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Rawkking
Sep 4, 2011

Mersenne posted:

However, that pink rabbit... thing in the video at the end of the first update clearly isn't Monobear, which makes me wonder if we're actually dealing with two masterminds this time around.

Obviously the only person who could pull off piloting and voicing a magical girl costume wearing, pink-and-white monobunny is our beloved Naegi :v:

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Rawkking
Sep 4, 2011

IceBorg posted:

Yeah the whole Hinata vs Naegi is interesting. One of the things I'm looking forward to now, is how Hinata will react to the death game. With Naegi's personality and the fact that he was the protagonist it clearly told us that there was a very low change of him murder someone and so his role in the story was very predictable in that way, but with this info on Hinata's character I'm very interested on how he will react to everything and how he will lead the trials.

I think he'll probably react with horror at the possibility of the good name of Hope's Peak being slandered and probably refuse to murder someone because of that. Can't fall too far from the tree, he is the protagonist.

And although it isn't a huge leap to figure this out at all from what we've learned, a friend of mine gave a really good, succinct name for what is (probably) Hinata's SHSL Skill:

Super High School Level School Spirit

Rawkking
Sep 4, 2011

Aisu posted:

Usami speculation

From how Usami has been presented so far (childish, intolerable, even a bit disturbing, pretending something that is terrifying is the best thing ever) I suspect that Usami is actually controlled by team despair as a sort of strawman for what "hope" really is. Think of that south park episode (and probably examples in real life) where the overly peppy drug free life advocate accomplishes the opposite effect intended.

Though it could just be the game having fun with how out there it is, and Usami may actually say constructive things in the future.

Monobear's almost certainly showing up in an update or two, this game doesn't really have a plot as it is now.


Edit: Also on "this game is a computer simulation" considering the whole hope vs. despair and how that is supposed to tie in with reality, I'd say that if that is the case it'd be a much better story for the students to be real but plugged into virtual reality machines (perhaps with the exception of an AI or two?). Gonna leave it at that until more evidence comes up since we've only really got hexcode and a few flickers to go on.

Rawkking fucked around with this message at 00:52 on Dec 13, 2012

Rawkking
Sep 4, 2011
Now I wonder if they are going to have sections of the island fenced off to be revealed later, or if not what they are going to do to help each chapter have a sense of discovery that in the same way that DR1 did.

Rawkking
Sep 4, 2011

Ditocoaf posted:

Yeah, the only thing you're storing in fat is calories, energy. You need a lot more than energy from food.


Well, sorta. You'll have to worry about malnutrition (lack of nutrients) rather than malnourishment (lack of calories), which is less of a thing to worry about. And you'd need to bring ample water with you because dehydration will kill you fastest because we aren't built like camels. With some sort of minimal diet and sufficient water you'd definitely be able to keep going longer than someone who is bone thin, though your bones (including teeth) and muscles will be degraded along with your fat through starvation so it's hardly a healthy strategy :eng101:

There's also all kinds of terrible conditions you can get from various sorts of malnutrition, most of you have probably heard of sailors suffering from scurvy due to lack of vitamin C. Better than being dead though!

It's a pretty silly scheme as opposed to just taking the food with you, though perhaps just silly enough for Dangan Ronpa. Still think his weight is due to some other reason.

Rawkking fucked around with this message at 09:04 on Dec 14, 2012

Rawkking
Sep 4, 2011
So a friend (who I really need to go and buy a SA account for on account of winning a bet about Junko) and I were discussing Usami's possible motives when he mentioned something interesting.


Listening to Usami's theme once more, it appears there may be more English lyrics in it than I expected (I thought it was just the various "Hey!"s.)

Start at the top and pay close attention to the extremely high-pitched effeminate background lyrics. Try to identify what they're saying in the first phrase they come in on (shortly after the start). Maybe try to listen again a few times to make sure you got it right before going to the bottom of this post, because I want to hear what your first impression of the line was.



























Did you hear something similar to "Dance! Gonna make you dance, dance, dance!"? Yes? No? Interested either way, to see if I'm just hearing what he said based on his suggestion or not.

Rawkking
Sep 4, 2011

DaveWoo posted:

Yeah, the "is it worse?" line does seem to be suggesting that the narrator's memory was deliberately wiped.

The other interpretation of that is that what she stated (and narrated to us) occurred isn't actually what happened this meeting. At least, not fully. IE she's an unreliable narrator, as people have pointed out.

Rawkking
Sep 4, 2011
Oh wait, if she does have anterograde amnesia as it traditionally exists but still recognizes that she is a Hope's Peak student, does that mean that whatever event happened to take her memory occurred while she was a student of Hope's Peak? Since she shouldn't remember she's a student otherwise, and doesn't seem to need the notebook for that fact.

