Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us $3,400 per month for bandwidth bills alone, and since we don't believe in shoving popup ads to our registered users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


I'm only just starting episode one but 5 minutes in and I've already remembered just how much I love (and miss) the opening credits/theme song, regardless of who was singing it/what scenes/imagery they were using.

Also I love how the female security guard who perjures herself still manages to find a way to do it in a way that makes her look good and the police look like loving idiots. Even after they point out her signed witness statement showing she identified D'Angelo.

And considering that I normally find Idris Elba's American accent a little forced, I still can't get over how flawless it seems (to me at least) in The Wire. First time I saw the series I didn't realize he was British, but even after everything else I've seen him in I still think his accent in The Wire is excellent.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


escape artist posted:

I don't find it anachronistic. They deliberately juxtapose it with the high-tech poo poo in the FBI field office. Later in the season, Jimmy asks the FBI for just a couple of light-weight recording mics and Fitzhugh says "that's it?", to which Jimmy replies "we're just happy to be in the 20th century."

And the beepers thing are so they can't be tapped. Later in the season: Poot's cell phone is destroyed; Avon orders to have landlines in his girl's house deactivated; Lester remarks about the beepers being a "discipline".

Also, think about Season 4, when Prez finds all the computers and new textbooks in storage, while they use outdated stuff. I think it's actually intentional.

We're definitely in the 21st century during the entirety of the show. The Sept. 11th attacks are mentioned in the first episode.

If I remember right, in a scene nicely paralleled in season 4 as you mention in the bolded above, it turns out that the stuff that McNulty asks for from Fitzhugh is actually already in the department's inventory. They received it months (if not years) earlier and just stuck it in a room somewhere and forgot all about it.

Edit: Oh man the "McNugget" scene in episode 2.

"He still had the idea though!" - poor, sweet, innocent (drug-dealing) Wallace

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


Finished up episode 2 - I forgot all about the scene of a drunken McNulty shouting impotently at the would-be car thieves down the hill and across the road to stop before tumbling down the hill and his badge ending up in the mud. He laughs at the absurdity of it all, and I like that the thieves are scared away not by a member of the police force (whom they seem completely unaware of) but an automated, unaware, unthinking piece of machinery.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


Most of the Oz characters broke out of prison and fled into New York City, where they took on alibis and guest-starred in the original Law & Order a lot.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


inignot posted:

Episode 2, when De Angelo arrives at the community center with his girlfriend and kid; Stringer is already eying the girl.

With the benefit of hindsight, her "Ewww what are you doing old man?" reaction is pretty hilarious.

Edit: R.I.P. Donnie Andrews, it was always nice to read about a guy who made the most of the second chance he got.

Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 22:23 on Dec 15, 2012

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


Skeesix posted:

Other dovetail thing I noticed just watching episode 2 season 1 now:

When Levy goes to pick up D'angelo from homicide, he's bitching that he's missing Yvette's Brisket. As he offered to Herc on the last-ever episode.

Is anyone else shocked that Levy slaps D'Angelo on the back of the head as he leads him out? I know that most of the top guys have a pretty low opinion of D, but while I can see Levy lambasting him verbally, the humiliation of a slap on the head seems really odd to me.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


Something that only really just occurred to me and was probably pretty obvious to everyone else is the parallel between the deaths of the witnesses in season 1 and season 4.

In season 1, the witness (Willie Gant) is murdered presumably on Avon's orders though I don't think that is ever formally admitted to by him. The police are desperate to ignore that he was a witness, and when the press picks it up they insist that the fact he was a witness is just a coincidence. They hold a press conference to that effect, hauling poor old Bunk up along with Rawls (McNulty tells Kima that Bunk should have grabbed the mic and called for armed insurrection in the streets ) to state that they're investigating many other leads that indicate his death was nothing to do with being a witness. Eventually the story just disappears, becoming another in a long series of unsolved murders.

In season 4, another witness is killed (I can't recall his name, sadly) but this time during an election year. Carcetti uses the information expertly to paint Royce as soft on crime, unable to manage a city gone mad and run by gangsters. Once again the police fail to investigate this aspect of the crime, but this time because they don't want to raise the ire of the eventual winner of the election if their investigation potentially makes him look bad. After the election is over, Kima is allowed to fully investigate and quickly discovers that the "murder" was actually a horrible accident. The crime is solved, and as is noted,"Carcetti gets to be Mayor behind this bullshit?", which makes everything that follows in season 4 and season 5 possible.

It's interesting to see that in season one a witness is (probably) murdered by gangsters and nothing ever happens because of it. But in season 4, a witness is killed in a horrible accident that is erroneously blamed on gangsters, and it has a massive change on Baltimore in terms of politics both in the city, eventually in the State itself and who knows, maybe even one day the country as a whole.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


If I remember right, Sheila Dixon used to laud The Wire to everybody who would listen, until they introduced the Nerese Campbell character and suddenly the show wasn't so great anymore

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


It's funny, I actually forgot that Gant's murder was solved. I guess I was just remembering the trial itself and not who it was all about.

And yes, Wee-Bey tries to take the blame but the detectives see through that as a plot. Wee-Bey's entire "confession" scene really is a sight to see - his utter confidence and the blase way he lists off murder after murder, knowing that they can come back to him with the Death Penalty later on anything he doesn't list which actually gives him an odd kind of immunity. His loyalty is beyond question ("Bey's solid as a rock," Avon says at one point a couple of episodes earlier, from memory) because it is based on the notion that if he takes these things on his own back then the security and well-being of his family is guaranteed for life, and his own security and well-being in prison as well. He is effectively negotiating a retirement package, taking on all the poo poo floating around the Barksdales, being a company man and being rewarded for his hard work.

In season 2 we see that he and Avon live well in prison, and when one guard makes trouble for him they absolutely destroy the man's life. Twice actually, since it's revealed that they killed a family member of his in the past, and while it has dominated his life entirely, Avon doesn't even remember that it was down to the Barksdales. If I remember right, he looks bemused and asks Wee-Bey,"That was us?"

Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 11:43 on Dec 17, 2012

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


DarkCrawler posted:

I'm wondering how the hell does Avon live as well as he does? Doesn't he have a PS3 or something and KFC food etc. Does he basically have the entire prison bribed? Does stuff like that actually fly in the U.S. (because usually American prisons sound like they are somewhere between a Soviet gulag and Azkaban).

I'm sure there is an element of dramatization to the whole thing, but keep in mind that prison guards have pretty lovely jobs with pretty lovely pay. If some prisoner wants to throw you an extra $50 to let him have some KFC or look the other way about some entertainment contraband I imagine quite a few guards would figure why the hell not? I imagine the thought process is probably along the lines of,"It's not like I'm giving the guy a weapon, and he's still in prison so it's not like it is hurting anyone, plus if I don't do it another guard will anyway."

Edit: There was an interesting thing a journalist/academic did where he had some real life gangsters come in to watch The Wire with him and he recorded their thoughts/feelings on the realism (or not) of the show. I was always interested in the fact that every single one of them was adamant that Bunk was on the take, and that they saw absolutely nothing morally wrong with that at all. Their reasoning was that a policeman is paid badly, a policeman "in the pocket" wasn't likely to cross a certain line and you'd be foolish to ask him to, but giving him a few extra bucks in return for information/early warning of investigations and the like was perfectly fine.

Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 09:42 on Dec 17, 2012

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


Wee-Bey in season 4 really is amazing. Watching him offering his sage advice to Namond, but actually listening when Bunny comes in and learning from that was such a (desperately needed) glimmer of hope.

HoneyBoy posted:

"Man come down here to say my son can be anything he drat please."

I love the pride in his voice on that line. The sad thing is that until somebody said it to him, it had apparently never occurred to him.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


Aertuun posted:

It's also fairly bizarre the show never won an Emmy. Not that I think that winning an Emmy is any guarantee or indication of quality, but how did that not happen?

Emmys are based on single episodes of shows. The Wire is a show where "all the pieces matter" so it's difficult to present them ONE episode that stands out all on its own.

