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Sherringford posted:Huh, I hadn't noticed that nobody had heard his body drop, nice catch. The best explanation I can think of for people not hearing that is that his body didn't drop at all. If he was hiding under the table and then got stabbed, I think that would clear up the issues you mentioned. It would explain how the body got there without any apparent blood on the floor and why nobody heard his body drop. If he was already hiding under the table to start with, it might also be possible that the criminal only got his hand/sleeve covered in blood if he was lucky enough with the angle of the stabbing and then just cleaned that off with a napkin or something. It wouldn't be as much blood as he would have gotten on him if Togami was stabbed while standing in front of him, at least. One of the big questions is whether the knife or the skewer was the murder weapon. But given the reasonable claim that Togami was killed under the table, the bigger question is why he was under there to begin with! Either the murderer, when setting up the murder, had some reason to presuppose that Togami would crawl under that table when the lights went out, or the murderer did something to provoke someone to crawl under the table. Let's take these in order: 1. Why would Togami crawl under the table? To get the knife he had hidden under there? That makes very little sense, as Togami had an unopened box large enough to conceal a knife. Just put the knife in that box and draw it when you need it! Hiding a knife under the table simply increases the odds that you're arming someone else, and Togami has been established pretty clearly as massively paranoid. The only reason I can think of for him to crawl under the table is to hide, perhaps to observe using the night vision goggles. But a murderer would not only have to know he was planning to hide under a table for some reason, but also know that this table's the one he would pick! If the knife's the murder weapon, the murderer got really lucky that Togami planned to crawl under this table. If it's the skewer, especially from beneath the floor, then the other tables are covered by carpet from beneath and there'd be no way to tell that Togami was hiding under one of them, so again, it's really lucky he picked this one. For a careful premeditated murder, I don't buy either scenario. (There's another option I offer below, though.) 2. What could a murderer do to convince Togami (or someone) to crawl under a specific table? I'm thinking that hiding a knife that glows in the dark under there might be sufficient. Whether the murderer has the skewer and is underneath the floor or has the skewer and is in the room, brushing aside the tablecloth should attract someone's attention to the flicker of light. Suppose Togami crawled underneath to investigate? He peels off the tape, perhaps unrolls that green material, revealing the knife. Then he's killed with the skewer. We'd have to account for the blood being on the knife blade but not covering the green glow-stuff on the handle, but that seems manageable. If you look at the splash pattern on the floor, the blood on the knife seems to fit. I don't see how you slit Togami's throat with a knife that short without getting blood on you. It is remotely possible that Togami was still alive when the other students realized he was missing, though. If he had some other specific reason for hiding under the table, he could have remained there to see what happened next. Akane could be a suspect in that instance, although we'd have to account for her possession of a skewer and I don't find that plausible. It's also possible someone with the skewer under the floor could have stabbed Togami at that point. Doing so would require knowing a way under the floor, though, and we still have to account for the presence of that knife. I'm hard-pressed to find an explanation for the knife, murder-weapon or not, being taped under the table and deliberately made to glow in the dark (assuming we get confirmation of that) unless it was meant to draw someone's attention. And if it's a distraction, it's an unlikely murder weapon. Unless Togami was setting some sort of elaborate trap to smoke out a murderer and then fell into it himself, this looks like a set up to create a victim, and that makes Nagito seem the most likely suspect, especially if the actual weapon is a skewer-through-the-floor. Nagito had the best opportunity to conceal (or create and conceal) a way under the floorboards, placed the tables in their spots and had time to retrieve a knife and tape it underneath.
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Feb 21, 2013 22:22
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Armanky posted:I think we both came up with the same theory just now, unless you were going off of my suggestion. Suddenly this sounds extremely plausible. I don't think Kuzuryuu did it, because I'm 90% sure the person that was and still is in the bathroom is Pekoyama. She has been out of sight since the start of the party and is still missing. She couldn't have left because Nanami was guarding the door and every room other than the bathroom has been searched. I can't think of any other plausible explanation than Peko being in the bathroom. With that in mind, my guess is that either Hanamura or Nagito drugged her food with laxatives to force her use the bathroom so that the lights could be turned off.
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Feb 21, 2013 22:27
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Togami is under the table because he moved his own corpse, in a final act of defiance against too-easy murder mysteries. The killer needn't have known Togami was there specifically; any victim will do. If they were lurking under the building the whole time, they could have seen through the floorboards and known when the lights went out. Since the lights were out for several minutes and they can see up through the cracks, they could move around looking for somebody. All they'd need is a set of night vision goggles of their own. I think that two sets of night vision goggles would be a bit confusing for the first case of the game, though, so maybe I'm on the wrong track.
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Feb 21, 2013 22:35
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*adjusts moustaches* From what has already been revealed, I see a few points that I don't think have been raised yet. Point 1: Nobody who has a pair of night-vision goggles would need to use glow-in-the-dark tape. Since the goggles are certainly Togami's (how else could he have spotted a suspicious person with the lights out?) the knife can't be his. Point 2: Togami was stabbed while he was under the table. There's no way anyone could have moved him there after the fact - you can't drag a heavy object over a rug (it bunches up) and rolling him would have left a blood trail. Point 3: Combining points 1 and 2, Togami crawled under the table of his own volition, and not because he was trying to retrieve the knife. The only reason I can imagine is that he was chasing someone else. Bongo Bill posted:Since the lights were out for several minutes and they can see up through the cracks, they could move around looking for somebody. You can't fatally stab someone from below unless they're lying down, or at least sitting on the floor. If Togami got stabbed by someone lurking underneath the cabin, it had to have been an opportunistic murder.
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Feb 21, 2013 22:45
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Meeks Sisu posted:I don't think Kuzuryuu did it, because I'm 90% sure the person that was and still is in the bathroom is Pekoyama. She has been out of sight since the start of the party and is still missing. She couldn't have left because Nanami was guarding the door and every room other than the bathroom has been searched. I can't think of any other plausible explanation than Peko being in the bathroom. Well, I'm interpreting Nidai's statement that the washroom has been locked the entire time literally and think we've seen Peko at some point after we have reason to believe the washroom is already locked. But I do think there is the possibility that she didn't leave the building and isn't hiding in the washroom, because there's one place one of the students could have hidden that's not in the hall or any of the secondary rooms that anyone checked: the front desk. You can see it to the right in the screenshot that shows the hotel map layout. I was wondering why there was a green "walkable" rectangle labelled "front" on the map that seems cut off from the player, but since that's where the player is standing in that screenshot you can see that there seems to be a waist-high counter there. I don't know how relevant it might be since it doesn't seem to be an examinable thing, or else I'd think oren would have examined it to show us. But I think it's still logically possible that someone could have been in the hallways the entire time and we haven't seen them yet. edit:  On the right there. Could someone have been hidden behind that counter? Falls Down Stairs fucked around with this message at 22:56 on Feb 21, 2013 |
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Feb 21, 2013 22:48
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Meeks Sisu posted:I'm going to revise my earlier theory because it didn't account for the missing skewer. I still think Hanamura was the culprit, but I also think that Nagito attempted and failed to murder someone. Nagito planted the knife under the table with glow-in-the-dark tape while he was cleaning the lodge, with the intention of stabbing someone once the lights went out. Hanamura was also in the lodge and saw Nagito placing the knife there. He came up with a plan to hide under the floorboards, wait until Nagito went for the knife and then stab him with the skewer. But Hanamura is accounted for he was speaking the dark about the blackout not only being in the kitchen. Meaning it that short time frame he would not have had the time get under the floor. Personly think Kurzuryuu was in the bathroom and waiting for the black out with the skewer. Then Once the black out happened ran out and stabbed Togami when he went under the table and ran back into the bathroom.
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Feb 21, 2013 22:48
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I'm finding the proximity of the bathroom to the office to be awfully suspicious. Suppose there is some way (hole in the wall) for someone in the bathroom to reach the breaker. Killer hits the lights, exits bathroom, finds Togami and murders him. Then killer returns to bathroom and turns on lights. I don't think we should assume that just because the bathroom was locked every time Coach checked it, that if someone was in there, it was the same person the whole time. Although game logic (and simplicity of assumption) kind of suggests it. That also points to Kuzuryuu. I think the guarding of the circuit breakers are an important sequence. From this update: Togami says the dangerous items need to be kept safe. Sonia says to put them in the storage room. Togami says that isn't safe enough. Peko volunteers to stand guard with it. Nagito says not to use the storage room, because it's dark and icky. Togami suggests the office (and also mentions the breakers). Nagito says the office 'would be great'. If Nagito had a plan to turn the lights out he may have been pushing to get Peko in the office so she'd be suspected. There are no other places to store it aside from the kitchen and bathroom. Speculatively, Nagito may know how to lock the bathroom externally (found a key while cleaning) and figured Hanamura would want the kitchen free to work in.
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Feb 21, 2013 22:52
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Meeks Sisu posted:I don't think Kuzuryuu did it, because I'm 90% sure the person that was and still is in the bathroom is Pekoyama. She has been out of sight since the start of the party and is still missing. She couldn't have left because Nanami was guarding the door and every room other than the bathroom has been searched. I can't think of any other plausible explanation than Peko being in the bathroom. Actually, that's a good point. Given the theory from before, I think whoever planned to use the knife had some way to trip the fuse during the party so they could get a stab in the dark. Maybe they figured somebody would wind up keeping an eye on the breaker switches, so they had the laxatives ready in case. This would immediately implicate Hanamura, who could've very easily slipped them in her food without notice, but if we're assuming Nagito went for the knife and was stopped by Togami, then he would certainly be the one behind the blackout and taking Peko out of the picture. It remains to be seen whether or not you can get underneath the cabin from inside. If there's absolutely no way underneath without going outside, then Kuzuryuu or Nanami would be the only possible culprits, assuming Nanami is telling the truth about nobody leaving the building (and unless she herself is the culprit, it would be pointless to lie about this). If there IS a way into the crawlspace, then Hanamura is certainly a potential suspect, but so is most everyone else. And this still doesn't explain how the lights came back on, since Peko seems to still be in the bathroom by that time. So I'm still leaning towards Kuzuryuu lurking around underneath the party waiting for the right moment, but I think Nagito planted the knife, planned the blackout, put laxatives in Peko's food, and was planning to murder someone in the dark. ...He was just lucky that Togami shoved him out of the way right before the culprit attacked. 
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Feb 21, 2013 22:53
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MonsterEnvy posted:But Hanamura is accounted for he was speaking the dark about the blackout not only being in the kitchen. Meaning it that short time frame he would not have had the time get under the floor. And you know he was in the kitchen when he said that how? For all we know he might have been under the floor when he said that. While I'm more of the Nagito sides of things, the "Hanamura is the culprit" theory is a second good possibility but I still can't see how he would have been able to go underground in all that darkness. There could be a second set of Night Vision Googles but how did Hanamura hid those? If he knew the blackout would happen that means that he probably hide then in the kitchen before the party started but Togami and Hinata searched the place for weapons so I don't think Togami would miss that(well he did the miss the taped knife so we never know). We still don't know how you can go underground, if there's a entrance outside that puts more suspicion on Nanami and Kuzuryuu who were outside.
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Feb 21, 2013 22:58
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The fact that Nagito "lost" the short straw thing he set up to decide who would clean the room is enough to put his as "Main culprit" in my eyes.
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Feb 21, 2013 23:02
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I think there might be something to the Tanaka theory perhaps. The hamsters could have gotten in and out of the floorboards without too much trouble probably, and could have remotely cut the power, maybe even slipping past Peko to do it. Seeing a hamster scurrying into or out from under the table also could explain Togami's line and how he wound up under the table of his own volition. However, the question remains of how the knife got there, where Peko went, and what the bathroom deal is. There are probably more likely theories but I kinda like that one. EDIT: There's also the missing earring and Tanaka's line right before you find the body.
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Feb 21, 2013 23:07
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Falls Down Stairs posted:Well, I'm interpreting Nidai's statement that the washroom has been locked the entire time literally and think we've seen Peko at some point after we have reason to believe the washroom is already locked. It is somewhat ambiguous but I feel fairly confident that Nidai meant after they started eating, because he would have had no reason to check the bathroom until he actually needed to use it. Also, in update 23 the characters all refer to the start of the party as the moment they start eating, which is after Pekoyama leaves the room. MonsterEnvy posted:But Hanamura is accounted for he was speaking the dark about the blackout not only being in the kitchen. Meaning it that short time frame he would not have had the time get under the floor. We have no guarantee that Hanamura was actually in the kitchen when he said that. In fact, it seems suspicious that he went out of his way to say where he was when the blackout happened. That is a great way to establish an alibi.
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Feb 21, 2013 23:10
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IceBorg posted:And you know he was in the kitchen when he said that how? For all we know he might have been under the floor when he said that. Isn't the cabin raised, anyways, so it wouldn't be underground per say?
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Feb 21, 2013 23:18
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So I see a lot of people accusing Kuzuryuu and I don't understand why. Yes he made a declaration saying he would be ok with killing. But think about the facts: 1) Everyone knows he's avoiding the party (or under the assumption of that, if you want to go down that route) so if someone dies he will be easily suspicious because he has no alibi that can be affirmed by more than one person (Peko being the only one who went to him ahead of time and told everyone he wouldn't show up). If he was going to kill and get away with it, doing it now would be stupid because he is the most suspicious on account of having no one able to account for his timeline during the party. I expect this to come up during the trial for sure. 2) Togami made him mad and that makes him killing Togami a horrible idea. Kuzuryuu already has a motive because of their argument and Togami saying he was going to protect everyone. You don't want to have an obvious motive for murder if you're going to murder and get away with it. If Kuzuryuu was plotting murder it would be smarter for him to actually be in the lodge with everyone else, so he could have an accounted timeline during the murder. Away from the group he is without alibi and is the easiest target for accusation because he could move around freely without anyone being able to say "I saw Kuzuryuu in X place, five minutes before the murder." We also have Nanami to account for, who was in front of the lodge while the party was going on with Monomi. There's no reason to think she's lying from what was seen in my opinion. I do like the theory of Hanamura and Nagito both plotting murder and getting their plans intertwined accidentally. Nagito put the knife under the table and Hanamura went under the floor somehow during the murder. Nagito goes under the table trying to get the knife, but Togami with his night vision goggles spots him and tries to stop him (hence the "what are you doing" soundclip). But Hanamura gets him from underneath, sneaks out of the floor and makes it back in time to rejoin the group. The only issue I see with it are the lights going off at a certain time and how the floor could be accessed. lotus circle fucked around with this message at 23:23 on Feb 21, 2013 |
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Feb 21, 2013 23:21
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I like all the suspicion that's being cast on Nagito, particularly because he's... kind of shady and has had all of this opportunity to set the stage for an opportunistic murder in the dark. I think he's 'the Togami' of this game, personally - perpetually suspicious but likely to never be guilty. I have nothing to back this up and it may be proven otherwise once the investigation phase begins, but I suspect the bathroom was locked from within and someone wriggled through the floorboards to move elsewhere. It was mentioned that the crawlspace is probably entirely filthy, and this seems likely to me - so, if we find evidence of a quick change or quick cleanup then it'll be all the more obvious. Of course, we have very little to go on right now, so saying that you're convinced a character did it is really premature. We have some observations and that's it.
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Feb 21, 2013 23:22
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lotus circle posted:If Kuzuryuu was plotting murder it would be smarter for him to actually be in the lodge with everyone else, so he could have an accounted timeline during the murder. Away from the group he is without alibi and is the easiest target for accusation because he could move around freely without anyone being able to say "I saw Kuzuryuu in X place, five minutes before the murder." We also have Nanami to account for, who was in front of the lodge while the party was going on with Monomi. There's no reason to think she's lying from what was seen in my opinion. Devil's Advocate, there's also the line of thinking that since he was nowhere near the party, how could he even be a suspect?
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Feb 21, 2013 23:23
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Alright, I'm going to organize my theory in one post. I think this covers a lot of the questions floating around, but there will undoubtedly be contradictions and inconsistencies if you look hard enough. But here's how I think it went down at this point: *Nagito hears about Togami planning a party in the old cabin. Anticipating that someone would have to prep the place, he prepares sticks for everybody to draw and purposefully loses so that he can clean the place himself. *Peko tells Kuzuryuu about the party. Kuzuryuu declines, but decides to check the place out, possibly while Nagito is out getting things at the supermarket. It's at this point he swipes a skewer from the kitchen and discovers the crawlspace underneath the cabin. More importantly, that the skewer can slip easily through the cracks. *Nagito plants the knife and rigs the power to go out at a certain point. How exactly this is accomplished remains to be seen, but the beeping immediately before the blackout suggests there was some sort of rigging as opposed to pulling the breaker manually. Kuzuryuu, still hiding in the crawlspace, witnesses this and decides that the moment the power goes out and Nagito makes a grab for the knife, he'll stab him with the skewer. *Togami confiscates everybody's weapons and all dangerous articles. In a separate box, he has night vision goggles. He is suspicious somebody might go for the lights and has them as a safety precaution. *Peko is assigned to guard the office where the breaker switches are located. Nagito, seeing this as an opportunity to throw blame on her, slips laxatives into her food or drink. This way, when the power goes out, he will have time to make his move and Peko will become the prime suspect. Moments later, Nidai has to poo poo like a volcano, but Peko has locked herself in the bathroom. *The power goes out. Nagito makes for the knife and Togami puts on the goggles. Perhaps because of his glasses, he does not strap them on, but looks through them like a pair of binoculars. Witnessing Nagito diving under the table, he calls after him, runs over, and shoves him out of the way. Togami then attempts to confiscate the knife. *Kuzuryuu, hearing the commotion immediately above, stabs Togami with the skewer. Togami bleeds out, getting blood on the knife and the tablecloth, but quickly dies. *Nagito, perhaps realizing that Togami has just mysteriously died, stumbles over to the office where he flips the power back on. Souda is wandering somewhere else, completely unable to locate the office in the darkness. For all we know, he could be over by the storage room. Goddamnit, Souda. *Lights come on, shenanigans occur, and the body is found. So basically, Nagito was planning to murder somebody, but Kuzuryuu is the culprit in this case. Again, the investigation might disprove some of this, particularly if we find a way under the cabin from inside, but otherwise I think it's pretty solid. Feel free to throw me a "That's not right!!" though if you can disprove anything!
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Feb 21, 2013 23:40
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Wait a goddamned minute. If you hid a knife with glow in the dark tape... well, I mean... why would you do that? You planted the knife. You know where it is. Wouldn't it be easier to plant it under something like a specific corner table? There's two really suspicious things going on. That, and the fact that not only did one person bring night vision for the blackout, but someone else used glow-in-the-dark tape ... also for the blackout. Could Togami and the killer have both known the lights were going to go out? Or could Togami and the killer have colluded for some other means before the murder betrayed them? Or could whoever planted the knife have done so for another person? (Since the tape would signal "here is where I hid the knife" if you were looking under the tables but hadn't planted it yourself.)
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Feb 21, 2013 23:42
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slowbeef posted:Wait a goddamned minute. Perhaps just to make sure the person who planted it would be able to immediately locate it once he ducked under the table. It'd be extremely easy to cut yourself if you have absolutely no idea where under the table the knife is sitting, and that would be incriminating evidence. At least if the tape is glowing, you know where to feel around for the handle.
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Feb 21, 2013 23:46
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Armanky posted:Perhaps just to make sure the person who planted it would be able to immediately locate it once he ducked under the table. It'd be extremely easy to cut yourself if you have absolutely no idea where under the table the knife is sitting, and that would be incriminating evidence. At least if the tape is glowing, you know where to feel around for the handle. However, it could also indicate that the murderer is incompetent or lacks confidence. Surely every person can remember where they placed a weapon and what direction they placed it in, but some people would panic and think "what if."
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Feb 21, 2013 23:54
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Even more to the point, I feel like one person doesn't need glow in the dark tape AND night vision. More than one person knew the blackout was coming. If this turns out to be regular green tape, I'm going to be so annoyed.
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Feb 22, 2013 00:05
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slowbeef posted:Even more to the point, I feel like one person doesn't need glow in the dark tape AND night vision. More than one person knew the blackout was coming.
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Feb 22, 2013 00:06
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DaveWoo posted:Or perhaps one person knew, and another was paranoid enough to suspect it. I was thinking along these lines too - Togami had a lot of angles covered with this party, he knew where the breakers were (and therefore that it was possible for someone to use them to cause a power outage) and the night vision goggles were pretty readily accessible in the supermarket. I think it makes sense for Togami to have brought the goggles just in case.