Would explain how she was admitted to the school in spite of probably not being SHSL anymore (grandfathered in). Does lend some support to the idea that the memory loss was intentional, but I'm not buying that yet. Thinking back to the headmaster's comments on a student's "own brand of hope", trying to cure this debilitating condition would be an impetus to the SHSL Neurologist doing something drastic in the future.

Rawkking
Sep 4, 2011

Alien Arcana posted:

Well, since the alternative is that Chihiro programmed Alter Ego in a matter of days starting from scratch...

...or that the broken laptop that was found was his and contained some of his work?

Rawkking
Sep 4, 2011

purple_sammich posted:

I don't get why it's so hard for some of you to understand that Nagito might know about Togami from hearsay. He's a famous heir, is it that far-fetched that Nagito might know about him from watching TV or reading the paper or something?

I mean, you can say that about a lot of these characters, that they're well-known. It's totally possible that the average person might read a review about one of Saionji's performances in the paper or see footage of Akane doing some crazy move at a gymnastics competition on the evening news. Heck, when talking about Akane Nagito says "According to rumor", which pretty much means he knew about her from before they met. There's really no need to overthink the scene with Nagito and Togami.

Also, just a reminder that there's nothing so far that definitively indicates whether this game is a sequel or a prequel.

I think the problem is that Nagito claimed, much like Naegi, to have researched his fellow classmates for the year on the internet. This seems to fit for the actual information, comparing Naegi's blurb on Togami to Nagito's speech, they're nearly exactly the same:

orenronen posted:

I have never seen someone so reluctant to introduce himself in my life.
But I guess that’s easy to understand.
That guy... he’s special even among all the Super High-school Levels.
Byakuya Togami... He’s the heir to the financial giant Togami family. Since he was young, he was enrolled in nothing but the most exclusive schools.
It’s told that he already holds several management positions at the company, and already managed to acquire a considerable personal fortune of his very own.
An extraordinary high-school student, worthy of being called a “Super High-school Level Heir”.
...that’s what was written in the Hope’s Peak Academy thread.

orenronen posted:

Yep, that's just what you’d expect from Togami-kun.
"What you’d expect"... What do you mean?



You see, even among all the Super High-school Level students in our class, he’s special.
He's heir to a financial giant - the Togami conglomerate. He’s been taught the secrets of leadership ever since he was very young.
Despite his age, he's already held a variety of management positions, and acquired a considerable fortune of his very own.



The title "Super High-school Level Heir" fits him to a tee, doesn't it? He’s really an exceptional high-school student.

It sounds like he’s more like... someone out of a manga story.


The problem is, how can Nagito have pre-researched Togami as a member of his class if Naegi pre-researched Togami as a member of his class? And in the exact same way?

It could be a prequel as you've pointed out: perhaps Togami was scheduled to attend but ended up waiting a year beforehand (though on the other hand, why didn't Naegi mention this at all in the first game if so? The 2channel boards should have mentioned he was held back a year, since Nagito obviously heard about them the year beforehand.). If it's a sequel, then Nagito is either lying intentionally or his memory has been modified. Perhaps he is Naegi as some have speculated and the two are both trying to infiltrate the despair game, or perhaps Togami has been memory wiped and Nagito is in league with the bad guys.

But no matter what the explanation ends up being it's currently a clear, unresolved contradiction.

Rawkking
Sep 4, 2011

Miss Kalle posted:

I didn't really expect to become so attached to her, myself. Until some curveball gets thrown later on, I fully choose to believe that she's being genuine about building hope and morale and all that good stuff and seeing it get thrown aside for Monobear's own purposes is just :saddowns: (even if the trials are legitimately more engaging gameplay-wise.)

I'm not convinced that Usami isn't in league with SHSL Despair. Her telling the students to "Just forget about Hope's Peak", our MC's own feelings that something isn't right with the setup, and the fact that she very clearly knew who Monobear was (outright saying his name) before he even introduced himself.

This really leaves either her being an intentionally poor representation of hope, or her being controlled by someone who has encountered Monobear before. Is there some unknown hope-aligned third party? Would one of the DR1 survivors really do such a bad job at it? Maybe Kirigiri controlling Usami and ending up with a really awkward/forced representation of "hope" because something happened to Naegi would be believable, but it still feels like a stretch. And despite being comic relief, I think Aoi or Hagakure could do a better job. Plus there's the fact that the students were memory wiped and brought to this island, and the fact that the Monozoids just happened to be there already.

In spite of this, I have to agree that the scene was very powerful and disturbing. I felt bad for Usami, and then felt bad for feeling bad because I still suspect her. Well played, game.

Rawkking
Sep 4, 2011
Nagito and Sonia

Nagito for being the most entertaining character so far (in my opinion) due to how he plays off the protagonist, and Sonia for seeming like she may be more clever than she herself believes.

Rawkking
Sep 4, 2011

Sherringford posted:

But if it's something he does on a regular basis, that just seems a strange habit to keep if you are trying to draw attention away from something.

