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ulvir posted:ziggy was a dipshit, and he got in over his head purely by complete hubris, but gently caress it if I don't get incredibly angry at how much everyone he worked with just outright bullied him. we're lucky it was an actual bad guy he murdered when he finally snapped Yeah that kid whose name you forgot was a real kingpin
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Jan 12, 2025 22:22
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I thought the kid lived
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Jan 12, 2025 22:44
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Yeah, kid lives. Nick at one point Nick says the Greek could pressure him into lying about what happened to get Ziggy off, but he had already confessed. Double G died. Not that changes the fact Ziggy gut shot an innocent dude.
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Jan 12, 2025 22:57
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deoju posted:Yeah, kid lives. Nick at one point Nick says the Greek could pressure him into lying about what happened to get Ziggy off, but he had already confessed. Double G died. Yeah not trying to give him a pass for it, just couldn’t remember how many people he killed. Also gut shots are apparently worse than death for a while
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Jan 12, 2025 23:06
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ulvir posted:ziggy was a dipshit, and he got in over his head purely by complete hubris, but gently caress it if I don't get incredibly angry at how much everyone he worked with just outright bullied him. we're lucky it was an actual bad guy he murdered when he finally snapped Definitely had some times in my life (far removed thank god) where I was an easy target for jokes and I really relate to Ziggy just leaning into it and bringing a duck to get drunk to the bar. Like gently caress it, all I can do is be a jester. Very real instinct.
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Jan 13, 2025 05:14
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HootTheOwl posted:Yeah that kid whose name you forgot was a real kingpin maybe my memory is all scrambled, but I could swear he shot one of the greek’s smugglers
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Jan 13, 2025 07:03
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ulvir posted:maybe my memory is all scrambled, but I could swear he shot one of the greek’s smugglers The Zig got Double G and wounded the clerk.
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Jan 13, 2025 08:23
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Syrian Lannister posted:The Zig got Double G and wounded the clerk. Yeah double G was dirty as hell and he died but afaik the kid wasn’t shown to be involved in anything, he just got in the way.
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Jan 13, 2025 11:28
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General Battuta posted:God I hate the Greek. I hate his little mouth and I hate the mincing little way he talks. I hate how he sits in a gross little diner with gross burnt coffee. I wish he would get squished between two shipping containers! I clicked on this thread to post "thinking about how much I hate the Greek" and the last time I'd read the thread was this post nearly a year ago. I fuckin hate that guy man.
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Jan 13, 2025 17:52
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people care very much about such things
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Jan 13, 2025 18:19
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I love when Spiros mentions to the Greek he misses Frank after slicing his throat and throwing him into drink. Unflinching evil
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Jan 13, 2025 18:39
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General Battuta posted:I clicked on this thread to post "thinking about how much I hate the Greek" and the last time I'd read the thread was this post nearly a year ago. I fuckin hate that guy man. He's not even Greek!
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Jan 13, 2025 21:07
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Just caught D'Angelo Barksdale in the opening of Gangs of New York with Leo
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Jan 15, 2025 14:09
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Criminal Minded posted:Just caught D'Angelo Barksdale in the opening of Gangs of New York with Leo The gang is the gang
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Jan 15, 2025 22:25
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Rewatching season 3 and you know, I think Stringer probably would have made out ok in the long term with his real estate empire if he had lived. Krawczyk and Davis were taking him for a ride but I think he would have dumped them before his cash ran out. His biggest mistakes were all still on the street side: turning Omar onto Mouzone, showing weakness in front of Marlo, burning Avon. Also Freamon gets all the side eyes for picking up Shardene while recruiting her to be an informant, but Mcnulty asking Prez to look up Theresa Dagostino's address and credit card info from her hotel reservation after their one night stand so he can run into her again has to be the creepiest move in the entire show. That's some legit cop stalker psycho poo poo, Mcnulty.
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Jan 17, 2025 20:49
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In a perfect world (which they sure as hell weren't living in), Stringer would have got taken for a ride, been furious, but learned a lesson and swallowed his pride when he still had to work with these guys but was better tuned to their bullshit to avoid being exploited (as much). But as mentioned it isn't a perfect world, and his reaction to getting played was fury and a completely wild overreaction. Avon just added to his humiliation by (rightly!) telling him he couldn't have Clay Davis killed, and in his final scene you see he is still bitter but he is still working with Krawczyk and just getting out the last vestiges of his rage by making demands of him that they both knew weren't going to mean poo poo. Clay might have said that he'd have been able to bleed Stringer dry when he talks to Freamon later, but I think if Stringer was alive and had managed to navigate the Avon/Marlo mess it would have been more likely that a more wary Stringer would have been ushered through the landmines by Levy (taking his own significant cut of course). He would have hated it and resented it, but he would have done it, and he'd eventually be another upper/mid-size developer largely accepted into the club, hell they'd probably joke with him (and he'd still resent it) about the time they took him like a rube.
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Jan 17, 2025 21:58
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I was under the impression he was pretty close to ordering a hit on Clay Davis in that final wiretap. "Oh, that other thing: the two hitters you asked after, they're good with it." Clay is probably one of the luckiest motherfuckers on the show.
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Jan 17, 2025 23:15
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Yeah that's fair, I forgot this ended with him contemplating murdering Davis, lol.  I do wonder what separates him from criminals who are able to successfully become "the bank" as Mcnulty and Freamon describe it, but maybe his ambition was too big to make it work like that. Ultimately I feel like a guy with a community college education should be smart enough to handle making money through building and flipping condos, but that still doesn't mean he can't get taken advantage of by experienced con artists.
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Jan 17, 2025 23:50
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Randallteal posted:Yeah that's fair, I forgot this ended with him contemplating murdering Davis, lol. I feel like it was never possible as long as Avon had a say. The Barksdale organization only worked when Stringer and Avon were on the same page. Things started visibly going downhill once they started disagreeing on how the business was ran, and you can see the early signs of it in season 1. Avon was always stubborn until reality was too close to ignore. You see this when he changes his mind about how to handle Omar after getting shot, and when he relents that they no longer can compete with the East side product wise and changes his mind about the co-op. They were both stubborn about the directions they wanted to pull the organization towards, and that kept up until the thread snapped. Would Stringer have been successful without Avon, or vice-versa? I'm not too sure.
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Jan 18, 2025 00:02
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They were two sides to the same coin. Stringer was the more passive 'business' side of the operation and Avon was the guy willing to do anything to hold onto territory and influence on the streets. Stringer worked on the bigger picture stuff and Avon was on the smaller, literal street level stuff
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Jan 18, 2025 00:33
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Troll Bridgington posted:I was under the impression he was pretty close to ordering a hit on Clay Davis in that final wiretap. "Oh, that other thing: the two hitters you asked after, they're good with it." Oh you're right, I had legit forgotten he'd apparently tried to do a runaround Avon and find people willing to take a shot at Clay. Which would have been a disaster and probably ended with him in prison right next to Avon. Avon of course would have been all,"I told you so" for the one day of the two Avon had to serve.
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Jan 18, 2025 00:35
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Jerusalem posted:Oh you're right, I had legit forgotten he'd apparently tried to do a runaround Avon and find people willing to take a shot at Clay. Which would have been a disaster and probably ended with him in prison right next to Avon. Avon of course would have been all,"I told you so" for the one day of the two Avon had to serve. I mean he could barely keep the Barksdale organization afloat while Avon was in jail.
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Jan 18, 2025 00:36
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Jerusalem posted:Oh you're right, I had legit forgotten he'd apparently tried to do a runaround Avon and find people willing to take a shot at Clay. Which would have been a disaster and probably ended with him in prison right next to Avon. Avon of course would have been all,"I told you so" for the one day of the two Avon had to serve. I wonder if they were Day of the Jackal types? We'll never know!
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Jan 18, 2025 00:37
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Randallteal posted:I do wonder what separates him from criminals who are able to successfully become "the bank" as Mcnulty and Freamon describe it, but maybe his ambition was too big to make it work like that. Ultimately I feel like a guy with a community college education should be smart enough to handle making money through building and flipping condos, but that still doesn't mean he can't get taken advantage of by experienced con artists. Maybe that's it, yeah; he has talent in one thing, and makes the mistake of thinking he'll be equally gifted at some other thing, where he's really completely out of his element and gets eaten alive by the competition. Maybe the ones that pull it off know better than to fly too close to the sun.
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Jan 18, 2025 01:51
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Stringer, much like McNulty, thought he was the smartest guy in the room. Also like McNulty, often in the environment he was in he WAS the smartest guy in the room, and he made the mistake of thinking that meant he was ALWAYS the smartest guy in the room. I love that both of them hit moments in the series where they realize,"Oh poo poo, I'm in way over my head here!" though with Stringer this ends up with him being murdered while the worst that happens to McNulty usually leaves him mostly okay so he was always backsliding back into the same mindset. Even at the end of the series, he largely escapes the severest consequences for his actions, and I do wonder how long it would be till whatever he was doing ended up with him in a position where he got up to some nonsense again. Maybe he wouldn't have the reach/freedom that being police gave him, but I can see him causing problems in lots of different fields.
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Jan 18, 2025 02:01
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At their lowest points both McNulty and Stringer were outnumbered.
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Jan 18, 2025 02:50
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General Battuta posted:At their lowest points both McNulty and Stringer were outnumbered. 2 to 1 against McNulty, you hate to see it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUYuGNpOk5U
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Jan 18, 2025 02:53
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General Battuta posted:At their lowest points both McNulty and Stringer were outnumbered. McNulty vs the sea
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Jan 18, 2025 02:55
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One consistent theme in The Wire is that Stringer is repeatedly shown to be nowhere near as smart as he thinks he is, and that he repeatedly misjudges situations and makes the wrong decisions. I have zero doubt that as a businessman bankruptcy would have been there in his future. Avon on the other hand is shown to both have a very good feel for the streets, and is also content to remain where he is strong, in those streets. Bear in mind that while Stringer was off playing away games Avon was bringing the war to Marlo and doing a drat good job of it without Stringers input. They were a good partnership and both helped make the Barksdales strong. But Avon without Stinger would still have been a kingpin. Stringer without Avon would have slipped up eventually.
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Jan 18, 2025 21:08
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It's called market saturation 
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Jan 18, 2025 21:28
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bucketybuck posted:One consistent theme in The Wire is that Stringer is repeatedly shown to be nowhere near as smart as he thinks he is, and that he repeatedly misjudges situations and makes the wrong decisions. I have zero doubt that as a businessman bankruptcy would have been there in his future. Biting on the most obvious controlled buy was a pretty big one early on.
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Jan 18, 2025 21:40
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Troll Bridgington posted:I wonder if they were Day of the Jackal types? We'll never know! P.S. I watched the movie Day of the Jackal after Avon said that and it's loving great.
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Jan 19, 2025 00:10
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Stringer trying to teach a bunch of drug dealers MBA stuff is always hilarious
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Jan 19, 2025 00:20
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bucketybuck posted:One consistent theme in The Wire is that Stringer is repeatedly shown to be nowhere near as smart as he thinks he is, and that he repeatedly misjudges situations and makes the wrong decisions. I have zero doubt that as a businessman bankruptcy would have been there in his future. I think Avon was right when he said that Stringer was "not hard enough for this right here and maybe, just maybe, not smart enough for them out there. "
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Jan 19, 2025 15:52
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Alhazred posted:I think Avon was right when he said that Stringer was "not hard enough for this right here and maybe, just maybe, not smart enough for them out there. "
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Jan 19, 2025 15:59
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bucketybuck posted:One consistent theme in The Wire is that Stringer is repeatedly shown to be nowhere near as smart as he thinks he is, and that he repeatedly misjudges situations and makes the wrong decisions. I have zero doubt that as a businessman bankruptcy would have been there in his future. I've seen this opinion before. I think it is partially true but over stated. In S1 Stringer is extremely cautious. Telling Bodie to pull out the payphones in the pit, for example. The origins of the code that Prez broke aren't stated but it smells like String. He has Wallace killed because he correctly assumed that Wallace was willing to snitch. He cautioned against a war with Omar which Avon foolishly ignored. And in the end his caution saved him as Avon was taken to jail but he remained free. In S2 he has few good moves to make. His connect bails on him. His muscle is in jail. Was it a bad idea to work with Prop Joe to trade territory for product? Maybe, but it kept the money coming in and avoided police scrutiny. It fell apart mostly because Avon was opposed to it and set Muzone loose. Without Muzone the deal might have been stable, or gotten to a point where enough money was coming in to parlay for more muscle or a different connect. And he has D killed, again sensing he was no longer on side. In S3 Avon and Stringer were a house divided. Here Stringer really fall apart, but then so did Avon. Avon immediately went on the offensive but ended up being out maneuvered by Marlo, losing more muscle and getting shot himself. When Avon accused Stringer of not being rough enough for the streets Stringer physically dominated the injured Avon and revealed he had D hit. Stringer carries himself in a self important, wannabe-intellectual way which might make his mistakes stand out. But Avon repeatedly made mistakes on the street which cost him dearly. I think both are to blame in equal measure.
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Jan 19, 2025 16:50
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I wonder about Avon’s war though; doesn’t it end with a scene where the barksdales are about to hit Marlo at his home base, but it fails because the cops hit barksdale first before he can move out? I guess the jury’s out on whether that would have worked anyway, but the implication at least is that they caught Marlo in a rare moment of vulnerability but got foiled by outside factors.
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Jan 19, 2025 18:45
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Count Roland posted:. He has Wallace killed because he correctly assumed that Wallace was willing to snitch. He cautioned against a war with Omar which Avon foolishly ignored. And in the end his caution saved him as Avon was taken to jail but he remained free.
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Jan 19, 2025 20:02
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There are some things that "make sense" in the business world that don't work in the drug game and Stringer didn't realize that https://youtu.be/Oj8JBBAM5jY?si=qgZKG0oKLrE0gQ-J The CEO telling the workers he made more money with less of you was not a great idea
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Jan 19, 2025 21:49
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WithoutTheFezOn posted:Woah woah woah. It was Stringer's idea to brutalize Omar's boyfriend to make an example, right? That’s what caused both of those things. I don't think so? Avon and Stringer and Stink and Bay are playing basketball. I think it's Avon that calls for Omar to be strung up like a deer. Puts the bounty on him. When Brandon is spotted at the arcade the message goes through Stringer who approves the hit, but I don't recall him calling for any extra brutality or anything.
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Jan 19, 2025 23:42
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