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Breakman posted:I didn't have any good time to post this until you guys brought it up, but I get the feeling that Monomi and Monobear are being operated by AI replications of the despair sisters (I'm one of the people that subscribes to the VR theory). Mukuro has a bunny hair clip with a bow early on in DR1, that's represented by a white bunny (pre-Monomi Usami). I've had a similar thought, but rather than my suspicions falling upon the Mono-bot siblings, I have felt that the entire cast might be some sort of 'half-a-step-off' AI replicants of the DR1 cast. Some have similar (or identical) names i.e. Togami and Nagito. Others have similar looks and/or personalities (Mahiru in particular made me think 'What's Mukuro doing alive and with red hair?'. Even the photography thing seems a bit telling). On that note, Mahiru playing the role of 'big sister' to our smarmy little twin-tailed celebrity sadist Saionji seems interesting (as I recall Mukuro was the 'older' sister of the twins). Well, this is probably wrong or coincidental so I won't go into it any further, unless future revelations vindicate me. Anyway, in the more immediately relevant: Most of the relevant points regarding the case (that we know so far at least) have been pretty thoroughly discussed. Lots of suspicions regarding the rules surrounding the timing of the death announcement, whether or not the killer can be counted as a discoverer, who is most suspicious (Sonia and Peko seem to be topping this list) etc... It's just a random thought, but I feel I should point out that just because the time of death was 3:00, doesn't guarantee that she was attacked at that time. Given the amount of blood, it may have taken her some time to expire. That is to say, that just because Hinata saw someone at 3:00 doesn't guarantee they are in the clear. For all we know, Souda set up his 2:30 meeting time with Hinata (that he was slightly late to) just to create an alibi. Of course this assumes that Souda somehow divined that Mahiru would take a while to die and created this scenario to give himself an alibi. This leaves plenty of unanswered questions though. But this is just a preliminary theory from someone who has read a few too many mysteries.
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Jul 2, 2013 21:24
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PerogiXW posted:Don't forget about DR1's second murder. The trial was basically pointing at Togami, then Fukawa, then Togami, then Fukawa again before it finally settled on Mondo. The parallels here are rather distressing. Yet again, we have a serial killer brought into the plot just in time for a murder, an expert on this serial killer (Sonia), and said expert on this serial killer knows something relating to the case. So- will it turn out that someone (i.e. Peko) is this Kirakira? Will they be guilty or innocent? Or is this all a plot by Sonia to distract them from her own guilt? Just the fact that the second case in the first game played this exact same opening gambit makes me feel like the truth here is anything but the same. I don't really want to meta-game this though. Just because Fukawa was a serial killer but didn't actually murder anyone (in game that is), doesn't guarantee that Peko is a serial killer and did. The entire angle might be a red herring. Maybe even the water bottles. There isn't any evidence of blood being washed off that Hinata found... Nor even any residual moisture. Dumping that many bottles of water over yourself would leave quite a bit of water lying around. And, if you didn't dry yourself off, there'd be wet spots all over the floor where you walked. Of course, if you were standing over a drain, most of it would vanish quickly. Hinata didn't check the shower though. But it really didn't appear like there were any traces of blood in there, unless they were very subtle. ...Now that I think about it, Peko showed up at the diner in her swimsuit. But the footprints leading away from the crime scene were quite obviously shoes. Or boots.  Also, now that I look at it, there might be an overlooked smudge of blood on an upside-down surf board in the closet. Or whatever that purplish object is supposed to be.
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Jul 2, 2013 23:23
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W.T. Fits posted:I doubt that Nagito would have been an accomplice in this case for one simple reason: we would have seen him leaving the scene of the crime. But that goes for everyone... Hinata could clearly see the entrance to the tunnel from where he was sitting and the only person who came out, from the time he and Souda got there at about 3:00, was Saionji. He didn't see anyone else come out. Nanami came into the diner right after Saionji fled the beach house. The footprints in the sand lead to the tunnel and not the beach, so whoever left them didn't flee to the ocean and swim away. If we assume those footprints belong to Saionji (they probably do, she was wearing heeled sandals), then the killer must have either left the tunnel and snuck their way into the group while Hinata was too busy staring at Nanami's gazongas (this doesn't really bring up any new suspects since Akane, Peko and Sonia all arrived after Nanami, in that order), or else they never came out. Hinata missing one person sneaking by to head to or from the beach house I can believe. He was pretty fascinated by Nanami's... swimsuit. But two (or even three if you count Nagito making a round trip in and out without anyone noticing separately)? Now we're getting to pretty shaky ground. That beach is entirely enclosed, with the only ways out being the tunnel and the water. Possibilities I can see:
I think I'll suspect Souda for now. It'd certainly be an exciting development, at least. Knicknevin fucked around with this message at 03:32 on Jul 3, 2013 |
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Jul 3, 2013 03:29
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Somebody fucked around with this message at 21:05 on Jul 3, 2013 |
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Jul 3, 2013 04:24
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blizzardvizard posted:Have we been shown a map of the area anywhere? The game keeps talking about 'tunnel-side' and 'beach-side' and I'm a bit confused as to what they are referring to. The tunnel entrance. Diner has a clear view of it.  Tunnel side door. Mahiru was leaning on this door so Hinata and Souda had to go around. Shower room window above was possibly an escape route if the killer didn't want to leave footprints.  Area map. Note that the mountain completely encloses the area.  Beach side door. Everyone came in this way. One set of footprints leading out.  Check update #41 for more. Also check the image of Saionji running away to get an idea of just how hard it would be for someone to get out of the tunnel and possibly go to the diner unnoticed- its a wide open parking lot in front of the tunnel. Narsham posted:
This assumes that the killer isn't counted as the first discoverer. I'm betting Monobear would count the killer toward the three needed to make a discovery official. Otherwise, situations could arise where the suspects can easily be narrowed down (if three people find the body and there isn't an announcement, then clearly one of them is the killer). Those kinds of developments are boring. For that matter, if Mahiru wasn't dead when the killer left the beach house, he or she doesn't even have to be the first discoverer. Knicknevin fucked around with this message at 05:44 on Jul 3, 2013 |
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Jul 3, 2013 05:37
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I've got a preliminary scenario in my mind for how Souda could have carried out the murder. I've already gone over parts of it: If the actual attack took place at more like 2:30, and it took Mahiru a while to die, then Souda's actions become suspicious. Also, the murder taking place before 3:00 could explain why Hinata saw no one coming or going aside from Saionji. But I found a blind spot in all of our assumptions, and a Souda theory would fill in a crucial gap. It's this- we all have been assuming that, after the killer was boosted out the window, the accomplice walked out via the beach. But what if the accomplice never left? Picture this: Nagito, who Souda (or Mahiru...) released beforehand, agrees to assist Souda get away with the murder, and boosts him out the window. Then he sets up a few red herrings (the mask? The water bottles? If he or Souda saw Peko swimming they might have done that to cast suspicion on her), watches over Mahiru to make sure she dies, and then hides in the bathroom. Saionji, who was unconscious in the closet for some reason, wakes up, finds Mahiru, and flees out the only available door, forcing her to cross the beach and leave footprints. Then Souda returns to the crime scene, becoming the 'third discoverer'(first and second being Nagito and Saionji), and when he and Nagito hear Hinata start around the side of the building after finding the tunnel side door blocked, Souda boosts Nagito out the window and quickly goes back to the front room to meet Hinata. Nagito should have time to flee while everyone else is confused by the announcement (which didn't actually say where the body was, so it's not like they all came running straight to the beach house). I like this theory. Doesn't rely on the overly obvious. It's probably going to be proven wrong as new evidence comes to light (it really depends on what Saionji says and whether or not it took a while for Mahiru to die), but this satisfies me for now. Edit: Kuzuryuu's testimony will probably be essential as well. That envelope was questionable- was there information from Monobear inside? Photos Mahiru took? The way he blanched when Souda mentioned having a plan was also fairly telling. I'm pretty sure Kuzuryuu never actually went to the crime scene though. It seemed like he was heading toward the tunnel rather than away when Hinata and Souda saw him. But it wasn't really specified. Guess we'll find out later. Knicknevin fucked around with this message at 16:44 on Jul 3, 2013 |
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Jul 3, 2013 16:24
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It occurs to me to wonder: if Peko was the murderer, and she was wet when she arrived at the diner because she washed off after the crime, does this actually make sense? Now bear in mind I'd operating on the assumption that the killer already fled the scene by the time Hinata and Souda got to the diner. This was at 3:00. For them to have escaped any later than that would require them to be a ninja or to somehow be able to divine from the tunnel that 'Everyone in the diner is distracted by Nanami's boobolas, time to go'. So the killer washed off right after the killing, presumably a few minutes before 3:00, dumped the empty water bottles into the trash, and booked it somehow (not going into that). If it was Peko, she then loiters around someplace where no one else would see her for half an hour or so, then heads into the diner, arriving after Nanami and Akane. Since it was 3:30 before people started showing up, and Peko came near the tail end of the group, it was probably 3:40-45ish. She's still soaking wet. Wait- what? 45 minutes in the sun should be more than adequate to dry off someone wearing a swimsuit on a tropical island. Did she go into the water from some other location to get wet again? Why would she do that? To lend credence to her 'I went looking for the other islands' story? And why such an unbelievable story? She should have been able to show up bone dry and nobody would suspect a thing, so why show up wet after leaving a bunch of incriminating water bottles at the crime scene? She could have simply returned to her cabin and dried off. This doesn't smell right. Unless we get some evidence that Peko had some method to leave the beach house after 3:00 without being noticed, I can't properly suspect her. Edit: drat. Well, I don't even remember what was in my own post that was deleted, hah. Still a sorry business. Think I'll hang back till a few more updates go by just to be on the safe side. Knicknevin fucked around with this message at 03:36 on Jul 5, 2013 |
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Jul 3, 2013 21:01
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100percentjesusfree posted:
However things turn out my money is on the doorknob being what actually killed her. Anyway, I'll be quiet for a while now.
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Jul 5, 2013 03:38
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Rabidredneck posted:Speakng of the Dangan Ronpa anime...filez Man. They're really trying to cram it in as few episodes as possible. Introduction in the gym, rules kind of glossed over, no free time conversations at all. Movies didn't even have that cheerfully ironic "What happened to your friends/family? FIND OUT AFTER GRADUATION!". Ugh. I don't know for sure but I remember hearing it was only going to be like 12 episodes as well? How on earth... At least they got the music right. Somebody fucked around with this message at 01:28 on Jul 6, 2013 |
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Jul 5, 2013 16:45
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We can already infer alot just from the situation. This case is essentially a closed room murder. The isolation of the crime scene and the fact that there is only a single way in or out that the 'detective' of this story was watching from the supposed time of the murder up to the discovery of the body give it a locked room vibe. To borrow a page from Kirigiri in the first game- Closed room murders follow one of 4 basic patterns:
Other tricks could also be in play here. The timing of the discovery, the possibility that Mahiru might have taken a while to die (if she were attacked much before 3:00 almost everyone's alibis go out the window), leaving the mask at the scene, the empty water bottles, even leaving Saionji alone at the scene despite the fact that she's a witness: all of them should be doubted. Any one of these could be a ruse by the killer to lead everyone else off target. My personal suspicions about Souda, for example, center mostly around the fact that everything just seems too drat convenient for him- he scheduled Hinata to meet him at 2:30 (and was a bit late), then leads him to the diner at 3:00, where they sit around for most of an hour for no real reason. Then is the first to discover the body in a place he couldn't have gone before then, and the victim died at a time when he has a perfect alibi (he was with the protagonist). His alibi is so perfect I can't help but feel it is actually suspiciously perfect. I might just have a paranoid mind though. Patware posted:Reading Too Much Into Things with Super Dangan Ronpa 2 Reading into things too much? Now who would do a silly thing like that... *cough* Knicknevin fucked around with this message at 07:00 on Jul 6, 2013 |
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Jul 6, 2013 06:53
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jabberwockyx posted:The murderer can't trigger the body announcement because they don't count towards the "three people must discover the body" rule -- We don't actually know that. Let's be fair, Monobear may be a stickler for the rules, but anything not in the rules is fair game. And the rules don't specifically say the killer can't 'discover' a body. The rules haven't been used that way (thus far), but if it was somehow essential for making the trial more interesting, I can see Monobear making that call.
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Jul 6, 2013 13:08
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From what I've gathered from twitter and such, it's true. However, NISA is only porting the first game (despite using the Vita version), and they are doing their own translation- they aren't going to be using Project Zetsubou's, or the LP. So it will likely be a year or more before we see it here. And again, while I'm not 100% positive, all signs point to only the first game being licensed at this point. Bear in mind that both games were released separately in Japan. And are being RE-released on the Vita. It doesn't really behoove them to bundle both games together for the initial western release (if NISA wanted to be real cads, they would remove all the extra content as well to sell as DLC or to bundle in the future). Geg posted:Funimation did apparently license the anime so maybe they'd just use their voices if Funimation wants to dub it. I'd pay good money to hear Steve Blum voice Hagakure. Call Now posted:Is that supposed to be surprising or what? Companies picking up fan translations and their translators is not unheard of in the Visual Novel scene. So it bore saying. Knicknevin fucked around with this message at 00:31 on Jul 7, 2013 |
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Jul 7, 2013 00:25
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:I think it'd be more fitting for Jim Cummings to voice Monobear, since he was Winnie the Pooh and all. Probably pretty close. I'd say Bret Iwan (Mickey Mouse) would be more fitting though of course there's no way that could happen. Edit: Anyway, I guess the elephant in the room here is whether this LP is going to continue or if we'll find it quietly locked sometime soon. I'm no law student but I don't believe NISA has any legal grounds to force it closed (else every other company with an IP and a grudge would have been shutting down Let's Plays left and right), but that's not to say Oren and Fedule won't do so anyway out of respect for NISA's wishes. Of course, only the first game has been licensed. Re-edit: Oh Gawd I just saw one of those DR1 spoiler ads for the first time. Really guys? I know the translation patch was released recently but come on, that's pretty goddamn low. Knicknevin fucked around with this message at 02:12 on Jul 7, 2013 |
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Jul 7, 2013 01:27
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Kind of random but it occurs to me that we've had two cases in a row where one of the sticking points is 'something up so high you can't reach it'. In the first case, it was the fuse box. Now, the window. I guess there aren't any ladders on this island.
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Jul 7, 2013 04:06
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Admiral H. Curtiss posted:As a rule, you should never take any English in a Japanese-language product for perfect and valid. Many Japanese people do not speak English very well, and as a result a lot of the English used in games and similar is just there 'because it sounds/looks cool'. Kind of like the people who get tattoos in Japanese or Chinese despite not knowing what they say. Which, often times, aren't what they think...
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Jul 7, 2013 04:27
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Guess I missed all the excitement. While I didn't really know who Ryan Davis was prior to oren mentioning him, the news of someone only a year older than me dying of 'natural causes' is enough to warrant some reflection. Anyway, Souda did it. 100%. Unless it was someone else. DaveWoo posted:
Well we do have a resident crazy person. Others have theorized that Peko might have used her Shinai case to get up there somehow. Maybe with the intent of pinning the blame on Saionji who was knocked out (or something) in the closet, and had to flee across the beach leaving the only set of tracks. Knicknevin fucked around with this message at 20:39 on Jul 12, 2013 |
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Jul 12, 2013 20:36
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Lotta new info in this update... I expected the game to be important, but drat son. We just entered a whole new ball game. If Monomi let Nagito out, we can probably write him off as an accomplice. Probably. Maybe. Possibly. Just from this it seems like the field of suspects has been narrowed considerably. Or it's meant to look that way. The story line of the game, by all appearances, would be that F-suke killed E-ko in revenge for E-ko murdering his sister. Characters in the game are clearly meant to mirror the female cast (minus Sonia, Nanami and Peko) plus the brother: A-ko is clearly Mikan. Too jittery and easy to abuse. B-ko is clearly Saionji. Too much of a tongue-lasher to be anyone else. C-ko would be Ibuki. Kind of a hard read but process of elimination puts her here. You can kind of see it though in a few lines. D-ko would be Mahiru. Taking photos and being mostly level-headed etc. E-ko is killed in game so one would assume she was Satou. F-suke is obviously Kuzuryuu. He's the only male character with a name mentioned in the game. Twice, in fact. All this casts Kuzuryuu in a pretty terrible light. Motive is kind of blurry though... It might be that Kuzuryuu killed Mahiru because he was afraid his previous crime would be exposed? Did she try to blackmail him like she did Satou? That would make the basic motive of this case pretty close to the second case of the first game: secrets. Of course, this seems so obvious it's probably wrong. And it doesn't explain things like the lack of footprints, the empty water bottles, or the mask. It could be that the real killer in the game was neither F-suke or E-ko but someone else... Which would mean Mikan, Saionji and Ibuki would be our primary suspects? We reallllly need to hear Saionji's side of the story. And Kuzuryuu's of course, though knowing him he'll deny everything.
