Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
christmas boots
Oct 15, 2012

To these sing-alongs of siren songs
To oohs to ahhs to big applause
With all of my anger I scream and shout
America, I love you but you're freaking me out


Biscuit Hider

Vichan posted:

Y-y-y-you think I'm done!

What are you reading there, Senator?

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?



Clay walking into his trial a dead man and walking out the greatest hero in American history is still one of the most amazing things I've seen on television.

"What the gently caress was that?"
"I don't know, but they don't teach it in Law School."


Edit: Spoiled since people mentioned watching the show for the first time, I'd hate to ruin it!

Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 09:58 on Sep 15, 2021

Boywhiz88
Sep 11, 2005

floating 26" off da ground. BURR!


BiggerBoat posted:

That's too hosed about Michael K Williams. I knew he had some substance use issues at one time or another but I never knew heroin was part of it. Always thought it was coke and alcohol. God drat. He was really good in the stuff I saw him in. I was really impressed with his range, especially since he was an actor who could very easily have been typecast or one note performances.

The toxicology hasnít come out, but a lot of people are speculating cocaine tainted w fent.

HootTheOwl
May 13, 2012

Hootin and shootin


Bird in a Blender posted:

This is what happens when you donít follow the grooming standard!

No, I think following the grooming standard was exactly the problem.

algebra testes
Mar 5, 2011




Lipstick Apathy

Also, me and my friends will occasionally yell "THAT HEM-LET WASN'T YAWWWWS TO LOOOOOWWSEEEE!!"

Ainsley McTree
Feb 19, 2004




deoju posted:

Yeah, can't help but think that casting was a meta-commentary on the militarization of the police. Collicheo definitely saw the western as occupied territory, and he definitely gave off an ex military vibe. Look at his haircut. Police departments giving preferential hiring to ex military was policy for a long time, and contributed to the mess we are in.

The first episode of GK also includes the embedded journalist being a colossal gently caress up. I kinda see that as a mea culpa for Simon being too preachy in s5.

Then there's that line in season....3? 4? where Carcetti's riding along with some cops and they're talking about how they wish they could just drop white phosphorus and call it a day. i don't know if it is or not, but that line had the feel of something that simon heard from his irl experience as a cop reporter

Speaking of the reporter in GK, I really love how the thing that finally wins him over with the troops is when they learn he used to write for hustler. just :discourse:

Aces High
Mar 26, 2010

Nah! A little chocolate will do






as someone who isn't American is there a tl;dr explanation for why the Marines are even doing what they do in GK? Actually, I'm sure there's no short way to answer that since I'm sure it has a long history but I have never quite understood why the Marine Corps is effectively a 4th branch as opposed to the land- fighting branch of the Navy like it is in basically every other country that has a marine force of some kind

christmas boots
Oct 15, 2012

To these sing-alongs of siren songs
To oohs to ahhs to big applause
With all of my anger I scream and shout
America, I love you but you're freaking me out


Biscuit Hider

Goes back to the Continental Marines back during the Revolution, I think.

HootTheOwl
May 13, 2012

Hootin and shootin


Aces High posted:

as someone who isn't American is there a tl;dr explanation for why the Marines are even doing what they do in GK? Actually, I'm sure there's no short way to answer that since I'm sure it has a long history but I have never quite understood why the Marine Corps is effectively a 4th branch as opposed to the land- fighting branch of the Navy like it is in basically every other country that has a marine force of some kind

So in the 18th century, where our Army, Navy, and Marines come from a boat had a contingent of people on board that would board enemy ships and fight the opposing forces.
When Naval warfare shifted to be less about capturing boats the Marines shifted into an invasion force. Marines secure a place for the Army to march from.
In GK that's sorta what they're doing. They're scouting ahead and securing places so the army can roll though and occupy.

In reality, all branches are fighting each other trying to justify their existence. So everyone is doing basically the same thing and acting interchangeably.

StashAugustine
Mar 24, 2013

Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.









Yeah part of it is also the Marines built up a lot of political power and prestige in the island campaigns of the Pacific War and they've kinda been coasting on that ever since

bornbytheriver
Apr 23, 2010


Friends, I am slowly making my way through season 3. Yesterday, I watched Episode 7 called Back Burners, and I couldn't help but notice for the first time that this was probably an episode that featured female characters' stories more than any other preceding episode. This may have been discussed on here before, so apologies if I am simply rehashing things. Whether by accident or design this episode delivers multiple stories of women attempting to stand up to men, be independent or act as their equals. In Teresa D'Agostino and Snoop's cases being straight up bad rear end. I loved it.