My take is that regardless of whether he's a man or woman, he'd react the same way because he's concerned with people not taking him seriously. The only difference is whether this concern has to do with being secretly a woman or having some feminine qualities as a man. We don't really have evidence either way right now, and so it's probably safe to assume that he's a guy until we really start to have evidence pile up to the contrary, as you stated.

I also doubt he'd be in danger of people finding out he was a girl most of his life (and thus allowing for his behavior). His family obviously would know if he was a woman and they would have the resources to deter anyone trying to investigate.

edit: v hahahahaha excellent

Rawkking fucked around with this message at 01:08 on Jan 31, 2013

Rawkking
Sep 4, 2011
Huh, Togami dismisses the idea of there even being a traitor outright, which is very, very different from the way he reacted to the revelation of there being a mastermind's mole in DR1, and later learning the mastermind was one of the 16 students.

I'm not convinced he would lie in order to keep murders from happening even post-character development. It's nothing concrete yet, but the likelihood that Togami knows more than he's letting on seems to be increasing. For example, it would be congruous if he was the extra student, knew this, and also knew that he wasn't against the other students and thus not a traitor.

Rawkking
Sep 4, 2011

Mondlicht posted:

The whole cabin is a bit weird. The school windows in DR1 had bolts for two reasons. So the students can't escape, and so they can't see the outside. Obviously they already know what's outside the cabin, and there's really no issue of escape as they can seemingly come and go as they please.

Other things we know is:
- Monomi originally did not want anybody to use this cabin
- This Cabin is very old, in places filled with cobwebs and with rotten floorboards.
- In other places (the office) it is...not filled with cobwebs? Not sure if that's intentional. Usami's controller could have used the office, maybe.
- The bolted shut windows are just like the ones in DR1.
- It seems to have, more or less, all the amenities one would need to survive fairly comfortably, plus some. Bathroom, kitchen, storage (with food + water), electricity, office, no bedroom seen but plenty of space to put a mattress in either the office or the room the party is in.
- Hinata's monologue mentions it was "scheduled for reconstruction". Was that something Monomi said a while ago?

I don't think Togami could have bolted these windows shut without anyone noticing. I suspect this cabin has something to do with Hope's Peak Academy that had it bolted shut around the time DR1 came around, it would explain the age. Perhaps it was something on campus which was relocated to the island for some reason? Maybe someone affiliated with Hope's Peak inhabited this cabin?

Rawkking fucked around with this message at 03:35 on Feb 19, 2013

Rawkking
Sep 4, 2011
The last of what we've heard from Togami in that blackout sequence is "Oy! What are you doing?! Stop it!" followed by someone grunting, translated as "Ow!" in text (a male voice, could be Togami).

:ohdear:

Edit: Ok the grunt doesn't quite sound like Togami, more Nagito/Soudai, but still very vague.

Rawkking fucked around with this message at 00:38 on Feb 20, 2013

Rawkking
Sep 4, 2011
I really disagree that even if this Monobear knows about Togami they would reveal him right away. People aren't going to take what Monobear says at face value (at least not yet, he can build trust by being generally reliable like he was through most of DR1), and he'd come across to many as trying way too hard if he tried to paint someone as a crazy corpse mover right off the bat, no matter how hilariously true it may have been. And if Togami does have his memory (and can counter by mentioning how Junko was caught trying to frame a student because nobody would kill each other) it could go very, very badly for him. Better to leave some vague anticipation (revealing that one person isn't of the class) and then "reveal" more details later in the story; after all if this mystery student is a someone who doesn't belong and will murder someone... well, isn't that what Monobear wants? Why are you making it harder on them, Monobear? It doesn't add up.

This also explains why a memory-having Togami wouldn't fess up (fully at least, he might have hinted at it to Hinata already) as well: he'd not be believed at this point, and monobear could counter with Togami's corpse-moving and look like the truthful person.

Rawkking fucked around with this message at 05:30 on Feb 20, 2013

Rawkking
Sep 4, 2011

saihate posted:

Is it a possibility that Peko was an accomplice of Togami? It seemed strange that he was willing to let her guard the weapons far from sight and near the breakers. Additionally he had Night Vision goggles prepared. Well, whatever his plan was, it backfired pretty badly.

Bummer Togami is out, but he had a bunch of death flags popping up.

Alternatively, and seemingly far more likely from his character development, Togami had the night vision not to commit a murder but because he thought this would happen and he wanted to be equipped to protect the students.

It's possible Togami may not have had night vision at all and just spotted that something was up due to the killer holding the knife while it clearly has some of that possibly glow-in-the-dark tape on it. This would sort of explain where the nightvision shows up in the death clip as well.

Basically, either
- Togami yanked the night vision off the killer's face as he got stabbed and the killer elected to flee, leaving it sort of grasped in Togami's fingers as we see in the video.