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Jul 12, 2013 23:15
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MonsterEnvy posted:
Well, Hope's Peak IS supposed to be a super elite, invitation only school. It's not impossible or anything, just unlikely. Still, unless you want to doubt Monobear, it happened. Twice, since we had twins in the first game as well. MonsterEnvy posted:
We don't know that. Hinata only said Kuzuryuu was 'walking by' without making it clear which direction he was going. Unless there was some detail lost in translation, I'd say it's more likely he was on his way TO the beach. Perhaps to confront Mahiru about what he learned from the envelope and the game. I just feel like if he was coming FROM the beach, Hinata would have made it clearer. Instead he just said that he and Souda noticed Kuzuryuu 'walking past the diner'.
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Jul 14, 2013 02:05
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This whole situation looks incredibly grim for Kuzuryuu. But I think that this situation is entirely manufactured. The real killer played that game as well and probably got the whole truth. And realized the same as we did who the cast of the game was, and what this means for Kuzuryuu. And how easy it would be to frame him. They made the crime similar to the murder in the game, because they knew others would play the game as well, and this would place suspicion upon the people in that game. They killed Mahiru, not because they had any personal motive to do so but because they knew someone else had a motive. I kind of feel like this entire plot thread was a massive red herring. Though I'm sure this is all important, it's all designed to make people jump to easy conclusions and stop thinking while they pat themselves on the back. Virtually anyone could have committed the crime, as long as they played the game all the way through. And plenty of people probably did, given all the night traffic Hinata met up with on his way there himself. It's really hard to pin down a suspect... Sonia knowing about KiraKira and showing up in that wetsuit makes her suspicious. Peko showing up at the diner soaking wet, and the empty water bottles make her suspicious. The convenient timing of Souda's meeting with Hinata and him being the first at the scene makes him suspicious. Kuzuryuu having a clear motive and a folder full of secret info makes him suspicious. Saionji being at the crime scene for a full half hour before running away leaving the only footprints makes her suspicious. Nanami's sudden burst of motivation after the murder took place makes her suspicious... Hell, even Mahiru's actions and motives become suspect when you realize she was complicit in the first murder and possibly the second (she was the first to find the body of Satou).
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Jul 14, 2013 14:18
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SingerOfW posted:
I can't bring myself to suspect Peko simply because her alibi is so goddamn bizarre. I mean, if she showed up and said 'I tried to swim to the other islands but that flying monobeast came and I had to turn back', I could buy that. And I could suspect that story if it came down to it. But who makes their alibi for murder 'I tried swimming to the other islands and they just weren't there'? That story is too strange. I don't think you could make something like that up. Or expect anyone to believe it if you did. The significance of the water bottles, as far as I can tell, is just to show that the killer rinsed off any blood that got on them after the murder. And while Peko does show up wet, I don't think the timing right- she showed up at the diner more than 30 minutes after the murder. Maybe closer to an hour. On a sunny tropical island. Why is she still wet? The killer must have fled the diner before Hinata showed up at 3:00ish or he'd have seen them coming out of the tunnel. Should be plenty of time to dry off. Right now we still need to talk to Sonia, Saionji and Kuzuryuu. I think we can all guess what Sonia is gonna say. Kuzuryuu is probably not gonna cooperate- regardless of his guilt or innocence we'll probably have to get the truth out of him at the trial. And it'll likely be like pulling teeth without anesthesia. So unless someone else has any significant testimony, it looks like Saionji is gonna be the last big infodump before the trial. Hopefully she has something useful and is willing to cooperate. I'm guessing the next update oren is gonna go talk to Sonia at the library. Hopefully her exposition is brief, so we have time to see Saionji or Kuzuryuu as well. Or she might have some other info.
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Jul 14, 2013 17:18
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Oliver Crowley posted:
I think she's just putting up a front. But more importantly, she didn't leave the scene of the crime till more than half an hour after Mahiru died. I'm assuming the killer knocked her out (the closet was kind of messy, maybe signs of a struggle), or else maybe she fell asleep or fainted when she saw what happened. Still begs the question of why the killer didn't attack her as well. Unless the killer really is KiraKira and went all Dexter on Mahiru since she either helped murder someone, or maybe even killed someone herself. Van Dine posted:Not necessarily. In the first Dangan Ronpa's second chapter, the murderer didn't count, and one person couldn't be counted twice. Granted. But thus far, the murderers in every case haven't tried to create an alibi for themselves by being a discoverer. Oowada wasn't with the first discoverer's group so Monobear didn't need to show his hand. I have the feeling Monobear would play along if he thought it'd make things more interesting. Making the culprit so obvious himself isn't really the Monobear style. Even his Monobear Files tend to be missing large chunks of important information. Particularly anything that could directly unravel the killer's alibi. Knicknevin fucked around with this message at 02:35 on Jul 16, 2013 |
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Jul 16, 2013 02:31
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Oliver Crowley posted:In that chapter, Monobear woke everyone up individually in the morning since the murder took place late at night. He specifically says he did this to "stir things up". Maybe. But that begs the obvious question 'How did no one notice Sonia leaving the beach house when Saionji was seen plain as day?'. I've always been assuming this means the killer left the beach house before Hinata and Souda made it to the diner. Otherwise the killer would have to cross that wide open space without anyone seeing them. Granted Hinata was pretty distracted when Nanami walked in... orenronen posted:And when I looked over there as well... Seems kind of convenient that the killer made a clean getaway because of circumstances outside of their own actions or control though. So I don't really like the idea.
