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algebra testes
Mar 5, 2011




Lipstick Apathy

Also Gen Kill is great as well.

Even funnier when I found out the journalist is one of the un-named Jurnos in Big Red Son.

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Orange Devil
Sep 30, 2010

CUNT


My favorite Generation Kill fact is that critics found Fruity Rudy to be a completely unbelievable casting decision and characterization for a force recon marine.

Except whoops, the person playing that character is also the literal (ex) force recon marine the character is based on.

Alhazred
Feb 16, 2011






Orange Devil posted:

My favorite Generation Kill fact is that critics found Fruity Rudy to be a completely unbelievable casting decision and characterization for a force recon marine.

Except whoops, the person playing that character is also the literal (ex) force recon marine the character is based on.

As a general rule the characters in a David Simon show are often less outlandish than the real life characters they're based on.

algebra testes
Mar 5, 2011




Lipstick Apathy

In a show full of highlights, can we just pause again to remember in holy reverence, how loving funny the Herc/Mayor storyline is.


"Mr. Mayor, that's a good, strong dick you got there, and I see you know how to use it."

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?



algebra testes posted:

In a show full of highlights, can we just pause again to remember in holy reverence, how loving funny the Herc/Mayor storyline is.


"Mr. Mayor, that's a good, strong dick you got there, and I see you know how to use it."

Herc knocks on door.
Royce: Come in.
Herc: Are you in there?
Royce: Come in.
Herc: Okay.
Herc hesitates
Herc: Okay I'm coming in now.
Herc slowly opens the door, waits a beat, then steps inside.

He is a very subtle man.

happyhippy
Feb 21, 2005

Playing games, watching movies, owning goons. 'sup


Pillbug

Watching Homocide: Life on the Streets, also based in Baltimore.
Its definitely not The Wire, but they have a printer-lie-detector scene too in it, so wonder if this is a cop story or just a homage.

happyhippy fucked around with this message at 22:19 on Jul 20, 2021

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?



From memory Simon writes about it as an actual thing detectives did in Homicide: A Year on the Killing Streets?

Syrian Lannister
Aug 25, 2007

Oh, did I kill him too?
I've been a very busy little man.




Sugartime Jones

Jerusalem posted:

From memory Simon writes about it as an actual thing detectives did in Homicide: A Year on the Killing Streets?

It is in the book.

zenguitarman
Apr 6, 2009

Come on, lemme see ya shake your tail feather




happyhippy posted:

Watching Homocide: Life on the Streets, also based in Baltimore.

These spin-offs are getting out of control

ShaneMacGowansTeeth
May 22, 2007



I think this is it... I think this is how it ends


Syrian Lannister posted:

It is in the book.

iirc, the anecdote from the book was Baltimore PD in the book didn't do it, but (I think) the Detroit Homicide department got caught using it once

Syrian Lannister
Aug 25, 2007

Oh, did I kill him too?
I've been a very busy little man.




Sugartime Jones

Department in Pennsylvania too, if snopes is to be believed

werdnam
Feb 16, 2011
The scientist does not study nature because it is useful to do so. He studies it because he takes pleasure in it, and he takes pleasure in it because it is beautiful. If nature were not beautiful it would not be worth knowing, and life would not be worth living. -- Henri Poincare


Just got to season 5 on my first watch. After episode 2 , all I can say is, what the gently caress, Jimmy?

I really enjoyed McNulty's arc up to this season and was happy to see him settle down with Beadie. I even thought he'd learned something and be able to keep his poo poo together in major crimes. No, now he's loving it all up again. I don't think I've ever been so angry at a TV character.

Orange Devil
Sep 30, 2010

CUNT


The gently caress did I do?

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?



werdnam posted:

I don't think I've ever been so angry at a TV character.

He has the same effect on his bosses! And his co-workers! And his ex-wife! And his girlfriend!

Which is made all the more frustrating by the fact he's bewilderingly likeable in spite of that :allears:

Barry Foster
Dec 24, 2007

Brush your teeth.


werdnam posted:

Just got to season 5 on my first watch. After episode 2 , all I can say is, what the gently caress, Jimmy?

I really enjoyed McNulty's arc up to this season and was happy to see him settle down with Beadie. I even thought he'd learned something and be able to keep his poo poo together in major crimes. No, now he's loving it all up again. I don't think I've ever been so angry at a TV character.

People like that rarely change, and when they refuse to even recognise they're loving up and try and fix their behaviour 'rarely' turns to 'never'. It's sad but true, and I was impressed by The Wire getting it right

Orange Devil
Sep 30, 2010

CUNT


Serious question though, how does one become a person like that in the first place?