Tony Phillips
Feb 9, 2006


The Ravens came out of the their tunnel for last night's home opener to the Omar whistle:

https://twitter.com/AoDespair/status/1439771091514372097

https://twitter.com/Ravens/status/1439746271863087113

ruddiger
Jun 3, 2004



drat joe

V-Men
Aug 15, 2001

Don't it make your dick bust concrete to be in the same room with two noble, selfless public servants.

deoju posted:

The first episode of GK also includes the embedded journalist being a colossal gently caress up. I kinda see that as a mea culpa for Simon being too preachy in s5.

I just assumed that Rolling Stone actually did all that stuff and wasn't afraid to embarass himself in the book.

My favorite casting note in GK is the actor who played Alpha's gunny sgt was also also a dick marine in Space Above and Beyond.

BiggerBoat posted:

One of the main things throwing me off are all the acronyms since I'm not real up on military jargon but that's on me and I appreciate the show not dumbing that down. I wonder what CHUDS think of this. I bet they view it much differently than my take away so far.

They prefer Band of Brothers more b/c the Americans in that are unambiguously the Good guys.

V-Men fucked around with this message at 11:20 on Sep 21, 2021

Bird in a Blender
Nov 17, 2005

It's amazing what they can do with computers these days.



V-Men posted:

I just assumed that Rolling Stone actually did all that stuff and wasn't afraid to embarass himself in the book.

Serpentine!

Alhazred
Feb 16, 2011






V-Men posted:



They prefer Band of Brothers more b/c the Americans in that are unambiguously the Good guys.

Even BoB has some nuances. Spiers for example guns down unarmed soldiers and the show shows what a shitshow the period right after the war was ( one of the characters says that he keeps losing men even though it's peace).

V-Men
Aug 15, 2001

Don't it make your dick bust concrete to be in the same room with two noble, selfless public servants.

Alhazred posted:

Even BoB has some nuances. Spiers for example guns down unarmed soldiers and the show shows what a shitshow the period right after the war was ( one of the characters says that he keeps losing men even though it's peace).

Yeah but his portrayal still felt like "he's a hard man making hard decisions and he gets results", which is a stark contrast to Hitman's marines sexually harassing a woman or that one who says that he hates "hajis".

Orange Devil
Sep 30, 2010

CUNT


BoB is intentionally ambiguous about whether Spiers actually did that or whether it was just a story everyone told each other.

Ainsley McTree
Feb 19, 2004




Orange Devil posted:

BoB is intentionally ambiguous about whether Spiers actually did that or whether it was just a story everyone told each other.

It definitely morphs into a myth, but I feel like when it first happens, we see it from the POV of one of the characters contemporaneously, and he's pretty shook up about it.

Either way though, if I'm remembering the show right, his arc by the end is "ah he's a war hero, who cares"

exmachina
Mar 12, 2006

Look Closer


Yeah he shoots the SS soldiers on D-day, including the American, though tbf what were they going to do with prisoners as parachute infantry on D-day?

exmachina
Mar 12, 2006

Look Closer


Quote is not edit

feedmegin
Jul 30, 2008




exmachina posted:

Yeah he shoots the SS soldiers on D-day, including the American, though tbf what were they going to do with prisoners as parachute infantry on D-day?

Shooting SS prisoners (specifically) or refusing their surrender wasn't exactly uncommon in WW2 in any case iirc

Vichan
Oct 1, 2014

I'LL PUNISH YOU ACCORDING TO YOUR CRIME

exmachina posted:

Yeah he shoots the SS soldiers on D-day, including the American, though tbf what were they going to do with prisoners as parachute infantry on D-day?

IIRC no prisoners were allowed for the first 72 hours after dropping off.

zenguitarman
Apr 6, 2009

Come on, lemme see ya shake your tail feather




In BoB, Liebgott also set out on his own to confront the (alleged) concentration camp officer. It's never really confirmed if he was an actual officer there.

