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Thaddius the Large
Jul 5, 2006

It's in the five-hole!


It's been ages since I've watched that episode, but does anything happen to Marlo prior to the store scene that might trigger his insecurity, and make him abuse the guard like that? Your calling it a petty act definitely resonated, it was so ridiculous it almost feels like he was trying to get the guy to call him out, so Marlo could make a point. Or I guess he was just always that in need of validation, and there isn't an immediate antecedent?

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Thaddius the Large
Jul 5, 2006

It's in the five-hole!


The Rooster posted:

He got cleaned out in poker.

Ah, poo poo yeah that'd do it.

Thaddius the Large
Jul 5, 2006

It's in the five-hole!


Spoilers Below posted:

A depressing amount of gallows humor is almost a requirement for jobs like these. You'll find a similar thing among EMTs, emergency room workers, firefighters, and even some social service workers (only when their clients aren't around, of course). Being confronted with how horrible human beings are to one another on a daily basis, sometimes you have to laugh to keep from crying. Doesn't make it right, but it's a reason.

A friend of mine who's a sheriff once, while meeting for breakfast, told me about how happy he was that a body they'd found that morning turned out to be a suicide. He laughed off the deteriorated condition of the body in the river, and seemed happy that he didn't have yet another case to investigate. It gave him the rest of the day off to spend with his kid. I've known him for a long while now, and I'm positive he isn't happy that someone is dead, or that someone led a life that caused them to commit suicide. But at the same time, I can see why he doesn't let himself get too emotionally invested in every case. He gets dead bodies on a weekly basis, and domestic and drug cases even more often than that. No way could he get through the day thinking through the consequences of every case. Again, doesn't make it right. He'd never do it in front of the guy's widow. But since his life is more than just his job, he doesn't bring it home. He laughs it off and lives his life.

Fully agree, I work with SED diagnosed (Serious Emotional Disturbance) low income kids, and while we're all very passionate about our kids and the work we do, you also have to learn to laugh at some pretty hosed up stuff, or it'll eat you alive. Some of it is run of the mill mental health work, having to restrain a kid while he's trying to smear feces on you, then approaching him the next day with a big smile and ready to start anew. Others are the really soul-crushing cases, I had one girl who was sexually abused by multiple family members for years, all of which was video taped and sold for drugs; she was finally removed at age 11, but her dad got off on a technicality, and now that she's 18 she's perfectly up front about her intent to go back and live with him, because she was so conditioned she doesn't see anything wrong with what he did. And yet now I don't bat an eye at any horrible jokes on that front, possibly because I'm desensitized/a horrible human being, but also I accept that while of course I never want bad things to happen to kids, I have to be able to embrace that side of things, otherwise it just gets too grim. I found the squad's reaction fairly ironic, but neither surprising not out of place.

Thaddius the Large
Jul 5, 2006

It's in the five-hole!


It's funny, I never got the feeling that when Carcetti and Burrell were having their drink Carcetti was lying about his kid having a game. My take was that he really doesn't care about the score, or how anyone is doing at anything, unless it directly involves him; his is the only score that matters. Burrell's look is him recognizing this, and that not only does Carcetti not care about Burrell, he doesn't give a poo poo about his own kid unless it's furthering his own agenda.

Thaddius the Large
Jul 5, 2006

It's in the five-hole!


Meltathon posted:

I'm watching this with my girlfriend and it's her first time through. Luckily though she's already up to mid season 5, but it's hard because she is a little confused on what McNulty and Freamon are doing (although I was too the first time through), and she really wants Omar to get Marlo and I just have to bite my tongue.

I could deal with the newspaper storyline and McNulty's shenanigans, but it always felt way out of character to me to have Freamon go along with his scheme, and so willingly to boot. I know he was plenty dedicated to doing real police work over politics, but the whole fake killer didn't seem to be "making the case that's there" as he said before. Admittedly it's been about 3 years since my last season 5 watch, is it better addressed than my memory attests?

Thaddius the Large
Jul 5, 2006

It's in the five-hole!


Absolutely love that scene between Cutty and his grandmother, for some reason it really stuck with me as just a sweet, simple, and honest exchange. Some times a man's just gotta look good and feel $20 in his pocket.

Thaddius the Large
Jul 5, 2006

It's in the five-hole!


I would also argue Avon has absolutely no problem with people who walk a different path than himself, so long as they own it. Look at his interaction with the basketball ref a few seasons back, he wasn't actually so concerned about a bad call as the guy's unwillingness to stand for what he believed, even if it wasn't to Avon's favor. Even in the previous episode, he didn't want to be given a favorable report from Slim, he wants the unfiltered truth. Cutty was willing to say his piece and back it, which Avon respects.

Thaddius the Large
Jul 5, 2006

It's in the five-hole!


Luminous Obscurity posted:

Cutty going back to ask Avon for money is another amazing scene. It's such a diversion from other shows/movies where it would get held over his head or they would just kill/hurt him for asking.

I love how Avon is almost incredulous at the amount, like he expected Cutty to request millions.

Thaddius the Large
Jul 5, 2006

It's in the five-hole!