It still should have won Emmys for acting/writing etc

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


To be fair, I think episode 11 of season one (The Hunt) fits the Emmy criteria, was it nominated?

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


watt par posted:

The scene in season 4 where Royce chews out Burrell over leaking the witness murder then has Rawls stick around to tell him he'll put him in charge when he's re-elected is great. Rawls immediately goes to Carcetti and tells him what happened along with Odell Watkins abandoning Royce, letting him know he'll be his man after the primary. Dude is an inveterate backstabber.

The funny thing is how Burrell still manages to finagle keeping his job, leaving Rawls exposed because he made his move but didn't pull it off. It's a valuable lesson (in its own hosed up way) for Rawls and an example of just how good Burrell is at gaming the system.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


They're in that basement in season one, from season 2 on they get given their own offices by a very proud Valchek.

I love the first meeting in that office, with Daniels trying to explain what their strategy is while the construction is going on down the hallway, complete with interruptions for yelling. Then the one dude wanders in and asks if they're from purchasing

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


cletepurcel posted:

He basically only kept his job because he understood the racial politics of the city better than Rawls did, though.

As useless as Burrell was, I always feel kind of bad for him in the episode he finally gets fired. He gets fired because he jukes the stats despite Carcetti ordering him not to, and because Carcetti knew they were bullshit. And yet, if you look at it from Burrell's perspective it's hard to see how he had much of a choice - he probably figured that since Carcetti was running for governor, he couldn't afford more bad crime stats. He probably would have kept his job if Valchek hadn't gotten a hold of the real stats. He miscalculated because it was clearly easier for Carcetti to blame it on him than his own administration, but still. Then again, the guy manages to stab Daniels in the back on his way out the door still, so gently caress him.

He lands on his feet pretty well too, as Nareese promised. You see that the administration is still happy to make use of him in retirement and that he's got financial security - he's the one they bring in to try to convince Clay Davis to play ball, if I remember right? Of course, Clay plays by his own rules

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


"Does he have white face? Does he have white hands? No? Then he is not my President."

Goddammit, Boris, why'd you have to be a lunatic.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


Goddamn do I love it when David Simon rips somebody a new one.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


It has been said before, but anybody who hasn't read The Corner and Homicide: A Year In The Killing Streets owes it to themselves to do so. In The Corner in particular, Simon will reach points where he somewhat abandons the narrative/"characters" (it is a non-fiction account of real people after all) in order to go on lengthy asides/tirades about the complete failure of various elements of Government/society, puncture holes in many "common sense" solutions/beliefs and remind everybody just how hosed up things are.

His bit in the blog post about South Africa reminded me of probably my absolute favorite section from The Corner:

David Simon posted:

A war waged openly on the underclass would necessitate some self-inflicted scars, some damage to the collective soul of whatever kind of nation we think we are. And if we can't stomach that kind of horror show, perhaps the only real alternative is to keep pretending, to keep telling ourselves that it's only a matter of a stronger law or a better mousetrap or this year's model of poo poo-spinning politician swearing that he's the one to really get tough on crime.

So we ignore these dying neighborhoods, or run from them if they creep too close. In the end we know we can always cash in our chips, climb to the embassy roof and ride that last Huey to suburbia or some well-policed yuppie enclave in the best quadrants of our cities. We've got a right to walk away because it's our world; hell, we've got the tax returns to prove it.

But how far can we run from New York and Detroit, from Atlanta and Newark, from West Baltimore and East St. Louis? How many county lines must we cross before the damned of these cities will no longer follow? How many private security guards can we hire? How many motion sensors do we need? This is different, this war, and instinctively we know that retreat from it can never be total. These people that we're ready to abandon, they are not an alien foe - their tribe is our own. And these battlefields are not half a world away in places easily forgotten. This is us, America, at war with ourselves. In some weird way, this is our own manifest destiny coming back to bite us on the rear end, the pure-pedigreed descendant of all those God-fearing forefathers plunging into the wilderness, stripping the land, looking to feed off their new world, killing and being killed, opening up the east and marching west. Now, it's a twisted replay of that devouring, except that this time, we're the fodder.