DasNeonLicht
Dec 25, 2005

"...and the light is on and burning brightly for the masses."

Fallen Rib

werdnam posted:

Just got to season 5 on my first watch. After episode 2 , all I can say is, what the gently caress, Jimmy?

The season five serial killer arc was the one point of the show that stretched credulity a little bit, I don't know — maybe something like that could really happen.

Orange Devil posted:

Serious question though, how does one become a person like that in the first place?

I think that description of the "suspect" from the profiler almost breaks the fourth wall it's so meta.

Ainsley McTree
Feb 19, 2004




Jimmy's got a bright future with the CIA if the whole detective thing doesn't pan out

Barry Foster
Dec 24, 2007

Brush your teeth.


Orange Devil posted:

Serious question though, how does one become a person like that in the first place?

Childhood trauma usually

werdnam
Feb 16, 2011
The scientist does not study nature because it is useful to do so. He studies it because he takes pleasure in it, and he takes pleasure in it because it is beautiful. If nature were not beautiful it would not be worth knowing, and life would not be worth living. -- Henri Poincare


I do like how Bunk and a few other people try to gently nudge Jimmy to realize that he's treating Beadie the same way he treated his ex until he shuts them down. It's a nice touch to have his friends try to help him but also know that nagging him won't make a difference.

roomtone
Jul 1, 2021

The rising star of GBS!


I've never minded the fake serial killer thing at all. It's entertaining and is within the theme of all the rest of the stuff they do, some of which like Hamsterdam is at least as out-there. I have an easier time imagining a few disgruntled police would mislead the department to get focus on cases they prefer and have overtime paid out than that a whole section of a city could operate without drug laws for more than a day before getting shut down.

I think people roll their eyes about it because serial killers are such a common plot device on crime shows, but the entire serial killer angle is bullshit and that's the point. It's not a serial killer storyline, it's still a story about broken policing like the rest of the show is basically about.

On a character level, Jimmy would do this. He's angry and self-destructive. Lester, well maybe. He presents himself as The Wise Man, but even within the show that's an affectation people give him poo poo for sometimes. He's just as dissatisfied with how things are done as Jimmy and has been exiled for rebelling before, so why not?

I think it all works.

roomtone fucked around with this message at 15:35 on Aug 5, 2021

Eason the Fifth
Apr 9, 2020


I think it works in the context of the show for all the reasons you mentioned, but I also think it doesn't work because of what you mentioned with serial killers and television. The shows airing then like The Shield or Dexter had entirely different tones that used (or would have used) a cop-faking-a-serial-killer plot to drive stories, so to see the Wire try something similar caused a lot of whiplash, despite previously unrealistic sequences like Hamsterdam or the Omar/Muzone Team-up in season 3. Your point about the serial killer story actually being another broken police story was really astute, and David Simon was obviously aware of the serial killer thing with the wink to Dexter in season 5 so, I mean, he knew what he was doing -- but that doesn't mean it necessarily worked, especially after seasons like 2 and 4 that might as well have been creative non-fiction or documentary.

Eason the Fifth fucked around with this message at 18:22 on Aug 5, 2021

HootTheOwl
May 13, 2012

Hootin and shootin


werdnam posted:

Just got to season 5 on my first watch. After episode 2 , all I can say is, what the gently caress, Jimmy?

I really enjoyed McNulty's arc up to this season and was happy to see him settle down with Beadie. I even thought he'd learned something and be able to keep his poo poo together in major crimes. No, now he's loving it all up again. I don't think I've ever been so angry at a TV character.

He's an addict. He can't stop.

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!


I mean the problem is the show has been hammering broken policing for so long and I feel like that went on a silly direction for a pretty mediocre payoff.

But thatís season 5 for ya

pokeyman
Nov 26, 2006

That elephant ate my entire platoon.



I think the faux serial killer plot mightíve gone down better if the parallel newspaper plot felt less like David Simon Owns His Old Bosses And Colleagues. When both big plots are at like 85% it sticks out more than if one was 100%.

That said, I always enjoy season 5 more than I think I will on a rewatch, so maybe itís fine?

UmOk
Aug 3, 2003


Season 5 was good. I really appreciate how the McNutty and newsroom stories are both paralleled and intertwined. The "skip the newsroom scenes" crowd are insane.

Hasselblad
Dec 13, 2017
NRA shill who thinks homeless people would love to live in migrant border camps. Help me realize I am a bigoted piece of shit.