Ginette Reno
Nov 18, 2006

Hey Sid Do you believe in UFOs, astral projections, mental telepathy, ESP, clairvoyance, spirit photography, telekinetic movement, full trance mediums, the Loch Ness monster, and the theory of Atlantis?

Fun Shoe

Jerusalem posted:

Clay walking into his trial a dead man and walking out the greatest hero in American history is still one of the most amazing things I've seen on television.

"What the gently caress was that?"
"I don't know, but they don't teach it in Law School."


Edit: Spoiled since people mentioned watching the show for the first time, I'd hate to ruin it!

When he walks out of court to face the reporters and looks terrified for a second and then looks down and turns on the charm/smile it's so good. I laugh every time I see that scene.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RGDRzrxdeE#t=141s

V-Men
Aug 15, 2001

Don't it make your dick bust concrete to be in the same room with two noble, selfless public servants.

There's only person in the series with whom it irks me that the person never gets any comeuppance: the Greek's inside man in the FBI

Suxpool
Nov 20, 2002
I want something good to die for...to make it beautiful to live

Orange Devil posted:

BoB is intentionally ambiguous about whether Spiers actually did that or whether it was just a story everyone told each other.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-V6OAtgr6c

tldw: Winters says Spiers absolutely did it, and signed a release letter to Simon & Schuster attesting to it

Orange Devil
Sep 30, 2010

CUNT


exmachina posted:

Yeah he shoots the SS soldiers on D-day, including the American, though tbf what were they going to do with prisoners as parachute infantry on D-day?

You see the prisoners, you see Speirs (armed with a Thompson) handing out cigarettes to them, then the PoV character walks away, after not that many steps he hears someone empty a Thompson mag. The PoV character chooses not to go back and see for himself, but does look real shaken up about it.


Later when Lipton directly asks Speirs about it he tells him some evasive story about what if you go back 2000 years wouldn't you hear Roman legionaires tell the same stories and Lipton goes "maybe that's because it is not denied" and Speirs goes "yeah well maybe that's because there's some value in everyone thinking you are the hardest sonofabitch in the whole theatre of operations".

And that's what BoB shows and tells the viewer.

Aces High
Mar 26, 2010

Nah! A little chocolate will do






reminds me of the opening scene of Saving Private Ryan, where we see two (Polish) Nazi soldiers surrendering on D-Day and the American soldiers open up on them and then joke about what they were saying. Although I'm not sure what the intention was with that scene, was showing a war crime supposed to be seen as funny?

Eason the Fifth
Apr 9, 2020


No, it wasn't supposed to be funny. There's nothing funny about the scene, with the cruel way they laugh and the flat look Miller gives them directly after. It's Spielberg doing the same thing he did in Band of Brothers with Spiers killing the POWs or taking the silver from the German houses -- showing that hey, actually, our guys could be vile shitheads, too. But neither SPR or BoB is a non-fiction exposť/indictment of a war the way Generation Kill is, so Spielberg didn't focus on it.

To be a little more specific, SPR was a screenplay by Robert Rodat, who also did The Patriot, so you can imagine the guy isn't exactly nuanced in his takes. I don't know if the Polish soldier execution was from his script or if it was a Spielberg addition, but like Stephen Ambrose and Band of Brothers, the authors, the source material, or the people involved in adapting it weren't especially focused on American war crimes.

Eason the Fifth fucked around with this message at 14:36 on Sep 22, 2021

Ginette Reno
Nov 18, 2006

Hey Sid Do you believe in UFOs, astral projections, mental telepathy, ESP, clairvoyance, spirit photography, telekinetic movement, full trance mediums, the Loch Ness monster, and the theory of Atlantis?

Fun Shoe

V-Men posted:

There's only person in the series with whom it irks me that the person never gets any comeuppance: the Greek's inside man in the FBI

I was never quite sure if that guy realized the damage he was causing with his tips or if he thought he was just throwing the Greek the occasional bone and thought nothing more of it. Like did he know that sending The Greek intel on Frank directly caused Frank's death? Or did he just think he was tipping him off about a potential investigation and thought nothing more of it? Or maybe he did realize but just thought the ends justified the means since The Greek fed him just enough useful info to bring in the occasional drug or terrorism case? I wanted to know so much more about that relationship.

