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CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!
The shield is decent and while it does get very actiony I donít think itís any more unrealistic than wire season 5 got.

Though itís weird as the show canít decide whether the protagonistís brutality is good or not.

CharlestheHammer fucked around with this message at 14:38 on Dec 23, 2018

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CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!

deoju posted:

I'd vote for Carcetti over Trump so loving hard.

Edit: My point is this: the candidate put forth by the Democrats will be flawed, but Trump is a loving fascist. Don't lose sight of that.

I mean Carcettis whole character is he would adapt to the situation if it fit his ambition so he would go fash incredibly quickly if need be.

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!
I mean the Democrats could have not run a very lovely candidate probably would have done more

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!
Yes? Do you think black cops donít internalize? A cop is a cop.

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!
Yes we should put all the police in jail.

Defending them seems counterproductive to that though

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!
I mean everyone knows David Simon is kind of a prick.

It doesnít effect my enjoyment of the show but he has always been a thin skinned rear end in a top hat

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!

Ginette Reno posted:

Avon also murdered his girlfriends, murdered kids, tortured and murdered people who stole from him. Murdered the working man for being an honest witness.

Less horrible than Marlo but not by much

I mean so did the cops and they were the heroes.

Only held down by the evil management that didnít allow them to do good police work

awesmoe posted:

like the OP said, socialist trappings

That was more Bells Captailistic influence corrupting them

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!
Someone said the wire is just chronicling the issues and isnít attempting to be a visionary it thatís not really true. The wire does present solutions. The fact the solutions are insanely limited in scope and ultimately ineffective is a different matter. Though just chronicling something is fundamentally impossible. Everything is effected by your personal politics. Subconsciously or not

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!
Lester is also hitting on her heavily while still active which I thought was going somewhere but nope itís just a happy ending for them

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!
I mean Simon was championing police reform on twitter so whatever he may have put on the show when push comes to shove he ultimately went to the centralist position

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!
Reforming by definition is centralist as reform is compromise as it goes by the theory that the system in itself just needs some tweaking.

Also what your describing is centralism.txt. Mainly focusing on stuff that doesnít really matter and ignoring the real problems. Like juking stats is dumb but not really that important a issue

CharlestheHammer fucked around with this message at 12:07 on Jul 4, 2020

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!
Though I should say that the wire recognizes some problems exists the ones it focuses on heavily favors the wants and fears of the suburbs and/or middle class types who favor LAW AND ORDER so I guess his views online match the show

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!
I mean I think itís more the Greeks are kind of boring. They are meant to be in the shadows and mysterious but that means you canít connect with them.

Especially with the contrast with the lively corner boys

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!
Ehhh Brother has no real power, other than being kind of a superhero.

He was good but ultimately he was just a solider

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!

General Battuta posted:

Yes, but heís powerful as a soldier, and able to pursue his own objectives, because the people who give him authority and money and so forth are out of reach. If he worked directly for the Barksdales heíd be dead meat the moment Stringer wanted him gone.

I mean if BM was in the series more he would have bit it quickly.

Heís lucky heís in and out

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!
I mean Brother nearly dies from a gunshot. Had Omar not believed him he would be in the ground.

Which I guess shows how little power he had as the only protection he had was the New York connection and not everyone cared about that

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!

General Battuta posted:

We see in the show that killing Davis is considered out of bounds for the dealers, so he has some kind of institutional protection.

He does but thatís because they need him for business, even Omar at times was let go when he had protection. Only when Marlo didnít give a gently caress was Omar hosed. If you think Marlo wouldnít go at Clay Davis you miss the point of his character

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!

General Battuta posted:

Iím pretty sure Stringer wants to kill Davis but heís told it would be absolutely insane to draw the kind of heat that comes with murdering a state senator. Marlo might do it but heíd still face institutional retaliation.

Clay isnít gonna disappear into some vacants with a shrug.

Stringer didnít do it because it would be bad for business which is exactly what Marlo is suppose to be a contrast to.

Also Kimís or whatever got retribution but no one thinks she has any real power

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!
The problem is it only really happens in season 1. Maybe Iím forgetting something but it doesnít come up as often as it should.

Hell season 1 shows a reformer Herc, though that just kind of gets forgotten later

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!

General Battuta posted:

What is Ďit,í beating up black kids? Or Kima being less than morally spotless? She cheats on her girlfriend, sheís not as much of a mess as McNulty but sheís hardly a textbook Good Person.

