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White Rabbit
Sep 8, 2004

We Do Not Sow.

I painfully got through the fifth episode of that Way down in the hole podcast, what a poo poo show that was. There was barely enough insight to fill in 12 minutes. They spent maybe that much time comparing characters to LeBron James and some other NBA players, I guess I'm too European to care.

I didnt mind the first couple episodes but the best part was actually hearing quotes from the show now that I think about it.

I'm disapointed cuz they manage to gently caress up talking about the wire, which I didnt think possible. Do they eventually keep their focus on the show and do they have interesting guests at some point?

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pokeyman
Nov 26, 2006

That elephant ate my entire platoon.



White Rabbit posted:

Do they eventually keep their focus on the show and do they have interesting guests at some point?

I made it through season one and the first couple of season two, then bailed. I didn't notice any change in that run. If you didn't like it after five episodes you won't like the next ten.

The North Tower
Aug 20, 2007

You should throw it in the ocean.

No, not at all, but itís enough filler to listen to while Iím at work. Canít do like History of English or Revolutions when Iím reading something important. Sopranos podcast has the same feel, but at least they have some good behind the scenes trivia and some good guests.

The North Tower
Aug 20, 2007

You should throw it in the ocean.

Itís been a while, but is the Daniels end that heís going to get investigated for his crimes from before the show started?

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


Nope, Daniels walks free and clear but has to retire. Basically he suffers the same fate as McNulty & Freamon except all he did wrong was do his job extremely well and then refuse to lie about crime statistics. Ironically he ends up doing the same thing his ex always wanted him to do, he uses his law degree and becomes a defense attorney, and Pearlman becomes a judge so they basically get about as happy an ending as they could hope for. Well deserved for both of them.

As he says himself, even if they did investigate him there isn't enough there in the file to actually do more than cause a bit of an embarrassment and maybe muddy the waters somewhat, but certainly not leave him facing any jailtime. The bigger issue is that the stink alone would be enough to ruin his ex-wife's political ambitions just by association with him, and he isn't willing to threaten to reveal the far more illegal and monstrous acts the likes of Burrell, Rawls and Carcetti took part in to hold onto his position.

The North Tower
Aug 20, 2007

You should throw it in the ocean.

Jerusalem posted:

Nope, Daniels walks free and clear but has to retire. Basically he suffers the same fate as McNulty & Freamon except all he did wrong was do his job extremely well and then refuse to lie about crime statistics. Ironically he ends up doing the same thing his ex always wanted him to do, he uses his law degree and becomes a defense attorney, and Pearlman becomes a judge so they basically get about as happy an ending as they could hope for. Well deserved for both of them.

As he says himself, even if they did investigate him there isn't enough there in the file to actually do more than cause a bit of an embarrassment and maybe muddy the waters somewhat, but certainly not leave him facing any jailtime. The bigger issue is that the stink alone would be enough to ruin his ex-wife's political ambitions just by association with him, and he isn't willing to threaten to reveal the far more illegal and monstrous acts the likes of Burrell, Rawls and Carcetti took part in to hold onto his position.

Okay, so the embarrassed congressman out, I guess? Not bad, all things considered. Do you think itís implied Naymond becomes another Clay Davis? Able to use his upbringing before Bunny to claim street cred, but brought up in comfort to be able to navigate the system?

awesmoe
Nov 30, 2005



Pillbug

The North Tower posted:

Okay, so the embarrassed congressman out, I guess? Not bad, all things considered. Do you think itís implied Naymond becomes another Clay Davis? Able to use his upbringing before Bunny to claim street cred, but brought up in comfort to be able to navigate the system?

it's pretty clearly stated that he can be anything he drat please (except a soldier)
like, it's up to him how he chooses to use the opportunity hes been given, and there's no sign that I saw of him using that to corrupt ends

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


Yeah, he's put into a secure home environment with guardians who care for him but also are mindful of making sure he does his studies, cleans up after himself, minds his manners etc and you see in his debate/speech performance that's he's responding really well.