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Jul 16, 2013 04:36
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Beautiful Days [Piano Arrange]
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Tea Bee posted:Who knows? They might be going the Phoenix Wright route and revealing it before the case starts, but making it hard to prove he's guilty. I can only recall that happening in maybe one case, my memory is a bit fuzzy in that regard though. I'd call it more of a Columbo thing. Is saying that showing my age? Anyway this development was... unexpected. I had some hope Saionji would be convinced to talk, but it seems she's calmed down and clammed up. Kuzuryuu is as uncooperative as I had expected, though maybe Hinata can draw him out and get at least a little out of him before the trial. Looks like Sonia is probably the last large bit if evidence we'll be getting before the trial. Hmmph. Well, maybe she'll surprise me somehow, but it feels like what she has to say is probably the only really predictable thing in this case. Though that doesn't guarantee it's true. Well... We've got our suspects all in a row at this point I'd say. Ibuki and Mikan don't really seem suspicious, and our thoughts are certainly being guided to the most obvious suspect Kuzuryuu. Saionji is surprisingly calm given how panicked she seemed earlier when she fled the crime scene. Peko's response to the murder was rather cold but the grounds to suspect her are thin at best. Souda... doesn't seem related to this crime at all, but the timing of everything he did today seems convenient enough to be suspicious. Sonia seems to be in the clear- she couldn't have changed into that wetsuit in the beach house, so the only thing tying her to the case is her interest in serial killers and that mask. Stabbey_the_Clown posted:The game probably is pushing Kuzuryuu too hard for it to be true, but am I the only one who thinks it would be refreshing if Kuzuryuu dies still an rear end in a top hat? Not every jerk is hiding a soft side. The only question is whether Kuzuryuu acted on that motive, or if someone else is trying to make it look like he did. Still, for that envelope to have made it into Mahiru's cabin... Wait. The cabin was unlocked before Hinata and Nanami got there. In theory anyone could have left that envelope there. Though we know Kuzuryuu was the one who originally got it...
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Jul 18, 2013 15:33
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kidcoelacanth posted:Who's the only person who's been able to get through to Kuzuryuu to this point in the game? Peko. Just sayin'. Why would she kill herself?
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Jul 18, 2013 17:08
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xedo posted:This was supposed to be Usami railroading these kids that had already been friends for two years into becoming friends a second time to create 'hope shards.' It's a truly bizarre premise as it is without factoring in questions like, at what point in the last two years did Monoworld come about, and how did Togami get involved with this? Emphasis mine. Lord_Ventnor posted:Memory Wipe This current conversation... Something just clicked in my head. Maybe I'm overthinking things, taking the ball and running in the completely wrong direction with it, but I think this is an important question: Do you really think they were all friends? If anything I think it's the opposite and that the point of this was, originally, to reconcile them. Right after he lays down the rules, Monobear tells everyone that they already have motives to kill one another. Which if you believe him would mean the only reason they aren't killing one another is because they have amnesia. So someone set this whole thing up, gave everyone amnesia, and tried to make them all friends again. Maybe they are even televising it, to rebuke Junko's broadcast. In fact it was probably supposed to be a complete reversal of Junko's own project- whereas Junko wanted to create despair by taking the students that represented 'Hope' and drive them to despair, Usami and whoever is behind her wanted to take the most negative, hostile, despairing or despair inducing group and make them all feel 'Hope'. As for Togami, I'd put him at the top of the list of people who could set up the original plan, and it would make some sense for him to do so. This almost certainly is the same Togami we knew from the first game, albeit plus a few hundred pounds. He even implied, not long before he died, that he'd been through some sort of similar situation. He was highly motivated not to let things fall apart like they have. I wonder if he even had amnesia. Clearly, he can't have been in both this class and the one from the previous game. Assuming he set this up it would seem likely that he infiltrated the group to keep an eye over things. Hell, the 'traitor' Monobear mentioned might not have been referring to Monobear's master but rather Togami. Wait... I wonder. If the original class had 16 members, the same as in the first game, then Kuzu-sis and Satou being killed would leave two openings for outsiders to slip in, right? Who is the other? Well, there's no guarantee the class only had 16 people. Togami didn't seem to be focusing his doubts on anyone in particular, which you'd think he would if there was a second outsider. None of this solves the current case anyway. Just food for thought.
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Jul 20, 2013 07:40
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Oliver Crowley posted:I've been pondering that maybe it's a VR system created by the survivors of DR1 to rebuke Monobear like you said. Since a rule of Monobear's first game was no outside interference, maybe they all decided to have Naegi (Nagito, almost undoubtedly)and Togami as inside men or something. Something feels off about Nagito and Togami being in cahoots. Mostly due to the fact that Nagito is crazy as a goddamn loon. I suppose he might have cracked under the pressure at some point and just kept it well hidden. Or maybe the purpose of this exercise was never as charitable as we were led to believe and everything is going according to plan. My feelings about the VR theory are mixed in general but it seems like the only way to explain a lot of things (though if we believe Peko's story about trying to swim to the other islands that clears the main suspect everyone seems to be homing in on in the current case), but it raises as many questions as it answers.
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Jul 20, 2013 13:32
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HGH posted:Wasn't the large amount of blood splatters added as evidence that she crawled after getting hit in the head? Crawled or was dragged. Either way the Peko/Kuzu alliance suspicions still fail to explain how our supposed accomplice got out without leaving a trail. Killer went out the window with a boost? Okay. Sure. Where did the booster go? Walk through the wall? Someone walked across the beach, but only one person. Saionji left the beach house as well, and it seems pretty sure she was inside when Mahiru was killed. ...For that matter, with the position she's sitting in, would Mahiru even prevent the door from opening? She's at the hinges. Could Hinata really not push aside one dead girl in a position with poor leverage to stop the door from opening? Or was there some other reason the door wouldn't open?
