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General Battuta
Feb 7, 2011

This is how you communicate with a fellow intelligence: you hurt it, you keep on hurting it, until you can distinguish the posts from the screams.

It's real science!

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General Battuta
Feb 7, 2011

This is how you communicate with a fellow intelligence: you hurt it, you keep on hurting it, until you can distinguish the posts from the screams.

I hate the Greek so much. Every other 'villain' in the series, even Marlo, has some kind of pull or appeal (even if, in Marlo's case, it's terror). But the Greek's just smug business in a greasy diner and he's got everything set up perfectly. I hate hate hate him. He's a creative success and I wouldn't erase him from the series but God do I hate his stupid little face.

General Battuta
Feb 7, 2011

This is how you communicate with a fellow intelligence: you hurt it, you keep on hurting it, until you can distinguish the posts from the screams.

LordPants posted:

If you thought that Frank went to the big Union in the sky at the end of Season 2, well it's great to see him as a American Pilot's Association representative in Sully.

They should get along great! They both ended up in the water

General Battuta
Feb 7, 2011

This is how you communicate with a fellow intelligence: you hurt it, you keep on hurting it, until you can distinguish the posts from the screams.

Boywhiz88 posted:

So I was just hopping around Wikipedia while on my rewatch of The Wire. Ed Norris has “the headshot” done to him during a corruption investigation. I really need to listen to the commentaries because I’m sure how that came into Simon’s stratosphere.

I had to look this up, so for the benefit of thread viewers as dense as me, The Headshot is a technique used by federal prosecutors to turn a minor investigation into major jail time. You look at the target’s mortgage documents and try to find any false or sketchy claims they made to secure the mortgage (like claiming your gtandpa’s money as your own asset). Then you can indict for bank fraud and threaten thirty years in jail, forcing them to plea bargain.

General Battuta
Feb 7, 2011

This is how you communicate with a fellow intelligence: you hurt it, you keep on hurting it, until you can distinguish the posts from the screams.

Decriminalizing a bunch of drugs and vastly scaling back the carceral state might be centrist but it would still be good if it happened, as compared to it not happening.

General Battuta
Feb 7, 2011

This is how you communicate with a fellow intelligence: you hurt it, you keep on hurting it, until you can distinguish the posts from the screams.

I hate the Greek so much. Not as a character or a part of the show, just as a person. I hate his weird little face and his weird little expressions and the way he gets away with everything. I hate his twee diner and his sipping. I hate him

General Battuta
Feb 7, 2011

This is how you communicate with a fellow intelligence: you hurt it, you keep on hurting it, until you can distinguish the posts from the screams.

I think about this a lot, what is 'real power' in the Wire? Is it the protection of the law to hide your crimes behind? Is it being part of the state?

General Battuta
Feb 7, 2011

This is how you communicate with a fellow intelligence: you hurt it, you keep on hurting it, until you can distinguish the posts from the screams.

I think I would argue that in the narrow tactical sense of The Wire's game, 'true power' is the ability to move elements of your strength outside the Baltimore game and into larger structures. The Greek is truly powerful because he's hooked up as a federal informant, for example. Marlo and Avon and Stringer lack 'true power' because their centers of gravity are still vulnerable to the game. Major Crimes certainly isn't truly powerful. Brother Mouzone is truly powerful because he doesn't have any vulnerabilities inside the game aside from the corporal risk of being shot—his power base is up in New York. Omar is 100% in the game, unfortunately; imagine how much more 'powerful' he'd be if his boyfriends were out of reach. Stringer tries to move his power out of the game but fails. D'angelo is completely powerless. In a sense Namond is powerful because his dad is watching over him from out of the game, and it's Weebey who ultimately saves him from the life.

I dunno, just a toy model. Zoom it out and everything's just embedded in a bigger game.

General Battuta
Feb 7, 2011

This is how you communicate with a fellow intelligence: you hurt it, you keep on hurting it, until you can distinguish the posts from the screams.

Yes, but he’s powerful as a soldier, and able to pursue his own objectives, because the people who give him authority and money and so forth are out of reach. If he worked directly for the Barksdales he’d be dead meat the moment Stringer wanted him gone.

General Battuta
Feb 7, 2011

This is how you communicate with a fellow intelligence: you hurt it, you keep on hurting it, until you can distinguish the posts from the screams.

BiggerBoat posted:

Avatar/post combo



TBH, Brother Mouzone was another character/part of the show that often brushed up against the realm of suspending disbelief, and sometimes Omar too. I think I've posted similar sentiments before. Some of the poo poo those characters pulled off (as much as I love them both) and the way they went about it danced dangerously close to "this is a TV show" in ways that strained my ability to take the story seriously on occasion, and every once in a while felt out of place with their mutual over the top bad assery, fun as they were. Neither of their portrayals went entirely over the edge enough to take me out of the show completely but I think the way they were written sometimes came the closest to doing so, so i'll say that anyway.

People love that standoff between Omar and BM in the alley but, to me, some of the exchanges like that pushed real close to the edge of some some Clint Eastwood poo poo, even as well as the show somehow still pulled it off.

I get this complaint but on the other hand real life is loving weird. They had to tone down some of Omar's feats from the irl guy he was based on.

Brother Mouzone is a weird and possibly anachronistic guy but I like the way the show gives him a plausible reason to be such an effective street enforcer. He's from the guys in New York, anyone looking to get him is going to learn that and understand that loving with Mouzone is borrowing trouble.