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Feb 22, 2013 00:23
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slowbeef posted:Even more to the point, I feel like one person doesn't need glow in the dark tape AND night vision. More than one person knew the blackout was coming. It's supposed to be luminous. edit: By the way, Orenonen, you mentioned you wanted to do an update a day until things picked up; Is this what you meant? Cuntellectual fucked around with this message at 00:36 on Feb 22, 2013 |
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Feb 22, 2013 00:33
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DaveWoo posted:Or perhaps one person knew, and another was paranoid enough to suspect it. This is exactly what I was thinking as well. Togami has proven to be pretty genre savvy as far as murder mystery characters go and seems to have a decent understanding on how people might react given the situation. It's also likely that he chose to hold the party in order to draw out any would be killers in order to better protect the group by making them aware of those who are willing to play by Monobear's rules. He made sure to choose a location that would limit any murder's actions to that building, he made sure to identify any threats within the cabin and prepare countermeasures for them (the cases and possibly the night vision goggles), and Togami made sure to remove any threatening item from the rest of the cast as they arrived to eliminate the possibility of them using outside means to injure anyone. In all likelihood, Togami knew that tensions in the group were beginning to peak and that someone was going to do something desperate and he wanted to minimize casualties by catching the person in the act with as many witnesses as possible. It's likely that as soon as the lights went out Togami immediately put on his goggles in an effort to identify whoever was going to take advantage of the situation and got himself stabbed when he went under the table to investigate some suspicious activity.
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Feb 22, 2013 01:24
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Just to aid (or quash?) speculation, the person saying "Hey, what do you think you're doing?" followed by the pause then the sound of some kind of action followed by "Stop it!" and the "Ow!" are all spoken by Togami. I can't help but recognise Akira Ishida's voice and it's definitely him saying all three. Noticeably he says that after Hiyoko yells for someone to not tread on her feet. I wonder if it's because Togami (using the night vision goggles he'd previously stored in his box) saw someone loving around with that table and went to confront them? It makes sense if you consider that the tape seemed designed to make itself obvious and whoever had goggles wouldn't need such a clue. It feels as though the timeline is something like: (lights go out) Togami puts on the goggles that he'd kept in the box he'd previously stated he refused to leave the side of. Hiyoko's foot is stepped on, either because: Togami was already walking past her and focusing on the person he's walking towards; OR someone else steps on her because they don't have goggles and Hiyoko's complaint alerts Togami and with his goggles he clearly sees them. Togami walks towards the person either way, asking what the hell they're doing. (Hinata's dialogue about not being able to see) Togami yells for the person to stop and shortly afterwards sounds pained. At this point, both the killer and Togami are at the table where the knife was, as Togami collapses, the killer just 'guides' the fall of his body under the table, throws the knife there and returns to the group. Of course, if this occurred, then it must have taken a lot of luck (or skill?) to not get any blood on them. So either they wear clothing that doesn't show blood, miraculously avoided getting any blood on them whatsoever, or they were never visible post-murder (like Pekoyama - although she seemed pretty anti cold-blooded murder). I guess I'll have to wait until the clue-gathering phase.
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Feb 22, 2013 02:06
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What if the glow in the dark tape was planted to draw someone over? Picture this: The lights go off, Togami sees a strange green glow. Crouching near the table, he investigates the tape, only to meet the sharp end of a skewer from a person under the table. With such a short distance between Togami and the ground, his fall would be unnoticeable in the commotion. The killer drops the goggles under the table, drops the skewer through the floor, and gets out from under the table to rejoin the group. As for the knife, I can't really work out a point. That's my two cents, at least.
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Feb 22, 2013 02:17
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Anatharon posted:It's supposed to be luminous. Im praying he means up to and including the trial because everything from the murder till end of trial is such a cock tease. I still simply cannot shake the feeling that togami isn't actually dead. Not because I particularly enjoy him, it just seems too simple.
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Feb 22, 2013 02:23
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edit: nevermind
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Feb 22, 2013 02:57
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the_american_dream posted:edit: nevermind  Yes?