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Jul 21, 2013 01:38
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unwnd posted:We did see Kuzuryuu "walking past the diner" after the time of the murder with no indication as to which direction he came from or left. Chances are, if he was at the crime scene, he just left via the normal way and Souda / Hinata caught him, though it's hard to tell as his bad attitude automatically makes him look suspicious. I'm gonna laugh if Hinata clarifies this in the trial and says 'Oh yeah he was coming from the other direction so he never got to the beach house'. So many theories going down in flames all at once. Other entertaining possible highlights would be Nidai turning out to have been dead all this time (to mirror the first victim in Twilight), that Mahiru was KiraKira, killed Satou and was attempting to kill Kuzuryuu or Saionji but was killed in genuine self-defense, or someone verifying Peko's claim to have been out swimming for hours. Or Akane turning out to actually be really devious and making it look like the window was unreachable alone when in fact the SHSL gymnast could leap up there easily. Or Nanami turning out to be the killer and is leading Hinata through all the 'evidence' she prepared in order to frame Kuzuryuu and/or Peko (nah, never suspect the suddenly super helpful ones, right Celes?). Or all of the above. This is gonna be an entertaining trial.
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Jul 22, 2013 19:18
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TKMobile posted:d) Junko, who got better I swear, if it turns out she chickened out (maybe quite literally, given she still had 4 chickens chock full o blood left) at the last second and actually went down the trash chute like Naegi... all my respect for her goes down there with her. I've been assuming he's an AI, possibly built by Chihiro before his memory was wiped, and modified by Junko. You know what... Towards the end of the first game, there was a few points where Naegi and Kirigiri tried talking to Monobear but his responses were just gibberish/static. No explanation or reason for this was ever given and it just went down as a minor irrelevant oddity. I wonder if this was actually Junko setting up the Monobear AI and working the kinks out.
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Jul 25, 2013 18:34
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AlgoRhythmic posted:Using Kibougamine is pretty ridiculous yeah. I'm also wondering why stuff like "High roller" and "All-star" are used instead of just gambler and baseball player like in orens translation, it just makes no sense to me. Well, I'm not gonna argue about the decisions they made with the more liberal translations or the titles and such like those you mentioned. If you want to hear their arguments and reasons, they are all on display on their own site. With regards to place names, I'd usually defer to whatever makes the best phonetic sense, or possibly which is most relevant (Hope's Peak is a name fairly relevant to the story so I don't agree with leaving it as Kibougamine). When it comes to names, however, I'm fairly anal-retentive about the matter. I use 'Monobear' since that is the norm here, but in general I really, really loathe it when character names are given literal translations. Too many kung-fu movie horror stories, especially the ones that get major theatrical releases. I swear every single female character is named 'Moon' or something equally boring in the subtitles. Names, to me, are not something to be translated, because they signify more than just the literal meaning of the words. I mean, we don't call Sakura 'Cherry Tree/Blossom' or Mikan 'Mandarin' or anything like that. So why only translate the Japanese half of Monokuma, and only that particular name? Why not the Greek half as well, and call him Onebear? I like Onebear. Not trying to stir the pot or anything, just saying. Not everyone is beholden to the same standards when considering what is an 'acceptable' translation or localization. HorribleSubs however, live up to their name. Knicknevin fucked around with this message at 01:34 on Jul 27, 2013 |
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Jul 27, 2013 01:30
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Stabbey_the_Clown posted:
Generally speaking that works very poorly. Or at least in my personal experience. You may be able to cover the tracks but you can't really hide the fact that the ground is disturbed. Though that's probably thinking too deeply about it anyway. We didn't find any palm fronds in the garbage. And anyway, one of the original rules was 'Don't litter or damage the environment', so I'd say this possibility is pretty much a write off anyway. Hmm... I might do my own breakdown of things in a few days, once I've had time to mull things over a bit. If Mahiru died instantly, as Mikan told us, that writes off a possibility like Souda having attacked her at 2:30 and rushing to the meeting with Hinata while Mahiru slowly dies. Thus, the attacker was in the beach house at 3:00. As were Saionji and Mahiru of course... Seems like the argument has pretty much come right back to the original problem. The killer, Saionji, and at least one other witness needed to leave the beach house during the period Hinata and Souda were in the diner (unless Saionji was the killer in which case we need two witnesses). Without leaving any tracks. Kuzuryuu was seen in the area, but Hinata didn't make it clear where he had come from or where he was going. Ibuki and Mikan showed up shortly after. Saionji came out of the tunnel at 3:30ish. No idea what she doing for that missing half hour. The other girls trickled in afterward, each with their own cover story (Akane was fighting Nidai, Sonia was struggling to get into her wetsuit, Peko was trying to swim to the other islands, and Nanami was... not really asked if I recall. Hinata too busy ogling.).
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Jul 27, 2013 15:19
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Kangra posted:It's now a sure thing that someone intentionally moved and posed Koizumi's body. It seems that the only reason to do that is to match the Twilight Murder game. We cannot, however, be sure that the killer is the one who did this. That makes it possible for the killer to have left out the door after washing up. With the timing of everything, and the note, and just my own general deduction, I am fairly sure that Saionji moved Mahiru. Though by no means does this mean she's the killer. Moving Mahiru might have been something as innocent as just propping her up before realizing she was dead. Any way you slice it though, unless the killer used some trick that we've had no justification for at all, like pole vaulting out the window or disguising their tracks, they either left before Mahiru got moved to the door, or never left at all. But the only theories I could come up with regarding that were that Souda or Akane (the only two with opportunity) boosted the killer out before Hinata checked the bathroom. Possible, but how likely? Not particularly. ...When Kuzuryuu got intercepted by Souda and Hinata by the diner, he was clearly flustered, maybe even panicked. So, while I now am starting to think he was one of our 'discoverers' I don't think he had any premeditated intentions going in there. I'm not discounting the possibility he ran into the killer and negotiated some kind of deal or made some sort of promise, but his behaviour is not that of someone who coldly convinced someone else to do his dirty work with the intention of tossing them under the bus afterwards. He looked like he'd gotten in a bit over his head honestly. I don't think he knew about the murder ahead of time, or did any persuading to convince someone to kill her. Regardless of who the killer is, unless Saionji boosted the killer out the window (not bloody likely), she must have been the one to move the corpse. There's just no way for the killer to leave otherwise. As for who the killer is... well. If we discount the possibility of Kuzuryuu or Saionji planning something with the killer ahead of time, that would mean our killer is someone who both knew about the meeting Mahiru was trying to plan as well as the truth of the arcade game. And they probably knew about the beach party as well, since they went out of their way to reschedule Mahiru's meeting, possibly to avoid crossing tracks with anyone else (but since the killer chose the beach house, which a group was planning to use in just a few more hours, maybe the killer didn't know). I'm also guessing Saionji was detained by the killer in the closet of the beach house, to prevent her from accidentally bumping into Mahiru and blowing the plan. Hm.... There's also the matter of the missing bathing suit from the arcade game. I kind of feel like it's significant. As for whose swimsuits may be missing, hmm.....
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Jul 28, 2013 00:33
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Brony Hunter posted:I hope the body count increases compared to the last game, and the final trial is just Hinata and two/three others at most. If that happens I don't see how the trials can continue at all. Once the group got worn down to seven in the first game, the killings stopped and the trials only continued due to Junko's meddling. The only death from Chapter 4 on was Sakura's suicide. Once the cast of this gets whittled down to any less than six I don't really see how the game can continue at all. Anyone who hasn't committed a murder at this point already isn't likely going to change their mind at the eleventh hour. With the remaining survivors all being clever enough to have seen through the previous 4 or 5 tricks the killers used, and so few to work with anyway, the odds are pretty heavily stacked against any killers after the third round or so. I mean really- the only way a killer would be getting away with it, under the current circumstances, is if he or she killed both Hinata and Nanami. For that matter, this time around, since Monobear revealed the state of the world point blank right at the start, his usual incentives won't work either. He seems wholly reliant upon the groups pre existing motives to push the murders forward. Once the group gets down to the dregs it'll be hard to inspire a murder between those left. At least until he tells everyone what the story behind that timer is, since it is quite obviously a time bomb. Though of course it might not turn out to be the obvious. Alberenza posted:I can get why people prefer the individual mysteries and characters over the over arching plot and such, but I'm not sure why people would complain too much about it when that arching plot and side stories primarily explore characters such as Junko and a few others, who's motivation is primarily to set up the parts that everyone finds more interesting, ie the actual murder mystery. I think this is just a symptom of a much larger trend affecting the population as a whole. Though it's not something that really belongs in this topic... Essentially, it comes down to the rise of 'realism' in popular entertainment (reality TV, 'realistic' superhero movies in the ilk of Man of Steel, even the currently most popular fantasy series is heavily grounded in fairly unsurprising motives and plots and has pretty run of the mill fantasy mechanics). The death of science fiction in general (even Star Trek is just a big budget action movie that happens to be set in space now), the death of 'high' fantasy (Game of Thrones is low fantasy/soft porn), the vanishing of shows focused on the paranormal (aside from vampires, which are about as unoriginal as it gets now)... I think people as a whole are losing interest in the fantastic or futuristic. Although we are still getting a few big budget offerings in each genre every year or so, I can't help but feel like the well of inspiration in those genres has run dry, and what we have left is just a final few desperate wrings of the cloth. You could write an entire paper about why this is happening but this is derailing too much.
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Jul 30, 2013 01:41
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Something had been bothering me about the video game and I've finally figured out what- F-suke knew about the vase breaking. How? All the girls supposedly agreed not to tell anyone they found the body first and instead left it there, where like a janitor or someone found it later. So how did F-suke know E-ko's alibi was fake because of the broken vase photo? Why did he know she needed an alibi at all? I can only imagine one of the girls told him. Which? And why?
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Aug 5, 2013 17:08
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MonsterEnvy posted:Well 2 days passed so the body would have been found and reported by then. Being the brother he may have been told some info. My point is that the only people who knew about the sound of breaking glass all swore not to tell anyone since they didn't want to get dragged into a murder case. The only people the broken vase had any meaning to are the girls who found the body. The police wouldn't have paid any attention to a broken vase in a different room. And I kind of doubt the SHSL Gangster would be too cooperative with the police anyway. For Kuzuryuu to make some leap of logic about the broken vase photo, one of the girls had to have told him what really happened that day. It doesn't seem likely Satou (who he sounded only vaguely familiar with), or Mahiru (who seemed like she was going to help hide things for Satou's sake) would have done it. So either Mikan, Saionji, or Ibuki went to him and told him about what they saw, and that's why he was able to figure out what the meaning of the broken vase was. Mikan was the main character of the game, sort of, and is too timid, so I don't really think it was her. Ibuki seems too scatterbrained to think of such a thing...