We know this deep down; we read the newspapers, we watch the television. We have and they have not, and therefore, they need us. They need us so badly that they'll cross the lines and dodge the rent-a-cops and climb any wall we build. And in the end, there is no real surprise when you hear that your neighbor's car is gone. Or that the counter guy at the local 7-Eleven got aced in a robbery last night. Or that someone you work with pulled up to the pumps at the Route 32 Exxon and got carjacked. There should be no surprise when you come to that hideous moment for which you've spent a lifetime preparing, when you or someone you love walks down the wrong block, or into the wrong parking garage. In an instant, the illusions are obliterated and the reckoning - their reckoning - is yours as well.

Thirty years gone and now the drug corner is the center of its own culture. On Fayette Street, the drugs are no longer what they sell or use, but who they are. We may have begun by fighting a war on drugs, but now we're beating down those who use them. And along Fayette Street, the enemy is everywhere, so that what began as a wrongheaded tactical mission has been transformed into slow-motion civil war. If we never seriously contemplate alternatives, if we forever see the order of battle in terms of arrests and prisons and lawyers, then perhaps we deserve three more decades of failure.

In the end, we'll blame them, we always do.

And why the hell not? They've ignored our warning and sanctions, they've taken our check-day bribe and done precious little with it, they've turned our city streets into drug bazaars. Why shouldn't they take the blame?

If it was us, if it was our lonesome rear end shuffling past the corner of Monroe and Fayette every day, we'd get out, wouldn't we? We'd endure. Succeed. Thrive. No matter what, no matter how, we'd find the loving exit.

If it was our fathers firing dope and our mothers smoking coke, we'd pull ourselves past it. We'd raise ourselves, discipline ourselves, teach ourselves the essentials of self-denial and delayed gratification that no one in our universe ever demonstrated. And if home was the rear room of some rancid, three-story shooting gallery, we'd rise about that too. We'd shuffle up the stairs past nodding fiends and sullen dealers, shut the bedroom door, turn off the television, and do our schoolwork. Algebra amid the stench of burning rock; American history between police raids. And if there was no food on the table, we're certain we could deal with that. We'd lie about our age to cut taters and spill grease and sling fries at the sub shop for five-and-change-an-hour, walking every day past the corner where friends are making our daily wage in ten minutes.

No matter. We'd persevere, wouldn't we? We'd work that job by night and go to class by day, by some miracle squeezing a quality education from the disaster that is the Baltimore school system. We'd do all the work, we'd pay whatever the price. And when all the other children are out in the street, learning the corner world, priming themselves for the only life they've ever known, we'd be holed up in some shithole of a rowhouse with our textbooks and yellow highlighter, cramming for finals. Come payday, we wouldn't blow that minimum-wage check on Nikes, or Fila sweat suits, or Friday night movies at Harbor Park with the neighborhood girls. No loving way, brother, because we pulled self-esteem out of a dark hole somewhere and damned if our every desire isn't absolutely in check. We don't need to buy any status; no, we can save every last dollar, or invest it, maybe. And in the end, we know, we'll head off to our college years shining like a new dime, swearing never to set foot on West Fayette Street again.

That's the myth of it, the required lie that allows us to render our judgments. Parasites, criminals, dope fiends, dope peddlers, whores - when we can ride past them at Fayette and Monroe, car doors locked, our field of vision cautiously restricted to the road ahead, then the long journey into darkness is underway. Pale-skinned hillbillies and hard faced yos, toothless white trash and gold-front gangsters - when we can glide on and feel only fear, we're well on the way. And if, after a time, we can glimpse the spectacle of the corner and manage nothing beyond loathing and contempt, then we've arrived at last at that naked place where a man finally sees the sense in stretching razor wire and building barracks and directing cattle cards into the compound.

It's a reckoning of another kind, perhaps, and one that becomes a possibility only through the arrogance and certainty that so easily accompanies a well-planned and well-tended life. We know ourselves; from what we value most, we grant ourselves the illusion that it's not chance and circumstance, that opportunity itself isn't the defining issue. We want the high ground; we want our own worth to be acknowledged. Morality, intelligence, values - we want those things measured and counted. We want it to be about Us.

