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Happy Thread
Jul 9, 2005


Plaster Town Cop

Baltimore Sun has you covered

https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/b...3251-story.html

quote:

Official police jargon for a black man suspected of a crime is "number one male." I don't think we're called that because we're number one in the affections of police. I think we can also rule out that police subscribe to the Nation of Islam belief that the black man is the original man.

"Number one male" probably stems from the idea that a black male is considered by police the most likely description of a suspect in any crime. Or in the case of those of Susan Smith's ilk, we're the first ones they think of blaming whenever they commit a crime. Ms. Smith's story is similar to that of Boston's Charles Stuart, who murdered his pregnant wife in 1989, shot himself in the stomach and blamed a fictional black suspect. The irony is that in both cases, even the police eventually saw through both stories.

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Happy Thread
Jul 9, 2005


Plaster Town Cop

The part about him beating up a Bernie supporter during 2016 was unexpected, yikes

Happy Thread
Jul 9, 2005


Plaster Town Cop

Whose job is it to put the offending police officers in jail? After watching this show, do you think that that actually happens? Did the show you watched not explore the role of people's attitudes and their casual dismissals in signalling the deeper rot and corruption around them, causing the institution's process to work completely contrary to its stated goals?

Happy Thread
Jul 9, 2005


Plaster Town Cop

Someone pointed out in the Youtube comments that it's another chess game reference.... both sides can agree the game is over once the king is surrounded. Avon just smiles as if to say "checkmate, good game, I played well"...

Happy Thread
Jul 9, 2005


Plaster Town Cop

What would Stringer Bell say about taking notes about all this

Happy Thread
Jul 9, 2005


Plaster Town Cop

I just found some really old questions I had written down to post and never did.

1. When Omar robbed Marlo at the poker game, why wouldn't he have just shot Marlo as soon as Marlo promised revenge, while on his way out with all the money? Could have saved himself a lot of trouble later, although I'm guessing there's a good reason.

2. When the police led by Marimow went around raiding all the suspected stashhouses and came up empty, why wasn't Old Face Andre's convenience store on the list? Didn't Greggs document it as a stash house? She certainly thought it was one. Wasn't it still a major distribution point?

3. When the other prisoner made an attempt on Omar in the prison cafeteria, it seemed like they were already somehow in line ahead of Omar and picked a fight with someone else who was also ahead of Omar as a cover for the attack. How could the attacker have known Omar was going to get in line right behind him? lol

Happy Thread
Jul 9, 2005


Plaster Town Cop

Thanks all. Wasn't there a scene of Kima doing a stakeout outside Andre's and narrating as suspicious stuff was happening? It's been a while so I don't remember, just guessing at the frame of mind I was in when I typed those so many episodes ago

Happy Thread
Jul 9, 2005


Plaster Town Cop

Got it. That sounds familiar.

Happy Thread
Jul 9, 2005


Plaster Town Cop

algebra testes posted:

Just don't do what I did and google it and find out more than you wanted to know.

Agggh no David Simon stop dating this goon's mom

Happy Thread
Jul 9, 2005


Plaster Town Cop

Just got blocked by David Simon on Twitter for posting this comment. I'll take it as a badge of honor. He's usually such a hero on Twitter, his anger must be just coming out sideways today.

https://twitter.com/Monogrammaton/s...369026729099264

e: he even replied!
https://twitter.com/AoDespair/statu...369302982905856

Happy Thread fucked around with this message at 05:57 on Feb 20, 2020

Happy Thread
Jul 9, 2005


Plaster Town Cop

awesmoe posted:

you sealioned on in and got what was coming to you

Oh really, I got what was coming, what's that? Am I supposed to feel punished that one single person on Twitter can no longer see my posts after their tantrum? Ok.

He's so petty that he followed it with a gloating message that he blocked me, and then 20 minutes later he was still thinking about it so much that he came back to ALSO scrub me from his "followed by" list. I know because for a while there I still had him followed.

And I guess it's sealioning now if anyone wants to have a conversation at all after someone publicly declares for a presidential candidate, on open discussion forum in a thread they started. Especially if how they did it is wildly inconsistent and off-tone for them, in a way that their fans will have loads of questions about.

Happy Thread
Jul 9, 2005


Plaster Town Cop

RIP Stringer Bell, again

https://twitter.com/THR/status/1239631710767190016

Happy Thread
Jul 9, 2005


Plaster Town Cop

kaworu posted:

Hello, my fellow Wire fans! I have been considering a rewatch, especially since I don't think I have seen anything other than *some* of Season 1 since HBO remastered the show. It'd be cool to watch it again, this time in FHD instead of standard 4:3. I feel like The Wire must've been one of the last 'prestige' dramas to have been made in 4:3, on HBO or anywhere else. By the time The Wire finished its final season, things were very different. It really was a frighteningly accurate mirror of society.

I don't know if it needs to be said now, but I think The Wire has grown exponentially more prophetic, more haunting, more relevant, more... everything. I'm obviously speaking in light of the Covid-19 epidemic, yet it seems not everyone sees any sort of connection; after all, it's not like The Wire ever deals with any literal diseases or sicknesses, and it's not as if they have a season devoted to the dysfunctionality in the health care system in America - it's about other things.

But I honestly do think it is extremely relevant in the midst of this pandemic, and I'd wager most of you folks agree. I mean, this whole ordeal is a massive test of the competence of local., county, and state officials. This is THE BIG ONE. This is putting major pressure on each and every one of the major institutions that he focused on season by season. The cops and the dealers, the blue-collar longshoremen and manual laborers, the goddamn loving politicians and local officials/community pillars, the schools and the children, and finally the *media*.

Each and every one of those institutions/groups of people are going through some seriously intense and dire times. And since we have watched the show, we should have a pretty solid idea of just how dysfunctional they can truly be; not a happy thought.

I think the only ones who are truly thriving and doing better in the face of covid-19 have GOT to be the drug dealers - I include legal dispensaries and liquor stores in this category as well, mostly because their presence on the list of "essential businesses" is a little eyebrow-raising to most of straight America, I'd wager. But that is precisely where they belong. By the same token I have NO DOUBT that drug dealers across the country are just doing utterly amazing sales numbers, with everyone sheltering at home and nowhere to go.


edit: Another thing! I read Simon's book Homicide: A Year on the Killing Streets which is... well, you guys probably know drat well all about this book and I don't need to waste time with a summary, right?

It was a really fun, engaging, rewarding read. I can't imagine any fan of David Simon's TV work not voraciously tearing through it. I've never seen the TV show Homicide, and really didn't know much about the real-life Baltimore detectives who served as inspiration for both shows. It was just fascinating to read. And stuff definitely does come up - at one point one of the more interesting detectives tells the "Snot Boogie" story, and it is very cool to read that (written in 1991) and remember watching the scene it inspired on The Wire for the first time over *15* years ago. And it still rings just as true as ever.

a drat good post

Happy Thread
Jul 9, 2005


Plaster Town Cop

Can't ever make lightning strike twice though

Happy Thread
Jul 9, 2005


Plaster Town Cop

i heard marlo sucks dick

Happy Thread
Jul 9, 2005


Plaster Town Cop

I was so puzzled until I realized that I still need to see the final three episodes

Happy Thread
Jul 9, 2005


Plaster Town Cop

The show explores revolutionary change (hamsterdam) but what it does not explore is total self-collapse of the existing structures, and what comes next

Happy Thread
Jul 9, 2005


Plaster Town Cop

Again, the guy had at least a whole season on the failures of meritocracy and focus-grouped academic approaches to fixing institutions, and the destructive effects of vested interest in individual leaders who have a history of pragmatism. And then he went and endorsed Elizabeth Warren in real life

Happy Thread
Jul 9, 2005


Plaster Town Cop

God Hole posted:

not even the authority of the commanding officers within the department was legitimately challenged much less that of the overarching economic system that is directly antagonistic in nature to the ideals

Good point, it may have been praxis, but it was NOT revolution... in any sense that threatened the actual problem people (Burrell, Rawls, the mayor, all those connected)

And even as just Praxis it may not have been a failure! Did it save more lives than it cost? Who knows if the healthcare workers present were able to offset some harm that might have otherwise happened behind closed doors. And for a time, the city's poor got to breathe without police interruption or territory based violence, which tips the equation even farther.

Happy Thread
Jul 9, 2005


Plaster Town Cop

Laterite posted:

Hamsterdam was just another form of juking the stats

Nah, Bunny had to hide the Hamsterdam stats because once they came out the whole operation was blown. The stats stood out too much in a good way (crime stopped everywhere else).

Happy Thread
Jul 9, 2005


Plaster Town Cop

Yeah if anything he represents all the things liberals do not and cannot understand, namely the dynamics of power, and what you can do with a power differential.

Happy Thread
Jul 9, 2005


Plaster Town Cop

Good comparison.

Happy Thread
Jul 9, 2005


Plaster Town Cop

Yo everyone:

HidingfromGoro is on Twitter, he posts, and Goons by and large haven't found him yet!

https://twitter.com/HidingFromGoro/...745369243066368

That's the goon who told us all how prison works and how hosed up it is!

Follow this dude now! He is the reason that huge swaths of this website turned left back in '06 or so. His writing and activism certainly changed the course of my life.

He's been posting for years and has few followers. What a missed connection the past few years.

Happy Thread
Jul 9, 2005


Plaster Town Cop

Rollie Fingers posted:

I've just completed The Wire. I came into it quite cold - I knew it was critically acclaimed and had almost a religious following, but I knew nothing about it beyond that.

I absolutely adored the first three seasons. Definitely the best TV I've ever watched. Seasons 4 and 5 didn't grab me as much because, IMO, the Stanfield organisation material was far weaker than the Barksdale organisation material and the docks. I get Marlo is meant to personify neoliberalism but he and his terminators kind felt out of place in the show (although the conclusion to their arcs was well written).

D'Angelo was superb all around. His death really rocked me and I wish he was there till the end of the show

I'm definitely watching the show again.

I just finished the final episode too! Finally.

Am I the only one who found Season 5 to be incredibly engrossing material? After hearing people say it was hands down the worst season I was expecting more of a betrayal of previous seasons' values. Especially with the slap on the face of Game of Thrones S8 still being so fresh. I was pleasantly surprised, probably because instead of blind-watching and being confused I had the analyses from this thread to help me understand why each detail was significant. I never felt like any detail was wasting my time.

I didn't even have a problem with Season 5's main complaints. Sure, Gus is an incredibly frustrating character for being so cowardly. But I enjoyed getting a more detailed look at how a news organization works than I ever had. Maybe it wasn't as detailed as the other institutions explored by The Wire, but it still intertwined with the others in cool ways.

I even thought they explained Whiting's motivation just fine in the last scene where Gus just spells it out -- everyone is being cutthroat so they can win an award and bounce to a more prestigious place. Gus and Alma were the opposite way, they saw the value in staying far down the ladder so they didn't have to compromise their principles. Gus utterly failed to back that up and was a pushover, but Alma took it to its natural conclusion and got sent to the boat.

I had read so many spoilers. I even knew a little bit that certain characters became "the new" (insert dead character here). But I had no idea it was going to tie the story up so neatly, by coming around full circle.

People often say the beginning of The Wire is hard to get into because there's no introduction, no protagonist who is new to the force; you just get dropped right into a system where everybody already knows dozens of other characters, and you're expected to keep up. Sink or swim. Well, the ending of The Wire kind of answers the question that was left hanging open -- how did all these characters get here? We get to see that. It's like Bubbles has a complete backstory now that he didn't have a few minutes before the ending. Same for a couple others.

Sydnor becoming the new McNulty was a breathtaking moment because he cannot possibly know how incredibly hosed he is. We had some sense throughout Season 1 that McNulty, when he approached Judge Phelan, had walked into a web of lies bigger than he was, but no perspective for HOW big. By the end of Season 5, though, we see HOW big the serial killer story blew up. How many people lied or compromised their values to save their career from it. Once that happened, there is no fixing the system, but.... if you only see the tip of the iceberg like McNulty or Sydnor did, it appears to them that they can right the wrongs just by taking out one bad actor who's ruining everything. Nope, everybody around you got to where they are on a lie. A lie that involved all sorts of players that the MCE never even knew about, the Narese Campbells and Rupert Bonds of the world. A lie like telling the entire state of Maryland they found the real serial killer, which accepted it and moved on.

The whole world is built out of thousands of clever lies constructed by people who came before us. We arrived at the party too late to do anything but try to forensically reconstruct any semblance of objective reality from it. We try to guess how our institutions came to be this way but we only get to untangle a couple of the lies; we'll never have the whole story. Or if we don't try at all, like most people we simply resign to live in total confusion at most everything.

Happy Thread
Jul 9, 2005


Plaster Town Cop

For me, Season 5 was as engaging as 4. Just peak television. Season 2 was actually the one that, after finishing it, made me delay watching any more for several years. I did not like the jarring transition, throwing out so much labor in getting to know so many compelling characters. I shared the common frustration that this deep look into the lives and issues of black people caught in the system was suddenly about something else.

But until I came back to the show, little did I know that everyone from Season 1 would matter again and future seasons would return to emphasis on the drug trade. By mid season 3 I was committed to finish. I started reading these summaries. I eventually understood the ambitious goal of showing institutional rot the show was going for.

I can't wait to do a first rewatch and see the earlier parts of Season 3 and early Marlo stuff. It's going to go by so much faster the second time, now that I've already read this thread's summaries, which easily take as long to process as the episodes themselves.

Happy Thread
Jul 9, 2005


Plaster Town Cop

Of course, not all of Season 5 was peak television. Maybe it's more the part that I just watched. For example, there was a definite worst episode: The one where Prop Joe meets his end.

I had company over and decided to blind-watch that episode with them for my first time too. That kept me thinking about what kind of experience the episode was creating for a newcomer out of context. Would it have looked interesting even if she had no idea what was going on?

Holy hell, that episode did the show no favors as an introduction to The Wire. Every scene of that would have been rendered completely incomprehensibly boring. It would have looked like a bunch of people going to work, doing work stuff, and talking in work jargon. Overly incremental movements to the plot and too many shifts back and forth. There was not a single scene that stood compellingly on its own outside of tons of context from other episodes. The dependence on context was total. Like it was the opposite of a bottle episode.

Happy Thread
Jul 9, 2005


Plaster Town Cop

Just read this and thought of the show

Reinventing Collapse by Dmitry Orlov posted:




The purpose of all our awful institutions is to institutionalize you

Happy Thread
Jul 9, 2005


Plaster Town Cop

Yeah, if Clay Davis had really been assassinated, every single official and staffer who's ever come near the Mayor's office would assume that they're next and that crime has gotten WAY too out of control in Baltimore to the point that it's even likely to touch them. It doesn't matter if they all secretly had knives out for Clay Davis, he was one of them and the ruling class has solidarity.

Not just Baltimore's politics but the national media would have looked at Baltimore as some kind of third world hellhole where drug gangs are so out of control that even State Senators are getting assassinated. Whatever political pressure wasn't there to end the gangs before, will be there now. With that, the entire weight of the feds would come crushing down on Avon's little operation; the whole thing would get scooped up and torn apart looking for whoever killed Clay Davis, because suddenly they'd care. Much like shooting Kima made the cops suddenly care and show some solidarity for the first time in the series.

Outmaneuvering that many investigators would not be an option. Nor would continuing to exist and thrive in Baltimore in a little symbiotic relationship with the "dope on the table" police theatrics and Levy and greasing all the right neighborhood pockets like was possible for the gangs previously. Avon was savvy enough to spot the problem of power immediately and laugh at the idea.

Happy Thread fucked around with this message at 23:34 on Sep 10, 2020

Happy Thread
Jul 9, 2005


Plaster Town Cop

The police are the most effective gang so long as they're the ones white people feel good enough about to pick up the phone and tip off about anything unusual happening. Having eyes and ears through the entire non-involved population would be a huge advantage versus a large organization that can't get any Intel from the citizens.

For that same reason I think Omar always had an advantage over Marlo. People would reach out to him if there was danger because he had that trusted Robin hood reputation, which isn't nearly as good as having a formal police dispatch answering phones, but it's still something. Meanwhile Marlo attacked the public and sought only to be feared by them; he didn't bother treating the public any differently than a rival gang or an extraneous underling.

They say that when cities devolve into chaos, when warlords start popping up for lack of any working power structure, the gangs that are doomed long term are the ones that attacked civilians. Once the public turns on you you're done. I don't think Marlo would have been any exception to that. Even in a world without police, the public are going to turn to someone like Omar and feed him intel before they give Marlo any.

Happy Thread
Jul 9, 2005


Plaster Town Cop

escape artist posted:

like when Marlo gave away money to all the kids?

I saw it argued earlier in here that that was more of a flex. Beyond that I think of it as a way of cheaply buying the complicity of the public -- since anyone who accepted the money was no longer on any moral high ground to complain about him. He made this motive clear by insisting on everyone being handed the money one by one while loudly acknowledging the money came from Marlo.

Or, it forced people like Michael to openly reject Marlo's money in public and make their opposition known. Come to think of it I think the previous poster mentioned Marlo's true goal at the time was to root out locals working against him, right? Marlo only spared Michael because he saw a potential soldier.

When Omar gives money away, I picture it being more of a personal act where people come to him in need directly, not some mass publicity stunt.

Happy Thread fucked around with this message at 02:21 on Sep 14, 2020

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Happy Thread
Jul 9, 2005


Plaster Town Cop

thankfully with Daniels' dirt Nareese Campbell and Burrell kind of forgot about it, Danaerys style, allowing Daniels to go rogue and turn everyone in at the show's finale

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