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Feb 22, 2013 03:02
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Tesseraction posted:Just to aid (or quash?) speculation, the person saying "Hey, what do you think you're doing?" followed by the pause then the sound of some kind of action followed by "Stop it!" and the "Ow!" are all spoken by Togami. I can't help but recognise Akira Ishida's voice and it's definitely him saying all three. Awesome, now I can stop bothering Gundam SEED fans to do this for me. Tesseraction posted:~timeline/scenario theory~ I don't really see the killing happening anywhere other than under the table as really plausible. Having whomever "guide" Togami's fall from not-under the table to under the table without getting blood everywhere on the outside of the tablecloth sounds extremely improbable- it's more likely that Togami and whomever he was shouting at were already under the table (especially since it seems like the knife was torn from the "ceiling" of the table). Here's something that doesn't make sense to me: Why is the knife still present at the scene of the crime at all? Why didn't the murderer hide it on their person and leave with it and dispose of it at some other opportunity? Was that an accident? If we assume someone else whom Togami was shouting at was under the table, they'd probably have been splashed with blood and might have needed to dispose of that evidence, couldn't they have taken the knife with them to dispose of it? Or is the knife a red herring? The skewer is still unaccounted for. This is a total blind and stupid guess, but I keep wanting to say that Souda might have been disposing of evidence like a bloody shirt during his time out in the hallway since he's the only one we know was in the room at the time of the killing, then left and so wasn't immediately visible afterwards. Ledundead posted:What if the glow in the dark tape was planted to draw someone over? The tape was entirely under the table, though. Why would it be visible to the whole room in that case? Falls Down Stairs fucked around with this message at 03:17 on Feb 22, 2013 |
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Feb 22, 2013 03:05
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It's going to really suck rear end if Nagito was the one who murdered Togami. The two most "What the gently caress? How why what?" characters and they're both out of the picture in the first chapter with no explanation whatsoever.  (typical Dangan Ronpa, to be honest)
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Feb 22, 2013 03:26
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Falls Down Stairs posted:The tape was entirely under the table, though. Why would it be visible to the whole room in that case? For that matter, this could easily be the kind of night vision that puts a green filter over everything so it'd be pretty hard to notice. In any case, the goggles are positioned such that if Togami fell forwards after crawling under the table they could easily have been knocked off his head and landed where they are, so I think it's pretty safe to assume that he was wearing them. I think it's also pretty safe to assume that nobody who's currently in the room could get that close to that much blood without getting covered in it. In the last game Leon used a similar knife to kill Maizono and he not only was there less blood but he still had to dispose of his shirt because of it. That said, unlike in DR1 the knife isn't from the kitchen - all of them were present and accounted for when inspected. There's no reason why someone wouldn't have just used one of the kitchen knives unless they were worried about Hanamura seeing, and I don't think it was Hanamura himself because he was looking forward to showing off his SHSL cooking skills. If he's trying to show off to everyone, why would he then try and kill someone at the same time? it could be an elaborate cover, but if he wanted people dead he could just put poison/crushed sleeping pills in the food and not bother with the lights. The fact that Peko has vanished is pretty suspicious, but until we find her there's not really any way to speculate on what she was doing. Nagito obviously had the best opportunity here, and I wouldn't put it past the writers to have the people most associated with DR1 killed off first. He's also been the one whose worked the most closely with us, so the writers might be doing another Maizono where our closest ally is actually the killer. Except he doesn't seem covered in blood, and doesn't seem to have had any way to clean himself if he was. That in mind it seems like Kuzuryuu, having hidden in the bathroom the whole time (people would have noticed had he arrived any later) is the most likely suspect. He could have waylaid Peko on his way to the breakers or distracted her somehow. The only thing is we don't know where he is - he could have been outside the whole time and just another Syo-like red herring.
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Feb 22, 2013 03:47
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Falls Down Stairs posted:The tape was entirely under the table, though. Why would it be visible to the whole room in that case? The light could go through the table cloth. In pitch blackness, even the littlest light would get someone's attention. Since the light looked like it was being covered by the tablecloth, it would give Togami even more reason to look underneath the table as opposed to just looking right at the tape. The glow-in-the-dark tape had to be seen by someone in the dark, or else it'd just be normal tape. There's a reason for it's existence. And Pyradox, I am not assuming anything about Togami wearing the goggles. There are way too many unknowns right now. Light sources in night vision goggles tend to stand out, anyway.