Aces High
Mar 26, 2010

Nah! A little chocolate will do






Eason the Fifth posted:

No, it wasn't supposed to be funny. There's nothing funny about the scene, with the cruel way they laugh and the flat look Miller gives them directly after. It's Spielberg doing the same thing he did in Band of Brothers with Spiers killing the POWs or taking the silver from the German houses -- showing that hey, actually, our guys could be vile shitheads, too. But neither SPR or BoB is a non-fiction exposé/indictment of a war the way Generation Kill is, so Spielberg didn't focus on it.

Fair enough, I only mention it being played for laughs because the handful of times I've watched SPR with an audience, a not insignificant number of people laughed or chuckled at the disparaging remarks the one soldier makes. Suppose that says more about them than what the authorial intent is

Eason the Fifth
Apr 9, 2020


Aces High posted:

Suppose that says more about them than what the authorial intent is

:hmmyes: I saw SPR in theaters five or six times and noticed the same audience reaction. For a lot of people the laughter was just a shock response because they don't know what else to do (especially after such a brutal combat sequence) but it also seemed like more than a couple people in the audience laughed like it was meant to be funny. Back in the late 90s young naive me would've flagged that as misunderstanding the scene, but well, the last 20 years have sorta highlighted American bloodlust so :shrug:

Anti-Hero
Feb 26, 2004


Aces High posted:

reminds me of the opening scene of Saving Private Ryan, where we see two (Polish) Nazi soldiers surrendering on D-Day and the American soldiers open up on them and then joke about what they were saying. Although I'm not sure what the intention was with that scene, was showing a war crime supposed to be seen as funny?

Itís actually more tragic and subtle than that. The two soldiers were Czechs, and I feel were deliberately not subtitled to elicit that same reaction from the audience, mistaking them for Germans. I read somewhere that they something to the effect of ďdonít shoot! We are not Germans! We are Czech and not here by choice!Ē

The Atlantic Wall in Normandy was manned by a lot of conscripts and press-ganged POWs from the Eastern Front. It was really sad.

Kazzah
Jul 15, 2011

Formerly known as
Krazyface


Hair Elf

There's a similar scene in The Longest Day, where a GI shoots a German soldier and then asks what "bitte" means. In that scene, though, it's depicted as a genuine misunderstanding, and the American is sincere in his question. The scene in SPR feels like a deliberate response to that.

goodog
Nov 3, 2007



Aces High posted:

as someone who isn't American is there a tl;dr explanation for why the Marines are even doing what they do in GK? Actually, I'm sure there's no short way to answer that since I'm sure it has a long history but I have never quite understood why the Marine Corps is effectively a 4th branch as opposed to the land- fighting branch of the Navy like it is in basically every other country that has a marine force of some kind

Being superfluous is kind of the selling point. A Marine task force is meant to be a self-contained army that can operate for weeks without logistical assistance. This is why in GK they're constantly complaining about running out of supplies.

1st Recon was chosen as the vanguard because of their leader General Mattis, a name you might remember from the Trump administration. The Force Recon units in GK are meant to be elite scouts and infiltrators. Scuba diving, covert beach landings, jumping out of airplanes etc.

Instead they were put in unarmored humvees and were told to drive through towns setting off ambushes. They were only given a month to learn how to drive them. Cpl Person didn't even have the operator's license when he was made lead driver of the convoy.

Aces High
Mar 26, 2010

Nah! A little chocolate will do






wait, what? Holy poo poo I did not pick that up from the show at all, I figured the use of humvees was just some weird 21st century thing. Actually, saying that I can see that being the reason for it from the top of the chain but 1 month prep and they were just running around without essential stuff like batteries too?

I understood when one of the soldiers talked about how things like crappy rations are how Marines keep their aggression but there's that and then there's asking your soldiers to drive into hostile territory without intel and ill-equipped to engage the op-for. Knowing that now, it definitely speaks to how well-trained they were that no one died

V-Men
Aug 15, 2001

Don't it make your dick bust concrete to be in the same room with two noble, selfless public servants.

You go to war with the army that you have said a certain secretary of defense

Grumpwagon
May 5, 2007
I am a giant assfuck who needs to harden the fuck up.



Generation Kill, the book, is excellent and speaks a lot deeper about the situation they were put in.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

deoju
Jul 11, 2004

All the pieces matter.


Nap Ghost

Snoop and Ed Burns are doing a show about her life.
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/wire-alums-felicia-pearson-ed-203024139.html

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply