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LloydDobler
Oct 15, 2005

You shared it with a dick.

MrSlam posted:

This is my third rewatching of the show and this thread is incredibly insightful. I just finished with the second season last night

It seems to me like Proposition Joe was how Stringer ultimately wanted to operate. No miss or fuss, just business. But what was his ultimate failing? He wasn't stupid. You can't run as a number two (and sometimes number one) to a drug empire like theirs and not be smart. I don't think it was even that he was greedy, though he was certainly that.

Most of the gangsters from their line of work look at society with disdain, but he looked at it with admiration. My perception is that gangsters see their culture as naturally superior, but the criminals who hate what they do never make it. D'Angelo wanted to breathe; Frank Sobotka turned a blind eye to what he did only because he loved his people more; and Stringer wants so desperately to be above who he was born as that it blinds him. To be a businessman you need to be fierce, but to be a gangster you need to be loyal to your brothers in arms. If you can't be loyal then you'll either end up dead or as a states witness. If Stringer has a fault, its not that he's an idiot who parrots back what he heard at his community college to gangbangers, it's that he can't forgive himself for the original sin of being born in The Game.

This is an excellent post, but it also is leaving out that the "real gangsters" of big business and politics run in a different league entirely. The power is obtained in a completely different way, and the game is played with lies, favors and blackmail rather than violence. Stringer is like that guy who is the best basketball player in his college, but his college is actually way more sheltered and small-time than he or anyone he knows imagined. So the first time he steps onto a pro court he just gets walked. Then when he goes back home everyone there thinks they're world class, but he knows better and is completely disillusioned by it. In the end he returns to what he knows because he realizes just how small-time he is and has no idea how to break in to the other world.

He's actually Bubbles in that world. The junkie who found a stash and tries to turn it into a big score, and he gets taken advantage of in the exact same way, someone with more power just takes his poo poo away, and he has no choice but to eat it.

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LloydDobler
Oct 15, 2005

You shared it with a dick.

ChikoDemono posted:

It seems to me more like Slim, Wee-Bay, Chris all knew what they were doing was some evil poo poo and accepted it as a job. They are killers and they make no qualms about it.

Snoop, who may be a part of the newer generation, didn't see it as such. She doesn't empathize like the others do. She doesn't see a problem with killing. Hell, if given the word, she would probably try to murder Clay Davis. She wouldn't see the difference in murder and assassination.

Remember that scene when she and Chris were hiding out from Omar? Chris is distraught, worried about his family. Snoop didn't understand why Chris was so upset and mentioned that they should bring gifts to his kids. Chris had to explain why he couldn't see his family.

Edit: also, Chris beat Bug's dad to death, not Dukie's

On this subject, one of the best things about seasons 4 and 5 is the development of Mike, the kid that Chris mentors into a sociopath. He's always so outside of the other kids, not much talk and all action. He's a defender of the people close to him but ruthless and fearless to anyone else. I always thought of him as a concurrent Chris backstory, and they really connect it with the beating of Bug's dad.

LloydDobler
Oct 15, 2005

You shared it with a dick.

I love Prez's character arc which is why season 4 is my favorite. I think he really redeems himself as a human being.

LloydDobler
Oct 15, 2005

You shared it with a dick.

Oh god dammit if they release it on Blu Ray I'm going to be pissed. I went ahead and bought it on DVD believing that there would never be an HD release.

LloydDobler
Oct 15, 2005

You shared it with a dick.

grading essays nude posted:

And yet Stringer somehow thought, despite lording over other people with his "business knowledge" on the street, that the actual business world worked like the street and he could bribe and threaten and manipulate his way in.

Actually I took that whole cycle the opposite way, his downfall was that he thought it didn't work like the drug world. He wanted to go legit, so he took all his drug money and invested it, only to find that the "real world" was just as corrupt and cruel as the drug world. And to make matters worse, in this world he was the junkie who was losing all his money to the people who knew how to play the game.

Instead of "Yes good sir, welcome to the legal and legitimate business world where you will see a decent return on your sizeable investment with minimal risk" he got "haha watch me soak this green motherfucker for every penny he's got."

LloydDobler
Oct 15, 2005

You shared it with a dick.

grilldos posted:

Specifically that mentality is related to blue collar unions, and definitely still exists. Season 2 is probably a very eye-opening and strange thing for people who've always lived in Right To Work states.

Absolutely true. I remember one of my first visits to a union shop, where we were training the union machinists how to set up and run a machine, and we had to stand around and wait 45 minutes for someone from the electrician's union to bring us a god drat extension cord and plug it in for us.

Or last year at a trade show where the convention center was union controlled, and we weren't allowed to set up our own booth without at least one union worker there to participate. With a mandatory charge of $125 an hour, 2 hours minimum. To be fair though, the worker absolutely busted rear end with exactly zero loving around. She was a genuine help.

But yeah, union rules and behavior are weird if you come from out west.

LloydDobler
Oct 15, 2005

You shared it with a dick.

Aaaand the blu-ray box set is down to $110 pre-order on Amazon today. I'm thinking it's not going to drop much below that, at least until another year or so goes by. It's low enough to convince me to pre-order anyway.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00UCOXZLU/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

LloydDobler
Oct 15, 2005

You shared it with a dick.

POLICE CAR AUCTION posted:

Any word on the bluray rerelease? Google doesn't say poo poo and amazon has it on sale for $86. Been holding off a rewatch since the dvd video quality sucks so badly.

I bought it but haven't watched it yet, but every review I read says it's worth every penny. And my coworker who is a total video/audio quality snob said it's outstanding.

LloydDobler
Oct 15, 2005

You shared it with a dick.

Der Kyhe posted:

Well obviously not "stupid stupid" but still, less intelligent and cunning than what he lead himself to believe, and that basically caused everything that happened (or almost happened) to him.

Anyway, I completely agree with your take, since he almost immediately ran out of "businessman options", he switched back to street mentality.

The word you're looking for is naïve. He was a total newbie to that world of power and while he wanted to be a player, he was just a sucker to the real power people like Clay Davis. On the street people sneak up on you with a gun. In that world they gently caress you over looking you right in the eye with a handshake and a great big smile.

LloydDobler
Oct 15, 2005

You shared it with a dick.

Yeah S4 is my favorite, I'm still savoring S3 too, finished it for the fourth time last week.

LloydDobler
Oct 15, 2005

You shared it with a dick.

empty baggie posted:

Ha! Omar is in "the night of". Got a mini Wire reunion started.


My daughter and I just finished season 4 of the Wire, and are re-watching season 5 of the Walking Dead, and we are having fun yelling at Cutty, D'Angelo, and Carver since they're all on screen at the same time a lot.

LloydDobler
Oct 15, 2005

You shared it with a dick.

After my last re-watch I have to say this is a strong loving show all the way through, and while I like season 4 best, it's just because I like it, not because it's actually better than any other. All 5 seasons of this show hold up on their own, it's just that you have to get used to the show veering in different directions each season. Once you get over that, every season is fantastic. And as has been said over and over in this thread, even if there is a worst season or episode of the wire, it's still head and shoulders better than 99% of the rest of TV, past or present. Period.

LloydDobler
Oct 15, 2005

You shared it with a dick.

Yeah, I think it's time for us to re-watch this as well. (mild spoilers for anyone who hasn't seen the show).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWmryAVUoL8

Funny or Die is hit and miss to me but this is pure gold.

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LloydDobler
Oct 15, 2005

You shared it with a dick.

Just finished my 6th or 7th rewatch tonight, and god drat this show really rewards you. I still caught stuff I never noticed before. I also read the wiki and looked up all the real people they used as actors and based characters on. The embarassing part is the one actor who I thought was obviously a real life cop because of how bad an actor he is was Coliccio, except he was a Marine who went to Vassar and has like writing awards and poo poo. Norris, the bald detective is kind of the real life Rawls and he just plays a detective using his real name. And Lt. Mello is the real life Jay Landsman. Also the actor who plays Deacon is the real life Avon Barksdale, who Ed Burns arrested and David Simon wrote about a couple decades earlier.

Season 5 is not bad and totally holds its own.

Every time Kenard comes on screen my daughter and I both go "fuckin' Kenard" because we know his arc and how he does Omar dirty. He's such a poo poo. Scary though, natural gangster.

Donut is my favorite non-main character.

A page or two ago you all were talking about when the show clicked, I thought it was later but it was episode 3 for me too. The first time I watched it I wasn't getting it until out of nowhere Freamon just walks out and comes back with the first photo of Avon Barksdale. I was all the way in after that moment.

Breaking Bad is the best show I've ever seen, except maybe The Wire.

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