It also helps he's been there since the beginning. Slim Charles and Bodie were the last vestiges of the Barksdale Empire; though Poot is also around, after season 1 he was never so much in focus as Bodie. Career choice aside, it's hard to watch a community staple be put down like that.

Thaddius the Large
Jul 5, 2006

It's in the five-hole!


Skeesix posted:

As far as Carver, I think he should have put up more of a fight about adopting Randy. At least filled out some paperwork. At the end of the day the only thing Carver did wrong with Randy was to trust Herc. Given where they were at the beginning, this was a reasonable thing for Carver to do, but Carver still bears responsibility. And any sliver of responsibility for something as awful as what happened to Randy's foster parents is huge. Plus I think that of all the boys, Randy could have most benefited from a good situation.

This is definitely more my arena, and while I don't know the procedures for Maryland, it's honestly not difficult at all to work around the foster system long enough to get certified as a foster parent, adoption is more difficult but still doable, it just takes time. What Carver could have pretty easily done is just shelter Randy as a runaway from the group home, nothing would have stopped Randy from walking out the front door of that place, and no DHS agent would be so picky as to object. We pretty routinely have kids running away from their foster placement and staying with relatives/friends/girlfriends who aren't certified or their legal placement, and our first criteria is that the kid has a safe place to go; besides, what's the benefit in having the police drag the kid back when they can jus run off again, causing further bad interactions between the kid and the system, and damage your relationship with them in the process? Once the kid is safe, fed, has a place to go, and is making an effort to go to school and court and whatnot, then DHS is willing to fight the battle of where the kid is "supposed" to be living. That Carver is caring, involved, and a police officer would just be an added bonus. Now, whether Randy would be willing to go and stay with Carver is a bit more up in the air given their damaged relationship and his recent trauma, but that's kind of a moot point I suppose.

As for the actual foster certification process, it's not too bad either, for us it's a matter of weeks for most homes, especially given that the state has a vested interest in seeing kids placed with relatives or other caring, familiar adults, rather than with a strange foster parent or facility; this is doubly so with Carver as he likely makes enough that he wouldn't qualify for the bigger foster stipends, so he'd be cheaper than a foster home, and we all know how big a bonus that is for the state. Adoption is another matter, it requires quite a bit of legal work and time, but remember that the state is Randy's current guardian, so their people would be taking care of much of it, not Carver, and they'd be all for getting a kid out of the foster system, both so they didn't have to pay for his placement, and so they get a kid off their caseload.

TLDR: that issue I suspect is more a dramatic decision than one grounded in reality, but this bears the caveat I haven't worked in Maryland, and their laws/regulations/processes may be different.

Thaddius the Large
Jul 5, 2006

It's in the five-hole!


Cervixalot posted:

Loving 'Difficult Men,' thanks to whoever recommended it earlier in the thread!

Just finished the section on the Wire, and it was really great- though pretty hilarious to hear that John C. Reilly was an favorite to play McNulty at one point :lol:

Man, he's very talented and capable and all, but the way his career has developed makes it seem like McNulty would have been a MUCH different character.

Thaddius the Large
Jul 5, 2006

It's in the five-hole!


I wonder if he has much of a parallel on the other side. Volcheck maybe?

Thaddius the Large
Jul 5, 2006

It's in the five-hole!


Ainsley McTree posted:

I didn't mean it in a mean way (towards you or the other posters talking about him)! I was just noting that it's interesting how a straight-up murderer can come across as a "good guy" depending on your perspective.

Easy to respect him for sticking to a code, man's gotta have a code.

Thaddius the Large
Jul 5, 2006

It's in the five-hole!



I absolutely agree with you on season 5, but I had no issues feeling it was repetitive prior to that. I think a big part was that they tried to sell the idea of progress, especially thanks to Carcetti, Colvin, and the Coop, and I really did hope along with the characters for a new day; sure it all goes to poo poo, but up through season 4 I think I avoided complete and utter cynicism and hopelessness.

Thaddius the Large
Jul 5, 2006

It's in the five-hole!


Sneaky Fast posted:

I think one of the things lost in the criticisms of season 5, was how powerful and interesting bubbles finally reforming himself was. I may be in the minority but I liked season 5, though almost solely based on that characters arc.

E: the final montage was great as well

It definitely has it's moments, Bubbles' arc wound up finally having some real happiness, and the montage is one of my favorites. The ending may have been bittersweet, but I feel like lots of characters wind up in better places, off the top of my head Daniels, Kima, Rhonda, and Carver seem to grow and find a good niche, and I'd expect Freeman does just fine for himself.

Thaddius the Large
Jul 5, 2006

It's in the five-hole!


Atlas Hugged posted:

It just annoys me that McNulty basically went through the same arc twice with the only difference being that he can't even be a beat cop after what he pulled in season 5.

I figured he just went through a relapse, his behavior certainly out him in line with addicts throughout the show, and relapse is a major part of the stages of change.

Thaddius the Large
Jul 5, 2006

It's in the five-hole!