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Aug 5, 2013 20:06
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It doesn't help any that the two people with the testimony that might blow the whole case wide open are both lying through their teeth and/or playing dumb... Peko's targeting of Saionji may or may not have the best of intentions, but here's some food for thought: If Peko and Kuzuryuu made an agreement to conspire on the murder either before it took place, or even afterwards if Kuzu walked in on Peko killing Mahiru, why the elaborate job of framing Saionji? Since Kuzuryuu is going to die anyway (unless he plans to double cross her, but then why not make her easier to implicate? And why play along with framing Saionji?), he could just take the fall and confess, and say any other clues lying around were planted by him to toss everyone off the scent but hey, you got me, good job. Also, even if they had an agreement, why would Peko try and divert suspicion from Kuzu in the first place? If she was the killer it literally doesn't matter who gets found guilty as long as it isn't her. And as long as she doesn't say anything stupid, the odds of anyone pinning the crime on her are virtually nil. There is one piece of very circumstantial evidence, and literally anyone who had their swimsuit on (or claimed to be wearing one under their clothes) could have rinsed off and just dried in the sun or even used a towel. Basically, there isn't any particular reason for Peko to try and pin the blame on Saionji if Peko was the killer. Anyone would do and Kuzuryuu makes for the perfect fall guy whether he agreed to the role or not. Peko doesn't even need to say much since Kuzuryuu is busily digging his own grave. But she's trying to cast suspicion on Saionji. This seems to me more like the honest suspicion of someone trying to solve the crime rather than someone trying to avoid blame and pin it on someone else. Just keep in mind that it's in the killer's best interests to keep the trial as short as possible. The longer it goes on the more truths come to light and the greater the chance of Kuzuryuu wiggling off the hook. A good frame job should be, like any con, just Zip Zip Zip. You have a suspect with motive, opportunity, is lying to everyone about his alibis, and killed someone in the arcade game in the same manner as Mahiru. Explain any odd evidence (mask, water bottles) as an attempt to toss everyone off the scent, and get the vote going before Hinata or Nanami can get their thoughts together. Don't give people any time to think, just keep the trial rolling. Back to Saionji for a second, did anyone else notice she described the person in the mask as 'that guy' in one case? Slip of the tongue or did she actually use a gender neutral pronoun and Oren just interpreted it as 'that guy' instead of 'that person'? I mean, we know she was in the beach house since the time of the murder... it's harder to believe that she didn't see the killer than she did. So I'd assume she knew the killer's gender. Possibly their identity. But for some reason she doesn't want to talk. Why?
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Aug 15, 2013 22:08
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kidcoelacanth posted:b) gives her a way out of the window. I think I beat the ground pretty flat about this same topic before, but no matter who helped who get out the window, at least one accomplice in the crime is left inside the beach house with the body blocking the door. And the only footprints leading out are Saionji's, and Saionji is way too small to be boosting anyone out a window. Mahiru is blocking the tunnel side door, leaving only the window and beach side door as possible exits. And any way you break it down, for the killer to have left the beach house required an accomplice, unless it was Saionji, since only her footprints were left behind. Any accomplice is trapped by this dilemma as well, unless Sainoji is the accomplice. Mahiru's body is blocking the door so the killer can't have left that way. Saionji could have moved the body a little after the killer left though. In fact, it seems like she's the only person who could have, unless we doubt Akane's judgment that getting out the window alone was impossible.
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Aug 16, 2013 05:24
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lambj3 posted:People mentioning Peko's shinai got me thinking. What if she tied something to the shinai and used it almost as a grappling hook? I think people are confusing shinai with boken. A shinai's 'blade' is a bundle of four or so long narrow bamboo slats (tournament ones use four I believe but they do occasionally appear with slightly different configurations). The purpose of this is to simulate some of the heft and balance of an actual sword, without creating as much real danger for kendo practitioners. Shinai are made to be flexible (the name shinai is literally based off the verb 'to flex', thanks wikipedia!), so that they bend on striking or split on thrusting, and are not particularly strong, at least not so strong you could use one as described. Probably. A boken, on the other hand, is a literal wooden sword, and used to be used for kendo until the shinai replaced it. While not sharp, it's solid, has some significant weight to it, and can cause serious injury, which is why the shinai replaced it in kendo. One of the tools of choice for stereotypical Japanese street toughs, as it's one of the most dangerous things you can carry openly there without violating the law. Essentially, I highly doubt Peko could rappel up the wall using a shinai as a grappling hook. It would bend or break as it was designed to under high stress. Of course, we don't actually know what's in her carrying case. Or if the case itself could have served that purpose.
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Aug 17, 2013 15:24
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LukanFox posted:Though given that Peko's raising the different entrances theory and Peko is my most likely suspect at the moment, it could be the case that she's deliberately misdirecting the rest and no-one has thought to contradict her (yet). I don't really like meta-gaming but... it's so early in the trial right now that the fact that Peko is already playing her hand could be construed to mean she isn't guilty at all (if her theories got tossed back in her face right now it'd be a pretty drat short trial). Personally I've been wondering about Saionji... Hinata saw her running from the beach house at 3:30, and was at the diner starting from 3:00. So she was there earlier, probably from at least 2:30 if not earlier, depending on who wrote the notes and why. So, why did she only flee at 3:30? We've got evidence that she was in the closet (and no, that evidence wasn't frigging planted as some people tried to claim since it was a different flavor gummy or whatever. There's no reason to plant evidence when we knew she was there in the first place). I speculated in the past that she was unconscious while Mahiru was being killed, and pondered who could have knocked her out and how. A fairly obvious answer has been staring me in the face the whole time however- Mikan, who just got access to an entire pharmacy full of suspicious drugs. We've assumed that if she killed anyone it'd be by poison, but really, that's too obvious. If anyone died to poison suspicion would fall on her instantly. Instead, she drugged the witness (Saionji) somehow, maybe with a rag soaked in ether, or maybe the water bottles were drugged (which is why she dumped them afterwards), and while Mahiru was distracted, beat her head in. She had all day to plant the note as well while she was examining the body.
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Aug 18, 2013 23:06
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| # ¿ Apr 24, 2024 00:34 |
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I've thought about this case long and hard in my free time since it began. I'm probably overthinking things, but a few thoughts to chew on:
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Aug 20, 2013 16:35
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