Now if you want dropped character flaws, I donít think Danielsí dirty past (took bribes, maybe?) ever came up again.

Police brutality yeah, the point was good cop.

I donít care all that much about what she does in her personal life. Nothing will overshadow McNulty

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!
Thatís romanticizing yeah. The first season has most of the police being racist but it honestly doesnít come up very often. Honestly the Wire isnít terribly interested in beat cops and mostly focuses on higher ups with the street cops more or less doing what they can in a bad situation with like a token rear end in a top hat cop who usually isnít terribly important

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!
How the wire treats the drug stuff is weird. You got the famous wars end line, but going after the drug kingpins is always presented as a good thing like your supposed to empathize with McNulties frustration at founding going towards terrorism. But then seasons end with the cycle of drug dealers and someone new replacing them.

So on some level it gets the pointlessness of the busts but it just canít go all the way

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!

Orange Devil posted:

The drugs are a symptom. What is bad is the economic and political system which has utterly discarded these people and would prefer them to die than treat them like human beings. Drugs, like so many other addictions, are a coping mechanism of last resort.

Which is my problem, this doesnít come from up a lot.

It kind of comes up with season four but itís undercut a bit by the boys being given outs but not taking them. Which kind of makes it a personal failing rather than systematic

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!

Darko posted:

They don't really get outs that they can recognize with the big picture. They are a victim of wrong place, wrong time.

I mean yeah like I said a personal failing. I get it wouldnít make for good TV if it was just soul crushing despair but thatís kind something Wire fans like to present the show as. A show that tells it like it is. Which I donít really think is true, it deals with the issues in a very surface level way.

Which I donít actually have a problem with, as no TV show really did that at the time. So while it defintely is pretty pro cop it is still a significant departure from its contemporaries.

I guess itís more a thing of fans overhyping a show they love

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!

Human Tornada posted:

The show doesn't portray the kids not getting out as a "personal failing", that is a truly bizarre reading. If anything the entire point of the kid's season was to show how these kids are sent on a path to destruction basically from birth. The Wee-Beys of the world are a product of their environment. Randy gets beaten up, given up by his foster mom because they firebombed his house, and is thrown into the system and forever labeled a snitch, all because an adult authority figure intimidated him (a child!) into telling on someone else.

Itís not a bizarre reading, itís what happened. Duckies was given an out he rejected. So did Michael. This isnít open to interpretation itís what happened. Those two have the strongest arcs and are the main focus of the boys

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!
Also Presbos redemption arc kind of sucks Iím not going to lie. He never really comes to terms with what he did or even really acknowledge why what he did was hosed up. He quits because he sucks.

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!
Yea but they have a choice, which is the point. Realistically people do not have that choice. I get why itís there for narrative reasons, but itís not terribly realistic. Which fundamentally changes things. Instead of a system that offers then no hope, itís their personal failings that do them in.

You can rationalize it how you want

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!
I mean the problem is the show has been hammering broken policing for so long and I feel like that went on a silly direction for a pretty mediocre payoff.

But thatís season 5 for ya

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!
They also didnít really intertwine. There was crossover sure but the point of neither arc really mattered to the other

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!
I thought the point of the serial killers thing is people only care about flashy poo poo nutty has been taking short cuts for his whole career.

Like I think his introduction with the judge is him taking a shortcut

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!
I mean fundamentally Gus is the same character as McNulty but without his flaws so itís not hard to see why heís annoying.

Like imagine if he was just hero cop protecting the streets for the children

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!

Randallteal posted:

I don't think Gus and Mcnulty and that similar. Gus is willing to play management's game to a point, is in a leadership / mentor role, and generally doesn't seem to be a workaholic. If anything he's more like Daniels season 1 and Alma is playing Mcnulty.

Yes thatís the flaws I was speaking if. Those things gently caress McNulty over more than helping his cause

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!
I mean the wire is weird in that the rank and file while not shown as angels, were presented as weirdly earnest

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!
I mean by the end Lester was the only character I actually cared enough about to see his stuff resolved so splitting it wouldnít have been ideal for me

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!

I forgot about Bubbles so two

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CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!
To be fair I donít think Herc at his worst would molest teenage girls apart of the ride along program so I think that is a bit unfair to Herc

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