Ainsley McTree posted:

Eh. I'm not saying he'd be bad, but between The Wire and Luther I know Idris Elba from too much other stuff to think of him as Bond. I'd rather see someone who's not already so iconic in my brain (which I guess I'm using as a eupemism for "typecast", not that that's fair to Idris Elba).

edit: but yeah, I'd love a black Bond if for no other reason than to drive racists crazy. Let's make him bisexual or something too, that should be even more fun.

Just make a prequel to Skyfall with Javier Bordem's character as a Bond, say that MI5 passed his name along to Craig's character when Bordem's went rogue and we're in business.

Thaddius the Large
Jul 5, 2006

It's in the five-hole!


wormil posted:

His love for Avon. Had Stringer killed Avon straight out of prison, before Avon had time to reestablish himself, Stringer would have been fine.

edit, Stringer and Avon always had different goals but both shared the same source of income and were subject to the same risks. To Avon it was more about reputation and territory, Stringer just wanted the money.

Eh, seems to me Stringer would've been eaten one way or another, either due to past sins while Avon was locked up (the affair with Brother and Omar), by Marlo and Stringer's utter mishandling thereof (it was Prop Joe who got Marlo to join the Coop, and that didn't even go well), or by Clay Davis and his like. Stringer just set his goals too high, and got burned accordingly.

Thaddius the Large
Jul 5, 2006

It's in the five-hole!


wormil posted:

The Wire is above cosmic justice for the most part. Bad things happen to people because of their own fallibility or sometimes because of bad circumstance, not because of past sins. Marlo was the most evil character in the series and walks away rich and free. Stringer's fate was tied to Avon from the beginning but his love for Avon was his Achilles's Heel and vice versa. Omar was the only character I can think of who was really punished. A man can only live that life by never letting his guard down and yet he allowed someone to walk up behind him while he was on the hunt. It could be argued that he fell victim to his own legend, or perhaps was worn down from injury, that maybe his few months off in the islands softened his edge, and all those things might be true but in the end it felt very much like justice or karma.

Very true, I didn't mean to imply a greater message in referring to Stringer's sins, I just meant his past actions were one of many pieces that showed he wasn't ever going to succeed long term.

Thaddius the Large
Jul 5, 2006

It's in the five-hole!


Finndo posted:

Hamsterdam was a form of surrender, too. It was not just recognition that the current system wasn't working, but also based on a sense that it was the only viable alternative to street rips. From the standpoint of what Colvin had control over, this is probably true, but from a larger standpoint, my own view is that it is completely false.

In the early 1980s, walking around most parts of Baltimore and New York were equally scary. By the early 2000's, most of Manhattan had become almost like Disneyland, while much of Baltimore is still pretty dangerous. People may debate why, but I personally think the predominant reason is the "no broken windows" approach taken by Giuliani, which is pretty much the polar opposite of the approach taken by Colvin.

By the way, one has to wonder: if the police could bring enough heat on the corners to force the trafficking to Hamsterdam, why couldn't they do the same thing to simply force it off the streets? There may be a reason, but it wasn't really adequately explained in the show, I don't think.

I'm wholly ignorant, but I think I remember hearing sociologists are pretty down on Broken Windows as being ineffective, and that NYC's recovery was due to a multitude of other factors. I could be getting that backwards, though

Thaddius the Large
Jul 5, 2006

It's in the five-hole!


The other thing to bear in mind about Prez being told not to get too attached, it's also not healthy for the kids if he gets too attached to them; that is, if he sets himself up as the biggest support in their lives, what happens when they're promoted out of his class and they no longer have access to him? That kind of loss can be hugely traumatic and destabilizing for kids who already struggle to form safe and appropriate attachment to adult figures, often it's much better that all adults stay within the defined role of their job to avoid further hurting the kids. In my work we're taught to do that specifically because we're intended as temporary figures in their lives, and that it's better we teach them to thrive (as best we can) using the existing supports in their lives, because a transitory figure won't serve as a support nearly as well as a permanent one, even if the permanent figure is less "preferable". Whether it's the best approach is certainly debatable, but I can at least attest I've seen situations where kids become hugely bonded to a temporary adult figure, and it's been to the kid's overall detriment. It's an policy where, appropriately enough in the context of this discussion as something brought up by the Wire, while there are strong arguments to be made for and against it, the answer is probably a murky, gray area in the middle.

Thaddius the Large
Jul 5, 2006

It's in the five-hole!


Rupert Buttermilk posted:

Does anyone else come in here and complain about how this show has ruined other shows? I guess it can be argued that they had it coming, but now EVERYTHING sounds fake and acted.

Edit: Oh, and don't forget "plots twisting for convenience-sake".

Depends on what you enjoy, the Shield is just as fun for me as the Wire (fun being used in a very loose sense), just for different reasons, I'm not expecting lifelike dialogue or wholly realistic narratives/plot, I'm expecting Vic Mackey to bust some heads, be a terrible person, and do crazy poo poo to stay out of trouble.

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Thaddius the Large
Jul 5, 2006

It's in the five-hole!


Soylent Pudding posted:

What most amused me about String in community college is that to everyone else there he's just another random non-traditional student. None of them knew the guy on their group project was one of West Balitmore's most wanted drug dealers.

Community: Season 7?

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