's some great stuff written. Odes.to donut are pretty funny, but that post about poot being the coldest guy on the show was excellent.

Avon giving cutty the money is one of my favourite scenes in the show. Avon respecting someone who's worked and been loyal for so long wanting to get out also speaks to his character. I don't think stringer would've had even close to the same reaction. If Avon had refused then what we're cutty's options?

ilmucche fucked around with this message at 20:53 on Sep 15, 2020

bucketybuck
Apr 8, 2012


ilmucche posted:

Odes.to donut are pretty funny, but that post about poot being the coldest guy on the show was excellent.

When Stringer was giving his pretentious speech about "Product" to all the Barksdale crew and making them stick to the silly Robert rules of order, Slim and Bodie were cagily trying to make the point that without the corners they might look weak. Stringer condescendingly dismissed them of course, "Well I'll worry about that when I have to" with a smug smirk on his face.

Poot was there, letting them all talk until it was clear the likes of Bodie weren't getting anywhere. At which point he cut through all the double talk and bluntly said to the top man in the organisation, "Does the chair know we gonna look like some punk rear end bitches out there."

Everybody was thinking it but only Poot had the balls to say it. It caused Stringer to totally lose his cool and face down Poot. Now Poot was smart enough to know he couldn't be allowed to win that fight just there and then and so eventually lowered his gaze to let Stringer have control again, but be honest, there was a few seconds where the people watching couldn't be sure Poot was actually going to back down. It was Stringer Bell in his face and he wasn't one bit scared.

Poot. The only man there ready to speak truth to power. Hard as nails.

Athanatos
Jun 7, 2006

Laser Rocket Arm


Poot also stood by Bodie when they were coming for him at the end. He was there the entire time till Bodie looked back and let him know this was it, he wasn't backing down and he let Poot go.

Poot stood there while every other person on the corner bailed at the first shot.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


Holy poo poo, into season 3 of the Down in the Hole podcast on the Wire and they went on a tangent about Kwame Kilpatrick and it's a hell of a loving story I had never heard of before.

Athanatos posted:

Poot also stood by Bodie when they were coming for him at the end. He was there the entire time till Bodie looked back and let him know this was it, he wasn't backing down and he let Poot go.

Poot stood there while every other person on the corner bailed at the first shot.

I love that Poot was last man standing on the board and basically went,"Okay gently caress this" and just quit and went to work in a shoe store and just stopped being involved at all.

ilmucche
Mar 16, 2016

The magnificent story of Dwayt al-Shrood.



Doesn't someone come by and he casually says he used to be in the game but got out? No judgement, but just "yeah, I used to do that"

Doesn't seem like he carries it with him

bucketybuck
Apr 8, 2012


ilmucche posted:

Doesn't someone come by and he casually says he used to be in the game but got out? No judgement, but just "yeah, I used to do that"

Doesn't seem like he carries it with him

As he so eloquently said to Dukie, "poo poo got old".

Those aren't the words of a man tormented by his memories, just a guy who recognised that the time had come to move on.

If you think about it as well, Poot was living in a squat trying to earn his living selling drugs on a corner. It wouldn't be easy at all to be in that situation but then find, get and keep a real job, but you see Poot in that shoe store and you get the sense that he will be running it soon enough. Man knows how to graft.

Ginette Reno
Nov 18, 2006



Fun Shoe

I always liked how Rawls tries to make his move to supplant Burrell and then falls on his face, and how Burrell after being portrayed as inept at operations for much of the series later proves his political worth to Carcetti by helping him handle the Herc situation. Then there's Marlo who we rarely see getting his hands dirty and there is maybe that lingering doubt about why he has the following he does and then we see at the end of the series with that scuffle on a corner that oh he can actually handle himself on the street pretty well when he has to.

Chase does a good job showing why all of these people get into the positions they're in. It's not an accident that Burrell has the role he does. He may be inept at operations, but he's as skilled politically as anyone in the police department, and that does at times bring real value to the Mayors he answers to. And then there's Daniels who for all his integrity and excellence at operations is unwilling (and in some ways unable) to play the political game well, a requirement to climb the ladder all the way to the top. Rawls is skilled at executing Burrell's initiatives, but not all that great at actual politics.

bucketybuck
Apr 8, 2012


Ginette Reno posted:

I always liked how Rawls tries to make his move to supplant Burrell and then falls on his face, and how Burrell after being portrayed as inept at operations for much of the series later proves his political worth to Carcetti by helping him handle the Herc situation. Then there's Marlo who we rarely see getting his hands dirty and there is maybe that lingering doubt about why he has the following he does and then we see at the end of the series with that scuffle on a corner that oh he can actually handle himself on the street pretty well when he has to.