Or

- The killer stabbed Togami and yanked the night vision off Togami's face at the same time, but decided to leave it where it lies (maybe Togami countergrabbed, leaving it in the position it is?)

Or, even

- There were two sets of night vision goggles. Togami was stabbed while his set was still in his hands, never managing to get them on.

I think the first point is probably the most likely.




And nthing the "Byakuya-san, nooooo!" comments. He just seemed so awkwardly enthusiastic to protect everyone. This time, this time he was going to be the protagonist, he knew it :smith:

Rawkking
Sep 4, 2011
An explanation for the bathroom that was apparently occupied for the whole party is that the killer locked it from the start. Going off the previous Hanamura-used-laxatives idea, perhaps this is to force anyone to leave the building, leaving them indisposed for longer?

It doesn't explain why Chiaki and Monomi don't fess up to Peko leaving though. Though they are both using anime ellipsis ("....no. no one") and thus possibly lying, especially since it would be somewhat dangerous to reveal to someone that Peko is alone and vulnerable to being murdered.

Rawkking
Sep 4, 2011

tiistai posted:


Ehhh. I'm not sure why but I'm getting "two separate murderers, at least one succesful" vibes here. At the very least Togami was up to something either sinister or benevolent.


Well, the fact that there are two possible murder weapons (the knife and the unaccounted-for-skewer) does say a lot, unless Hanamura's mentioning of a missing skewer is a red herring.

I'm personally hoping that Hanamura was the successful murderer and Nagito was the unsuccessful one out of unabashed character favoritism. Plus it would be really cool to see Not-Naegi have to deal with the social consequences of being an attempted murderer for the rest of the game. Since I haven't seen it brought up by anyone (though I certainly don't fully read every single post, vOv) I should mention that Nagito both dissuaded people from guarding the Togami box inside the storage room and volunteered to search the storage room, alone, immediately when he suggested people split up to search post-outage.

Also important for the blood trail discussions is that we have only approached the table from one direction so far. There could still be blood in open space in between the wall and the table; at the least there is a lot more blood splattered against the tablecloth on that side and seemingly a lot less blood on the side Hinata opened the sheets from.

Rawkking
Sep 4, 2011
One reason Togami could have gone under the table would be if it were close enough to wherever the Togami Box was placed that while guarding it during the blackout he heard someone else rustling under the table (presumably fetching the taped knife).

Sherringford posted:

That would mean that either Nagito is the killer(since he would be the only one who could have reasonably used them) or that the glasses belonged to Togami.

Is there a reason you don't think Hanamura could have prepped the nightvision? He would have had roughly as much relative freedom to move about the cabin without suspicion as Nagito and would have had ample opportunity to smuggle in a pair while carting in food from the supermarket (he could have gotten some food from the storage room but I doubt he'd limit himself to that stuff). If he had access to the crawlspace under the lodge (and this is a big if for all potential killers, since even if the floorboards are in terrible enough shape that one could pry open an entrance anywhere, you would need to do it in a space that no one would notice easily) stashing them somewhere Togami and Hinata couldn't notice in their search would be easy.

The bathroom door is definitely interesting. It could simply have been locked while the door is open and then closed (two of the bathrooms in my house can let you lock yourself out like this, requiring either the key or to pick the lock) solely to keep people from using the bathroom, or it was locked and then exited another way (crawlspace?). I'm not sure why someone would put a crawlspace entrance in the bathroom, it could be because they possess the key to open it (preventing others from finding the crawlspace) or maybe it's supposed to be accessed from another crawlspace, and they stored the nightvision or skewer or something there (seems more complicated than just leaving it in the dirt).

Edit: Yeah, idea of a guy with nightvision attacking from the crawlspace really does seem to contradict where the nightvision ended up. I think I'm gonna stop speculating at this point because there are just too many unanswered questions to do much more good. Also, can't wait until we get to see what the new "Box X" theme is (please let there be a new "Box X" theme).

Rawkking fucked around with this message at 22:25 on Feb 21, 2013

Rawkking
Sep 4, 2011
Hah, Nagito is either lying, crazy, or the theory about Nagito being a knife user who was pushed away by Togami before he could stab Togami is correct. It's plausible that after someone dies when you clearly have failed to do the job one could become convinced of foul play by Monobear.

Rawkking fucked around with this message at 18:41 on Feb 24, 2013

Rawkking
Sep 4, 2011

tiistai posted:

I didn't expect Mahiru to call herself "not that smart".

I just can't take "am I the only one" questions rhetorically

Koizumi's comment doesn't seem to be clashing with her character to me, though it's revealing a depth that might have only been hinted at before. She's always yelling at others to shape up, but that doesn't preclude her from having low self-esteem/self-confidence somewhat hidden by the bluster we've seen from her. Note how when she did dispute Togami's self-appointment to leader she didn't volunteer to lead herself and instead suggested Sonia, and when Sonia said that she thought Togami was a good leader she fell in line with only minor bluster and to me really seemed to accept that she was wrong. She seems to trust Sonia due to her class to an extent that she believes what Sonia says over what she originally thinks.

I'm pretty glad that her adherence to gender roles/class roles seems to be grounded in something instead of her just being somewhat classist/sexist "just because", though I suppose DR does a good job at giving reasons for why characters do the weird things they do in general. Almost like the game has good writers or something! :)

And yeah, "am I the only one?" questions when they clearly haven't read the thread fully are super annoying. I'm probably not entirely blameless on this though, and will endeavor to avoid posting like that in the future.

Runaway Bro posted:

Dangan Ronpa's first "investigation" theme. It replaces the usual area BGM during Abnormal Days. And it's super catchy.

I don't remember anymore if it was just for the last trial, but at some point in the game it was replaced by a rock cover with a little more oomph.

e: I'm an idiot.

Yeah, when it got clear that the update wouldn't actually have the investigation phase in it I was really hoping Oren would have put the music at the end of the update so we could jam to it while speculating or something. drat musical cliffhangers :argh:

I wonder what the title name will be? I think (not 100% sure) that Box 15/Box 16 references the number of students believed to be at the school by the cast. IE: when Mukuro Ikubasa is revealed by Monobear to be the sixteenth student, Box 16 plays in investigation from then on.

Rawkking fucked around with this message at 23:03 on Feb 24, 2013

Rawkking
Sep 4, 2011

Powerfrog posted:

I really dislike the over-use of the word despair when it makes much more sense to use another word. Not sure if this is the game or the translation (Assuming it's the game) but it doesn't read very well and I feel you'd get the sense despair is being caused if the word wasn't forced into every sentence.

I'm just assuming the game is trolling us at this point, and the overuse of the word (especially Nagito's) is going to made hilarious or meaningful in some way (like Nagito being an attempted murderer). And beyond that, perhaps a suitable explanation for why he's so specifically gung-ho about it. At least other people sometimes call Nagito out on his seeming obsession to be SHSL Hope while not being made of the same stuff as Naegi is (among said lack of stuff: overplaying the hell out of hope talk).

Suzuki Method posted:

Hate to ask, but anyone reading this who's already played DR2, can someone perhaps go looking for (worksafe noncreepy) fan art of Owari for me? She's my favourite character and I'd like to probably change my avatar to her. :3:

I can't do it myself because I don't want to spoil anything.

Similarly, if anyone has any similar Nagito fanart I'd appreciate seeing it, though I *may* have found a suitable one for an avatar safely.

Rawkking
Sep 4, 2011
On the DR1 English backwards Leon spelling, the explanation I heard that seems to make the most sense is that while anybody who's been through Japan's educational system can read English, it's perhaps not as automatically obvious as it is to someone who expects words to be written in English all the time (like Americans), especially when it's written backwards. So it was supposed to be figured out with not too much difficulty, but it probably wasn't to the same "are you making GBS threads me?" level of seemingly dumb that it was to English speakers.

(Also an interesting tidbit/hint one of my friends pointed out on something the thread apparently missed in that trial - in one of Maizono's mandatory free time events she apparently talks about how a mnemonic trick she had for her learning people's names is by tracing them in English in the palm of her hand with her other hand. Which also helps explain why she decided to and was able to write Leon's name in English on the wall behind her - she had practice!)

Rawkking fucked around with this message at 23:25 on Feb 26, 2013

Rawkking
Sep 4, 2011
Yeah you're right, I just looked through the early DR1 updates and couldn't find an instance of Maizono doing that. Welp.

Rawkking
Sep 4, 2011

orenronen posted:

You're right. Seeing was impossible. But maybe there's someone who could hear what happened?

...Hear?

I... think I know who he has in mind.

Well Nagito, for a possibly-murderer you're doing pretty well at this investigation thing.

It seems likely from the position he's in that Togami was stabbed from somewhere below. And as Nagito hints, tracking Togami as he moved from his initial position to under the table would be very easy as from underneath the floor they would very easily hear the clattering of floorboards as Togami's heavy, heavy body moves across the room and underneath the table.

The big question now is what was done to get a nightvision-equipped Togami to say what he did and get underneath the table. I'm not sure if the planted knife would have lured him there, especially since he seems to have seen someone. Someone (Nagito?) going underneath the table to get the knife would definitely work, but I don't think you could grab the knife and get underneath the floorspace, or even just feint at grabbing the knife and going under the floorspace instead. We really need to find floorspace entrances to figure out what's going on, check underneath that rug Hinata!

Going with the idea of there being two different murder attempts actually seems to work very well, since using hearing to locate and stab someone from beneath doesn't actually require a blackout: presumably in the crawlspace you have access to the entirety of the lodge, so you would just have to wait for someone to get relatively isolated and off-guard and then stab from beneath. On the other hand, the killer must have been pretty patient if he didn't try to kill someone earlier, Pekoyama and Hanamura would be possible targets from their activity.

This all really hinges on where we find valid crawlspace entrances. For example, if we prove that the murder was committed from below and the only crawlspace entrance is in, say, the bathroom, and the bathroom is revealed to be locked only from the inside? We're suddenly left with only Kurzuyuu as the only suspect, if Nidai is to be believed. Everyone else is accounted for, but Kurzuyuu could enter from the bathroom before the party started and bar the only entry, using his non-attendance as an alibi.

Rawkking fucked around with this message at 05:58 on Feb 27, 2013

Rawkking
Sep 4, 2011

slowbeef posted:

And again, if it's totally dark in the lodge, how is the killer able to see while under the floorboards to stab Togami?

You need to really put yourself in the shoes of someone who is underneath the floorboards to realize how viable it is. The old, creaky floorboards are maybe a few inches above your head, so everyone's footsteps are a lot more audible (about as loud as the people making conversation sound to the people above) than they are for people actually at the party.

Now, you're underneath the floorboards for some reason when all of the sudden a bunch of students start shouting at the top of their lungs about how the lights are out! You scamper over to where their voices are, and suddenly hear the resounding thuds of what is actually the heaviest cast member in the game running across the room above you, and to top it off he is yelling at someone. There is possibly even another *thud* as he body checks someone and then falls to the ground*. You were following these sounds and find a gap in the floorboards, and gingerly probe upwards with your skewer. You feel something soft before making the decision to stab upwards sharply as many times as you can.

* I think from the soundtrack that the *THUD* followed by the "ow!" we hear in the blackout audio clip is Togami hitting or tackling someone, but we can't be sure exactly what it was yet.

Rawkking fucked around with this message at 18:45 on Feb 28, 2013

Rawkking
Sep 4, 2011

Regy Rusty posted:

This whole under the floorboards thing is completely off base. I think the large gaps means that something is hidden between them, like perhaps the missing skewer. I don't think there's been anything to suggest that there's actually some kind of space underneath the floorboards and the evidence of Gundam's earring actually directly contradicts this possibility.

There's already proof. You can see what we're calling the crawlspace from outside. The only question is if someone could make or find a large enough break in the floorboards to get through.



The fact that Gundam says he doesn't have a tool long enough will probably be used as evidence that the knife couldn't be used to stab through the floorboards.

Rawkking
Sep 4, 2011
^ Yeah that doesn't at all preclude a long wire with a hook or something, you're the one assuming it has to be some kind of regular, standardized tool when this is a wannabe ninja we're talking about. We'll see who's right when the investigation reveals things, I suppose.

slowbeef posted:

I still say that's crazy. If Togami had never crawled on the ground to begin with, what? Your murder plan was to cause a blackout and just stab whoever hopefully lies down and exposes a vital spot to the floor?

The plan was probably something else, and addressing this question is very important yeah. I can't give a surefire guess at this point, but here's a couple:

For example Kurzuyuu could have been under there just waiting for an opportunity, perhaps someone isolating themselves and/or tripping on the floorboards that have already been remarked as dangerous to walk on.

Depending on how the skewer could be utilized, Hanamura could have gone after Peko when it was revealed that she was going on guard duty (perhaps hoping she would get tired and sit down?), but when the blackout happened changed his plan.

Rawkking fucked around with this message at 19:23 on Feb 28, 2013

Rawkking
Sep 4, 2011

The Chairman posted:

At the same time, Hanamura, with his skewer he hid for self-defense, felt his way into the room but ran into Togami; Hanamura panicked, stabbed Togami multiple times and dropped the skewer, which rolled into the cracks and onto the ground, while Togami tried to get under the table to protect himself, but was too late and bled out.

This theory directly contradicts that there are no blood trails leading to underneath the table. How would you explain this discrepancy?

Rawkking
Sep 4, 2011

The Chairman posted:

The skewer would cause deep but narrow wounds, so he wouldn't immediately spray blood everywhere upon being hit, maybe.

But it would start to violently spray just after he got underneath? Because the insides of the tablecloth are stained as well. I mean I think that's faintly possible, but I don't think it's plausible for someone to not bleed a small trail from eight stab wounds and I don't think from a meta perspective that a mystery game is going to randomly decide to give you a misleading evidence bullet:

(from the update)

Evidence Bullet Get posted:


Blood around the table



There is a pool of blood under the table, and the underside of the tablecloth was violently stained as well. There are no traces of a trail of blood.

Rawkking
Sep 4, 2011

slowbeef posted:

Can we just outright reject the "I'm hiding under the floorboards and just kinda hoping someone falls so I can stab them" theories?

It's ridiculous. If you went to the trouble of planning the timer air-conditioner to trip a fuse, and plant a knife with glow-in-the-dark tape, you are not gonna leave "I hope someone falls!" to chance.

Sorry if it wasn't clear in my latest post but I'm not claiming that an underneath the floorboards killer is responsible for the blackout and knife planting, but rather trying to explain why they wouldn't need to have triggered one to be under there already, so that they could be present when someone else triggered the blackout and then were able to take advantage of it nonetheless.

I'm not sure what else is viable to say about this topic so I'm going to change the subject to try to be constructive. Let's assume that he wasn't stabbed from underneath the floorboards.

How was Togami stabbed so many times such that he ended up in the position he was in? Especially since he was probably crawling at the least with the size of that table, so getting some of those gut stabs might be difficult. If it was with the knife, how did the killer avoid getting blood all over his hands and body, what with the violent spraying implying some arterial bleeding? And if he did get bloodied, how did he avoid getting discovered in the aftermath?

Edit: V I actually think that the killer finding out about the plan is a bit implausible, but it might have gone down that way. Hopefully the game will give a clue of how that could happen if so.

Rawkking fucked around with this message at 20:25 on Feb 28, 2013

Rawkking
Sep 4, 2011
I think part of what is making all these underneath the floorboards theories so aggravating to read about is that currently, practically none of us are in agreement of what and why the killer is up to stuff down there :v:

Edit: To be clear, I mean that with all the different but very similar theories flying around with the crazy high post count of this thread you can't keep straight who said what, and things from different theories do contradict each other, aiding to the irritation if you mix them up. For example people claiming that a floorboards killer rigged the blackout + knife as a trap, those claiming that a killer found out about someone else rigging the blackout + placing the knife in advance, and those claiming that they were separate plots by separate people and the killer was underneath the floorboards trying to do something else when the blackout occurred.

Rawkking fucked around with this message at 20:51 on Feb 28, 2013

Rawkking
Sep 4, 2011

slowbeef posted:

There absolutely is. Togami's under the table, he looks up at you, on his side. You stab him a bunch, he rolls down face down, dead.

I'm not contending that's what happened.

I am contending if you want to keep the "through the floorboards" theory, you have to eliminate chance. No murder plot involves the black out, the planted knife, and also "maybe someone will get down where I can stab them."

Just so I get your reasoning right, you are making the assumption that the size of the skewer and the state of the cracks render it impossible for anyone to make a kill on someone who isn't lying down like Togami? Not even if they were sitting on the ground, alone for some reason, like Pekoyama on guard duty? (Not that she probably got tired enough to sit down with how short her duty was before the blackout occurred)

Because I think that's a bit premature at this point, and your treating it like fact is, unless I'm misunderstanding you, what's causing you to then conclude that the killer has to have personally (or through a rather contrived accomplice/overhearing scenario I think we both think is unlikely) ensured that Togami ended up as he did so they could kill with the skewer.

If the killer has a bit more leverage than attacking only victims literally lying on the ground, aren't responsible for the blackout, and could through hearing of footsteps, conversations, and seeing what they could through the cracks reasonably have an idea of what was going on topside, it's not at all unreasonable for someone to wait for a good opportunity to kill an isolated and unaware target. And if the good opportunity doesn't present itself, there is the novel solution of giving up on the attempt for the time being.

Rawkking fucked around with this message at 03:13 on Mar 2, 2013

Rawkking
Sep 4, 2011
What triggers those fire doors? Do they trigger in case of fire, or did someone have to manually activate them? Automatic activation in case of blackout? Heck, we don't even know if they close to block the main hall, but I'm assuming they do since we've apparently seen all the rooms in the lodge (except the bathroom).

One possible combination of evidence: culprit uses the portable stove to somehow light a makeshift torch, allowing them to navigate in the dark.

If the fire doors /are/ somehow automatically locked by the presence of fire (yet there are no battery-operated fire alarms?), maybe the presence of such a torch activated them.



In speculation more of what is immediately about to occur, I wonder if anyone has any idea what we'll actually hope to find in Togami's lodge? I wasn't expecting to search there at all; maybe Nagito is just trying to keep Hinata from uncovering more evidence that would indicate Nagito either murdered or attempted to murder Togami (I think he was pretty clearly up to something at this point). There's always the possibility that Nagito's cheerful indication of trust of Hinata is deflecting the fact that Nagito plans to attack Hinata, but that's probably not the case.

Maybe we'll find nothing related to the murder, but accidentally run into more overarching plot evidence of what Togami was doing here on the island in the first place?

Rawkking
Sep 4, 2011
No crawlspace evidence in any of the rooms, and only the bathroom remains unsearched. We'll have to assume that no under-the-floorboards shenanigans took place unless one turns up in the bathroom.

And if we assume the fire doors were active during the blackout, that means that no one except Hanamura could have gotten to the storage room, who himself couldn't have gotten to the crime scene if he was actually in the kitchen. And due to being the one who went there post-blackout while everyone else was searching other places, Nagito was the only one who could have safely disposed of the bloodied cloth post-blackout without being seen by others, whether that tablecloth was used to wipe off blood post-murder or was utilized in the murder somehow, hidden elsewhere during the blackout, or retrieved and disposed in the storage room post-blackout.

Hanamura's dialogue doesn't necessarily imply he was in the party room (perhaps he just exited the kitchen and shouted his line, and the doors and walls between him weren't soundproof?), so unless we get some vital evidence in the bathroom, outside the cabin, Togami's lodge, or a reexamination of other rooms...welp.

It's Nagito, folks.

Basically the crawlspace murder being a thing is the only way I can think of for a non-Nagito murderer to pull this off, since at the very least it's exceedingly likely Nagito at least got blood on himself/got blood on a tablecloth he was carrying and was responsible for the knife's location, whether or not he actually killed Togami. And since he very likely got blood on himself and didn't tell anyone, it's very likely he at least tried to kill Togami or was going to try to kill someone with the knife.

Rawkking fucked around with this message at 04:58 on Mar 3, 2013

Rawkking
Sep 4, 2011
At the grand total of one (1) kitchens I've worked in, the drainage grates were built into the flooring, so to get down one you would have to cut through or otherwise break the grate somehow. Not to say that there couldn't be a liftable grate, but you can't assume that they are all liftable either.

If it wasn't investigated at this point, it's probably not relevant, though maybe the game is forcing you to miss it and someone else will bring it up in the trial.

Edit edit: Though Hanamura's testimony does claim that he found his way to the party room in the blackout, with no mention of a fire door...maybe there's hope for my favorite DR2 character after all...

Rawkking fucked around with this message at 05:10 on Mar 3, 2013

Rawkking
Sep 4, 2011
Murderer or attempted murderer, I think it's entirely in-character for Nagito to try to avoid having his actions be found out.

In the case of being the murderer he's got an obvious motive, in the case of being an attempted murderer he's going to want people to catch the correct murderer and get said person found guilty in the trial first so that everyone just assumes that said person was responsible for everything and dismisses their protests otherwise as the desperate words of a dying man.

Aside from the reasons anyone would want to avoid getting found out as a potential murderer (everyone is going to distrust you even more than Kurzuyuu, and will probably have you watched like a hawk) I think Nagito's flawed brand of SHSL Hope comes into this.

The guy that is trying to project an image of trust and friendship and getting everyone to work together tried to kill someone? Can you trust anyone after such a point? Better to keep the lie uncovered so everyone can keep hope.

(I don't necessarily agree with the above paragraph, but I think that's how Nagito would think from what we've seen of him. I think his surface optimism isn't entirely an act but more how he would like to be, but isn't.)

Rawkking fucked around with this message at 18:29 on Mar 3, 2013

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Rawkking
Sep 4, 2011

orenronen posted:

No... it's still possible this letter is just a prank... that this has nothing to do with Togami-kun's death...

...How? How can he say that?

He truly doesn't want to believe one of us is the culprit...

I don’t like the idea either, but... after everything I've seen, there really isn't any other possibility.
Whoever wrote this letter has to be the person who killed Togami.

And, in that case...

Could this person have foreseen how Togami would react, and sent the letter to manipulate him?
Did he just play right into their plans, so they could kill him in front of all of us?

...poo poo. Who would do that?

So, who wrote this letter?

Monobear would definitely do something like this, but assuming that isn't the case, and considering Hinata's hypothesis that it was part of a plan...

...the only person I can think of is Nagito himself. Nagito knew of (researched, according to himself) the students beforehand, and seems to have the greatest understanding of all the other students from what we've seen in general. And he had prepared those straws beforehand, upon which he proceeded to "lose" the drawing. You could dismiss all these as coincidences beforehand, but with all these pieces seeming the fit together...

It's also pretty clear from the evidence and especially what Nagito is nervous about (Mahiru's testimony, the storage room, Nagito's position) that Nagito at least tried to grab that knife and murder someone. And he was almost certainly responsible for the blackout as well: any other student could have pulled it off possibly, but the luminous paint on the knife seems to link it to Nagito pretty well. Just from a story perspective and Hanamura's claim to have moved past the fire doors in the dark I believe it was actually Hanamura underneath the floorboards. As much as I thought up interesting what-ifs about how this would be possible we can't really be sure. The only way that I think works is if Hanamura was able to enter from the boxes in the storage room.

And we still don't know why Hanamura (or anyone besides Nagito) would have planned to murder from the floorboards if Nagito planned the blackout. Maybe Hanamura was hoping to kill someone using the bathroom due to food mixed with laxatives, but someone else (Nagito again?) had kept the bathroom locked for a different reason?

Rawkking fucked around with this message at 19:23 on Mar 5, 2013

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