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Feb 22, 2013 03:58
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Ledundead posted:The light could go through the table cloth. In pitch blackness, even the littlest light would get someone's attention. Since the light looked like it was being covered by the tablecloth, it would give Togami even more reason to look underneath the table as opposed to just looking right at the tape. The glow-in-the-dark tape had to be seen by someone in the dark, or else it'd just be normal tape. There's a reason for it's existence. Those things are really dim though; "glow" is a relative term. And not only is was it obscured by the tablecloth, it was stuck to the bottom of the table. Even in the wildly doubtful situation that it could be seen through the sheet at all, you'd probably need to be crouching already to see it. Yes, if it's glow in the dark tape there should be a reason for it, but the plausible reason is that it's so somebody already under the table wouldn't have difficulty finding it. But if someone was trying to lure someone else under the table with a light source they'd probably have hidden a cheap flashlight under there or something. I mean, your story is strictly possible but it's like saying "Well, we don't know this piece of tape wasn't magical and glowing far brighter than something glow-in-the-dark ever should have, but if we assume it was...".
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Feb 22, 2013 04:16
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Falls Down Stairs posted:I mean, your story is strictly possible but it's like saying "Well, we don't know this piece of tape wasn't magical and glowing far brighter than something glow-in-the-dark ever should have, but if we assume it was...". Not to mention we still don't really know if it's glow in the dark tape or just bright green tape. If it was glowing specifically to attract attention, why wouldn't multiple people have seen it? Also why would anyone need night vision goggles then? It's simply more likely the tape was just being used to conceal the knife and wasn't part of an elaborate will-o-the-wisp bait and switch murder plot. Wait a minute. Why the hell did Togami need night vision goggles when a flashlight would suffice? Even if he suspected there might be a power cut he has no reason to ever be the only one who can see. The only obvious explanation is whoever wore them did so to hide from the other students, meaning they belonged not to Togami but to the killer. Except that means the killer not only snuck in night vision goggles without anyone noticing, but didn't sneak them out again afterwards despite ostensibly wearing them the whole time. They also arranged them to face Togami as though they'd fallen off his head even though nobody expected him to have them. Yeah, I'm going to have to wait until we search the crime scene before I can make any more sense of this.
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Feb 22, 2013 04:33
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I personally want to leave any real theory crating till we get some more information. Right now, the same theories keep popping up, and I really don't think we can determine too much more until we see a bit of investigation. On a completely different note, however much I would love it to be true, the clusterfuck of murders theory seems a bit iffy to me. I just can't buy that multiple people all carefully prepared for a murder reliant on the lights going out, when there is really no way that ALL of them could have known the lights would go out. e: It is always possible that multiple people expected the blackout, and that's exactly why I don't want to really delve too much into theory crafting at this point. slam5000 fucked around with this message at 04:54 on Feb 22, 2013 |
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Feb 22, 2013 04:47
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Speaking of searching the crime scene... I wonder who's going to lead the investigation? There's no obvious Kirigiri-type character in the group, and pretty much everyone is a potential suspect.
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Feb 22, 2013 04:49
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Pyradox posted:Not to mention we still don't really know if it's glow in the dark tape or just bright green tape. If it was glowing specifically to attract attention, why wouldn't multiple people have seen it? Also why would anyone need night vision goggles then? It's simply more likely the tape was just being used to conceal the knife and wasn't part of an elaborate will-o-the-wisp bait and switch murder plot. Wow, that didn't even occur to me when I brought up flashlights. That means... whoever planted the knife and whoever had the goggles were independent parties (since any person using one wouldn't need the other) who both anticipated the blackout and both intended to take advantage of it towards secret ends?  Okay, I think that's as far as I can go until investigations start and we get more concrete information.
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Feb 22, 2013 05:03
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DaveWoo posted:Speaking of searching the crime scene... I wonder who's going to lead the investigation? There's no obvious Kirigiri-type character in the group, and pretty much everyone is a potential suspect.
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Feb 22, 2013 05:06
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