Yes, if we were down there, if we were the damned of the American cities, we would not fail. We would rise above the corner. And when we tell ourselves such things, we unthinkingly assume that we would be consigned to places like Fayette Street fully equipped, with all the graces, talents and training that we now possess. Our parents would still be our parents, our teachers still our teachers, our broker still our broker. Amid the stench of so much defeat and despair, we would kick fate in the teeth and claim our deserved victory. We would escape to live the life we were supposed to live, the life we are living now. We would be saved, and as it always is in matters of salvation, we know this as a matter of perfect, pristine, faith.

Why? The truth is plain:

We were not born to be niggers.

Seriously, buy these books and read them.

Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 04:06 on Dec 28, 2012

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


friendo55 posted:

I shall take your recommendation and am ordering right now.
This also reminds me that I still need to watch The Corner!
I'll say its a good way to start 2013.
Which should I do first - read or watch?

That reminds me that I was gifted The Corner (the DVD) recently and I still need to watch it. I'd say to read the book first but if you have to wait for that to arrive, I guess watch the show first.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


Sarkozymandias posted:

Well Ziggy I knew you were a stupid motherfucker but drat.

Hahaha, I'm afraid you're going to have to be a little more specific about exactly which time Ziggy being a stupid motherfucker you're talking about

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


escape artist posted:

Yes and I will do them at a faster pace, too. The holidays + myself being sick, and my dog being deathly sick needing 'round the clock care, has sort of postponed it. I was up 36 hours tending to him-- just holding him to try and make him comfortable.

I'm glad you're not Cheese. He's your dog, and he'll always have much love for you.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


BrBa posted:

A scene I didn't like: McNulty admitting that his 'crusade' to bring Avon to justice was all about proving how smart he is. This show is normally smarter than having a character openly state their motivation like that.

What I like about that is that McNulty is just self-aware enough to recognize this flaw in himself, but not enough to actually make a change. Even when it seems that he has (in season 4) we quickly see him fall back into his old habits and in the end the job has to be forcibly taken from him for him to finally be able to let go.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


DarkCrawler posted:

I don't remember that...I always thought he was pissed because he lost an useful witness.

It goes back to his limited self-awareness. He's human/self-aware enough to feel guilty over Bodie's death - after all, he "knew" Bodie, would chat to him on the street and had worked out a rough peacetime compromise with him over when to be on the corners and when not, and it was his "fault" that Bodie was killed. But that's temporary, his guilt over Bodie's death is quickly overcome by his overwhelming need to "beat" the bad guy (Marlo this time, Stringer in the past, Avon before that) and "win". "I owe it to this dead corner kid" quickly goes from genuine contrition to just another in a long line of justifications for his own lovely behavior.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


escape artist posted:

Don't you remember his chat with Beadie, in bed, when they kissed after sleeping? (Gross) He said "corner boy... I owe it to him.) Not to mention he got him out of jail despite Rhonda's objections, not to mention he had a couple "sammichs" with him.

He was happy walking a foot beat; I almost feel like his pursuit of Marlo was a direct result of Bodie's death. "I owe it to him"-- he basically admitted that he was the result of Bodie's death.


Nope. That was Wallace, contrasted by Daniels simultaneous reaction.

Stringer, on the other hand, McNulty was all about outsmarting him. It was an obsession. Right at the end of S3, he denies Daniels' request to be in the major crimes unit, despite Marlo inheriting the crown, and he recognized that what makes him good police, is what makes him bad at everything else. McNulty showed a great deal of growth in that episode, and of course in Season 4-- it was Season 5 where he regressed to his old self.

I'm not disputing that McNulty felt bad about Bodie's death and that he had the best of intentions when he rejoined the Major Cases Squad and went after Marlo, but those genuine feelings pretty quickly became just another in a long line of McNulty excuses/justifications for what he was doing.