He's basically a great example of how kids will thrive when given opportunities, resources and strong role models.

goodog
Nov 3, 2007



There's also the dark irony that Namond gets this opportunity because he's disruptive in school and relatively middle class by the standards of his peers. The other three boys in their clique are better behaved and have far worse home environments, and they're stuck in the cyclical underclass.

Namond deserves an opportunity as much as anyone, but Bunny is only aware he exists because he's a spoilt prick who ends up in the special class.

goodog fucked around with this message at 13:48 on Oct 28, 2020

Ginette Reno
Nov 18, 2006



Fun Shoe

It sucks that the other kids didn't get the same opportunity but Namond is probably the least suited of all of them for a life on the streets. Bunny isn't being hyperbolic when he tells Wee-Bay that Namond is going to end up dead or in prison if he tries to follow in his foot steps.

Also Namond isn't the only one who gets out I guess. Bug possibly does as well? He gets away from his toxic mother and his pedo father and as much as Michael cares for him getting away from him is probably a good thing too given how Michael earns his money.

God Hole
Mar 2, 2016


Ginette Reno posted:

It sucks that the other kids didn't get the same opportunity but Namond is probably the least suited of all of them for a life on the streets. Bunny isn't being hyperbolic when he tells Wee-Bay that Namond is going to end up dead or in prison if he tries to follow in his foot steps.

Also Namond isn't the only one who gets out I guess. Bug possibly does as well? He gets away from his toxic mother and his pedo father and as much as Michael cares for him getting away from him is probably a good thing too given how Michael earns his money.

i would argue dukie was the least suited for life on the streets

Mr. Prokosch
Feb 14, 2012

Behold My Magnificence!


White Rabbit posted:

I painfully got through the fifth episode of that Way down in the hole podcast, what a poo poo show that was. There was barely enough insight to fill in 12 minutes. They spent maybe that much time comparing characters to LeBron James and some other NBA players, I guess I'm too European to care.

I didnt mind the first couple episodes but the best part was actually hearing quotes from the show now that I think about it.

I'm disapointed cuz they manage to gently caress up talking about the wire, which I didnt think possible. Do they eventually keep their focus on the show and do they have interesting guests at some point?

Yeah, I've listened to all of them and they don't really change. The hosts both worked in sports so they are waaaaay too into sports metaphors and the kind of meaningless filler sports talk you hear from sports shows that aren't actually sports.

Sometimes they have good insights though, and they usually have a solid take on the Wire. Their deep dive into Ziggy was on the money and the 'side bars' are funny even if they aren't about the Wire.

Chas McGill
Oct 29, 2010


I find the podcast pleasant to listen to even if it isn't particularly insightful. Maybe that's just due to them reminding me of moments from episodes, so it's kinda like indirectly rewatching it while I do other stuff.

The best parts are when the hosts talk about their own experiences and how they've known similar characters in real life.

I also think they've got a good rapport so I don't mind the digressions much.

TL
Jan 16, 2006

Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold; Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world


https://twitter.com/pixelatedboat/s...6405963776?s=20

Angryhead
Apr 4, 2009

Don't call my name
Don't call my name
Alejandro




Fallen Rib

Really enjoyed this video:

Dias posted:

Skip Intro with a video on The Wire for his copaganda series:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOXQpkUhZyc&hd=1

Will the question "Is The Wire copaganda" finally be answered? Maybe.

ilmucche
Mar 16, 2016

#essereFerrari



avon meeting marlo in jail is so weird. avon is 100% still street gangster, and marlo looks fairly uninterested which i guess makes sense since he's only in it for himself.

Human Tornada
Mar 3, 2005

I been wantin to see a honkey dance.


ilmucche posted:

avon meeting marlo in jail is so weird. avon is 100% still street gangster, and marlo looks fairly uninterested which i guess makes sense since he's only in it for himself.

Avon is flexing after losing the crown and Marlo clocks it instantly and is just waiting for Avon to get to the point ($100K to Brianna), same way he does with everyone. He's impressed for a second because Avon figured out what he's up to, but he knows Avon wants something and doesn't care about him putting on his little show of power.

An interesting thing about Marlo is that he was all substance with no style, and that's probably why his name doesn't live on in legend the same way Omar's does and colorful figures like Avon and Prop Joe probably will too. Avon, for example, threw cookouts, participated in the basketball games, had personality, etc. Marlo was just ruthless, businesslike ambition to get to the top, which ironically probably softened the power of his name once he got there.

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

For that you get the head...

the tail...

the whole damned thing.

Sorry to raise this thread from the dead but the Down in the Hole podcast has some new poo poo up and I've been catching up with it.

They pointed out something I never noticed before.

After Marlo kills Prop Joe, he tells the co-op "I'm responsible" and that "the price of the brick going up". I totally mis-read that scene and thought Marlo straight up copped to murdering Joe. But really he deflects it onto Omar and says that Omar came after people close to him or something like that. Further (and I missed this too) Slim Charles knows this is false because he had already had a run in with Omar and Omar let him go. I never caught the look on his face when he shows that he knows Marlo is bullshitting, figuring "wait. If he's coming after Marlo through his people, why'd he let me go?" It's subtle but it's there.

Then he immediately nopes out when Marlo offers to promote him.

EDIT: Also holy poo poo I just noticed that one of the editors at the newspaper is Gale from Breaking Bad.

BiggerBoat fucked around with this message at 15:44 on Dec 9, 2020

empty baggie
Oct 22, 2003



He's also Wags from Billions.

Ainsley McTree
Feb 19, 2004




Yeah that guy's a character actor that shows up in a lot of stuff. I think I first remember him as Kristen Schaal's prisoner/husband in Flight of the Conchords

Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Dec 22, 2005

GET LOSE, YOU CAN'T COMPARE WITH MY POWERS


Ainsley McTree posted:

Yeah that guy's a character actor that shows up in a lot of stuff. I think I first remember him as Kristen Schaal's prisoner/husband in Flight of the Conchords
...lmao that he's the same guy. I saw him at a grocery store once. Dumbest celebrity sighting of all time. "Yeah he was uhh, the newspaper guy on the wire, the one they hated, but the big boss but the lower boss".

Human Tornada
Mar 3, 2005

I been wantin to see a honkey dance.


BiggerBoat posted:

Sorry to raise this thread from the dead but the Down in the Hole podcast has some new poo poo up and I've been catching up with it.

They pointed out something I never noticed before.

After Marlo kills Prop Joe, he tells the co-op "I'm responsible" and that "the price of the brick going up". I totally mis-read that scene and thought Marlo straight up copped to murdering Joe. But really he deflects it onto Omar and says that Omar came after people close to him or something like that. Further (and I missed this too) Slim Charles knows this is false because he had already had a run in with Omar and Omar let him go. I never caught the look on his face when he shows that he knows Marlo is bullshitting, figuring "wait. If he's coming after Marlo through his people, why'd he let me go?" It's subtle but it's there.

Then he immediately nopes out when Marlo offers to promote him.

EDIT: Also holy poo poo I just noticed that one of the editors at the newspaper is Gale from Breaking Bad.

They probably all knew Marlo was bullshitting.

"Motherfucker who's got the connect, he the one who did Joe."
"No doubt."

Also Marlo wasn't really offering to promote him. In a previous episode when Marlo suggest Slim Charles gets a promotion, he's feeling out who he could turn against Joe if they have higher ambitions. Slim doesn't, so he moves on to Cheese. After Joe's death he knows Slim will likely turn down the promotion again, so he "settles" on Cheese, but it was always going to be him.

Also the liar guy from the newspaper directed that Adam Sandler movie where he gets a magical pair of shoes or whatever.

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

For that you get the head...

the tail...

the whole damned thing.

Human Tornada posted:

They probably all knew Marlo was bullshitting.

"Motherfucker who's got the connect, he the one who did Joe."
"No doubt."


Yeah, I caught that exchange when they all entered the meeting (and they were right) but it seemed to me that a bunch of them bought the whole "It was Omar" bullshit too. Tough to say really. Looking at it again, you're right though. Seemed like most of them knew what was up but the podcast made me rewatch that scene in a new light. It's easy to read as Marlo manipulating them to go after "the dicksuck" and he even ups the stakes by immediately raising the bounty in a way that solidifies pinning the whole thing on Omar. To most of them it didn't much matter anyway since they were all hosed and it was obvious Marlo was large and in charge regardless.

And Marlo was smart to not only dangle but UP the reward on Omar.

I can see it being read either way tbh but I think Slim Charles at least knew better. Most of them though simply came off as "aint this some poo poo?" a lot like a corporate raider buying a small company and announcing layoffs and downsizing.

The game is the game.

BiggerBoat fucked around with this message at 23:40 on Dec 9, 2020

Van Dis
Jun 19, 2004


I listened to a couple episodes of Way Down in the Hole and I agree with the poster who said it is extremely low insight. I'm definitely not getting anything out of it that I didn't by just watching the show and paying attention. Reminds me of the many book podcasts that are just summaries of the story with "I liked the plot and the characters"-level analysis.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


Human Tornada posted:

Also the liar guy from the newspaper directed that Adam Sandler movie where he gets a magical pair of shoes or whatever.

Also wrote and directed a little movie called Spotlight!

Human Tornada
Mar 3, 2005

I been wantin to see a honkey dance.


BiggerBoat posted:

Yeah, I caught that exchange when they all entered the meeting (and they were right) but it seemed to me that a bunch of them bought the whole "It was Omar" bullshit too. Tough to say really. Looking at it again, you're right though. Seemed like most of them knew what was up but the podcast made me rewatch that scene in a new light. It's easy to read as Marlo manipulating them to go after "the dicksuck" and he even ups the stakes by immediately raising the bounty in a way that solidifies pinning the whole thing on Omar. To most of them it didn't much matter anyway since they were all hosed and it was obvious Marlo was large and in charge regardless.

And Marlo was smart to not only dangle but UP the reward on Omar.

I can see it being read either way tbh but I think Slim Charles at least knew better. Most of them though simply came off as "aint this some poo poo?" a lot like a corporate raider buying a small company and announcing layoffs and downsizing.

The game is the game.

In my opinion Marlo was just giving them a story, any story that they could all pretend to believe in order to get back to business as usual as soon as possible. They probably even clocked that Cheese was the one who gave up Joe when he happily falls in with the crew that murdered his uncle, and later when Slim Charles kills Cheese and says "that was for Joe" they all seem to know what he's talking about. None of these guys are stupid. Also LOL that in the first season Avon's original bounty on Omar was $2K and by the end it's $250K.

Jerusalem posted:

Also wrote and directed a little movie called Spotlight!

Never heard of it.

Eat This Glob
Jan 14, 2008

God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him. Who will wipe this blood off us? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we need to invent?

Lipstick Apathy

Van Dis posted:

I listened to a couple episodes of Way Down in the Hole and I agree with the poster who said it is extremely low insight. I'm definitely not getting anything out of it that I didn't by just watching the show and paying attention. Reminds me of the many book podcasts that are just summaries of the story with "I liked the plot and the characters"-level analysis.

Learning that john c reilly auditioned to play mcnulty was enough to justify my listening to the first season, but yeah, I'd be better off finally reading Jonathan abrams' book if I wanted actual insight. I own the fuckin' thing- i should get on that.

Im halfway through season 2 on my 4th or 5th rewatch. Such a good season, but im looking forward to S4 already and dreading S5

Barry Foster
Dec 24, 2007

Brush your teeth.


Eat This Glob posted:

Learning that john c reilly auditioned to play mcnulty

christmas boots
Oct 15, 2012

To these sing-alongs of siren songs
To oohs to ahhs to big applause
With all of my anger I scream and shout
America, I love you but you're freaking me out


Biscuit Hider


Just thinking about John C Reilly asking everyone what the gently caress he did

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

For that you get the head...

the tail...

the whole damned thing.

I could actually picture JCR filling several parts of the role pretty well. Just not all the "every chick wants to bang McNulty" parts.

Boogie Nights notwithstanding.

dividertabs
Oct 1, 2004



It doesn't make sense to me that Michael drops off Bug with a shoebox full of cash, then dumps Dukie in an alley.

Milo and POTUS
Sep 3, 2017

I will not shut up about the Mighty Morphin Power Rangers. I talk about them all the time and work them into every conversation I have. I built a shrine in my room for the yellow one who died because sadly no one noticed because she died around 9/11. Wanna see it?


What was with the deadwood bit

np19
Dec 25, 2016


It was there to demonstrate that the man he was sharing a room with was a hooplehead.

Mystery Steve
Nov 9, 2006


Fun Shoe

Just finished season 4, I'm on my third rewatch now and I still forget how jarring the scene is with Chris and bugs dad.
It's pretty obvious in what it says about Chris's past and why he'd allow himself to do a sloppy kill like that in the street. I think it's the only time you see a hint of fear in snoop too. Even though he's a vicious killer I couldn't help but feel sadness for him.

Eat This Glob
Jan 14, 2008

God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him. Who will wipe this blood off us? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we need to invent?

Lipstick Apathy


I guess it was a little more formal than that: Simon wanted him for ol gently caress-up Jimmy but Reilly's wife wouldn't move to Baltimore lmao.

https://www.vice.com/en/article/3k7...-the-wire-vgtrn

I really should read that abrams book

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

For that you get the head...

the tail...

the whole damned thing.

Man, I kind of wish David Simon would reboot this show or do a sequel.

https://twitter.com/EoinHiggins_/st...9292823552?s=20

https://twitter.com/jaywillis/statu...4229100544?s=20

https://twitter.com/JonathanCohn/st...4953435136?s=20

So much has changed but so much is the same.

christmas boots
Oct 15, 2012

To these sing-alongs of siren songs
To oohs to ahhs to big applause
With all of my anger I scream and shout
America, I love you but you're freaking me out


Biscuit Hider

Frankly, if anything, the Wire still romanticizes the police compared to reality.

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

For that you get the head...

the tail...

the whole damned thing.

christmas boots posted:

Frankly, if anything, the Wire still romanticizes the police compared to reality.

I don't really see it that way but I be misunderstanding what you mean by "romanticize". Compared to most Cop Shows, I thought it did a really great job creating sympathy and empathy for everyone caught up in the bullshit. I can't think of any cop characters that were shown to us as paragons of virtue above everyone else. But like I said that may not be what you meant.

I'd just like to see a show like this 20 years later dealing with the same situations but in the modern context that most of us view crime and cops is all I was saying and lord knows a lot has come to light since the show first aired.

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!


Thatís romanticizing yeah. The first season has most of the police being racist but it honestly doesnít come up very often. Honestly the Wire isnít terribly interested in beat cops and mostly focuses on higher ups with the street cops more or less doing what they can in a bad situation with like a token rear end in a top hat cop who usually isnít terribly important

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zenguitarman
Apr 6, 2009

Come on, lemme see ya shake your tail feather




The Wire walks a fine line with that, but the major crimes unit is undoubtedly cast as the good guys, even though going after kingpins only accounts for a fraction of all drug arrests. We only see glimpses here and there of people getting busted for possession and how that affects the community, which obviously wouldn't make for as good of television as the cat and mouse game between major crimes and avon, say. Like, I wish maybe they'd spent a little more time with Hamsterdam. Colvin was a great lense to view story through and I wish we got a little more than just the letters from the community bit at the end (although his talks at role call and with Carver we're good too).

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