Nah, s5 was abysmal.

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!


They also didnít really intertwine. There was crossover sure but the point of neither arc really mattered to the other

Bird in a Blender
Nov 17, 2005

It's amazing what they can do with computers these days.



Well both were about how people take shortcuts, or manipulate the system to get the results they want, and the higher ups will either ignore the problem, or actively sweep it under the rug to avoid any embarrassment.

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!


I thought the point of the serial killers thing is people only care about flashy poo poo nutty has been taking short cuts for his whole career.

Like I think his introduction with the judge is him taking a shortcut

Kosmo Gallion
Sep 12, 2013


That kind of explains why Rawls and others don't just can his rear end. McNulty, despite being an impossible person, is well liked by those he started at the bottom with that went on to become powerful people (Bunny Colvin, The Judge). Is it outright stated that he and the judge are pals from when he was a prosecutor or did I just make that up?

christmas boots
Oct 15, 2012

To these sing-alongs of siren songs
To oohs to ahhs to big applause
With all of my anger I scream and shout
America, I love you but you're freaking me out


Biscuit Hider

IIRC at one point McNulty tells him that he "shouldn't talk dirty now that [he's] a judge" which to me implies that his position is fairly recent, and that McNulty knew him before but I don't think anything is specifically states

Boywhiz88
Sep 11, 2005

floating 26" off da ground. BURR!


I softened on 5 this go around because I've taken Gus to be David's portrayal of himself through a Scott Templeton lens.

The too perfect quotes being an example. Like, there's something to the season if you consider the bad writing to be kind of meta.

Randallteal
May 7, 2006

Good night, sweet prince, And flights of angels sing thee to thy rest

The serial killer angle doesn't do anything for me but I like the pulitzer chasing storyline and Gus's arc of exposing Templeton and getting demoted for it, but still working at the paper in the end. I don't know if it would have made it work all the way, but it would have helped if they had seeded the paper storyline in seasons 3 and 4 by bringing in some of the characters to cover the Hamsterdam / Schools / Election stories. I think it would be fun and help with buy-in if we saw Scott, Alma, or Gus butting heads with Carcetti or the police brass before being brought fully into their world.

Eason the Fifth
Apr 9, 2020


Yeah -- I think the biggest fault with season 5 is that it's a short season. The extra few episodes could've given the plot the time it really needed to add more layers to the characters and weight to the story. 5 has some great long-form payoffs, like with Bubbles, but everything new to the season felt like it was there to settle a grudge.

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!


I mean fundamentally Gus is the same character as McNulty but without his flaws so itís not hard to see why heís annoying.

Like imagine if he was just hero cop protecting the streets for the children

zenguitarman
Apr 6, 2009

Come on, lemme see ya shake your tail feather




The newspaper crew might not be as well written, but they're well acted, which goes a long way for me. Templeton is so petulant when he gets called out on his poo poo, it's great. I also really like the scene where Jimmy meets with the newspaper staff about the call and finds out Templeton is full of poo poo.

And of course as soon as I YouTube The Wire all sorts of recommended videos start popping up. I think I remember the context, but I don't remember this scene AT ALL.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIbu1lHqrEo

Alhazred
Feb 16, 2011






werdnam posted:

I do like how Bunk and a few other people try to gently nudge Jimmy to realize that he's treating Beadie the same way he treated his ex until he shuts them down. It's a nice touch to have his friends try to help him but also know that nagging him won't make a difference.

Those friends are also doing their best to enable his worst tendencies. He was happy and functional as a beat cop until they dragged him into a murder case.

Randallteal
May 7, 2006

Good night, sweet prince, And flights of angels sing thee to thy rest

CharlestheHammer posted:

I mean fundamentally Gus is the same character as McNulty but without his flaws so itís not hard to see why heís annoying.

Like imagine if he was just hero cop protecting the streets for the children

I don't think Gus and Mcnulty and that similar. Gus is willing to play management's game to a point, is in a leadership / mentor role, and generally doesn't seem to be a workaholic. If anything he's more like Daniels season 1 and Alma is playing Mcnulty.

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CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!


Randallteal posted:

I don't think Gus and Mcnulty and that similar. Gus is willing to play management's game to a point, is in a leadership / mentor role, and generally doesn't seem to be a workaholic. If anything he's more like Daniels season 1 and Alma is playing Mcnulty.

Yes thatís the flaws I was speaking if. Those things gently caress McNulty over more than helping his cause

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