As you note, at the end of season 3 and for much of season 4 he has learned to back off and he is a much better person for it. Lester and Bunk should know better but continually goad him to get back in the game, and when he eventually does it is with the best of intentions. But by the time he is faking the serial killer deaths, those good intentions are long in the past and it's once again become about him him. Him against the police, against the mayor (who he personally blames for making him "believe") and somewhere lower on the list, on the actual drug kingpin who is killing people.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


Season 2 is also the closest that the police EVER get in the series to actually making an arrest that would have delivered a crippling (but not permanent, sadly) blow to the drug trade in Baltimore. While Avon and Marlo and Prop Joe and the like are all big players, it's the supplier that is the true King and they get within minutes of capturing The Greek (who is not even Greek). Even then, as is always true in this show, you can pretty much guarantee that nothing would have happened as it is revealed in that same season that The Greek operates with the tacit approval of the US Government, as he works as an informant for them so they can get good PR with opportune "big busts" for maximum PR.

It's another example of "drugs on the table" on a far larger scale. The Federal Government is playing the numbers/stats game just as much as the State and Local Governments are, and it further reinforces what a lie the "War on Drugs" is.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


escape artist posted:

I just realized the irony of The War on Drugs and The War on Terror-- the Greek operates in both of these futile charades, on the "bad" side in one and on the "good" side of the other.

(The Greek was protected by the FBI because of his knowledge of potential terrorists, right? I could be wrong-- but I thought he sold out the Colombians for buying a huge supply of chemicals. Then again, those could have been made to manufacture cocaine-- ironic any way you look at it.)

Yep, for the first couple of times I watched season 2 I actually thought the Homeland Security guy was a mole/bought agent working exclusively for The Greek. It took the other version of this thread to set me right and make me see that The Greek was working for him and that he wasn't surreptitiously sneaking information to The Greek, but openly warning him in order to protect an asset in the "War on Terror". Agent Fitzhugh realizes his "mistake" and tells Daniels at the end of season 2, and both pretty much realize,"Ahh poo poo, the Greek is working with the Government and they're protecting him, we were NEVER going to get him."

What I find really interesting is that while The Greek and Vondas flee Baltimore at the end of season 2, by season 4/5 they're not only back in Baltimore but brazenly back in their old hangout which the police knew about. It was a good reminder that while a case might obsess a detective/squad for a period of time, once the case is closed they pretty much just move on with their lives to the next case, there is nobody keep an eye on old known criminal haunts, and even if they wanted to there wouldn't be the time, manpower or money to do so.

Edit: As a final aside, Season 2 of The Wire was probably the greatest season of a television program in the history of the entire universe.... up until season 4 came out.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


cletepurcel posted:

And for whatever reason none of the other dealers ever realize this about Bubs through four seasons.

Think how many burned out drug addicts the dealers see for 10-15 seconds at a time in a day, all blurring together, coming in and out stumbling around in similar looking clothes, heads down, the dealers mostly paying attention to the money they've been given etc.

Omar has the benefit of being able to stand back and take in the big picture.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


I think it's meant to demonstrate that McNulty keeps his finger at least somewhat on the pulse of the street. Remember one of the key themes is just how detached from the street most of the organizations/bureaucracies are, particularly in season 5 when the "hero" of the newspaper fights a war over the integrity of their reporting while remaining completely ignorant of what is happening in the city as well as the MASSIVE story of the poo poo McNulty pulled.

Narcotics had no idea who Avon is and they're the ones who are meant to be going after people like him. I'd say McNulty (homicide) knew because of the bodies that were dropped during Avon's rise to the top, and his investigations hitting a brick-wall where the most he could find out was that the dead people were ones who had stood in the path of what were now known as "Barksdale corners".

GreenCard78 posted:

Michael doesn't last long in the game. He uproots and moves to Beverly Hills to attend high school.

Speculating about The Wire is always fun, though. I like to think if another season had been around it would have been about crime moving to the edges of the city and certain sections of the county, where it does go in real life. The neighborhoods The Wire plays out in had been bad for decades and the characters were born into an already hosed up environment. It would be interesting to see neighborhoods in transition and what happens when the old generation when faced with a new generation of people.