Omar is, uh, tactically capable, in that he's intimidating and has enough friends to avoid being pinned down and killed, but because his only power is in his physical personage he's doomed in the long run. Anybody who can be destroyed simply by being shot isn't going to last long in the game.

General Battuta
Feb 7, 2011

This is how you communicate with a fellow intelligence: you hurt it, you keep on hurting it, until you can distinguish the posts from the screams.

Gargamel Gibson posted:

Yeah, Omar dies if you kill him. Which characters does this not apply to?

Any character embedded in a power structure which will retaliate for their death. For example, you can't just go kill Clay Davis without massive blowback. Even the dealers are backed up by their organizations; if you get got, someone will take revenge.

General Battuta
Feb 7, 2011

This is how you communicate with a fellow intelligence: you hurt it, you keep on hurting it, until you can distinguish the posts from the screams.

We see in the show that killing Davis is considered out of bounds for the dealers, so he has some kind of institutional protection.

General Battuta
Feb 7, 2011

This is how you communicate with a fellow intelligence: you hurt it, you keep on hurting it, until you can distinguish the posts from the screams.

CharlestheHammer posted:

He does but that’s because they need him for business, even Omar at times was let go when he had protection. Only when Marlo didn’t give a gently caress was Omar hosed. If you think Marlo wouldn’t go at Clay Davis you miss the point of his character

I’m pretty sure Stringer wants to kill Davis but he’s told it would be absolutely insane to draw the kind of heat that comes with murdering a state senator. Marlo might do it but he’d still face institutional retaliation.

Clay isn’t gonna disappear into some vacants with a shrug.

General Battuta
Feb 7, 2011

This is how you communicate with a fellow intelligence: you hurt it, you keep on hurting it, until you can distinguish the posts from the screams.

CharlestheHammer posted:

Stringer didn’t do it because it would be bad for business which is exactly what Marlo is suppose to be a contrast to.

Also Kim’s or whatever got retribution but no one thinks she has any real power

Kima is a cop, it's pretty clear cops have real power over poor black people.

General Battuta
Feb 7, 2011

This is how you communicate with a fellow intelligence: you hurt it, you keep on hurting it, until you can distinguish the posts from the screams.

Van Dis posted:

I dunno I kinda felt the Big Reveal that Rawls is gay was the definition of an inconsequential detail and obvious attempt to add ~complexity~ to a character that had been pretty 1.1 dimensional, without understanding that his portrayal that way is already very effective for the narrative and didn't need to be "fixed" so to speak. It's already easy to infer that he's closeted from all his homophobic exclamations so seeing him in the bar reads are very "Here, idiot! Do you get it now? Do you?!" to me.

It's good because it's not a big reveal. Sometimes being gay is totally incidental to a character. Adding gay doesn't add complexity, it's just something someone can be, like a redhead or a coffee hater.

The scene it adds the most to is Landsman's story about intrusive thoughts about McNulty while he's jerking off. It makes Rawls laughing even funnier because he grasps how horrible that would be on multiple levels!

General Battuta
Feb 7, 2011

This is how you communicate with a fellow intelligence: you hurt it, you keep on hurting it, until you can distinguish the posts from the screams.

Van Dis posted:

That's exactly what I'm thinking about, because I think Rawls already got that hint of complexity in this scene:


because in that scene, we learn that Rawls is capable of some kind degree of forgiveness and grace. That's the polar opposite of his characterization in every other scene and does actually add something compelling to his character, and more importantly it develops the theme that realistic characters are complex and not just stand-ins for concepts (Marlo is one of the more notable offenders here). That's why Rawls' appearance in the gay bar feels so gimmicky to me, it completely fails to add to that theme or his character.

People aren't gay to add to a theme or character. They're just gay. They're tall or short, they're thin or fat, they're straight or gay or bi or whatever, it's just a trait people have.

General Battuta
Feb 7, 2011

This is how you communicate with a fellow intelligence: you hurt it, you keep on hurting it, until you can distinguish the posts from the screams.

It’s not intrinsically better writing to have a character’s traits left to subtext. Concealing Prop Joe’s hair color wouldn’t be dramatically preferable to showing it. Rawls is gay on screen and that’s good because too often gay characters are given plausible textual deniability to avoid pissing off homophobes.

If you want to dig into it thematically, consider that Rawls’ sexual orientation changes absolutely nothing about his behavior as a cop. He’s got a hidden side that might in theory make him sympathetic to the ‘other’ but in practice he’s still a fully incorporated armature of the war on drugs. Either he’s a true believer or very very good at playing his role without any qualms or moral hesitation. Or he’s really good at leaving his work at work, unlike McNulty or Kima.

General Battuta
Feb 7, 2011

This is how you communicate with a fellow intelligence: you hurt it, you keep on hurting it, until you can distinguish the posts from the screams.

ilmucche posted:

When they're making the busts in the out in season 1 and Bodie decks the cop I'm surprised kima comes across to join in beating on him. It struck me as out of character for her to sprint over to do that

In other shows Kima would be the Good Cop but this show wants to remind you that she’s still a cop.

I love the blocking in that scene, it looks like she’s trying to break up the fight but she just wants to get in.

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General Battuta
Feb 7, 2011

This is how you communicate with a fellow intelligence: you hurt it, you keep on hurting it, until you can distinguish the posts from the screams.

What is ‘it,’ beating up black kids? Or Kima being less than morally spotless? She cheats on her girlfriend, she’s not as much of a mess as McNulty but she’s hardly a textbook Good Person.

Now if you want dropped character flaws, I don’t think Daniels’ dirty past (took bribes, maybe?) ever came up again.

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