Chase does a good job showing why all of these people get into the positions they're in. It's not an accident that Burrell has the role he does. He may be inept at operations, but he's as skilled politically as anyone in the police department, and that does at times bring real value to the Mayors he answers to. And then there's Daniels who for all his integrity and excellence at operations is unwilling (and in some ways unable) to play the political game well, a requirement to climb the ladder all the way to the top. Rawls is skilled at executing Burrell's initiatives, but not all that great at actual politics.

I don't know about that, after all, in the end Rawls rose higher than any of them and he did so by making smart moves at the right times. I think politically he did the very best that he could all things considered, he did supplant Burrell and the only reason it was wasn't long term was because he was white at a time that when that didn't suit. And even then he parlayed that situation into another promotion for himself, unlike Burrell who simply got moved along.

I also wouldn't give Burrell too much credit for knowing a sneaky way to handle the Herc situation. Daniels may have been too straight forward for a case like that but I would totally see Rawls finding some obscure regulation to use as a way to manage out an employee.

Ginette Reno
Nov 18, 2006



Fun Shoe

bucketybuck posted:

I don't know about that, after all, in the end Rawls rose higher than any of them and he did so by making smart moves at the right times. I think politically he did the very best that he could all things considered, he did supplant Burrell and the only reason it was wasn't long term was because he was white at a time that when that didn't suit. And even then he parlayed that situation into another promotion for himself, unlike Burrell who simply got moved along.

I also wouldn't give Burrell too much credit for knowing a sneaky way to handle the Herc situation. Daniels may have been too straight forward for a case like that but I would totally see Rawls finding some obscure regulation to use as a way to manage out an employee.

Rawls completely misread the room when he talked to Carcetti and blamed Burrell's position on affirmative action. He also completely misunderstood that Carcetti could never put a white man as commissioner when he himself was a white mayor. That would never get by the ministers and some of his base. Valchek even makes fun of Rawls for thinking he's got a shot at Burrell's job, but Valchek is far more politically savy than Rawls.

I think Rawls only real political skill (if you could call it that) is that he's loyal to his superiors and completely unbending when it comes to implementing their aims. The only time he shows any disloyalty to a superior at all is to Burrell and he only does that because Carcetti directly tells him that Burrell has to clear any orders through Rawls first.

He's an excellent deputy opps (at least far as his superiors are concerned) because he executes the will of his superiors without any reservations at all, no matter who that hurts or annoys below him. But I don't think he has the political skills of Burrell who might not know the best way to execute policies but does know how to navigate political situations.

The only one on Burrell's level politically in the department is Valchek.

Athanatos
Jun 7, 2006

Laser Rocket Arm


bucketybuck posted:

As he so eloquently said to Dukie, "poo poo got old".

Those aren't the words of a man tormented by his memories, just a guy who recognised that the time had come to move on.

If you think about it as well, Poot was living in a squat trying to earn his living selling drugs on a corner. It wouldn't be easy at all to be in that situation but then find, get and keep a real job, but you see Poot in that shoe store and you get the sense that he will be running it soon enough. Man knows how to graft.

In the Wire "everyone becomes someone" way, Poot is the new flower guy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pazj7Vo-wk

zenguitarman
Apr 6, 2009

Come on, lemme see ya shake your tail feather




Everyone forgetting about Shorty Boyd smh

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


I think the smartest thing Rawls ever did (career wise) was when Steintorf told him his plans were going to fail, and instead of arguing or trying to think up a counter-strategy, he just straight up asked Steintorf to tell him what he SHOULD do.

That's part of what made him so valuable to the likes of Carcetti, because he really is a guy who will just do what he is told (and effectively) once it has been made clear to him that the person above him has more stroke than him.

Krazyface
Jul 15, 2011

A: to get those sweet first-place bonus points



Hair Elf

It's weird how little time the show spends in the towers, given how important they are

deoju
Jul 11, 2004

All the pieces matter.


Nap Ghost

From what I read they were inspired by two projects that were demolished years before the show began. And they were CGI'd into the background.

https://www.pbs.org/independentlens...ls-in-the-rest/

"Baltimoreans of a certain vintage can also date it by the high-rise housing projects CGI-ed into some scenes—most were torn down more than 20 years ago, before the series filmed."


https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/b...9055-story.html

https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/b...0168-story.html


Edit: if you haven't seen it already, you might check out Show Me a Hero. Simon and Burns go deeper into public housing issues.

deoju fucked around with this message at 03:44 on Sep 17, 2020

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


Show Me A Hero is excellent, I think it is the first thing I saw Oscar Isaac in and he's tremendous in it.

goodog
Nov 3, 2007



bucketybuck posted:

As he so eloquently said to Dukie, "poo poo got old".

Those aren't the words of a man tormented by his memories, just a guy who recognised that the time had come to move on.

If you think about it as well, Poot was living in a squat trying to earn his living selling drugs on a corner. It wouldn't be easy at all to be in that situation but then find, get and keep a real job, but you see Poot in that shoe store and you get the sense that he will be running it soon enough. Man knows how to graft.

Poot also had the age and experience where he could finally start make some decent money working for another drug organisation. The low ranking corner kids made practically nothing, but they were baited with the promise of glory and rapid advancement. It takes some real willpower to start again at square one with a minimum wage retail job, knowing that you could leave it any day and make fast money with illegal activities. In that way he's also another cycle of Cutty; choosing a humble life and helping kids after learning some bitter life lessons.

Konstantin
Jun 20, 2005
And the Lord said, "Look, they are one people, and they have all one language; and this is only the beginning of what they will do; nothing that they propose to do will now be impossible for them.

I doubt it, everything in the drug game is about connections, and Poot worked under a known snitch who was killed by the king. Maybe once Marlo was out of the game, he might have gotten a job under Slim Charles, assuming Slim knew who he was and felt like doing him a favor.

ilmucche
Mar 16, 2016

The magnificent story of Dwayt al-Shrood.



Konstantin posted:

I doubt it, everything in the drug game is about connections, and Poot worked under a known snitch who was killed by the king. Maybe once Marlo was out of the game, he might have gotten a job under Slim Charles, assuming Slim knew who he was and felt like doing him a favor.

I think he could've come in relatively well placed with slim charles given they were both barksdale organization before. Bodie and poot never folded properly to marlo as well.

Poot just had enough and moved on. The way poot talks to dukie if I remember right is that dukie wasn't old enough to get a job yet. Maybe poot was waiting until he was old enough, and when the corners got too hot he shrugged it off and said it was time to move on.

I don't remember well, which means it's probably time for a rewatch of the whole series.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


The other thing is that Poot kind of only really cared about one thing, which was having sex with lots of women, and it's harder to do that when you're in jail

ilmucche posted:

it's probably time for a rewatch of the whole series.

That's on my family crest.

Slo-Tek
Jun 8, 2001

WINDOWS 98 BEAT HIS FRIEND WITH A SHOVEL

Krazyface posted:

It's weird how little time the show spends in the towers, given how important they are

The towers had been long demolished by the time it was filmed, and...wouldn't have been a good place to film either.

Also, they aren't important. That is part of the point. Thousands of living souls nobody gives a poo poo about.

Krazyface
Jul 15, 2011

A: to get those sweet first-place bonus points



Hair Elf

The show spends a lot of time around schools, docks, and junkies nobody gives a poo poo about. Obviously I meant the towers are important to the game and the characters.

Athanatos
Jun 7, 2006

Laser Rocket Arm


The only shot of the towers that matters:

Syrian Lannister
Aug 25, 2007

Oh, did I kill him too?
I've been a very busy little man.


Sugartime Jones

Athanatos posted:

The only shot of the towers that matters:


GoutPatrol
Oct 17, 2009

Coal Jobs for the Coal God


ilmucche posted:


Poot just had enough and moved on. The way poot talks to dukie if I remember right is that dukie wasn't old enough to get a job yet. Maybe poot was waiting until he was old enough, and when the corners got too hot he shrugged it off and said it was time to move on.

I think Poot is only 22-23 by the end of the series, if that.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


Poot being super-impressed by Bodie's floral display is so great

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxMPTEeoShU#t=81s

nwin
Feb 25, 2002

make's u think


Fallen Rib

What the gently caress did they put on the dog that killed cheese’s dawg?

dreffen
Dec 3, 2005

MEDIOCRE, MORSOV!



nwin posted:

What the gently caress did they put on the dog that killed cheese’s dawg?

Not really explicitly explained but something to discourage Cheese's dog from biting.

Pheromones' or something was always my guess.

escape artist
Sep 24, 2005

Slow train coming


dreffen posted:

Not really explicitly explained but something to discourage Cheese's dog from biting.

Pheromones' or something was always my guess.

I just thought it was an oil to make the dog slicker, so that Cheese's dog couldn't get a good grip / bite. Thinking about it again, just anything that had a really bad odor / taste might work to repel biting.

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Suxpool
Nov 20, 2002
I want something good to die for...to make it beautiful to live

I always assumed it was something along the lines of ipecac. Something to make the dog sick after it gets in its mouth.

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