From memory they were keen to do something about the growing Latino population in Baltimore but they were lucky to get a fifth season as it was and they admitted that neither of them (Simon or Burns) could really speak as any kind of authority on the subject, whereas between them they were experts with firsthand knowledge of the police, the politics, the newspapers and the school system. I don't know if they had any background into the docks for season 2, but they sure as hell pulled that off.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


Check out Appropriate Adult if you get a chance, Dominic West is utterly terrifying in it.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


And Kima's relationship breaking down (mirroring McNulty's disastrous marriage) was a good way of showing that whether you are gay or straight is immaterial - sometimes people just aren't ready to be parents or husbands/wives, and that police work can have a straining effect on a relationship regardless of the genders of the people involved.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


SpookyLizard posted:

Actually I think her girlfriend wanted Kima to become a full on lawyer. Kima Greggs Esquire.

Kima was initially Daniels' protege, and it's interesting that Daniels' wife also wanted him to be a lawyer (he already had his degree, from memory, and I think he just had to sit the Bar Exam?) though I'm guessing,"Do something that doesn't involve getting shot at" isn't an exactly uncommon reaction for police officer's significant others. Both resist because both want to remain police, and like McNulty Daniels is basically forced out of the force at the end but seems happy enough in his new life.

I was always amused that Daniels ends up exactly where his ex-wife always wanted him to be, and she was right that he WAS much happier in the role, but that in the process he basically ruined his personal and professional life, though it all works out thanks to his relationship with Pearlman. McNulty's only saving grace is probably going to be Beadie, so long as he is able to get back to that happy place he found himself over most of season 4. Meanwhile, out of the three of them the one who stays in the job she loves is probably going to face the most troubling/problematic life as Kima has to deal with the politics of her association with McNulty, Freamon and Daniels, as well as the bullshit of the bureaucracy.

Meanwhile, the Bunk keeps on keeping on

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


escape artist posted:

Actually, IIRC correctly, Cheryl was the one who wanted to be a lawyer (remember Kima said something to Cheryl about 'passing the bar'), and I believe Marla wanted Daniels to climb the career ladder, all the way to the top rung of the police chain of command.

Also, don't forget, Kima said to Lester that she is "loving" her spot in homicide, and compared to most police jobs, that is a relatively safe one.

Feel free to correct me, but I ask that you cite an episode number, just because I consider myself to be a Wire scholar.

I definitely remember Kima early in season one (as in within the first 2-3 episodes) complaining about her "homework" studying for her law degree, and Cheryl chiding her because it's something they both "agreed" that Kima wanted to do. Kima is pretty much going along with it to keep Cheryl happy, and Cheryl wants her to get promoted just so she can get off of the street.

Wikipedia posted:

Greggs lived with her partner Cheryl, a broadcast journalist, and was studying for a law degree from home, having been pressured to do so by Cheryl.

Cheryl is looking for stability and safety for the two of them and their eventual family, and Kima really just agrees with everything to avoid confrontation because she doesn't want to change at all. After Kima gets shot, Cheryl demands that she become a "house cat" and only work a desk from now on, and Kima once again goes along with it to avoid a confrontation, but admits during a drunken night out with a couple of other women that she lives for being out there on the frontline. I imagine that her guilt over doing this plays a part in her going along with Cheryl's decision to gets pregnant, probably thinking that a confrontation deferred is a confrontation forever put away. Of course, Cheryl gets pregnant and is all excited about moving on to the next phase of their life, while Kima wants things to stay exactly as they were and only admits it far too late.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


I've always enjoyed Herc working the phones for Royce, purely out of his own self-interest.

"Now not to be offensive, but I can tell from your voice that you are a black woman. And you can probably tell from mine that I'm a white man. And yet here I am supporting the black candidate. That's right, he's just the best man for the job!"

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


chesh posted:

In short, Rawls? Was totally normal to be on the down low. That should not be shocking to us, but it is, because we have short attention spans. What is shocking, to me, is to realize that The Wire has Rawls, Omar, and Kima as three different and fully fleshed out predominant gay characters on TV, whereas before that you can count Will and Jack from Will and Grace and Willow from Buffy on the one and only gay hand of television.

Hell, I still remember an episode of L.A Law where for the full week leading up to the episode airing the media was just full of,"LESBIAN KISS ON L.A LAW! THE GAY AGENDA HAS GONE MAD!" and when the episode aired, one woman lightly pecks another woman on the lips. I still remember my Dad saying,"What was all the fuss about? That was very tasteful."

Watching old episodes of NYPD Blue, I still sometimes have to remind myself that the Sipowicz/"Gay John" relationship was pretty groundbreaking in that it showed an old racist, sexist, homophobe realizing across a period of time that not only was it completely okay for a guy to be gay, but that he genuinely liked and respected the guy as well

Other than that? I vaguely recall Melrose Place had an openly gay character right from the start, and all I can really think of before then was played for laughs, ala Sammy Davis Jr. kissing Archie in All in the Family.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


escape artist posted:

Law & Order treated homosexual characters fairly very early on. I'll never forget Detective Logan knocking the lights out of that homophobic politician. But gays were portrayed as normal, sometimes as criminal, sometimes as witnesses... No stereotypes, they were just a part of the community, and their characterization had nothing to do with their sexuality.

That reminds me of one of my favorite,"Oh by the way - this character is gay" moments in television of all time.

"Is this because I'm a lesbian?"

From memory, this is her last appearance in the show, and is the first time any reference to her sexuality ever came up. I always liked the suggestion that everybody was fully aware the character was gay and it wasn't a big deal (because it shouldn't be!).

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


escape artist posted:

The moment I stopped liking Carcetti was when he leaves the money for the school on the table.

"That smug son of a bitch. He was going to make me beg."

Yeah, Carcetti complains that by taking the money he would be giving the Governor (and the Republicans) a massive political leg-up and it would take him a few years at least to recover from the damage, so he could kiss being Governor goodbye.... for the time being.

At no point does Carcetti ever seem to think to himself,"And... so what?" - he puts his own personal interests ahead of the welfare of the children and exposes himself (particularly to Norman) as just another politician who talks a good game but whose true interests are in his own career.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


Frostwerks posted:

He did not play, so he could not lose.

Haha, that's perfect.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


SpookyLizard posted:

I can only imagine the FBI wouldve snatched up the prosecution or something so they could do it as they liked. Or they probably had some preplanned idea, but would certainly do everything they could to help the Greek from being captured

I always figured that IF he had been caught, he would have been hosed, but because he got out in time he was basically golden and felt free to return to Baltimore in a relatively short amount of time (and even go back to the exact same location where the police had been aware of him earlier). I doubt the FBI would have wanted the embarrassment of bailing him out if he'd been arrested in a relatively showy fashion by Baltimore PD. One thing this show taught me is that no matter the institution, covering your rear end always seems to be the go-to position.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


Skeesix posted:

I found out today that the McNugget scene was ever-so-slightly bullshit.

The actual creator of the Chicken McNugget was the first Executive Chef for McDonalds, Rene Arend. He was also the creator of the McRib and Sausage McMuffin. Before his time at McDonalds, he was a very accomplished cook, serving the Queen of England, Cary Grant, etc. He held positions as head chef at the Drake hotel and the Whitehall club in Chicago before leaving for the better hours, better pay and challenge of McDonalds.

The point is, while he certainly didn't get any sort of percentage, he did better than anyone depicted in The Wire.

What's important in that scene is not the actual historical facts (as already pointed out, D'Angelo is adamant that Alexander Hamilton was a US President) but the point D is making as a parallel to the drug game (as also shown in the chess scene) - the American dream has no place here, the plucky little guy doesn't pull himself up by the bootstraps and the people at the top will hammer you down and use your hard work to make their own success. Not only does the King stay the King, but no pawn is going to become a Queen, even if they ARE a clever rear end pawn.

Out of that group, the only one who comes out alive and survives ends up working a minimum wage job selling shoes, and he is the "winner" of the group, the guy who "made it".

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply